6432 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

@ CitizenThom: Heh. Yeah, as long as you pass the EMS threshold for your chosen ending it doesn't much matter what else you do. Except the genophage, and Rannoch if you've got a bad ME2 save or no save.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 août 2012 - 04:38 .

[AlanC9]

Eloise K wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I don't think you're using "nihilism" correctly. ME3 isn't any more nihilistic than the Hyperion Cantos were.

How would you define the fautly logic of the Catalyst? Or the lack of thought that Shepard shows when choosing those three options if not something very similar to an abrupt moral decadence where human value counts nothing? Or mainly on a metanarrative perspective, how would you define Walters' attempts?
The Hyperion Cantos weren't nihilistic, but the ending of Hyperion and to some extent to The rise of Endymion are expected, are something that you, as a reader, can easily foresee.

You expected Gladstone to blow the farcaster network? At what point?

As for nihilism, faulty logic isn't nihilism. And my Sheps didn't have any lack of thought there; since I'm the guy doing that thinking I'm in a position to know. And as a metanarrative we've got a story where Shepard saves the galaxy and ends the Reaper threat; that's hugely significant action by the hero. It's only nihilistic if you think the Catalyst was right all along and pick Destroy anyway. Or pick Refuse.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 août 2012 - 04:49 .

[RenegonSQ]

Has Prestley or anyone else responded to this?

[TheConstantOne]

Great post, OP. I hope that Bioware does take a look at what you've written. You have captured the heart and soul of the issue at hand.

Making DLC that both allows us to further explore the characters of the universe and allow us to create a better result from the end choices is all that we ask for. And since such DLC is a likely money maker, I can't see a reason for them not to do it.

[3DandBeyond]

drayfish wrote...

In any case: you've made your point, surely?  Objection noted.  You have every right to feel that way, and you have expressed your viewpoint repeatedly.

As for Bioware, they will respond in the manner they see fit.  They will hear the opinions of their fans (including you) and they will weight it against their own judgement.

No one should be berrating others to fall into line.  People have the right to ask Bioware to consider adding more endings; people can express their opinion that it is not necessary.  But ultimately it is their choice - just as it was their choice to have chosen to 'make sense' of that ending with which you were at one point so furious.  They didn't have to clarify anything to you, but they chose to of their own free will.

This is exactly it.  I was not trying to assault anyone's sensibilities.  My personal feeling is this: had I been happy with the endings and then read that others were not, I would try to understand what they are saying.  And even if I didn't agree with them, I'd still believe they have every right to ask for something that works for them.  In fact, I'd support the effort, because if I like a game, I want everyone to like it and I want it to succeed wildly so that company that made it will make more.  Furthermore, if I was not that in love with the ending myself, I'd not vehemently disagree with the person for speaking up. 

I'm not asking for others to agree with me-I'm expressing my opinion.  The fact that many agree means there is an issue here.  The fact that I'm not asking anyone to give up endings that they've come to love is also to the point.  I was being constructive and not trying to take anything away from anyone, but merely asking if Bioware could at long last really give this some thought and try and understand what I and others like me are saying. 

I've had my fair share of unkind words here for Bioware, but I thought I'd say what I do really feel about all this.  I do want more ME games or ME type games, but right now given what seems to be the wisdom they have decided to use in all this, I just couldn't trust them to make a game I'd like.  I know they have it in them.  I just think they're stuck and we've been stuck too.  We're like 2 relatives that don't want to speak because of some childish issue and one of us has to extend a hand or a thought.  I'm extending hand and an olive branch to Bioware.  I'm asking them to please listen to me and maybe many that feel as I do.  And I'm asking them to please talk to us.  We've been fans and many of us want to be again.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, I'm pleading with Bioware.

[3DandBeyond]

devSin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Yeah, I remember. I'm wondering when the wasteland idea came up, though.

Final Hours includes the flowchart they had for the plot calling out that the Crucible will cause a galactic dark age.

Something that was there for the entire team to see, I'll add, since you like to promote the idea that nobody had the same idea about what the story was.

I have explained this to AlanC9 and even put the link to a video of it in a thread in reply to a post he made-it was a comment in February that Mac Walters said when asked if there would be any post ME3 DLC.  He said no because the galaxy would be a wasteland and no one would want to play in that.  And I explained the Final Hours app flowchart, and I also explained the Desperate Measures codex that still exists.

[3DandBeyond]

zambot wrote...

Fans to Bioware: Next time it's 4th and goal, just kick the field goal.

+10

[Daryslash]

I agree.

[3DandBeyond]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Great post, OP. I hope that Bioware does take a look at what you've written. You have captured the heart and soul of the issue at hand.

Making DLC that both allows us to further explore the characters of the universe and allow us to create a better result from the end choices is all that we ask for. And since such DLC is a likely money maker, I can't see a reason for them not to do it.

Thank you.  I think that such DLC would be a money maker and would make amends-it would be a real chance for both sides to deal with it.

[Bushido Effect]

I expect to see more ending whiners even 12 months from now. Sigh. Time to move on.

And to a lesser, but related extent- Time to let IT go. Shepards trilogy is over. Move on. I have. Other exciting games on the horizon this and next year.

[I_eat_unicorns]

 If they can't make an alternate ending dlc that this trilogy deserves, thehn they can at least answer some major questions like: 

- 
Why was the ending so bad to begin with? 
- Why would there be an option to control the reapers when 2 seconds ago we shot the illusive man about the idea?-
- Why would an option for synthesis be included when it goes against the mass effect lore of diversity?

[tyrvas]

@ OP, where can I sign this plea.

[VettoRyouzou]

Great post, sadly I feel it will land on deaf ears.

I plan to give bioware a shot, I'll get each DLC and see if it shapes up, if the happy ending unfolds threw DLC I shall be over joyed.

But if they are set in stone in this ending, and if in the end it doesn't change well.. I can respect there artistic integrity.

In turn they can respect I will not buy games I feel in the end will not live up to satafaction.

I can't change there minds it true, But I also don't have to buy there games.

[I_eat_unicorns]

Bushido Effect wrote...

I expect to see more ending whiners even 12 months from now. Sigh. Time to move on.

And to a lesser, but related extent- Time to let IT go. Shepards trilogy is over. Move on. I have. Other exciting games on the horizon this and next year.

It's just from the recent leviathan dlc that some fans are worried in the direction the me universe is heading as well as remembering how horrid the ending is. During the original PR fiasco, most people wanted an entirely different ending, not a clarification on the original ones. Now that most people during that time left this site after the ec dlc, the people remaining are avid fans of the series. I'm hoping that the least we can get from Bioware are some answers to the endings as to why they were so bad to begin with, since they don't have to deal with the huge pressure from the PR fiasco.

[detbasketball13]

Godspeed Op

[Bushido Effect]

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

Bushido Effect wrote...

I expect to see more ending whiners even 12 months from now. Sigh. Time to move on.

And to a lesser, but related extent- Time to let IT go. Shepards trilogy is over. Move on. I have. Other exciting games on the horizon this and next year.

It's just from the recent leviathan dlc that some fans are worried in the direction the me universe is heading as well as remembering how horrid the ending is. During the original PR fiasco, most people wanted an entirely different ending, not a clarification on the original ones. Now that most people during that time left this site after the ec dlc, the people remaining are avid fans of the series. I'm hoping that the least we can get from Bioware are some answers to the endings as to why they were so bad to begin with, since they don't have to deal with the huge pressure from the PR fiasco.

Interesting that you mention LEV DLC.  What happened?  I didn't get it yet. someday.  What abou the direction?  You can give me spoilers I don't mind.

[I_eat_unicorns]

Bushido Effect wrote...

I_eat_unicorns wrote...

Bushido Effect wrote...

I expect to see more ending whiners even 12 months from now. Sigh. Time to move on.

And to a lesser, but related extent- Time to let IT go. Shepards trilogy is over. Move on. I have. Other exciting games on the horizon this and next year.

It's just from the recent leviathan dlc that some fans are worried in the direction the me universe is heading as well as remembering how horrid the ending is. During the original PR fiasco, most people wanted an entirely different ending, not a clarification on the original ones. Now that most people during that time left this site after the ec dlc, the people remaining are avid fans of the series. I'm hoping that the least we can get from Bioware are some answers to the endings as to why they were so bad to begin with, since they don't have to deal with the huge pressure from the PR fiasco.

Interesting that you mention LEV DLC.  What happened?  I didn't get it yet. someday.  What abou the direction?  You can give me spoilers I don't mind.

 

[Archonsg]

Bushido Effect wrote...

Interesting that you mention LEV DLC.  What happened?  I didn't get it yet. someday.  What abou the direction?  You can give me spoilers I don't mind.

Essentially you learned that the first reaper was Harbinger. You meet what's left of the race that created the AI, originally to protect all life against machines at all costs but that AI went insane or because it is an AI, could not accept life as "chaos" and needed to impose "order" that became the "Reaper solution."

Also, said race (for those of you old enough, think back to Star Control and the Ur-Quan) are telepathic slavers. They Dominated all other races through mental takeover. Those they cannot domninate, or enslave, they destroy. (now if this isn't the perfect setup for the "next uber bad guy" for ME4, I don't know what is. )

Shepard learns about them and went looking for them in hopes to find a way to stop the reapers. Which btw, there is but the Leviathans won't or can't share.

Leviathan ends with a few more war assets, 2 lines with the Starbrat, and no real change to the current EC ending.

Things of note.
The Leviathans it seems, were able to defeat reaper forces, even capital class dreadnaughts simply by "switching" them off via telepathic attacks against a Reaper mind. So, we know now that Reaper computing and processing has an organic component.

This could have been the "key" to win "conventionally" but... No, I guess it's too much to ask for right?

[a load of stanton]

+1

[shepdog77]

Waaaaahhhhhh Waaaaaaaahhhhhh Waaaaaaahhhhhh

That's all I see in this thread.

[Calamity]

Captain McBuck wrote...

Dude, this happens in real life all the time.

Battle of Thermopylae.
Battle of Hastings.
Battle of Trefalgar.
Battle of Kursk On the Eastern Front
D-Day Operation Overlord.
The Tet Offensive.
Battle of East Pararall.

History is filled with examples where one battle has turned the face of a war around  IF anything the main focus of ME1 and ME2 was that the reapers are not gods. . there are many reasons to change refuse, there are many not too. but this really isn't one of them. actually  it would have been a great opening for BW to show that our strenght comes from our diversity and freedom, Hell Paragon and Renegade Shep even says this, we fight because we choose to and we are better because we are different and from our differnces in unity comes strength.   Javik even says that in his cycle there was no rallying cry, no final battle. the Reapers had already broken his race at the start of the war before he was even born.

Hackett even says that the Reapers have focused the bulk of there forces around Earth, if we could break them at Earth forcing a Reaper Retreat, then it would become a war of attrition and History is also filled with examples where lesser equiped, lesser trained units  have overcome a numerical and techniogical advantage, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Vietnam, The Ottoman Invasion of Baltics, The Organics are much better set up to fight a war of Atrrition since y'know we don't have to grind up the population of a planet into Reaper Chow to replace our losses.

I've said it before but all the problems with the ending, even the Crucible all come down to the Starchild and his Full Retard mode. All of the choices even the Destroy are insturments of his wil and all serve his purpose because as it stands right now even in destroy you genocide all Synthetic life and fulfil his goal of "Preserving us from Synthetics" even if it means killing the Geth who y'know you might have saved on Rannoch, just like how Synthisis invalidates your choice over the Genophage. All of  the ending choices are morally banktrupt, its a case of "picking one which screws the galaxy the least!"

people have gone on about the ending being a hard choice. its not,  Shooting Anderson and letting The Illusive Man live and take control of the reapers to uplift humanity  is a hard choice, Asking EDI to become the new Reaper AI knowing it will break Jokers Heart is a hard choice,, Asking Billions of people to fight against a cosmic horror to the last man standing  is a hard choice.

[Massa FX]

Devs are in Seattle @ PAX

[KevShep]

Bioware has made the worst game developer of all time in my book.

Funny, they used to be number 2 for best dev behind Bethesda.

Modifié par KevShep, 31 août 2012 - 07:47 .