6432 réponses à ce sujet

[BearlyHere]

I don't know if anyone watches Fringe, but I had to shake my head at this article: http://tv.yahoo.com/...-222437899.html

It would have been nice if Bioware thought its players deserved a love letter for Shepard's final act, instead of the pile of clarified crap they gave us.

[3DandBeyond]

-Draikin- wrote...

I think the "it could be his/her last breath" explanation is laughable, but to be honest I'm not really interested in seeing a reunion anyway if the endings stay as they are. I find it odd that people can so easily look past Shepard stabbing his/her friends in the back (I would assume the majority don't think of them as "just machines"). Due to lack of closure, the ending doesn't actually confront you with what you did. How would a reunion between Joker and Shepard play out, for example?

The main problem for me is still that the RGB endings require Shepard to pick one of the choices offered by an insane AI. No amount of "closure" or "clarification" fixes that. In fact it makes it even worse. I just get to hear more of the Catalyst's nonsense and I nothing I say can change its opinion. The one choice where Bioware had Shepard act like him/herself results in the worst possible ending. A destroy ending where Shepard dies instead of the geth and EDI would at least be somewhat acceptable. It would still be stupid, but at least you get the end result that Shepard was looking for. But of course everyone would choose that ending (you know, since it actually fits the story) , so they add a random penalty without thinking about what it actually does to Shepard's character. The current Destroy ending was designed to make the player feel bad for choosing it.

I very much agree with you.  What happens though is that BW keeps shrinking the hopes that people have so it ends up being what is the bare minimum that you might think can at least make it marginally better so it's not a total pile of steaming poop.

I truly loathe the current endings and the choices that they stem from and the kid that they stem from and the conduit scene that all of that stems from.  I dislike major portions of London.  But I start mainly at the conduit.  That's where it seems the kid's story kind of begins and ME3 and ME stop fully.  The game itself physically stops.  You no longer are playing the game.  You're in one of the writers, let's call it a nightmare as opposed to some random body part.  I won't ever pick control or synthesis as any kind of honest choices.  So, they don't exist at all for me-they are pure garbage, discounted by everything Shepard believed in.  I hate that because the voice acting of the people in those endings is great.  I know what refuse does and I think it's the most honest of all "choices", regardless of the outcome. 

Given the choice between death and a future that is uncertain and is potentially damning all you know and love, standing and trying to fight and hoping that some will find a way to live on in some obscure place within the galaxy might be enough given the ambiguous alternatives.  And the ambiguity is not just over the torso-it's the total authenticity of the choices and what they will do-they are unknowns.  Shepard might think before getting to the citadel that the crucible is valid.  But that was before knowing about the kid and the kid changes the crucible's variables.  If the kid did not exist, the crucible would be more believable (still a risk), but with the kid it's credibility collapses.

However, refuse isn't a serious attempt to do the story any kind of justice.  And it was not created for fans.  That leaves destroy-the biggest most painful joke on fans.  Up until the ending destroy was always what everyone thought the crucible would do and it was the goal.  It was also canon.  The cost for it and the weak explanation of it is forced and contrived to make it not be canon.  It's the least final of all endings-it is not an ending at all.

The cost for it is why I can't choose it as some honest choice-I can't kill people, friends, allies, a whole race, just so that destroy is not canon.  It's why I want a complete ending that includes their fate.  A reunion is not the only thing-and that means one reunion scene would make me feel better.  But, it comes down to bare minimums.  In order to see a reunion (if that was all that would change) I'd say it has to happen in destroy since that makes the most sense.  And then what I would have to do is head canon that neither EDI nor the geth died at all.  I did that the last time I played the game anyway because I shut off the game and don't see any ending.  I refuse to choose.  But, believe me I do not at all prefer that this be the way that they do anything, if they do anything.

[3DandBeyond]

BearlyHere wrote...

I don't know if anyone watches Fringe, but I had to shake my head at this article: http://tv.yahoo.com/...-222437899.html

It would have been nice if Bioware thought its players deserved a love letter for Shepard's final act, instead of the pile of clarified crap they gave us.

Wow, another group of people that understand fans, that get it right.  Wonderful.  It boils my blood to think back on the comment one of the devs made about this whole debacle-the one about fans being upset because this was the end of Shepard's story.  They don't get it at all and I don't understand why or how that can be. 

[Benchpress610]

Since BioWare has acknowledged this thread and we are approaching page 250, I thought it would be a good idea to present them with specific numbers of members that have posted here and implicitly or explicitly supported 3D’s plea. I know they are not going to read through 250 pages. Therefore, I decided to save them the work.
 
It has been said that this thread is kept alive by “a few dozen” diehards that keep bump it up, so I wanted to verify that claim. The fact is that most members that have expressed support or sympathy have posted only once or twice. Many times I found a solitary post like: “OP, I support your plea” in a whole page filled with fruitless arguments. So I wanted those voices to be heard.
 
What I did was create a sort of “signature page” listing the “names” of all of those who expressed support in any way. At this point there are 323 supporters.
 
Disclaimers:
1-      As a rule I included those who don’t like the ending.
2-      I didn’t include some who don’t like the ending and explicitly expressed opposition to this plea.
3-      I didn’t include any one with ambivalent opinions
4-      I apologize if I left out any supporter or included someone who doesn’t rather be counted as supporter as I didn’t correctly interpret their intent.
5-      I thoroughly revised the list as not to have duplicated entries, but I might’ve missed a couple.  
 
Dee, you might want to include this in your OP, but I’d understand if you don’t as it is rather long. Your call.
 
Here it is:

3DandBeyond, fil009, comrade_gando, Xellith, Conniving_Eagle, AresKeith, Kel_Riever, EldritchAbomination, Chardonney, a_load_of_stanton, Massa_FX, LadyWench, sharkboy421, Flog61, jules_vern18, 10110001110100, Ithurael, ShepnTali, plfranke, clennon8, MattFini, Had-to-say, avatar0, PuppiesOfDeath2, Warrior_Craess, Benchpress610, Stornskar, Applepie_Svk, Sky651, JPR1964 , iakus, AngryFrozenWater, sH0tgUn_jUliA, davepissedatending, Fiannawolf, Koranis.W, Jade8aby88, inversevideo, ThaDPG, Captain_McBuck, daecath, Darth_Asriel, SkullStrife, FOX216BC, kyban, Argetfalcon, saber00005, Baa_Baa, SpamBot2000, MapleJar, phat0817, Mdoggy1214, Eryri, wh00ley_06, detbasketball13, Fandango9641, Archonsg, Zan51, ziyon_conqueror, element_eater, GodSentinelOmega, mjb203, Moirai, A_Slice_of_Pink, drayfish, XqctaX, Bathaius, liggy002, Dr_Megaverse, Skeem, Astralify, frostajulie, Somejoe01, JSwisha, devSin, Jere85, bigmass41, crimzontearz, OniTYME, KrazyKiko, LiarasShield, thefallen2far, Grand_Admiral_Cheesecake, darthoptimus003, Shinobu, chadesh, Killdren88, KENNY4753, xIIReFLeXlIx, I_eat_unicorns, elitehunter34, schwarzaj, mrcanada, RenegonSQ, TheConstantOne, zambot, Daryslash, tyrvas, VettoRyouzou, Calamity, Gtacatalina, MaxGwenesef, ZeCollectorDestroya, 2Shepards, GhostShadow115, alleyd, Emphyr, cynicalandbored, Snake91, StElmo, dorktainian, WindfishDude, DoomNation, ghost9191, Young_Ether, Vigilant111, The_RPGenius, luchozuca, I_am_disappoint, Ajensis, BD_Manchild, Storm258, vivaladricas, Tooneyman, mauro2222, SebastianDA, Dorje_Sylas, Bunanah, Almostfaceman, CitizenThom, Kamfrenchie, DarkLord_PT, DnA_SLAYTANIC, xxBabyMonkeyxx, DemiWoody, xray16, sveners, Heather_Cline, Valmarn, The_Mad_Hanar, chevyguy87, Rudy_Lis, pants_witch, Legion_RS, Doc_Magnus, Arbiter156, Oransel, darkway1, Galbrant, Kabraxal, o_Ventus, Kesak12, N7_Paragon2077, Neverwinter_Knight77, Festae9, SarcasmRealist, .PHANTOM, d1ta, Humanoid_Typhoon, Jawsomebob, Felis_Menari, M920CAIN, Redbelle, Haargel, BearlyHere, Bolt-Action, vixvicco, Yakko77, katness, Reptilian_Rob, AdmiralCheez, CrazyRah, Foulpancake, Aulis_Vaara, Malckeor, Alez_Zinai, Omega_Torsk, TheRealJayDee, THEE_DEATHMASTER, N7_Lisbeth, Dessalines, Ozida, GreyReaver, cuzsal, Pheonix57, -Draikin-, Gokuthegrate, Cthulhu42, jkflipflopDAO, Sinapus, Mystiq6, Epique_Phael767, xGamerx599, darknessmyown, Strategyking92, TheCinC, Discouraged_one, SovereignSRV, garf, Landon7001, Wattamelun, ME859, Reciever80, MaxMcKay, Remanentmoss01, Official_DJ_Harbinger, obZen_DF, PhyroClone, DrwEddy, fainmaca, Deltoran, Cirreus, bobobo878, macarius5, vallore, kil_edward93, JDeelane, EJ107, baned1, Wayning_Star, Eloise_K, Lunch_Box1912, legion_21, NorDee65, Darkin30, eoinnx03, Chashan, TreguardD, pgcis136, sg1fan75, Troxa, BaladasDemnevanni, Chaotic_Fusion, TJBartlemus, Debi-Tage, Fawx9, George_Costanza, Isichar, Icinix, LupusXIII, Jaryd_theBlackDragon, webhead921, Hrothdane, ElectroNeonPanda, mhammer50, someone_else, Greylycantrope, nibbo373, sdinc009, Cecilia_L, AchesOfDoom, luzburg, seyshell, Pain87, Mr_Worms, Torhagen, CBGB, Snypy, Essalor, SupesForever, Jackal13th, Demon560, Qui-Gon_Glenn, Biosman, MassEffectFShep, Jonathan_Sud, Xilizhra, GarvakD,  ld1449, BringBackNihlus, ddraigcoch123, Code_R, luciox, xcomcmdr, Xandurpein, my_Aim_is_True, N7_Assass1n, Babizokahh, Bester76, keopm, bip78, Chaotic-Fusion, PPF65, Beta_Charlie, KevShep, SimonTheFrog, futurepixels, Mr.BlazenGlazen, hornedfrog87, Th3_Bunman, garf, Alienboy411676, DirtyMouthSally, wwinters99, Hexley_UK, RedTail_F22, Reth_Shepherd, AnsinJung, SiriusXI, HinduCowGirl, V-rcingetorix, DWH1982, irokeesi, Paranoidal_nemesis, Fattness132, cavs25, ElChipmunko, CyberMiguel, Mad-Hamlet, jakal66, Jacksor1, luaggy, wantedman_dan, Mikk016, Knottedredloc, Dr.Freeman, M.C.Tales, Lakeshow1986, DarthSleepy, nopantsisabela, AJ2324, timedagar,

[Iakus]

-Draikin- wrote...

I think the "it could be his/her last breath" explanation is laughable, but to be honest I'm not really interested in seeing a reunion anyway if the endings stay as they are. I find it odd that people can so easily look past Shepard stabbing his/her friends in the back (I would assume the majority don't think of them as "just machines"). Due to lack of closure, the ending doesn't actually confront you with what you did. How would a reunion between Joker and Shepard play out, for example?

The main problem for me is still that the RGB endings require Shepard to pick one of the choices offered by an insane AI. No amount of "closure" or "clarification" fixes that. In fact it makes it even worse. I just get to hear more of the Catalyst's nonsense and I nothing I say can change its opinion. The one choice where Bioware had Shepard act like him/herself results in the worst possible ending. A destroy ending where Shepard dies instead of the geth and EDI would at least be somewhat acceptable. It would still be stupid, but at least you get the end result that Shepard was looking for. But of course everyone would choose that ending (you know, since it actually fits the story) , so they add a random penalty without thinking about what it actually does to Shepard's character. The current Destroy ending was designed to make the player feel bad for choosing it.

The endings will never be good.  That ship has sailed.  I made my peace with that months ago.

Now I'm just looking for one ending that can make the game replayable.

[Xilizhra]

What saddens me is that Control, I feel, could have been made far better than it was... possibly having Shepard survive in physical form would have helped, but better foreshadowing and TIM not being indoctrinated into evilness would probably be necessary.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I agree with you dee that people seem to have forgotten how to have fun. This is a "feel bad" ending. 5 years 11 plays of 1 & 2 and looking forward to multiple plays of 3 and we get a feel bad ending. No thanks. Twice was enough. I couldn't do that to a player even if it meant putting in the most overused, unimaginative, fly off into the sunset with your LI cliche ending because I'd run out of ideas, but I'd make sure it was done well and you felt like a hero/ine. At least you wouldn't be complaining because ending sucked.

The journal & codex? Another story. Now that's really bad, and not an easy one to fix. People would be raging about that.

Hmmm..... This gets me wondering if the ending took the heat off the journal system.

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I agree with you dee that people seem to have forgotten how to have fun. This is a "feel bad" ending. 5 years 11 plays of 1 & 2 and looking forward to multiple plays of 3 and we get a feel bad ending. No thanks. Twice was enough. I couldn't do that to a player even if it meant putting in the most overused, unimaginative, fly off into the sunset with your LI cliche ending because I'd run out of ideas, but I'd make sure it was done well and you felt like a hero/ine. At least you wouldn't be complaining because ending sucked.

The journal & codex? Another story. Now that's really bad, and not an easy one to fix. People would be raging about that.

Hmmm..... This gets me wondering if the ending took the heat off the journal system.

I'm still pointing out that some of the squads alt appearance are copy and paste reskins of each other

[Darth Asriel]

I still can't bring myself to import all of my other Sheps. It's hard knowing that all of their journeys were pointless in the end.

[ohbarf]

3DandBeyond, I like you a lot. Everything you're saying is essentially how I feel, and I'm really glad that your thread has become so big. It's comforting to come to these forums after staying away for weeks and see this on the front page. I'm happy that people are still actively voicing their concerns and their feelings even if Bioware seems incredibly dead-set on ignoring them all.

I could go on for paragraph after paragraph after paragraph but the bottom line is that I don't think I'll ever quite get over how such an incredible journey like Mass Effect was brought to an end. It's really just.. heartbreaking. The end of a story you've immersed yourself in is difficult, like waking up from a long dream -- you realize that your time with those characters and in those places is over. Saying goodbye to Shepard's saga was going to be hard enough, but going out on a note like this was jarring and disheartening.

I think of everything that could have been and it makes me pretty sad. I keep looking for signs that things will be different in the future and I do not see anything like that. I wish things were different. I guess that's it.

Modifié par ohbarf, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:21 .

[Lunch Box1912]

3DandBeyond wrote...


Fun surprise is thinking no one remembered your birthday and then finding out all your friends are waiting with food and gifts for you.  Not fun surprise is being told your new puppy is waiting for you at home, only to get home and find out he was run over by a car.  Fun surprise is thinking you did bad on a test and finding out you aced it.  Not fun surprise is being told you won the lottery and finding out you didn't.  Fun surprise is being told the hero of 5 years, 100 plus hours of 3 stories and gameplay will probably die and finding out s/he can live.  Not fun surprise is being led to believe (as in the other 2 games) that the ending will feature a surprise where the hero lives and sees his/her friends again, and finding out the hero mostly dies (in 3 out of 4 endings) and in one ending the hero's torso is gasping in a pile of rubble and ambiguity.  Really not fun surprise is being told you could get a best ending (now, not through MP!!!) which implies a new real win and a hero lives and is with friends ending, and then getting a torso gasping in a pile of rubble and ambiguity.  Super not fun surprise is hanging onto that itty bitty piece of torso hope that that torso is alive and then being told it could just as likely be a dying torso.

I think somebody must have stolen their fun surprises when they were children so now they have forgotten what it's like to really enjoy a suprise.

It's not fun and it's not funny.

(Bioware employee) ....Can you please specify fun surprise again that wasn't quite clear?

[Lunch Box1912]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Since BioWare has acknowledged this thread and we are approaching page 250, I thought it would be a good idea to present them with specific numbers of members that have posted here and implicitly or explicitly supported 3D’s plea. I know they are not going to read through 250 pages. Therefore, I decided to save them the work.
 
It has been said that this thread is kept alive by “a few dozen” diehards that keep bump it up, so I wanted to verify that claim. The fact is that most members that have expressed support or sympathy have posted only once or twice. Many times I found a solitary post like: “OP, I support your plea” in a whole page filled with fruitless arguments. So I wanted those voices to be heard.
 
What I did was create a sort of “signature page” listing the “names” of all of those who expressed support in any way. At this point there are 323 supporters.
 
Disclaimers:
1-      As a rule I included those who don’t like the ending.
2-      I didn’t include some who don’t like the ending and explicitly expressed opposition to this plea.
3-      I didn’t include any one with ambivalent opinions
4-      I apologize if I left out any supporter or included someone who doesn’t rather be counted as supporter as I didn’t correctly interpret their intent.
5-      I thoroughly revised the list as not to have duplicated entries, but I might’ve missed a couple.  
 
Dee, you might want to include this in your OP, but I’d understand if you don’t as it is rather long. Your call.
 
Here it is:

3DandBeyond, fil009, comrade_gando, Xellith, Conniving_Eagle, AresKeith, Kel_Riever, EldritchAbomination, Chardonney, a_load_of_stanton, Massa_FX, LadyWench, sharkboy421, Flog61, jules_vern18, 10110001110100, Ithurael, ShepnTali, plfranke, clennon8, MattFini, Had-to-say, avatar0, PuppiesOfDeath2, Warrior_Craess, Benchpress610, Stornskar, Applepie_Svk, Sky651, JPR1964 , iakus, AngryFrozenWater, sH0tgUn_jUliA, davepissedatending, Fiannawolf, Koranis.W, Jade8aby88, inversevideo, ThaDPG, Captain_McBuck, daecath, Darth_Asriel, SkullStrife, FOX216BC, kyban, Argetfalcon, saber00005, Baa_Baa, SpamBot2000, MapleJar, phat0817, Mdoggy1214, Eryri, wh00ley_06, detbasketball13, Fandango9641, Archonsg, Zan51, ziyon_conqueror, element_eater, GodSentinelOmega, mjb203, Moirai, A_Slice_of_Pink, drayfish, XqctaX, Bathaius, liggy002, Dr_Megaverse, Skeem, Astralify, frostajulie, Somejoe01, JSwisha, devSin, Jere85, bigmass41, crimzontearz, OniTYME, KrazyKiko, LiarasShield, thefallen2far, Grand_Admiral_Cheesecake, darthoptimus003, Shinobu, chadesh, Killdren88, KENNY4753, xIIReFLeXlIx, I_eat_unicorns, elitehunter34, schwarzaj, mrcanada, RenegonSQ, TheConstantOne, zambot, Daryslash, tyrvas, VettoRyouzou, Calamity, Gtacatalina, MaxGwenesef, ZeCollectorDestroya, 2Shepards, GhostShadow115, alleyd, Emphyr, cynicalandbored, Snake91, StElmo, dorktainian, WindfishDude, DoomNation, ghost9191, Young_Ether, Vigilant111, The_RPGenius, luchozuca, I_am_disappoint, Ajensis, BD_Manchild, Storm258, vivaladricas, Tooneyman, mauro2222, SebastianDA, Dorje_Sylas, Bunanah, Almostfaceman, CitizenThom, Kamfrenchie, DarkLord_PT, DnA_SLAYTANIC, xxBabyMonkeyxx, DemiWoody, xray16, sveners, Heather_Cline, Valmarn, The_Mad_Hanar, chevyguy87, Rudy_Lis, pants_witch, Legion_RS, Doc_Magnus, Arbiter156, Oransel, darkway1, Galbrant, Kabraxal, o_Ventus, Kesak12, N7_Paragon2077, Neverwinter_Knight77, Festae9, SarcasmRealist, .PHANTOM, d1ta, Humanoid_Typhoon, Jawsomebob, Felis_Menari, M920CAIN, Redbelle, Haargel, BearlyHere, Bolt-Action, vixvicco, Yakko77, katness, Reptilian_Rob, AdmiralCheez, CrazyRah, Foulpancake, Aulis_Vaara, Malckeor, Alez_Zinai, Omega_Torsk, TheRealJayDee, THEE_DEATHMASTER, N7_Lisbeth, Dessalines, Ozida, GreyReaver, cuzsal, Pheonix57, -Draikin-, Gokuthegrate, Cthulhu42, jkflipflopDAO, Sinapus, Mystiq6, Epique_Phael767, xGamerx599, darknessmyown, Strategyking92, TheCinC, Discouraged_one, SovereignSRV, garf, Landon7001, Wattamelun, ME859, Reciever80, MaxMcKay, Remanentmoss01, Official_DJ_Harbinger, obZen_DF, PhyroClone, DrwEddy, fainmaca, Deltoran, Cirreus, bobobo878, macarius5, vallore, kil_edward93, JDeelane, EJ107, baned1, Wayning_Star, Eloise_K, Lunch_Box1912, legion_21, NorDee65, Darkin30, eoinnx03, Chashan, TreguardD, pgcis136, sg1fan75, Troxa, BaladasDemnevanni, Chaotic_Fusion, TJBartlemus, Debi-Tage, Fawx9, George_Costanza, Isichar, Icinix, LupusXIII, Jaryd_theBlackDragon, webhead921, Hrothdane, ElectroNeonPanda, mhammer50, someone_else, Greylycantrope, nibbo373, sdinc009, Cecilia_L, AchesOfDoom, luzburg, seyshell, Pain87, Mr_Worms, Torhagen, CBGB, Snypy, Essalor, SupesForever, Jackal13th, Demon560, Qui-Gon_Glenn, Biosman, MassEffectFShep, Jonathan_Sud, Xilizhra, GarvakD,  ld1449, BringBackNihlus, ddraigcoch123, Code_R, luciox, xcomcmdr, Xandurpein, my_Aim_is_True, N7_Assass1n, Babizokahh, Bester76, keopm, bip78, Chaotic-Fusion, PPF65, Beta_Charlie, KevShep, SimonTheFrog, futurepixels, Mr.BlazenGlazen, hornedfrog87, Th3_Bunman, garf, Alienboy411676, DirtyMouthSally, wwinters99, Hexley_UK, RedTail_F22, Reth_Shepherd, AnsinJung, SiriusXI, HinduCowGirl, V-rcingetorix, DWH1982, irokeesi, Paranoidal_nemesis, Fattness132, cavs25, ElChipmunko, CyberMiguel, Mad-Hamlet, jakal66, Jacksor1, luaggy, wantedman_dan, Mikk016, Knottedredloc, Dr.Freeman, M.C.Tales, Lakeshow1986, DarthSleepy, nopantsisabela, AJ2324, timedagar,

Whats this the new ban wave list?....  j/k   Now how do we get Priestly to relay the message?



Ok we’ll print up the whole Thread all 250 pages, I’ll wear the Wrex suit, ring his doorbell and when he answers scream Chris it’s your Bro Wrex! Here we all think you should read this...then I’ll just run off down the street screaming all hale Urdnot clan! and for Tuchanka! in the Wrex suit.

He’ll read it, it’s from Wrex…… anyone have a Wrex suit?

Modifié par Lunch Box1912, 06 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .

[CrimsonNephilim]

I fully support 3D's stand and everyone else who has stated why the endings we were given are not acceptable.

I'm just going to start off by saying that I never even finished my ME3 play-through. Like many fans who anticipated ME3's launch, I bought the game at its midnight release and by this point I was fully aware of the arguments, rumors, and concerns going around about the game (endings included) because I kept myself up-to-date on the spoilers that were being released. Main reason being is that I wanted to know what to expect out of what I thought was going to be the mind blowing conclusion of this magnificent video game series which has now become a bitter and heart-breaking disappointment.

As soon as I got home, before I even put in the game I found posts on here from people who managed to get copies from the Space Launch that the rumored endings were, indeed, true. That alone just killed any interest I had in playing ME3. Regardless, I tried anyway and proceeded to put my game disc into my 360, and imported my cannon Femshep.

I just got past Palaven when I suddenly decided to not even bother playing. I knew what was going to happen at the end, regardless of all the choices I had made since ME1 so what was the point in even playing ME3?

My major gripes with ME3 is that pretty much everything in the game completely voided our choices from the start (examples: Choose Anderson as counselor, Udina is ret-conned in anyway, kill the Rachni queen in ME1? Oh hey, here's another one so yeah that choice was pointless! ha ha! Manage to make the appropriate decisions throughout all 3 games to get the best ending possible? Well, doesn't matter because the end result comes down to a number in your EMS and what skittles color you're in the mood for. Oh, by the way you only get 3 choices: Red, green or Blue).

It infuriates me to no end that what happens at the end of ME3, no matter what choices you made, they are completely disregarded when the time comes for you to pick the ending. To add insult to injury, we have no chance to play Shepard as we want and fight for decent ending. We get dictated to about the 3 choices we have by some starchild (which the concept of just makes my head want to split in two) and we have to pick one. That's it. Period.

It might just be me, but Shepard wouldn't have accepted being put into a position like that where s/he has to make a choice between: Die, Die and turn everyone into cyborgs, or destroy and leave a big mess of ambiguity of whether or not you live at the end. The big thing behind this game was to make OUR choices matter. OUR choices, as in the players. For us to actually have a say in what happens at the end and have our choices either bring help to the story or become a consequence. We didn't get that and I feel cheated because of it.

I personally would liked the option to have Shepard prove that the belief that organic life and artificial intelligence can live in peace which could have given us the chance to defy the Starchild, stop the Reapers, save the galaxy, and be reunited with the crew. Proof of that being if you were able to broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth. There must have been a way to do this and still get the bittersweet ending Bioware was looking for at the end. Yes, it's war and yes it makes sense for there to be an ending where it isn't gumdrops and rainbow sunshine, but contrived RGB endings, the "breath at the end is for you to interpret as Shepard living or dying", and the constant back and forth of Yes, No, yes, No, Maybe, No what you guys have is what you get, etc is just...No.

We aren't complaining about this still just to complain. We are honest fans of the ME series and we just want this series, or at least this storyline of the ME series, to go out in a great way. It had a chance to become one of the best Sci-Fi games to date but instead it has become one of great disappointment. All we're asking for is to hear us, and understand our position on why we feel the way we feel about the current endings to ME3 which doesn't seem to be happening.

Edit: spelling

Modifié par CrimsonNephilim, 06 octobre 2012 - 05:36 .

[3DandBeyond]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Since BioWare has acknowledged this thread and we are approaching page 250, I thought it would be a good idea to present them with specific numbers of members that have posted here and implicitly or explicitly supported 3D’s plea. I know they are not going to read through 250 pages. Therefore, I decided to save them the work.
 
It has been said that this thread is kept alive by “a few dozen” diehards that keep bump it up, so I wanted to verify that claim. The fact is that most members that have expressed support or sympathy have posted only once or twice. Many times I found a solitary post like: “OP, I support your plea” in a whole page filled with fruitless arguments. So I wanted those voices to be heard.
 
What I did was create a sort of “signature page” listing the “names” of all of those who expressed support in any way. At this point there are 323 supporters.
 
Disclaimers:
1-      As a rule I included those who don’t like the ending.
2-      I didn’t include some who don’t like the ending and explicitly expressed opposition to this plea.
3-      I didn’t include any one with ambivalent opinions
4-      I apologize if I left out any supporter or included someone who doesn’t rather be counted as supporter as I didn’t correctly interpret their intent.
5-      I thoroughly revised the list as not to have duplicated entries, but I might’ve missed a couple.  
 
Dee, you might want to include this in your OP, but I’d understand if you don’t as it is rather long. Your call.
 
Here it is:

3DandBeyond, fil009, comrade_gando, Xellith, Conniving_Eagle, AresKeith, Kel_Riever, EldritchAbomination, Chardonney, a_load_of_stanton, Massa_FX, LadyWench, sharkboy421, Flog61, jules_vern18, 10110001110100, Ithurael, ShepnTali, plfranke, clennon8, MattFini, Had-to-say, avatar0, PuppiesOfDeath2, Warrior_Craess, Benchpress610, Stornskar, Applepie_Svk, Sky651, JPR1964 , iakus, AngryFrozenWater, sH0tgUn_jUliA, davepissedatending, Fiannawolf, Koranis.W, Jade8aby88, inversevideo, ThaDPG, Captain_McBuck, daecath, Darth_Asriel, SkullStrife, FOX216BC, kyban, Argetfalcon, saber00005, Baa_Baa, SpamBot2000, MapleJar, phat0817, Mdoggy1214, Eryri, wh00ley_06, detbasketball13, Fandango9641, Archonsg, Zan51, ziyon_conqueror, element_eater, GodSentinelOmega, mjb203, Moirai, A_Slice_of_Pink, drayfish, XqctaX, Bathaius, liggy002, Dr_Megaverse, Skeem, Astralify, frostajulie, Somejoe01, JSwisha, devSin, Jere85, bigmass41, crimzontearz, OniTYME, KrazyKiko, LiarasShield, thefallen2far, Grand_Admiral_Cheesecake, darthoptimus003, Shinobu, chadesh, Killdren88, KENNY4753, xIIReFLeXlIx, I_eat_unicorns, elitehunter34, schwarzaj, mrcanada, RenegonSQ, TheConstantOne, zambot, Daryslash, tyrvas, VettoRyouzou, Calamity, Gtacatalina, MaxGwenesef, ZeCollectorDestroya, 2Shepards, GhostShadow115, alleyd, Emphyr, cynicalandbored, Snake91, StElmo, dorktainian, WindfishDude, DoomNation, ghost9191, Young_Ether, Vigilant111, The_RPGenius, luchozuca, I_am_disappoint, Ajensis, BD_Manchild, Storm258, vivaladricas, Tooneyman, mauro2222, SebastianDA, Dorje_Sylas, Bunanah, Almostfaceman, CitizenThom, Kamfrenchie, DarkLord_PT, DnA_SLAYTANIC, xxBabyMonkeyxx, DemiWoody, xray16, sveners, Heather_Cline, Valmarn, The_Mad_Hanar, chevyguy87, Rudy_Lis, pants_witch, Legion_RS, Doc_Magnus, Arbiter156, Oransel, darkway1, Galbrant, Kabraxal, o_Ventus, Kesak12, N7_Paragon2077, Neverwinter_Knight77, Festae9, SarcasmRealist, .PHANTOM, d1ta, Humanoid_Typhoon, Jawsomebob, Felis_Menari, M920CAIN, Redbelle, Haargel, BearlyHere, Bolt-Action, vixvicco, Yakko77, katness, Reptilian_Rob, AdmiralCheez, CrazyRah, Foulpancake, Aulis_Vaara, Malckeor, Alez_Zinai, Omega_Torsk, TheRealJayDee, THEE_DEATHMASTER, N7_Lisbeth, Dessalines, Ozida, GreyReaver, cuzsal, Pheonix57, -Draikin-, Gokuthegrate, Cthulhu42, jkflipflopDAO, Sinapus, Mystiq6, Epique_Phael767, xGamerx599, darknessmyown, Strategyking92, TheCinC, Discouraged_one, SovereignSRV, garf, Landon7001, Wattamelun, ME859, Reciever80, MaxMcKay, Remanentmoss01, Official_DJ_Harbinger, obZen_DF, PhyroClone, DrwEddy, fainmaca, Deltoran, Cirreus, bobobo878, macarius5, vallore, kil_edward93, JDeelane, EJ107, baned1, Wayning_Star, Eloise_K, Lunch_Box1912, legion_21, NorDee65, Darkin30, eoinnx03, Chashan, TreguardD, pgcis136, sg1fan75, Troxa, BaladasDemnevanni, Chaotic_Fusion, TJBartlemus, Debi-Tage, Fawx9, George_Costanza, Isichar, Icinix, LupusXIII, Jaryd_theBlackDragon, webhead921, Hrothdane, ElectroNeonPanda, mhammer50, someone_else, Greylycantrope, nibbo373, sdinc009, Cecilia_L, AchesOfDoom, luzburg, seyshell, Pain87, Mr_Worms, Torhagen, CBGB, Snypy, Essalor, SupesForever, Jackal13th, Demon560, Qui-Gon_Glenn, Biosman, MassEffectFShep, Jonathan_Sud, Xilizhra, GarvakD,  ld1449, BringBackNihlus, ddraigcoch123, Code_R, luciox, xcomcmdr, Xandurpein, my_Aim_is_True, N7_Assass1n, Babizokahh, Bester76, keopm, bip78, Chaotic-Fusion, PPF65, Beta_Charlie, KevShep, SimonTheFrog, futurepixels, Mr.BlazenGlazen, hornedfrog87, Th3_Bunman, garf, Alienboy411676, DirtyMouthSally, wwinters99, Hexley_UK, RedTail_F22, Reth_Shepherd, AnsinJung, SiriusXI, HinduCowGirl, V-rcingetorix, DWH1982, irokeesi, Paranoidal_nemesis, Fattness132, cavs25, ElChipmunko, CyberMiguel, Mad-Hamlet, jakal66, Jacksor1, luaggy, wantedman_dan, Mikk016, Knottedredloc, Dr.Freeman, M.C.Tales, Lakeshow1986, DarthSleepy, nopantsisabela, AJ2324, timedagar,

Wow, that is pretty impressive for a game that some think we should all just forget about.  Thanks so much for all that work.  I actually do think I will use that.

[3DandBeyond]

ohbarf wrote...

3DandBeyond, I like you a lot. Everything you're saying is essentially how I feel, and I'm really glad that your thread has become so big. It's comforting to come to these forums after staying away for weeks and see this on the front page. I'm happy that people are still actively voicing their concerns and their feelings even if Bioware seems incredibly dead-set on ignoring them all.

I could go on for paragraph after paragraph after paragraph but the bottom line is that I don't think I'll ever quite get over how such an incredible journey like Mass Effect was brought to an end. It's really just.. heartbreaking. The end of a story you've immersed yourself in is difficult, like waking up from a long dream -- you realize that your time with those characters and in those places is over. Saying goodbye to Shepard's saga was going to be hard enough, but going out on a note like this was jarring and disheartening.

I think of everything that could have been and it makes me pretty sad. I keep looking for signs that things will be different in the future and I do not see anything like that. I wish things were different. I guess that's it.

I appreciate your kind words.  Let me repeat this now and be very clear.  No matter what comes of this I for one am glad to be able to discuss such heartfelt subjects with all of you.  Sure, we get a little crazy and all of that, but if nothing else this game did enrich my life because of all of you.  That may sound cheesy, but I mean it.

And one thing, there's a book I once read that had a line in it that meant so much to me-I read it a number of years ago and it means something here.  Yes, this is a game, but there's a reason why I can never choose any ending.  The game made you care.  Those characters that would lose at the end if I chose one of these ghastly things are not replaceable.  Shepard isn't.  And the natural choice if real that I would always choose, I can't. 

My Shepard gave EDI life, not as in birth, but life.  My Shepard gave the geth that too.  They aren't numbers or some cold calculus or any such thing.  They are supposed to be real people whose lives you are meant to consider.  Yes, this is a game.  I know that.  But they still matter because the game did get us to imagine things in all the right parts and places.  But at the end it did the unthinkable and told us to imagine all the rest as if those things we did use our imagination for already, never mattered. 

You just have to think about this.  The games we know were not perfect.  So, when dialogue didn't match up, we imagined the right words and what was meant.  When romances seemed a bit too quick or less than everything you always wanted, we filled in the missing pieces.  When something was out of place, we tried to make sense of it all and we used our imaginations when we should.  But at the end, the story and the writers and the game should have taken over and it should have been wrapped up in moments of conflict that we didn't have to imagine and it should have been concluded.

The book I once read was called "Written On The Body" by Jeanette Winterson.  The line in it is something like this:  "There's a hole in my heart in exactly the shape of you."  It means that people are not interchangeable or replaceable.  To me it applies here because I feel like I'd have to have a far more compelling reason to lose (kill) the geth and EDI than the writers have presented.  For me this game doesn't have that compelling reason-none of the choices is clearly good and believably good.

[3DandBeyond]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

I fully support 3D's stand and everyone else who has stated why the endings we were given are not acceptable.

I'm just going to start off by saying that I never even finished my ME3 play-through. Like many fans who anticipated ME3's launch, I bought the game at its midnight release and by this point I was fully aware of the arguments, rumors, and concerns going around about the game (endings included) because I kept myself up-to-date on the spoilers that were being released. Main reason being is that I wanted to know what to expect out of what I thought was going to be the mind blowing conclusion of this magnificent video game series which has now become a bitter and heart-breaking disappointment.

As soon as I got home, before I even put in the game I found posts on here from people who managed to get copies from the Space Launch that the rumored endings were, indeed, true. That alone just killed any interest I had in playing ME3. Regardless, I tried anyway and proceeded to put my game disc into my 360, and imported my cannon Femshep.

I just got past Palaven when I suddenly decided to not even bother playing. I knew what was going to happen at the end, regardless of all the choices I had made since ME1 so what was the point in even playing ME3?

My major gripes with ME3 is that pretty much everything in the game completely voided our choices from the start (examples: Choose Anderson as counselor, Udina is ret-conned in anyway, kill the Rachni queen in ME1? Oh hey, here's another one so yeah that choice was pointless! ha ha! Manage to make the appropriate decisions throughout all 3 games to get the best ending possible? Well, doesn't matter because the end result comes down to a number in your EMS and what skittles color you're in the mood for. Oh, by the way you only get 3 choices: Red, green or Blue).

It infuriates me to no end that what happens at the end of ME3, no matter what choices you made, they are completely disregarded when the time comes for you to pick the ending. To add insult to injury, we have no chance to play Shepard as we want and fight for decent ending. We get dictated to about the 3 choices we have by some starchild (which the concept of just makes my head want to split in two) and we have to pick one. That's it. Period.

It might just be me, but Shepard wouldn't have accepted being put into a position like that where s/he has to make a choice between: Die, Die and turn everyone into cyborgs, or destroy and leave a big mess of ambiguity of whether or not you live at the end. The big thing behind this game was to make OUR choices matter. OUR choices, as in the players. For us to actually have a say in what happens at the end and have our choices either bring help to the story or become a consequence. We didn't get that and I feel cheated because of it.

I personally would liked the option to have Shepard prove that the belief that organic life and artificial intelligence can live in peace which could have given us the chance to defy the Starchild, stop the Reapers, save the galaxy, and be reunited with the crew. Proof of that being if you were able to broker peace between the Quarians and the Geth. There must have been a way to do this and still get the bittersweet ending Bioware was looking for at the end. Yes, it's war and yes it makes sense for there to be an ending where it isn't gumdrops and rainbow sunshine, but contrived RGB endings, the "breath at the end is for you to interpret as Shepard living or dying", and the constant back and forth of Yes, No, yes, No, Maybe, No what you guys have is what you get, etc is just...No.

We aren't complaining about this still just to complain. We are honest fans of the ME series and we just want this series, or at least this storyline of the ME series, to go out in a great way. It had a chance to become one of the best Sci-Fi games to date but instead it has become one of great disappointment. All we're asking for is to hear us, and understand our position on why we feel the way we feel about the current endings to ME3 which doesn't seem to be happening.

Edit: spelling

Very good and heartfelt post.

[Kathleen321]

I would like a little sappy reunion with my L.I I think we all would.

[CrimsonNephilim]

Bioware really could turn this whole thing around if they locked into the IT and created a DLC off it. If done right, not only would it redeem BW and the ME series, we would possible get the closure so many of us are looking for (given we don't end up with another Choose A Color scenario), and bring in the mind-blowing, ground-breaking conclusion to Shepard's story as well as bring ME back to being one of the best games created.

Sadly, the chances of that happening are getting smaller and smaller.

Modifié par CrimsonNephilim, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .

[The RPGenius]

I haven't responded to this topic for over 200 pages or so, but I'd like to reaffirm that I am very much in support of it.

I'd also like to publicly state a reminder to Bioware that while I have purchased and own Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, three of the Mass Effect books, all DLCs for ME1 and ME2, and a Mass Effect comic book (the one with Liara recovering Shepard's body; can't remember the title of it), and was more than enthusiastic to do make each purchase at the time, I have not made a single Mass Effect purchase of any kind since reaching the end of Mass Effect 3, and I will not until a minimally acceptable Paragon ending, one which does not sacrifice the character and values of a paragon, is created--a successful Refuse, and/or a Destroy option that does not sacrifice EDI and the Geth. I will not buy Mass Effect DLC, I will not buy Mass Effect books, and I definitely will not buy future Mass Effect games until Bioware shows me that it cares about its art, not its ego, and creates an ending a Paragon player can actually feel satisfied with. And by the same note, I will be happy--ecstatic!--to buy every ME3 DLC (yes, even the ridiculously meaningless Firefight Pack) should Bioware finally decide to do what's morally, artistically, and financially correct. Heck, I might even go back and retroactively purchase those idiotic weapon and appearance DLC packs for Mass Effect 2, while I'm at it. But until I'm provided a product of acceptable quality, that will not happen.

[Iakus]

3DandBeyond wrote...



My Shepard gave EDI life, not as in birth, but life.  My Shepard gave the geth that too.  They aren't numbers or some cold calculus or any such thing.  They are supposed to be real people whose lives you are meant to consider.  Yes, this is a game.  I know that.  But they still matter because the game did get us to imagine things in all the right parts and places.  But at the end it did the unthinkable and told us to imagine all the rest as if those things we did use our imagination for already, never mattered.  

And this is why I think we should have had some sort of farewell scene in Destroy with EDI.  It would make losing her much less sucky.  I mean, with Mordin, he goes into the elevator knowing he's not coming back, but ready to face it, because, as he put it "had to be me.  Someone else might have gotten it wrong"  We got to see his acceptance of the end, even as he wishes ti could have been otherwise.  

EDI's death was callous and impersonal  in comparison.  It's offscreen, never mentioned.  She's tossed away like so much refuse.  That's the sting to the ending, more so than actually losing her and the death.  It's done in such a pointless manner.

Modifié par iakus, 06 octobre 2012 - 06:42 .

[Zan51]

3D, It's been a pleasure to read your thread, and same goes for all the above mentioned posters - best thread here, mates! Insightful and incisive posts, discussed well. My hat is off to all of you.

[Calamity]

It sounds like we are saying goodbye.

[pgcis136]

/\\ I hope not.

[CaIIisto]

Fringe, Fox, love letter?

OMG - You know things are bleak when Fox get something that you don't.

The EC was the perfect opportunity to resolve the betrayal that many fans felt after the original endings. Instead, they showed us the middle finger and now continue to treat this subset of fans with little but absolute contempt.

[SpamBot2000]

-Draikin- wrote...


The main problem for me is still that the RGB endings require Shepard to pick one of the choices offered by an insane AI. No amount of "closure" or "clarification" fixes that.

Yeah, I absolutely get that Shep's fate matters a great deal to people, but let's not lose sight of this either.