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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What has been seen cannot be unseen. It haunts you for life. It never goes away. It will when I finish writing my own ending from Cronos on.

The first two games with DLC took 120 hrs for full plays. With no life, I had 11 of them, and that's 1320 hrs. I was hoping to be able to do 11 plays of ME3. I got through 1 and 1 more with the EC. In case you wonder why I still rage at the ending, that is why. The second time was easier, but I got the same sick feeling at the end. I won't play it again unless by some miracle they do an add on to the ending.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:24 .

[DWH1982]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...


I turned off my 360, put the game back in its case (I picked up the CE), put it on a shelf I haven't touched it since.

It's a shame you didn't play thorugh it a little more. ME3 has a lot of flaws that make it the weakest Mass Effect game, but I think it's still a good game compared to other things that are out there.

The Tuchanka missions alone make it worth playing. I think the whole krogan/genophage plot was closed almost without a flaw. The quarian/geth missions are also quite good, even if I dislike the direction they decided to go with the geth. I can ignore that problem, though, and still think that the quarian/geth missions, along with the Tuchanka missions, are some of the most brilliant in the franchise.

Combined with the need for resolution with my canon LI, those missions are why I refuse to ignore ME3 completely. I can just take what works, add head canon to fill in some of the stuff that feels incomplete, and ignore the endings (if I need to) and add in head canon again.

The problem I'm going to have is: What to do about the next ME game? I still like the franchise... but I'm not so sure I'm interested in a prequal, and I'm not sure how they can do a sequal.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm not interested in a prequel or mmo. They can do a sequel with Elephant Theory or by just setting it 500 yrs out in the future with everything repaired and no reapers around where the ME trilogy doesn't matter and just ignore synthesis.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:29 .

[CaIIisto]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What has been seen cannot be unseen. It haunts you for life. It never goes away. It will when I finish writing my own ending from Cronos on.

The first two games with DLC took 120 hrs for full plays. With no life, I had 11 of them, and that's 1320 hrs. I was hoping to be able to do 11 plays of ME3. I got through 1 and 1 more with the EC. In case you wonder why I still rage at the ending, that is why. The second time was easier, but I got the same sick feeling at the end. I won't play it again unless by some miracle they do an add on to the ending.

Well, BW can't please everyone. I'm sure that will make you feel a lot better.

Just a shame that they seem incapable of producing a game to please the majority these days.

[DWH1982]

Well, yeah, they're going to get complaints about what they do, no matter what it is.

The thing is - I can't remember anything else from any of the other games upsetting such a large portion of the fan base so much. I mean, the other two games weren't perfect, and perhaps we did tend to focus on the flaws too much, but none of the problems in the other two games nearly ruined the franchise for me.

[CaIIisto]

DWH1982 wrote...
The problem I'm going to have is: What to do about the next ME game? I still like the franchise... but I'm not so sure I'm interested in a prequal, and I'm not sure how they can do a sequal.

I adore the series. Absolutely love it. That being said, I've lost all faith in BW's ability to produce a game to the quality that we expect from them. It will kill me to do it, but once they've wrapped up the ME3 DLC then I think that'll be it for me. There are plenty of games out there, and I'd rather take a chance on some of those. BW games, just don't appear to be worth the investment (emotional & $$$) anymore.

[GreyLycanTrope]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

Wow...really?

I just...I don't even...

*smacks head on desk*

Never completing ME3 is looking like a wise choice on my part right now <_<

You never actually finished it?

Nope. Put the disc in the night of the midnight laucnh, got past Palaven and just stopped playing after that.

I was extremely spoiler friendly when it came to all the leaks for ME3 (from the scripts posted on Pastebin down to the footage uploaded to youtube from people who got copies from the Space Launc PR stunt), because I wanted to know what to expect from what many of us were hoping would be an amazing send off for Shepard and for this story arc of Mass Effect. By the time March 3, 2012 came around I was already fully aware of the "rumors" going around about the RGB endings.

I tried to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt that the endings weren't going to be what we thought, but when you have people who have actually gotten early copies of the game posting and uploading videos that they are what was being said, it's hard to argue.

I tried doing my cannon Femshep play-through and after Palaven I just gave up. I knew what was going to happen at the end. I hated it and they made no sense to do such a thing when we've spent over 100+ hours on this series just to get our control of what happens in the end ripped away from us and have to deal with Sparkle Brat.

I turned off my 360, put the game back in its case (I picked up the CE), put it on a shelf I haven't touched it since.

Sounds familiar though I went with the spoiler free route. Heard some grumbling about the ending being all sort of bad but decided to play through since I still had confidence in the team at that point and wanted to from my own opinion. So my canon femshep was not as fortunate as yours, sadly.

[CaIIisto]

DWH1982 wrote...

Well, yeah, they're going to get complaints about what they do, no matter what it is.

The thing is - I can't remember anything else from any of the other games upsetting such a large portion of the fan base so much. I mean, the other two games weren't perfect, and perhaps we did tend to focus on the flaws too much, but none of the problems in the other two games nearly ruined the franchise for me.

Thing is, how many fans have they already lost? Yes, they put out the EC, but realistically, how many copies were traded in before that came out?

Likewise, what about those that never played the original endings? The EC may seem like an improvment over the OE, but they're still poor. People who've never played the OE aren't going to appreciate that the EC is the lesser of two evils.

Plus, the last I saw, less than 50% of people who'd bought the game have yet to finish it. More complaints likely incoming once they do. If they do. 

Then there's the Wii-U users who'll get the game next year. How many Nintendo users are going to be happy with a depressing ending?

The complaining over ME3's ending is far from over I'd have thought.

[CrimsonNephilim]

Bester76 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...
The problem I'm going to have is: What to do about the next ME game? I still like the franchise... but I'm not so sure I'm interested in a prequal, and I'm not sure how they can do a sequal.

I adore the series. Absolutely love it. That being said, I've lost all faith in BW's ability to produce a game to the quality that we expect from them. It will kill me to do it, but once they've wrapped up the ME3 DLC then I think that'll be it for me. There are plenty of games out there, and I'd rather take a chance on some of those. BW games, just don't appear to be worth the investment (emotional & $$$) anymore.

Part of that seems to stem their coming under EA's ownership. EA has this odd drive to making all their games steer towards the CoD crowds. It's like they don't get there is a crowd of gamers out there that don't want nor care for the action-packed, shoot em dead, screaming your lungs out kind of games.

For many of us, the reason we got caught up in Mass Effect is because it ISN'T like those games. Yes, there are parts of the game that require us to go blast someone in the face, but the fighting wasn't the main attraction and sole reason we wanted to play the game. It was the story, the characters, and the choices we got to make to drive the story and mold it to the way we wanted it to go.

If you go back and play ME1 (before EA got hold of Bioware), you see the signifcant differences between the style of ME1 when compared to ME2 (when EA came into play). With ME1, combat wasn't a big driving force. Yes it was fun, but it wasn't the reason we played it. As I said, the story, characters, and choices were why we did the fighting parts. We wanted to see where the story was going and how our choices made a difference compared to others who were also playing the game.

Get in ME2, while yes it was still a fun game and made us lust for more after we completed it, the combat is heavier and the story drove us to more fighting. ME2 was still great, but the feel of the game is very different from ME1.

Edit: Grammar and spelling

Modifié par CrimsonNephilim, 07 octobre 2012 - 07:59 .

[CaIIisto]

EA are far from blameless I'll completely agree.

That being said, my major complaint against the game is predominantly to do with the ending(s). The blame for that shambles lies squarely with Hudson and Walters.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...
The problem I'm going to have is: What to do about the next ME game? I still like the franchise... but I'm not so sure I'm interested in a prequal, and I'm not sure how they can do a sequal.

I adore the series. Absolutely love it. That being said, I've lost all faith in BW's ability to produce a game to the quality that we expect from them. It will kill me to do it, but once they've wrapped up the ME3 DLC then I think that'll be it for me. There are plenty of games out there, and I'd rather take a chance on some of those. BW games, just don't appear to be worth the investment (emotional & $$$) anymore.

Part of that seems to stem their coming under EA's ownership. EA has this odd drive to making all their games steer towards the CoD crowds. It's like they don't get there is a crowd of gamers out there that don't want nor care for the action-packed, shoot em dead, screaming your lungs out kind of games.

For many of us, the reason we got caught up in Mass Effect is because it ISN'T like those games. Yes, there are parts of the game that require us to go blast someone in the face, but the fighting wasn't the main attraction and sole reason we wanted to play the game. It was the story, the characters, and the choices we got to make to drive the story and mold it to the way we wanted it to go.

If you go back and play ME1 (before EA got hold of Bioware), you see the signifcant differences between the style of ME1 when compared to ME2 (when EA came into play). With ME1, combat wasn't a big driving force. Yes it was fun, but it wasn't the reason we played it. As I said, the story, characters, and choices were why we did the fighting parts. We wanted to see where the story was going and how our choices made a difference compared to others who were also playing the game.

Get in ME2, while yes it was still a fun game and made us lust for more after we completed it, the combat is heavier and the story drove us to more fighting. ME2 was still great, but the feel of the game is very different from ME1.

Edit: Grammar and spelling

With 1 and 2 we wanted MORE after we finished. With 3 we don't. The first two were better written. They leave you wanting more. The third installment makes you want to shove it in a corner someplace. A great story IMO leaves you wanting more. A great performance leaves the audience wanting more.

[chemiclord]

Bester76 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Well, yeah, they're going to get complaints about what they do, no matter what it is.

The thing is - I can't remember anything else from any of the other games upsetting such a large portion of the fan base so much. I mean, the other two games weren't perfect, and perhaps we did tend to focus on the flaws too much, but none of the problems in the other two games nearly ruined the franchise for me.

Thing is, how many fans have they already lost? Yes, they put out the EC, but realistically, how many copies were traded in before that came out?

Likewise, what about those that never played the original endings? The EC may seem like an improvment over the OE, but they're still poor. People who've never played the OE aren't going to appreciate that the EC is the lesser of two evils.

Plus, the last I saw, less than 50% of people who'd bought the game have yet to finish it. More complaints likely incoming once they do. If they do. 

Then there's the Wii-U users who'll get the game next year. How many Nintendo users are going to be happy with a depressing ending?

The complaining over ME3's ending is far from over I'd have thought.

If a WiiU owner buys this game not knowing what is in store for them at this point... sorry, I have no sympathy for them.

[CaIIisto]

chemiclord wrote...
If a WiiU owner buys this game not knowing what is in store for them at this point... sorry, I have no sympathy for them.

I'd pay good money to see the Mario/Link brigade trying to wrap their head around deciding how best to die and/or screw over the galaxy! 

[CrimsonNephilim]

Bester76 wrote...

EA are far from blameless I'll completely agree.

That being said, my major complaint against the game is predominantly to do with the ending(s). The blame for that shambles lies squarely with Hudson and Walters.

I seriously wonder what Walters was thinking when he came up with the endings and why Hudson OK'ed them. I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to go with a Matrix Revolutions type of ending with the series, but surely they must have heard all the bad feedback and press Revolutions got, which begs the question: Why did they think that would be a good way to end the Mass Effect series?

[CaIIisto]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

EA are far from blameless I'll completely agree.

That being said, my major complaint against the game is predominantly to do with the ending(s). The blame for that shambles lies squarely with Hudson and Walters.

I seriously wonder what Walters was thinking when he came up with the endings and why Hudson OK'ed them. I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to go with a Matrix Revolutions type of ending with the series, but surely they must have heard all the bad feedback and press Revolutions got, which begs the question: Why did they think that would be a good way to end the Mass Effect series?

Well if you read the (allegedly fake) Weekes article on Penny Arcade, then it sounds like it was probably more to do with Hudson. Arrogance, pig-headedness, stupidity? All plausible theories it would seem. I still find the lack of peer review absolutely staggering.

[Benchpress610]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What has been seen cannot be unseen. It haunts you for life. It never goes away. It will when I finish writing my own ending from Cronos on.

The first two games with DLC took 120 hrs for full plays. With no life, I had 11 of them, and that's 1320 hrs. I was hoping to be able to do 11 plays of ME3. I got through 1 and 1 more with the EC. In case you wonder why I still rage at the ending, that is why. The second time was easier, but I got the same sick feeling at the end. I won't play it again unless by some miracle they do an add on to the ending.

^^This...although I'd welcome an ending retconing DLC where I can regain the feeling of "winning", the ME universe has lost it's luster to me.

[Benchpress610]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

Bester76 wrote...

EA are far from blameless I'll completely agree.

That being said, my major complaint against the game is predominantly to do with the ending(s). The blame for that shambles lies squarely with Hudson and Walters.

I seriously wonder what Walters was thinking when he came up with the endings and why Hudson OK'ed them. I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to go with a Matrix Revolutions type of ending with the series, but surely they must have heard all the bad feedback and press Revolutions got, which begs the question: Why did they think that would be a good way to end the Mass Effect series?

Right, one thing is for sure: Unless they come clean and disclose how and by whom the original crap ending got approved in the game, I will be very skeptical of anything that Mac Walters and/or Casey Hudson are associated with.

[3DandBeyond]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Chardonney wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

We should’ve have the chance to fight to save our friend, and depending on our actions, paragon-renegade score or EMS be successful or not in the challenge.

I just meant the scene. I do agree with you, that the way Anderson died was just despicable, not a way another hero should go down and yes, there should've been an option to save him.

...I actually thought the inability to save him gave the scene much more strength than it otherwise would have

I may disagree with a lot of folk on these forums as the endings didn't bother me one bit save for the relay explosions (Solved as of EC), but I think I might be in a majority as far as that scene is concerned, I was sniffling and tearing up as Anderson and Shepard looked down on wartorn Earth

The choices at the end render both Anderson and TIM's deaths meaningless, contrived, and just plain bad.  Except that they point to one thing-both control and destroy end in death (yes, a metaphor, ugh) so synthesis is the choice, apparently.  Anderson dies in futility (you are forced to kill a friend) advocating destroy.  It's futile because the conflict will return (double ugh).  TIM dies in futility (he could never assume control) advocating control.  That's futile because control consumes those who try.  I think there's also a reason why Shepard is forced to kill Anderson with no choice, because it's the writers saying fighting against the control of indoctrination, or the power of control is all but impossible, so doing the opposite of it means you must kill friends.  No choice.  But, in control it shows Shepard has a choice.  Ooooh, now it's getting better.  You don't even have to kill bad people.  You can kill bad people, or you can let them kill themselves.  Synthesis means you only have to kill yourself - and why wouldn't you do that after seeing what kind of a jerky thing you just did?

The real point is (getting beyond metaphor which I think could be there), if you choose control then the fight you and Anderson both had with TIM was totally stupid and both of them died for no reason at all.  If you choose synthesis then both of them died for no reason at all-neither of them wanted that in reality (even if TIM appeared ot want it in some ways), and if you choose destroy you may tacitly be doing what Anderson would have wanted, but you are doing to the geth and EDI what you just did to Anderson, and this time you aren't even being forced to do it. 

I loved the talk Anderson and Shepard had, but Shepard didn't even seem to care that s/he just killed Anderson.

And regarding all the comments about the kid.  I can't stress enough how bad it is to end a story this way.  Stories feature conflict or they are unemotional and uninteresting.  Conflict creates emotion.  Emotion creates a bond between reader/player and story.  You do not stop that emotion, the action, the conflict at the very end of a story.  The kid is so much more appropriate for an epilog than for a way to resolve conflict.

He would have worked far more as a way to explain the reapers and the events if he had been there AFTER the conflict was all but resolved.  Say the galaxy had almost destroyed all reapers or if the galaxy was about to be destroyed by the reapers.  But he should not be there to resolve the central conflict.  He could have been put there to explain (say the reapers are about to be destroyed), that he has controlled them all along and created them.  And then he give the reason for their creation-the choice at that point could be to destroy him in disagreeing with him or saving him, because you agree with him.  Or the choices could even exist as they are, but as ways to deal with him and to prevent him trying to find solutions for a problem you either agree exists or you think does not exist.

Alternatively, again the kid could be part of a the current resolution of the conflict but only if there is clear conflict with him.  And in a game there needs to be player action at the end, not a random button press every 2 minutes.

I'm not saying a contrived boss fight is the be all/end all, but it beats a contrived quasi boss conversation every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[3DandBeyond]

Bester76 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What has been seen cannot be unseen. It haunts you for life. It never goes away. It will when I finish writing my own ending from Cronos on.

The first two games with DLC took 120 hrs for full plays. With no life, I had 11 of them, and that's 1320 hrs. I was hoping to be able to do 11 plays of ME3. I got through 1 and 1 more with the EC. In case you wonder why I still rage at the ending, that is why. The second time was easier, but I got the same sick feeling at the end. I won't play it again unless by some miracle they do an add on to the ending.

Well, BW can't please everyone. I'm sure that will make you feel a lot better.

Just a shame that they seem incapable of producing a game to please the majority these days.

The problem isn't only in retroactively trying to please those they didn't.  It's the fact that they needlessly created this divide.  Anyone could have foreseen that if you leave the hero to an ambiguous end, you will create animosity.  But even that if you can excuse it (I'm sorry I can't-given all of the resources available and fan feedback from all over the place, no one could possibly believe this would not ****** off a huge section of fans), the outcry over the original endings should have been a wake up call, but there were even tweets where a dev said they didn't know fans wanted to see a reunion.  900 plus pages of their own "listening" stickied thread disagree with them.   

A lot of gamers these days don't have a lot of money to burn.  Abuse them by not logically following through with internal promises that exist in the game and that money will go elsewhere.  It's economics.  And especially when times are rough, people want something that uplifts.  This too is a no-brainer.  You'd really have to have no clue about human nature to understand that people need uplifting things right now.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 07 octobre 2012 - 10:22 .

[BearlyHere]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

What has been seen cannot be unseen. It haunts you for life. It never goes away. It will when I finish writing my own ending from Cronos on.

The first two games with DLC took 120 hrs for full plays. With no life, I had 11 of them, and that's 1320 hrs. I was hoping to be able to do 11 plays of ME3. I got through 1 and 1 more with the EC. In case you wonder why I still rage at the ending, that is why. The second time was easier, but I got the same sick feeling at the end. I won't play it again unless by some miracle they do an add on to the ending.

I was really struck by how fast people I knew who had started playing before me got through it. My first thought  "Dudes, did you stop to eat or use the bathroom?" My second thought was that here was another game like DA2, where we were paying full price for 2/3 of a game, with Sebastien and his quest obviously culled from the game.

I played two of my Sheps, one a fem paragon, and one a male renegade, to compare the two. I held my nose and did enough MP to get my assets up enough for the best available ending. Then I started a new character to see what players who haven't played 1 and 2 miss out on, which was quite a bit.

Now it sits on the shelf while I wait for someone at Bioware or better yet, EA,  to wake up and realize we're not going away. If you think about the length of the SP DLC released so far, and those to come, added in they would make 3 about the length of 2. Now I wonder if Leviathan was also culled from the OC to be used as DLC, with a few retcon scenes added to try to make Starbrat make sense. 

Modifié par BearlyHere, 07 octobre 2012 - 09:52 .

[PinkysPain]

Bester76 wrote...
Just a shame that they seem incapable of producing a game to please the majority these days.

And it was all so completely unnecessary ... this wasn't DA2 where they didn't have enough time, ME3 was rushed a little but in the same time they used to give us the starchild they could have given us an emotionally satisfying ending with conventional victory through the MacGuffin weakening the reapers.

There was no good reason for all this other than stroking Mac Walter's ego ... how did a producer not stand up at some point and say "NOPE!". As I've said before the great Ripley Scott decided at the end of Alien to just end it standard Slasher style with a bad ending ... and the producers had to come in and prevent him from making a 100 million dollar mistake.

At Bioware not only didn't they prevent the MacOpocalypse, but they still don't seem to be ready to admit to themselves the magnitude of the error they made. Now it's nowhere near the scale of preventing Aliens to ever be made, but Bioware easily burned millions of dollars of good will with that ending. Both by essentially and unnecessarily murdering the universe and by making their future games a harder sell with their existing audience (after DA2 already did the same thing).

[Chardonney]

BearlyHere wrote...

I was really struck by how fast people I knew who had started playing before me got through it. My first thought  "Dudes, did you stop to eat or use the bathroom?"

I know what you mean. My sister started playing before me (I was busy with work) and when she said after awhile that she was done, I was like "Wait... wait... What??? Already? You're joking, right?" This whole game is like one big forced speedrun from the start.

[3DandBeyond]

Chardonney wrote...

BearlyHere wrote...

I was really struck by how fast people I knew who had started playing before me got through it. My first thought  "Dudes, did you stop to eat or use the bathroom?"

I know what you mean. My sister started playing before me (I was busy with work) and when she said after awhile that she was done, I was like "Wait... wait... What??? Already? You're joking, right?" This whole game is like one big forced speedrun from the start.

I think the only things that slow you down are the body scanner on the Normandy and slow doors, and then the conduit.  I also think there's the dialogue that you have to leave and come back to in order to get the full conversation.

And really it's not like you have a lot of dialogue to go through with characters-you have 2 basic choices.

I actually think Leviathan forces some longer play on you by making you repeatedly go back to the lab-that really could have been about a 20 minute DLC (maybe more but it didn't have to take as long as it did).

[MrnDpty161]

I think what also made it worse for everyone was the purely and obviously false advertising that was launched for this game non-stop. Alien ships of all races soaring across the earth's atmosphere fighting reaper enemies. Shepard and Ash hitting the ground with what looks like an entire brigade of Maco's and infantry, leaping into the air to attack beasts 10x the size of him .... allll that nonsense.... and you really didn't ever feel like you were in such a thing. Never saw it. Judging from these posts, I'm assuming I'm correct in saying that, what ever this company decides to do with not only the next Mass Effect but it also has bled into Dragon Age as well, in that, everyone is going to stop and wait. Their going to wait for reviews, not from commercial journalists but regular fans --- wait a week or two ---- see if the ending is horrible --- and then purchase the game.

Sorry BioWare/EA --- you done muddied the community pool. The confidence level and expectation has dropped to new lows.....and it is your fault.

[CaIIisto]

I actually had DAO, DAO:A, and DA2 lined up on my playlist once I'd finished ME3 - Fortunately, I didn't actually buy any of them ahead of time. As soon as I'd gone through the endings, I just lost all interest and ditched that plan.