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[Xellith]

Course the kid lied.

"We harvest advanced civilisations. Leaving the younger ones alone. Cept the protheans. We just mercilessly slaughtered them until extinction. We didnt harvest them since they were incompatable with our reaping process. We turned them into husks though. But their knowledge and essence was not stored in reaper form. Oh dont forget the Harvesters... they dont technically count as a civilisation so we just kidnapped a few and repurposed them. Oh and the Rachni you eradicated - we genetically engineered them back into existence in order to create powerful troops and then later we will wipe them out".

ME3 hurts me brain.

[sdinc009]

Xellith wrote...

Course the kid lied.

"We harvest advanced civilisations. Leaving the younger ones alone. Cept the protheans. We just mercilessly slaughtered them until extinction. We didnt harvest them since they were incompatable with our reaping process. We turned them into husks though. But their knowledge and essence was not stored in reaper form. Oh dont forget the Harvesters... they dont technically count as a civilisation so we just kidnapped a few and repurposed them. Oh and the Rachni you eradicated - we genetically engineered them back into existence in order to create powerful troops and then later we will wipe them out".

ME3 hurts me brain.

Right. Guess they forgot about this little dialogue from ME 2 when speaking to Harbinger:


[*]If Garrus is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Turian, you are considered too... primitive"
[*]If Grunt is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Krogan, sterilized race, potential wasted"
[*]If Samara is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Asari, reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness" (which is ironic considering that the Reapers require genetic material from an organic race to construct the Human-Reaper)
[*]If Mordin is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Salarian, life span too short, genetic code too fragile"
[*]If Thane is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Drell, useless... insufficient numbers"
[*]If Tali is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Quarian, considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weak immune system too debilitating"
[*]If Jack is in the squad while Harbinger is controlling a Collector it will state "Human, viable possibility .... impressive biotic potential."
[*]
Miranda - "Human, viable possibility... impressive genetic malleability."

Zaeed - "Human, viable possibility. Aggression factor useful if controlled."
Jacob - "Human, viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated."
Kasumi (my guess since nobody else fits) - "Human, viable possibility... impressive technical potential."
He also has this to say about Legion:
"Geth, an annoyance... limited utility."

[Kel Riever]

ME3 hurts me brain.

It hurts my brain too, but only when I try to think the ending(s) have any merit.

My brain stops hurting the moment I realize it is all just atrocious nonsense and simply bad work.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 04 octobre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Mikk016]

M.C.Tales wrote...

Mikk016 wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

That explanation has always irked me. Using "artistic integrity" as a crutch to defend poor storytelling is weak argumentation.

Me too. "Artistic integrity" is the worst explanation, justification, answer or whatever the hell it actually means, to anything. I lost my faith in ME and the company when they don't even have the cojones to just say: "hey, we made a mistake."

The invocation of "artistic integrity/vision" also falls flat when the ending plagiarizes the ending of another work (in ME 3's case, it's ripping off the ending to the first Deus Ex game).

For me it fell flat when the ending doesn't reflect what the devs talked about prior to the release and that nothing makes sense and the whole story just crumbles beneath a mountain of inconsistencies and new story elements that contradicts the rules of the universe where Mass Effect takes place.

[Ithurael]

OT: You know what really may suck for Bioware now is that the lead writer for the old republic just left.

[Kel Riever]

Ithurael wrote...

OT: You know what really may suck for Bioware now is that the lead writer for the old republic just left.

I read up on that.  You know, I think writers quickly forget (like many employees) that they are expendable.  Good writers seem to remember that and never rest on their laurels.  It is true for most industries, but it is particularly evident in a field with the brutality of the entertainment industry and next to no recognition of putting a face with the words.

Almost the opposite situation with film or tv celebrities.  And that's for movie writers.  Video game writers?  Mostly not even close to that scale.  And that's obviously evident in ME3's ending flop.

[CaIIisto]

Perhaps they could move Casey and Mac across to TOR and put the rest of us out of our misery.

[nopantsisabela]

Kel Riever wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

OT: You know what really may suck for Bioware now is that the lead writer for the old republic just left.

I read up on that.  You know, I think writers quickly forget (like many employees) that they are expendable.  Good writers seem to remember that and never rest on their laurels.  It is true for most industries, but it is particularly evident in a field with the brutality of the entertainment industry and next to no recognition of putting a face with the words.

Almost the opposite situation with film or tv celebrities.  And that's for movie writers.  Video game writers?  Mostly not even close to that scale.  And that's obviously evident in ME3's ending flop.

It's even more depressing if you saw this, and realized that while writers are leaving, Casey Hudson is still in charge of all future ME projects. I'm not saying I wanted him to lose his job or anything, but I'm a little surprised that he's still the executive producer. 

Modifié par nopantsisabela, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:52 .

[Xellith]

They have to keep him as executive producer in order to be able to say "NUH UH! THE ENDINGS ARE GOOD! YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND IT!"

edit:

In other news - the collectors survived the ME2 base attack.  So what was the point of ME2 again?  Stop them from targetting earth so that the reapers could come down a few months later and target earth anyway?  /sigh

Modifié par Xellith, 04 octobre 2012 - 07:09 .

[Joykilledme]

Wow.... after reading Chris Priestley's replies to this thread.... I think I'm going to further distance myself from these egotistical cocky so called artist game developers. I got news for you Bioware.... your selling a damn product... art or not... we are the consumers. Without us.. your "art" *cough cough product * is nothing... I'd consider doing what the topic title suggests.

We won't support your egos forever.

[Iakus]

Xellith wrote...

"Do right by the fans" they said. "Keep your save files" they said.Damn Boshtets.

I kept my save files.

My ME2 files.  On the off chance that the ME3 endings ever become tolerable.

[CaIIisto]

My save files went up in smoke with my last Xbox.

70 hours to get my ME1>ME2 saves back again? No thanks.

[Dilos01]

I should of seen this coming a mile away. Of course they'd release the Collector MP DLC (for free might I add); everybody wanted to see them come back! And what better way to reintroduce a dead race, that we all thought was defeated in ME2, then through this MP DLC? This just goes to show which audience Bioware favors the most. So I must ask this question: what was the point of ME2 again?

[3DandBeyond]

Dilos01 wrote...

I should of seen this coming a mile away. Of course they'd release the Collector MP DLC (for free might I add); everybody wanted to see them come back! And what better way to reintroduce a dead race, that we all thought was defeated in ME2, then through this MP DLC? This just goes to show which audience Bioware favors the most. So I must ask this question: what was the point of ME2 again?

Well, I still think they are planning on Omega SP DLC but it's sort of sad that the trailer for the MP looks better than it really seemed that Leviathan played.  It may be just me, but I've been far more impressed with trailers than the actual game, but the reverse was true for ME1 and 2.

I've actually seen people very critical saying that ME2 was not explained well and they blame ME2 for not explaining what it all meant.  I don't believe they understand storytelling.  ME3 should have explored and explained all of the things that were left dangling in ME1 and 2.  The keepers and why everyone just trusted the citadel and didn't try to get into the core area.  Should have been explained in ME3.  I was far more curious about this and there was far more interest in knowing where the keepers came from and all in the game than where the reapers came from.  ME2 introduced the collectors as a sort of vanguard once Sovereign was killed.  That made sense to me, but they needed to explain in ME3 what the collectors were looking for and as was posted before, what all those comments from Harbinger meant.  What were they looking for with humans and why?  Why did they need Shepard's body, alive or dead?  I can only assume the collectors were getting the body for the reapers and yet the collectors are the indoctrinated Protheans who wanted to control the reapers.  But it seems like they wanted the body for synthesis which would sort of fit-if they had said that and if they had tied up those loose ends before the game ended.

The only thing is the collectors also started the Omega plague which didn't affect Humans-again, it seems like they were testing it so that it would kill any non-human (except Vorcha), so they could keep Humans.  If it worked well, it seems like the plan was to release it all over the galaxy.  The Vorcha may not have been advanced enough to be of concern.

But the point is ME3 should have tied up the loose ends of the other games.

[CaIIisto]

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the point is ME3 should have tied up the loose ends of the other games.

If we're getting into the realms of "What ME3 should have done but didn't", then we'll be here until Christmas.....

[Dilos01]

3DandBeyond wrote...

It may be just me, but I've been far more impressed with trailers than the actual game, but the reverse was true for ME1 and 2.

Trust me when I say this: you're not the only one who thinks like that.  Hell, I find the music they used in some of those trailers MORE interesting than the game itself!   

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the point is ME3 should have tied up the loose ends of the other games.

No argument here.  At least they did somethings right, like the resolutions to the genophage and the Geth/Quarian plot.  Too bad about the rest of the story.

[3DandBeyond]

Bester76 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the point is ME3 should have tied up the loose ends of the other games.

If we're getting into the realms of "What ME3 should have done but didn't", then we'll be here until Christmas.....

Oh I agree.  It just frosts me when someone blames ME1 or ME2 for not answering some questions, when the blame is always on the final story in a series.

I know there's a lot more but I always found it funny when people said they hated ME2 for such things.  And now ME3 is just so perfect.

Except what's also funny is that many of those that say that stuff also will say the endings aren't perfect, are well implemented, or they even have tag lines that say they support a new Earth content-to have it totally changed.  And these are some of the pro-enders.  I frankly would want better support than this.

I've seen this all over the place.  There's a person who's the biggest supporter of synthesis-and that person says the endings weren't done well, but they were good.  What does that mean?  It's one or the other and not both.  There's a person who regularly comes here to antagonize people and this person now supports having Earth re-done completely.  Ok, what?  That person couldn't stand to see the endings changed because it would ruin the writer's story.  Please, make sense of that because I can't.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Looking back at the previous games. ME1 was done right. ME2 in all was done very well, but in retrospect I think should have had a more vanilla ending. What I'm saying is no suicide mission. I remember thinking when I thought about it in context with a trilogy "there's no way this isn't going to come back and bite them in the ass."

Too many variables in that game. And the narrative director left afterward and wasn't replaced. If they did a vanilla ending in ME2, and did the suicide mission at the end of ME3, they could have had their 16 different endings.

[shepskisaac]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

 they could have had their 16 different endings.

People still repeat this? Bioware never promised 16 'widely different endings', it was IGN. Bioware =/= IGN

[BearlyHere]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Looking back at the previous games. ME1 was done right. ME2 in all was done very well, but in retrospect I think should have had a more vanilla ending. What I'm saying is no suicide mission. I remember thinking when I thought about it in context with a trilogy "there's no way this isn't going to come back and bite them in the ass."

Too many variables in that game. And the narrative director left afterward and wasn't replaced. If they did a vanilla ending in ME2, and did the suicide mission at the end of ME3, they could have had their 16 different endings.

The thing about the suicide mission in ME2 was that if Shep didn't make it, or if you lost squadmates like I did the first time, it was possible to reload and replay for the win. The biggest problem with ME3 is there's no reload, no win. It's Shepard's dead, game over, buy DLC! All because we have a couple of "artists' who didn't realize they were making a video game. They still can't understand that people play games to WIN! Or at least to be left feeling like the death was worth it, and not just because it fit the narrative.

[CaIIisto]

BearlyHere wrote...
They still can't understand that people play games to WIN! Or at least to be left feeling like the death was worth it, and not just because it fit the narrative.

These guys probably play Madden and lose on purpose....

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Bester76 wrote...

BearlyHere wrote...
They still can't understand that people play games to WIN! Or at least to be left feeling like the death was worth it, and not just because it fit the narrative.

These guys probably play Madden and lose on purpose....

Yeah they probably do.

[CaIIisto]

Still, you've got to admire BW's optimism.

They continue to work on MP DLC, even though Halo and CoD will drop inside a month and make ME MP completely redundant....

Modifié par Bester76, 05 octobre 2012 - 12:48 .

[Xellith]

I dont see the appeal of ME3 MP. Without more modes (hell throw in some "N7 missions" where its actually STORY CONTENT done from the aspect of a 4 man squad) in MP which would allow for SP weapon unlocks then I really dont see ME3 MP going anywhere cept down in popularity.

I mean sure adding the collectors is good and all but its not exactly game changing stuff thats going to retain a significant number of people.

The maps are more or less elaborate circles too which is hardly enthralling.

Modifié par Xellith, 05 octobre 2012 - 02:05 .

[AresKeith]

Xellith wrote...

I dont see the appeal of ME3 MP. Without more modes (hell throw in some "N7 missions" where its actually STORY CONTENT done from the aspect of a 4 man squad) in MP which would allow for SP weapon unlocks then I really dont see ME3 MP going anywhere cept down in popularity.

I mean sure adding the collectors is good and all but its not exactly game changing stuff thats going to retain a significant number of people.

The maps are more or less elaborate circles too which is hardly enthralling.

That's what I put in my MP DLC idea, I made new game modes that are story-based