6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Benchpress610]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

Ha --- I here you OP, I was just suggesting that some personally made fan-fic would help out, you know -- stop playing where Mr. Sheild's attempts his last run to kill you off before its too late! --- I think that is where most people stop.

All I have to say is --- you know, if your going to attempt a Mass Effect 4 ( If its even called that ) --- please don't repeat this terrible shift of lore and forced ideas. Now you have created people who would have otherwise bought your games, to stop, wait for a few reviews after a couple of weeks, maybe get a hint of what the ending is going to be like --- AND THEN --- they'll buy your new game. I do not think this particular company realizes what it has done to its name-brand. Its suspect instead of automatically chosen. Just like Bethesda has done itself a good one with the PS3 issues and Skyrim. Most of the giants have fumbled last round. Will they turn around after half-time? We're waiting to see.

For sure I am one of those who won't pre-order any more. From now on I will wait until the game is released and check the fan’s reviews, not the “professional critics”, but the fan’s. Based on that I’d decide whether to buy it or not

[Chardonney]

Bester76 wrote...

MrnDpty161 wrote...
stop playing where Mr. Sheild's attempts his last run to kill you off before its too late! --- I think that is where most people stop.

Everything up to actually meeting the Catalyst is tolerable. Wouldn't really want to lose the "Best seats in the house" scene. 

That is a wonderful scene, yes. Even Weekes thought that it shouldn't have gone beyond that:

"For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just…"


I kind a wish he would have finished that line. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Bester76 wrote...

MrnDpty161 wrote...
stop playing where Mr. Sheild's attempts his last run to kill you off before its too late! --- I think that is where most people stop.

Everything up to actually meeting the Catalyst is tolerable. Wouldn't really want to lose the "Best seats in the house" scene. 

This is my view as well, though I could even stomach the Catalyst (begrugdingly) if the options it presented were closer to achieving what I actually wanted, which was getting rid of the Reapers, not just the harvest the Reapers in general, and letting the galaxy I helped unit find it's own path. Whether you choose red blue or green you deny that freedom to someone.

[CrimsonNephilim]

I wonder how ME3 would have gone if Drew Karpyshyn hadn't left Bioware or at least stayed on and saw Mass Effect through until 3 then departed.

Sadly, we'll never know :-(

[AresKeith]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

I wonder how ME3 would have gone if Drew Karpyshyn hadn't left Bioware or at least stayed on and saw Mass Effect through until 3 then departed.

Sadly, we'll never know :-(

We'd probably have the Dark Energy ending which was also stupid, the real problem was the Narrative Director leaving after ME2

[CrimsonNephilim]

At this point I would take the Dark Energy ending over the RGB endings. It might have worked out if it had a chance to get fleshed out. We possibly could have ended up with real closure as well over "Shepard is in a pile of rubble somewhere. Now everyone...Headcannon your own ending!"

[DWH1982]

I think the dark matter ending had the potential to be good. The main problems with it are that it was never really developed much beyond being an idea.

In any event, I understand Drew Karpyshyn himself says that the dark matter endings were abandoned during ME2, albeit too late to remove any of the foreshadowing. So, if we take him at his word, no, they wouldn't have been in ME3.

Modifié par DWH1982, 07 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .

[CaIIisto]

Dark Energy vs Space Casper.

Think I'd take DE - it would take something monumentally bad to usurp the utter stupidity of Starjar.

According to the (allegedly) fake Weekes interview, no one except Hudson and Walters saw the script for everything from the TIM bit through Space Casper, until all the dialogue had already been recorded. If that were true, that would be seriously f*cked up.

[CrimsonNephilim]

The Dark Energy thing is one of the things that bugged me about ME3. Over the past 2 games it is foreshadowed about being a major issue and then come ME3...

*POOF*

Space magic...Dark Energy never happened

*Insert Men In Black mind erase*

[AresKeith]

I dunno, I'd rather take an ending where both Drew and Mac didn't go overboard with the plot and made the Reapers into misunderstood good guys.

[DWH1982]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

At this point I would take the Dark Energy ending over the RGB endings. It might have worked out if it had a chance to get fleshed out. We possibly could have ended up with real closure as well over "Shepard is in a pile of rubble somewhere. Now everyone...Headcannon your own ending!"

The approach that I would have taken for integrating Dark Matter:

1. The dark matter build up is happening, and it destabalizes stars, like we see in ME2.

2. The dark matter build up is caused by mass effect technology.

3. However, the Reapers do not exist to fight the dark matter build up. Instead, the build up is specifically designed into mass effect technology. It's a feature, not a flaw.

4. The reason for this? It's an extra trap on behalf of the Reapers. A safeguard, if you will. If any civilization ever finds a way to fight back agianst them effectively, causing the conflict with the Reapers to drag on, that civilization will find their stars slowly deterorating. The Reapers already know how to mitigate the build up, and do so every cycle. Holding this key gives them extra leverage against any civlization they try to harvest.

I'd also develop this part of the plot using the story between Miranda and her father:

1. Miranda's father is a bigwig at Eldfell-Ashland Energy

2. EAE has been aware of the dark matter build up side effect of mass effect techology for some time, as have the asari energy consortiums. All of them have been covering the matter up, out of fear of losing profits.

3. Miranda's father launched an unsuccessful program to find a way to mitigate the dark matter build up. His intent was for EAE to control the techology to do this, giving them economic power over the entire galaxy.

4. His efforts failed, costing EAE a great deal of money - and causing the corporate board to try to force him out of his position.

5. He joined with TIMs efforts to control the Reapers because TIM promised that he would reveal the Reapers secrets on dark matter clean up to him. The deal was for TIM to control the Reapers directly, giving humanity undisputed military control, while Miranda's father/EAE would control the secret to dark matter mitigation, giving their company economic control.

In the ending, you could choose to either destory the Reapers - knowing that the secret to reversing the dark matter build up will die with them - or control the Reapers, and presumably use them to reverse the build up, but also leaving open the question as to whether Shepard can really control the Reapers in the long run.

Just an idea I've been tossing around, albeit far from perfect. In my own head canon, the dark matter build up/Miranda's father thing still happens (it's the explanation for why he joins with TIM) but we don't find out about it in game.

[MrnDpty161]

Ironic that we are all probably talking about the ending from every angle possible far more in detail than what was presented as the final product, goes to show you how lacking the ending imagination was versus if they left it to a pool of positive fans who really wanted to see a conclusion that was satisfactory.

Would it kill someone to say, start a Kick-Start where fans donate into the making of a multi-pack ending for ME3? Use the ME2 Formula! Based on your actions, what you did in the game, how much time you put into it, and performance!. You can have a terrible ending for those wanting a little darkness in their life, a Middle-of-the-road ending where its so-so in what concluded, and an outright " happy " ME1 type of ending in which the cliche Hero saves the day and is seen embracing the girl ( or guy ) with the rising sun in the background as Harbinger's burning chassis is seen crashing into a building far off. Would that have been so bad?!?

[Benchpress610]

Chardonney wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

MrnDpty161 wrote...
stop playing where Mr. Sheild's attempts his last run to kill you off before its too late! --- I think that is where most people stop.

Everything up to actually meeting the Catalyst is tolerable. Wouldn't really want to lose the "Best seats in the house" scene. 

That is a wonderful scene, yes. Even Weekes thought that it shouldn't have gone beyond that:

"For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just…"


I kind a wish he would have finished that line. 

I’m sorry but for me that was as bad as the encounter with Shiny Blob. I mean Anderson’s death. I’m not against of Anderson dying per se, what bothers me the most is the way it was done. This goes to the core of the main failure that permeates the whole ending IMO: the main reason most of us feel unsatisfied with the way the game ended is that all of the sudden the writers took away from us that little device that makes a videogame a videogame: player control.
 
There is no way around the fact that Shepard killed Anderson. If we take those scenes as face value, Shepard pointed his gun at Anderson and pulled the trigger. We can argue until we are blue in the face that Shepard was under the control of the Reapers or TIM when he did it, and that is an entirely different discussion, but here is the thing: I most certainly DID NOT press the mouse left button. The game did it for me. I had to passively watch how my Shepard raised his gun and shot his friend and mentor.
 
We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

[CrimsonNephilim]

DWH1982 wrote...

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

At this point I would take the Dark Energy ending over the RGB endings. It might have worked out if it had a chance to get fleshed out. We possibly could have ended up with real closure as well over "Shepard is in a pile of rubble somewhere. Now everyone...Headcannon your own ending!"

The approach that I would have taken for integrating Dark Matter:

1. The dark matter build up is happening, and it destabalizes stars, like we see in ME2.

2. The dark matter build up is caused by mass effect technology.

3. However, the Reapers do not exist to fight the dark matter build up. Instead, the build up is specifically designed into mass effect technology. It's a feature, not a flaw.

4. The reason for this? It's an extra trap on behalf of the Reapers. A safeguard, if you will. If any civilization ever finds a way to fight back agianst them effectively, causing the conflict with the Reapers to drag on, that civilization will find their stars slowly deterorating. The Reapers already know how to mitigate the build up, and do so every cycle. Holding this key gives them extra leverage against any civlization they try to harvest.

I'd also develop this part of the plot using the story between Miranda and her father:

1. Miranda's father is a bigwig at Eldfell-Ashland Energy

2. EAE has been aware of the dark matter build up side effect of mass effect techology for some time, as have the asari energy consortiums. All of them have been covering the matter up, out of fear of losing profits.

3. Miranda's father launched an unsuccessful program to find a way to mitigate the dark matter build up. His intent was for EAE to control the techology to do this, giving them economic power over the entire galaxy.

4. His efforts failed, costing EAE a great deal of money - and causing the corporate board to try to force him out of his position.

5. He joined with TIMs efforts to control the Reapers because TIM promised that he would reveal the Reapers secrets on dark matter clean up to him. The deal was for TIM to control the Reapers directly, giving humanity undisputed military control, while Miranda's father/EAE would control the secret to dark matter mitigation, giving their company economic control.

In the ending, you could choose to either destory the Reapers - knowing that the secret to reversing the dark matter build up will die with them - or control the Reapers, and presumably use them to reverse the build up, but also leaving open the question as to whether Shepard can really control the Reapers in the long run.

Just an idea I've been tossing around, albeit far from perfect. In my own head canon, the dark matter build up/Miranda's father thing still happens (it's the explanation for why he joins with TIM) but we don't find out about it in game.

I like this plot 100 times more than what we originally got. They could have even kept the crucible concept or something like it where there was a solution to clean up the DE build up but the plans that had been in development over cycles were missing a vital compnent for it to work properly and it becomes part of your mission to figure out what that is.

It doesn't make any sense to heavily forshadow something like Dark Energy over 2 games just to have it magically disappear in the 3rd and alter the story so that the reapers are actually a race of sentient machines hell bent on exterminating organic life because they believe that we'll reach technological singularity. That whole idea alone has holes in it as the Reapers themselves are a type of technology that come around ever 50,000 years to exterminate organic life.

[CaIIisto]

^^ Wouldn't make a difference.

It's less a matter of resources and more a matter of policy. BW's policy appears to be one that will absolutely 100% NOT confirm any ending where Shepard DEFINITELY lives. That's why you'll never get clarity on the 'breathe' scene, and that's why you'll never get any epilogue containing Shepard, or any reunion with the rest of the crew and/or your LI.

The fact that a good number of people want it, is completely irrelevant. BW don't really care what people want, that much is obvious from the original botched endings, and then again, through the token appeasement 'Extended Cut' endings.

[MrnDpty161]

You could also make an argument that getting that ultimate good ending, would probably motivate people to HAVE participated more with the MP section of the game, because then it would have included not only MP prone players but also the SP folks ---- damn BioWare-EA, since your into numbers and profits, you missed a huge opportunity there.

[Chardonney]

Benchpress610 wrote...

We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

I just meant the scene. I do agree with you, that the way Anderson died was just despicable, not a way another hero should go down and yes, there should've been an option to save him.

[CaIIisto]

Benchpress610 wrote...
I’m sorry but for me that was as bad as the encounter with Shiny Blob. I mean Anderson’s death. I’m not against of Anderson dying per se, what bothers me the most is the way it was done. This goes to the core of the main failure that permeates the whole ending IMO: the main reason most of us feel unsatisfied with the way the game ended is that all of the sudden the writers took away from us that little device that makes a videogame a videogame: player control.
 
There is no way around the fact that Shepard killed Anderson. If we take those scenes as face value, Shepard pointed his gun at Anderson and pulled the trigger. We can argue until we are blue in the face that Shepard was under the control of the Reapers or TIM when he did it, and that is an entirely different discussion, but here is the thing: I most certainly DID NOT press the mouse left button. The game did it for me. I had to passively watch how my Shepard raised his gun and shot his friend and mentor.
 
We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

I generally agree re the point around 'lack of control'. I was a little more forgiving in that scene as I thought it obvious that Shepard wasn't in control of her/his actions at that point. That was my interpretation anyway. As such, the fact that I couldn't do anything to stop it from happening, didn't bother me. It did bother me afterwards though as soon as we go and have a sit-down with space casper. I wasn't being controlled at that point as far as I could tell, so why for the love of God couldn't I shoot the little tw*t in the face?!

Modifié par Bester76, 07 octobre 2012 - 03:57 .

[MrnDpty161]

Well there is this quasi-intellectual argument that having a typical boss battle wasn't needed.... So all of a sudden, an action-RPG doesn't need...what now? .... An action oriented ending? Really? You just threw out a device that is essential for game-play and a satisfaction that you completed a last step in the process of what is a playable game for....

......

A strange speach with a glowing entity that happens to have taken the shape of the child messing with Shepard's mind... right. Ok... Check please.

[CaIIisto]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

You could also make an argument that getting that ultimate good ending, would probably motivate people to HAVE participated more with the MP section of the game, because then it would have included not only MP prone players but also the SP folks ---- damn BioWare-EA, since your into numbers and profits, you missed a huge opportunity there.

Of course another means of forcing people down the MP route would be to say, not fix the datapad app......Oh.

[Benchpress610]

Chardonney wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

I just meant the scene. I do agree with you, that the way Anderson died was just despicable, not a way another hero should go down and yes, there should've been an option to save him.

Agreed, it was a beautiful and emotionally charged scene. But it was tainted with the knowledge that you were the one who, though unwillingly, pulled the trigger.

[CaIIisto]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

Well there is this quasi-intellectual argument that having a typical boss battle wasn't needed.... So all of a sudden, an action-RPG doesn't need...what now? .... An action oriented ending? Really? You just threw out a device that is essential for game-play and a satisfaction that you completed a last step in the process of what is a playable game for....

......

A strange speach with a glowing entity that happens to have taken the shape of the child messing with Shepard's mind... right. Ok... Check please.

Indeed. Mind-boggling that the final meaningful bit of combat we get in the entire game is good ol' Marauder Shields who takes about 3 shots to put down.....

[MrnDpty161]

Well I was just brainstorming on behalf of the dual company EA/BioWare's attraction for money, could have been fed even more so. Its just random ideas.

[Heimdall]

Chardonney wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

I just meant the scene. I do agree with you, that the way Anderson died was just despicable, not a way another hero should go down and yes, there should've been an option to save him.

...I actually thought the inability to save him gave the scene much more strength than it otherwise would have

I may disagree with a lot of folk on these forums as the endings didn't bother me one bit save for the relay explosions (Solved as of EC), but I think I might be in a majority as far as that scene is concerned, I was sniffling and tearing up as Anderson and Shepard looked down on wartorn Earth

[MrnDpty161]

In my opinion as well, perhaps the deeply wounding element that already put you in a squirming discomfort is the NPC-ifitcation of otherwise deeply written Characters from ME2 that were nailed into the background and reduced to holo-vids, 5 second cameo appearances, and in some cases --- " Twitter Deaths" which is just as bad. Why would you bother to make personal connections that were ending-specific for ME2 and then trash them all in ME3? Why... oh why...