6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Unschuld]

It is what it is, yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that thus far it's been handled extremely poorly despite the efforts of the Bioware team to do fantastic things in other areas. All the inconsistencies...

[Iakus]

inversevideo wrote...

Chris is not messing with anyone. I believe he is simply sharing the current corporate direction with respect to that scene and Shepard. BW has stated that this is Shepard's final appearance. No changes to the ending.
It seems like BW is also not planning a resolution to the 'breathe' scene, it is apparently whatever you make of it. I take away from that, there will be no more Shepard appearances, in any DLC or story that thematically continues past the ending.

I think it stinks, to leave Shepard in rubble, but I do not see it changing.

The best I can hope for is that BW will listen to the feedback, everyone has provided, and use it when constructing the next story arc, or even stories in the DA series.

If that's true, I'm never buying any Mass Effect products of any kind again.  And I doubt I'm alone in that.

A breath scene like that is a setup for a sequel.  "The monster's dead.  Or is it?"  Leaving that as the conclusion is at best uncreative.  At worst, outright cruel to the fans.  If the writers, directors, developers, or whatever are truly content with leaving Shepard's fate like that, then I no longer have any confidence in their ability to tell a story I want to hear.  

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Xellith wrote...

They have already chosen synthesis as the canon ending.

ME3 with destroy ending - a few years later synthesis was attained anyhow. Now you have reaper corpses (maybe) lying around in the background and possible some destroyed reapers just lying around. No geth npcs. Oh and everyone is green.

ME3 with control ending - a few years later synthesis was attained anyhow. Now you have reapers walking around people walking around, geth are still around and everyone is green.

ME3 with synthesis ending - synthesis was attained. Now you have reapers walking around people walking around, geth are still around and everyone is green.

If DA3 goes the way of ME3 and they do this with ME4, Bioware goes the way of Maxis. This is a very very bad idea. Honestly, I don't think they'd risk it.

I've got a very good idea of what to do, and I know they won't do it, but suffice it to say that if one does believe in the multiverse they did.

[darthoptimus003]

darthoptimus003 wrote...

sad part is that the 3 things that would fix all of this and people would pay for they wont do because it goes agianst there crap art
sucsessful refusal
destroy(high tms) destroy reapers only
reunion scene with shep and party
this would fix alot of the problems
right now we cant win the game without suicide,suicide,suicide&genocide
i dont know bout yall but i dont play games just to lose, i play to win
i sure as hell dont want to feel depressed after i finish a game.
i want happy. if i want depression id stay in the real world

[CaIIisto]

iakus wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Chris is not messing with anyone. I believe he is simply sharing the current corporate direction with respect to that scene and Shepard. BW has stated that this is Shepard's final appearance. No changes to the ending.
It seems like BW is also not planning a resolution to the 'breathe' scene, it is apparently whatever you make of it. I take away from that, there will be no more Shepard appearances, in any DLC or story that thematically continues past the ending.

I think it stinks, to leave Shepard in rubble, but I do not see it changing.

The best I can hope for is that BW will listen to the feedback, everyone has provided, and use it when constructing the next story arc, or even stories in the DA series.

If that's true, I'm never buying any Mass Effect products of any kind again.  And I doubt I'm alone in that.

A breath scene like that is a setup for a sequel.  "The monster's dead.  Or is it?"  Leaving that as the conclusion is at best uncreative.  At worst, outright cruel to the fans.  If the writers, directors, developers, or whatever are truly content with leaving Shepard's fate like that, then I no longer have any confidence in their ability to tell a story I want to hear.  

Have to agree, although I fear that this is indeed BW's stance. 

As much as I love the universe that they've created with ME, not resolving Shepard's storyline is unforgivable to me. Going down the destroy route I expect Shepard to either go down in a blaze of glory, sacrificing himself for the greater good, or I expect him to defy the odds, and find 'another way' to defeat the Reapers. Instead, I feel robbed of either of those resolutions. In fact we're left with no resolution at all. Is Shepard alive or dead? Don't tell me to figure it out for myself, that's not why I've spent over £100, and played hundreds of hours on the games. When I go to work tomorrow I'll have to remember to finish a couple of hours early. If anyone asks then I'll tell them just to headcanon me actually being there. Hopefully things will turn out well.

More pertinantly - give it a couple of years, when ME4 is released. I'll be going into a shop, and.....well if you want to imagine me buying the game, you go right ahead......

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

inversevideo wrote...

Chris is not messing with anyone. I believe he is simply sharing the current corporate direction with respect to that scene and Shepard. BW has stated that this is Shepard's final appearance. No changes to the ending.
It seems like BW is also not planning a resolution to the 'breathe' scene, it is apparently whatever you make of it. I take away from that, there will be no more Shepard appearances, in any DLC or story that thematically continues past the ending.

I think it stinks, to leave Shepard in rubble, but I do not see it changing.

The best I can hope for is that BW will listen to the feedback, everyone has provided, and use it when constructing the next story arc, or even stories in the DA series.

I'm thinking this was Shepard's last appearance as a player character in ME. From a story narrative point with the breath scene and the LI holding the name on the high EMS ending if they don't resolve that in the next game it is a double knife twist. I'm done with BW until it is resolved. It needs to be resolved somehow, some way. They can do this, and it does involve setting a canon ending. Sorry. I think they need to set this as the canon for the series. If I were writing the series, this would be my canon, and it would ****** off a number of people. It has to be resolved, and don't tell me to resolve it in my head.

You do realize a writer taking any of the other endings can destroy anyone's "head canon" just as easily. So don't get attached to your head canons.

[Asch Lavigne]

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 05 octobre 2012 - 07:07 .

[N7 Lisbeth]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

The begining is fine, the ending is horribly broken. Your reasoning, it is illogical.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

The beginning is another issue. I wouldn't know where to begin other than a rewrite. That's not going to happen either. It needed to focus more on story and what exactly was happening rather than learning game mechanics. ME2 did it perfectly.

I was complaining about the journal from day one before I finished the game. That's not going to get fixed either. That is a huge negative with the game for me. And the codex in this game isn't that helpful.

[CaIIisto]

Beginning and the ending are terrible, the ending moreso though, even after the EC.

I forgave the start at first because they had the rest of the game to pull things around. When they got to the end and cr*pped the bed, well, they had nowhere left to go, and no time to do it in.

[timedagar]

I agree and share the opinion of the OP, with one exception.

I beleive it is NOT futile to continue to petiion Bioware/EA for more change. In Life, in our universe of infinite diversity in infinite combinations, there is nothing that is impossible. To state it is impossible, is to admit you either dont want to and or dont know how. Bioware knows How, and they dont want to......right now. Human beings have the capacity for change given the right motivation for said change.

At Present Bioware EA is focust on releaseing their scheduled content. Even Omega DLC as an example is not a respons to fans, but pre planned. That is evident by on disc content. That doesnt reflect a "dynamic consumer developer relationship" despite how some may perceive it as such. The EC however, Did......to a point. It served only to re-enforce thier stance, through clarity, but it is not an active engagment or response to the vast outcry of the consumers who support them. Rather it is a passive one intended to gain more support by elaborating on confusing points, without shifting their postion on the message (which is really what we, the petitioners of change are rejecting)

To beleive that a petition for change is futile is to align oneself with the opinions expressed by ME3's ending which we want changed, that is an opinion based in Nihlism, life without purpose or hope.

And that is a pathetic, sorry state for a Human being to resign themselves to. its a dibilitating concept, and our race would NEVER have come as far as it has if it as a whole adopted such a disgusting policy.

Modifié par timedagar, 05 octobre 2012 - 07:34 .

[AresKeith]

Bester76 wrote...

Beginning and the ending are terrible, the ending moreso though, even after the EC.

I forgave the start at first because they had the rest of the game to pull things around. When they got to the end and cr*pped the bed, well, they had nowhere left to go, and no time to do it in.

I would have very much preferred the original Trial scene

[BearlyHere]

magnetite wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...
It's gotten bad enough that when Mac&Co try to force Synthesis as canon, everyone screams no way, not interested in your ME4 anymore.

Why do people have to rely on Bioware for a "canon" ending? Why not decide for yourself? Issue with canon endings for me is that everyone just picks what the developers think is the right choice. If that were the case, every single playthrough would end up the same more or less.

Mass Effect is about picking different choices and ultimately every story plays out differently. Kind of like that "fork in the road" thing. Unlike these "canon" storylines which more or less follow a singular path more or less.

Because unless they do a prequel, they're going to have to choose one of the endings for their ME4 story. I started with ME2, which I hadn't picked up because I assumed it was a shooter, until I was assured it was an RPG. The background you are given if you start a new character without an import, such as Shep not saving the council, or not putting Anderson on the council, tell me that Bioware considers the renegade choices canon. I noticed the same thing when I lost my HD and had to start DA 2 without an import. Having played DA:O, I was annoyed because none of my Wardens did anything they consider canon.

Maybe another problem is that many of the players run towards paragon, while the creators at Bioware run renegade.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AresKeith wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Beginning and the ending are terrible, the ending moreso though, even after the EC.

I forgave the start at first because they had the rest of the game to pull things around. When they got to the end and cr*pped the bed, well, they had nowhere left to go, and no time to do it in.

I would have very much preferred the original Trial scene

You do know it would not have been done well. How would you role play Shepard when you're sitting in a chair being represented by counsel and keeping your mouth shut like a good client should?

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Beginning and the ending are terrible, the ending moreso though, even after the EC.

I forgave the start at first because they had the rest of the game to pull things around. When they got to the end and cr*pped the bed, well, they had nowhere left to go, and no time to do it in.

I would have very much preferred the original Trial scene

You do know it would not have been done well. How would you role play Shepard when you're sitting in a chair being represented by counsel and keeping your mouth shut like a good client should?

It probably would have been like the start of ME2 when Miranda and Jacob started asking questions about what you did in ME1. Since it was the bridge between ME2, Arrival, and into ME3, then the Reapers attacked

[inversevideo]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Chris is not messing with anyone. I believe he is simply sharing the current corporate direction with respect to that scene and Shepard. BW has stated that this is Shepard's final appearance. No changes to the ending.
It seems like BW is also not planning a resolution to the 'breathe' scene, it is apparently whatever you make of it. I take away from that, there will be no more Shepard appearances, in any DLC or story that thematically continues past the ending.

I think it stinks, to leave Shepard in rubble, but I do not see it changing.

The best I can hope for is that BW will listen to the feedback, everyone has provided, and use it when constructing the next story arc, or even stories in the DA series.

I'm thinking this was Shepard's last appearance as a player character in ME. From a story narrative point with the breath scene and the LI holding the name on the high EMS ending if they don't resolve that in the next game it is a double knife twist. I'm done with BW until it is resolved. It needs to be resolved somehow, some way. They can do this, and it does involve setting a canon ending. Sorry. I think they need to set this as the canon for the series. If I were writing the series, this would be my canon, and it would ****** off a number of people. It has to be resolved, and don't tell me to resolve it in my head.

You do realize a writer taking any of the other endings can destroy anyone's "head canon" just as easily. So don't get attached to your head canons.

Bioware can 'fix' the 'breathe' ending, but I think, for the moment, they have drawn a line in the sand.

However, they do need to set a 'canon' ending to the story.  I like your idea of exploring the multiverse, but I don't think BW will go for that. Lots of writing and it might confuse some people?

BW does need to set a canon ending though. Unless they do use the multiverse idea, it is not possible for them to move forward with the universe fractured into 3 separate timelines.

[inversevideo]

AresKeith wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

Beginning and the ending are terrible, the ending moreso though, even after the EC.

I forgave the start at first because they had the rest of the game to pull things around. When they got to the end and cr*pped the bed, well, they had nowhere left to go, and no time to do it in.

I would have very much preferred the original Trial scene

You do know it would not have been done well. How would you role play Shepard when you're sitting in a chair being represented by counsel and keeping your mouth shut like a good client should?

It probably would have been like the start of ME2 when Miranda and Jacob started asking questions about what you did in ME1. Since it was the bridge between ME2, Arrival, and into ME3, then the Reapers attacked

I have a feeling the trial was scrapped because BW was not certain how to do it.
And to be honest, I don't have an issue with there being no trial. If it could not be done well, then best not to do it.

I'm more concerned that the endings are in the state they are in.  But BW has no incentive to fix them right now.
Those who are more into TPS games are happy with the endings and do not want them changed right?

As long as there are lots of folks who are happy with what is, then BW is unlikley to spend money on those folks who are unhappy with what is not.  The message is to 'move on'.

I'm not a kid.  I am one of those 'older players', and my kind is more into good story and character interaction/development, and is put off when the story does not quite make sense.  

I don't think I represent BW target audience.  Who is apparently happy with things as they are.

[Xellith]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

The begining is fine, the ending is horribly broken. Your reasoning, it is illogical.

No.  The start is terrible too. 

Okay.  You start.  You see shepard.  All looks okay.  He is perving on a kid.  Some random strong guy shows up.  Apparantly I know him.  I dont recall seeing him before.  Wait.. Apparantly Im on friendly terms with him.

Okay some comittee want to see me.. okay... Hey its anderson!  Nice chat Anderson.  Hey who is that chick.  Lolbarbie.. wait.. ASHLEY?!?!  Okay.. wth she done but Ill let that go.. the comittee needs me for something... 

"this isnt about strategy or tactics, this is about survival",  "we fight or we die".  HOLD THE PHONE!  Doesnt survival/staying alive usually involve strategy and tactics? 

OH NOES TEH REAPERS.  Figured they would crash this party.. okay Anderson made it!... wait.. sure give me your gun.. Im sure you need it too but w/e... Oh hey that kid somehow didnt die.. I shall name thee Ventboy.  Now take my hand and lets gtfo.  What do you mean I cant help you?  screw you then kid.  Go die.  Anderson lets go.

Those reaper graphics look neat... wait... are those suppost to be people running down there?  Jesus they look like cardboard cutouts.  Looks like the kinda thing Id expect from that black sherif in blazing saddles.  But w/e I suppose its not that important.

Omg that cruiser is getting shot at... if I stand here that cruiser can just never die lol.. oh crap it exploded when I got near!  weeeeeee omg fun slide thing.  Bet that gave a few scratches.  Better go help those two guys at the dock since Im here.

AH REAPER PEOPLE THINGS BATARIAN REAPERS!  HOLD THE LINE ANDERSON!

OMG its my ship!  Normandy ftw!

Wait.. anderson is staying? Why is everyone so overly protective about earth?  I mean Sure its under attack but I dont see the point in getting reinforcements specifically to defend earth.  I mean if I was told "Shepard you need to stop the reapers.  Find a way how.  Anything you can.  They have to be stopped - no matter the cost.  This is bigger than just earth.  Good luck" or something.. but no.. I need to find help to save the earth.. a planet that if I save would just be pwned by reapers when they got reinforcements.. good plan.

Oh hey james wants me to let him off the ship?  Cool.  Wait.. I cant?  Bioware you c*ck teases..  Hackett says "get your ass to mars" does he? okay!  I figure Im gonna find some prothean superweapon

etc etc etc

Modifié par Xellith, 05 octobre 2012 - 08:45 .

[CaIIisto]

Yes, the start is terrible.....but the ending(s) make it look like a masterpiece.

[N7 Lisbeth]

Xellith wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

The begining is fine, the ending is horribly broken. Your reasoning, it is illogical.

No.  The start is terrible too. 

Okay.  You start.  You see shepard.  All looks okay.  He is perving on a kid.  Some random strong guy shows up.  Apparantly I know him.  I dont recall seeing him before.  Wait.. Apparantly Im on friendly terms with him.

How are you perving on a kid? Are you serious? You have issues. Serious, serious issues. Look, the Catalyst has absolutely nothing to do with that kid in the beginning. Get over it. (Note: I hate the endings and the Catalyst. But I don't irrationally blame its form and by extention anyone under 13 years of age.)

And how is it a stretch of any imagination that you know another soldier's name? You've been under house arrest there for six months pending military trial. At the start of ME1 and ME2, there are lots of new people you don't know, but you know their names (Anderson, Hackett, Nilus, Joker, Kaidan, Dr. Chakwas, so many others) and some of them your character well acquainted with.

Look, I dislike Freddie Prince Jr more than the next person, but you're being irrational.

Okay some comittee want to see me.. okay... Hey its anderson!  Nice chat Anderson.  Hey who is that chick.  Lolbarbie.. wait.. ASHLEY?!?!  Okay.. wth she done but Ill let that go.. the comittee needs me for something... 

Yes, they hussy'd her up. It's a gripe of mine, but she's like that the entire way through the game, it has nothing to do with the beginning. It was also good timing to reintroduce her rather than surprise us with it later.

"this isnt about strategy or tactics, this is about survival",  "we fight or we die".  HOLD THE PHONE!  Doesnt survival/staying alive usually involve strategy and tactics? 

Not if you haven't convinced them to actually fight. They've been spending years trying to bury the whole story, ignoring the threat, for many reasons that were described at length throughout all three games (if you were paying attention).

The opening sequence for the game plays out well, both narratively and thematically. It invests us in the war, invests us in the action, and catapults us into the fray all the while (despite the low resolution textures) coming across as movie-quality as we've seen in any of the games. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a (slightly) better engine and they're showing off.

Let me restate this in case you missed it: The beginning is fine.

Modifié par N7 Lisbeth, 05 octobre 2012 - 11:35 .

[MegaSovereign]

Unschuld wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Look, I hate to start things up for the sake of it, but this is just.... No. It doesn't make any sense.

There is no differing "interpretation" of the Shepard breath scene. There is NO NARRATIVE REASON for including a scene like that in a book/play/film/movie/story if it just means the character is dead unless the character is SHOWN TO DIE at the end of said scene. Otherwise, it's always meant as a symbol of hope that the hero is still alive. Period. That's the purpose  for this device. To suggest it's otherwise or use it otherwise just makes no sense whatsoever and is at best disengenuous or a complete misuse of the storytelling device.

Then again, this seems to be a growing trend in the ME franchise... Why am I even wasting my breath...

A million times this.

I'm really mad about how Bioware has been handling these questions. The "Last breath" claim is BS just like the IT but they continue to call them valid interpretations for the sake of rage induced speculation.

If it's not showing Shepard alive then there is no narrative point to the breath scene. If Bioware wanted to keep Shepard's fate ambiguous they should have just left the breath scene out entirely.

[Xellith]

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Xellith wrote...

N7 Lisbeth wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

I wish people would let the ending go and ban together to get the lackluster opening fixed, or to maybe finally get an actual patch for the SP., or even get the journal fixed.

The begining is fine, the ending is horribly broken. Your reasoning, it is illogical.

No.  The start is terrible too. 

Okay.  You start.  You see shepard.  All looks okay.  He is perving on a kid.  Some random strong guy shows up.  Apparantly I know him.  I dont recall seeing him before.  Wait.. Apparantly Im on friendly terms with him.

How are you perving on a kid? Are you serious? You have issues. Serious, serious issues. Look, the Catalyst has absolutely nothing to do with that kid in the beginning. Get over it. (Note: I hate the endings and the Catalyst. But I don't irrationally blame its form and by extention anyone under 13 years of age.)

And how is it a stretch of any imagination that you know another soldier's name? You've been under house arrest there for six months pending military trial. At the start of ME1 and ME2, there are lots of new people you don't know, but you know their names (Anderson, Hackett, Nilus, Joker, Kaidan, Dr. Chakwas, so many others) and some of them your character well acquainted with.

Look, I dislike Freddie Prince Jr more than the next person, but you're being irrational.

Okay some comittee want to see me.. okay... Hey its anderson!  Nice chat Anderson.  Hey who is that chick.  Lolbarbie.. wait.. ASHLEY?!?!  Okay.. wth she done but Ill let that go.. the comittee needs me for something... 

Yes, they hussy'd her up. It's a gripe of mine, but she's like that the entire way through the game, it has nothing to do with the beginning. It was also good timing to reintroduce her rather than surprise us with it later.

"this isnt about strategy or tactics, this is about survival",  "we fight or we die".  HOLD THE PHONE!  Doesnt survival/staying alive usually involve strategy and tactics? 

Not if you haven't convinced them to actually fight. They've been spending years trying to bury the whole story, ignoring the threat, for many reasons that were described at length throughout all three games (if you were paying attention).

The opening sequence for the game plays out well, both narratively and thematically. It invests us in the war, invests us in the action, and catapults us into the fray all the while (despite the low resolution textures) coming across as movie-quality as we've seen in any of the games. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a (slightly) better engine and they're showing off.

Let me restate this in case you missed it: The beginning is fine.

Shepard is watching a child through the window... kinda creepy dont you think?  It might just be a cultural word problem between you and I.  But if someone was to be watching children through a window in my town - that person would be considered "pervy".

At the start of ME1 I expect not to know people even though shepard does.  ME2?  Nope. My shepard doesnt know new characters that I do not.  ME3 rolls around and yes its been 6 months - still doesnt mean he should be getting all buddy buddy with people I dont specify. 

I dont give a crap that its freddie prince jr.  I care about my character establishing new friendships and social connections that I have no part in.  As stated ME1 I expect to be thrown some people that I "know" such as joker and anderson etc.  That isnt a problem in ME2 either.  ME3 just expects you to know some random brute soldier guy?  They should have released a "trial dlc" or some dlc that would introduce you to these new characters - or make the intro BETTER.

And you dont quite grasp the point of "we fight or we die, this isnt about strategy or tactics".  Shepard more or less said "we die or we die".  Basically put a few lines in the openning of the game dont make ANY sense logically.  Strategy and tactics are REQUIRED for survival.

Oh and James - it turns out that they DID introduce him to us... but they did it in a COMIC BOOK.  Yeah.  James introduction is a huge gripe of mine - especially when Bioware expect us to buy other materials to know what the hell is going on.

Im glad you see the intro as all sugar and rainbows. If you could see it how it really is you would laugh.

Modifié par Xellith, 06 octobre 2012 - 12:12 .

[Chardonney]

Xellith wrote...

Why is everyone so overly protective about earth?  I mean Sure its under attack but I dont see the point in getting reinforcements specifically to defend earth.  I mean if I was told "Shepard you need to stop the reapers.  Find a way how.  Anything you can.  They have to be stopped - no matter the cost.  This is bigger than just earth.  Good luck" or something.. but no.. I need to find help to save the earth..

This is what bothered me, as well, in the beginning. At that point nobody knew about the crucible yet and still Shep was supposed to get other races to defend earth, even though the Reapers were attacking their worlds, too. What made earth so special compared to the others? It seemed like: Defeat the reapers on earth and - woopee - they're magically defeated elsewhere, too. Of course, then came that darn crucible...

timedagar wrote...

I beleive it is NOT futile to continue
to petiion Bioware/EA for more change. In Life, in our universe of
infinite diversity in infinite combinations, there is nothing that is
impossible. To state it is impossible, is to admit you either dont want
to and or dont know how. Bioware knows How, and they dont want
to......right now. Human beings have the capacity for change given the
right motivation for said change.

   
I agree fully. As they say: It aint over till the fat lady sings.

[3DandBeyond]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

futurepixels wrote...
How can you say that leaving the fate of your hero "up to the individual" is not open-ended and ambigious?

If he lives, he is alive and if he dies he is not. There are 2 interpretations of that breath. Either it is Shepard's first breath after recovering, or it is Shepard's last breath before dying.

Look, I hate to start things up for the sake of it, but this is just.... No. It doesn't make any sense.

There is no differing "interpretation" of the Shepard breath scene. There is NO NARRATIVE REASON for including a scene like that in a book/play/film/movie/story if it just means the character is dead unless the character is SHOWN TO DIE at the end of said scene. Otherwise, it's always meant as a symbol of hope that the hero is still alive. Period. That's the purpose  for this device. To suggest it's otherwise or use it otherwise just makes no sense whatsoever and is at best disengenuous or a complete misuse of the storytelling device.

Then again, this seems to be a growing trend in the ME franchise... Why am I even wasting my breath...

A million times this.

I'm really mad about how Bioware has been handling these questions. The "Last breath" claim is BS just like the IT but they continue to call them valid interpretations for the sake of rage induced speculation.

If it's not showing Shepard alive then there is no narrative point to the breath scene. If Bioware wanted to keep Shepard's fate ambiguous they should have just left the breath scene out entirely.

This is it exactly.  It would have totally pissed me off to see Shepard just die in every ending-but, they showed Shepard die with skin flying off in the other 2 choices.  In the non-choice they made it clear it's insta-death, no passing GO. 

The early tweets prior to the EC said there'd be a reunion and from there it all went downhill and there was a lot of back and forth, and none of it is cute.  It isn't playful.  It isn't fun.  And they keep doing it.  This game they are playing is used to say IT is possible.  No, it isn't.  Yes, it is.  We have ruled it out.  Oh, but it could be.  No, it only exists if you want it to.  Ok, the torso.  A reunion will happen in the EC.  It didn't?  Yes, it did because it was clearly implied.  We didn't know people wanted a reunion.  We couldn't customize a reunion for everyone.  The torso gasp?  That's a beacon of hope.  The torso gasp?  That's Shepard's dying breath.  It's purposely left ambiguous so you can create your own ending.  The endings provide closure. 

The relays.  Post-ME3 the galaxy will be a wasteland.  The Arrival.  Desperate Measures.  The crucible will create a galactic dark ages.  The relay explosions weren't that big.  The galaxy will be fine.  EC announcement: We have no idea why people thought the galaxy would be destroyed at the end of ME3.  We clearly never meant that to happen.

Then we get to synthesis.  There is no canon in ME.  Synthesis will happen.

It's why I can fully believe IGN got their information from someone at BW that Leviathan would change the endings.  People saw that and questioned it and then it was changed.  I can't see why IGN would say that if it was not information they were given.  And it so sounds like all these little games they keep playing.

I looked back at an older interview with Casey Hudson and it does seem from what he said that they do (or at least he does or did) like to take fan suggestions and use them, but they also like to create surprise so they won't use the suggestions exactly as fans state.  I think they have begun to misunderstand "fun" surprise and not fun surprise. 

Fun surprise is thinking no one remembered your birthday and then finding out all your friends are waiting with food and gifts for you.  Not fun surprise is being told your new puppy is waiting for you at home, only to get home and find out he was run over by a car.  Fun surprise is thinking you did bad on a test and finding out you aced it.  Not fun surprise is being told you won the lottery and finding out you didn't.  Fun surprise is being told the hero of 5 years, 100 plus hours of 3 stories and gameplay will probably die and finding out s/he can live.  Not fun surprise is being led to believe (as in the other 2 games) that the ending will feature a surprise where the hero lives and sees his/her friends again, and finding out the hero mostly dies (in 3 out of 4 endings) and in one ending the hero's torso is gasping in a pile of rubble and ambiguity.  Really not fun surprise is being told you could get a best ending (now, not through MP!!!) which implies a new real win and a hero lives and is with friends ending, and then getting a torso gasping in a pile of rubble and ambiguity.  Super not fun surprise is hanging onto that itty bitty piece of torso hope that that torso is alive and then being told it could just as likely be a dying torso.

I think somebody must have stolen their fun surprises when they were children so now they have forgotten what it's like to really enjoy a suprise.

It's not fun and it's not funny.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 06 octobre 2012 - 01:25 .

[Verit]

I think the "it could be his/her last breath" explanation is laughable, but to be honest I'm not really interested in seeing a reunion anyway if the endings stay as they are. I find it odd that people can so easily look past Shepard stabbing his/her friends in the back (I would assume the majority don't think of them as "just machines"). Due to lack of closure, the ending doesn't actually confront you with what you did. How would a reunion between Joker and Shepard play out, for example?

The main problem for me is still that the RGB endings require Shepard to pick one of the choices offered by an insane AI. No amount of "closure" or "clarification" fixes that. In fact it makes it even worse. I just get to hear more of the Catalyst's nonsense and I nothing I say can change its opinion. The one choice where Bioware had Shepard act like him/herself results in the worst possible ending. A destroy ending where Shepard dies instead of the geth and EDI would at least be somewhat acceptable. It would still be stupid, but at least you get the end result that Shepard was looking for. But of course everyone would choose that ending (you know, since it actually fits the story) , so they add a random penalty without thinking about what it actually does to Shepard's character. The current Destroy ending was designed to make the player feel bad for choosing it.