6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Warrior Craess wrote...

hmm you must not be paying attention to the levi DLC.... the "intelligence" was created before the Reapers. Therefor the SC is not in fact a reaper. He did create them as his solution to the problem. Inevitably the reapers should rebel against the star child (by his logic)

And apparently you didn't pay attention to the Catalyst, because his very next line is 'but I found a way to prevent that.'

[robertthebard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I absolutely agree with you on this.  Anyone who bought Leviathan has pretty much surrendered their right to complain about the endings.  If you were complaining about ME3 before and bought Leviathan anyway, then you are a weakling.  Don't even try to rationalize it.  You are a sucker and you gave in.

That's pretty dumb.

You can easily like ME3 as a whole without liking the ending, and purchasing Leviathan can be justified entirely on the enjoyment of the parts of the game that weren't the ending. There is no standard that says you can only purchase a DLC if you like everything about the base game.

That was a much more polite version of the last 4 posts that I had to backspace out of in response to this.  It's amazing how many feel justified in telling somebody what they can or cannot like/dislike and so how they should spend their money.

[Almostfaceman]

Huh, agree with the OP.

Interesting that people haven't stopped asking Bioware to pull their head out. 

[Gogzilla]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Huh, agree with the OP.

Interesting that people haven't stopped asking Bioware to pull their head out. 

They shoved their own head so far up up their own.
They have no idea where Bioware had its head.

All people really see is their own BS

[Linksys17]

Honestly the ending sucked but what killed me3 for me was stripping the few RPG elements from me2. me3 just felt like a huge demo where Bioware was showcasing their new combat

[Warrior Craess]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

hmm you must not be paying attention to the levi DLC.... the "intelligence" was created before the Reapers. Therefor the SC is not in fact a reaper. He did create them as his solution to the problem. Inevitably the reapers should rebel against the star child (by his logic)

And apparently you didn't pay attention to the Catalyst, because his very next line is 'but I found a way to prevent that.'

hah by harvesting all live every 50K years? So we're once again back to "Yo dawg...."
Or maybe you mean it's ultimate solution you know the one that can't be forced, that Shepard is actually going to force on everyone else in the galaxy? 

Ahh yes the only solution.. the "best" solution... synthesis.  the most obnoxious handwavium space magic, to ever befall mankind (yes I'm indulging in hyperbol). 

I could buy into control (not sure I buy into the disintergration of  the body, but it's not a game ruiner), I can definetly buy into destroy (but seriously shooting a pipe destroys all synthetics? WTF?). Those at least make sense, and are basicially the two choises embodied by shepard and TIM. 

Synthesis? sorry but there isn't enough dark energy in this universe or the next trillion universes to convert organic matter to inorganic (and vice versa). It's so completely inconsistant with in game physics that it alone ruins the game for me. Add that to being forced to listen to an AI that has wose logic than my 7 year old neice? 

[Hudathan]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Synthesis? sorry but there isn't enough dark energy in this universe or the next trillion universes to convert organic matter to inorganic (and vice versa). It's so completely inconsistant with in game physics that it alone ruins the game for me. Add that to being forced to listen to an AI that has wose logic than my 7 year old neice?

Is there a specific amount of dark energy that would make synthesis possible that only you are privy to?

[Dragoonlordz]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Huh, agree with the OP.

Interesting that people haven't stopped asking Bioware to pull their head out. 

The number of people asking for new endings, asking for conventional victory, asking for walking off into the sunset with their LI or cutting out the previous endings is a tiny fraction of what it once was pre-EC and maybe thats because they "pulled their heads out" to use your phrase and realise it is not going to happen. At some point you will have to realise the group meaning the ones who were bitter about the endings, still bitter after EC are vastly smaller in number now. I am not even going into minorities or majorities because neither side can prove to be either but I can say EC was enough for a vast amount of people who did not like the original endings plus the amount of whining these days on here is now from very select small but vocal group of individuals at this stage in comparrison to what it was pre-EC.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 août 2012 - 07:55 .

[CitizenThom]

There are plenty of real posters to argue against, no need to argue against that staw man over there.

Which is to say (again, as other posters have already clarified this, but you can't let go of your straw man) people aren't demanding a happy ending, they're asking for an ending that's connected to the rest of the game at a minimum (war assets affecting final outcome), and connected to the rest of the series ideally (past decisions affecting the final outcome).

[Dean_the_Young]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

hmm you must not be paying attention to the levi DLC.... the "intelligence" was created before the Reapers. Therefor the SC is not in fact a reaper. He did create them as his solution to the problem. Inevitably the reapers should rebel against the star child (by his logic)

And apparently you didn't pay attention to the Catalyst, because his very next line is 'but I found a way to prevent that.'

hah by harvesting all live every 50K years? So we're once again back to "Yo dawg...."
Or maybe you mean it's ultimate solution you know the one that can't be forced, that Shepard is actually going to force on everyone else in the galaxy? 

Ahh yes the only solution.. the "best" solution... synthesis.  the most obnoxious handwavium space magic, to ever befall mankind (yes I'm indulging in hyperbol). 

I could buy into control (not sure I buy into the disintergration of  the body, but it's not a game ruiner), I can definetly buy into destroy (but seriously shooting a pipe destroys all synthetics? WTF?). Those at least make sense, and are basicially the two choises embodied by shepard and TIM. 

Synthesis? sorry but there isn't enough dark energy in this universe or the next trillion universes to convert organic matter to inorganic (and vice versa). It's so completely inconsistant with in game physics that it alone ruins the game for me. Add that to being forced to listen to an AI that has wose logic than my 7 year old neice? 

And?

None of what you just posted in any way corrects your failure of understanding about the Catalyst's logic about Creators and Created. In fact, it has nothing to do with it.

[Dean_the_Young]

robertthebard wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

I absolutely agree with you on this.  Anyone who bought Leviathan has pretty much surrendered their right to complain about the endings.  If you were complaining about ME3 before and bought Leviathan anyway, then you are a weakling.  Don't even try to rationalize it.  You are a sucker and you gave in.

That's pretty dumb.

You can easily like ME3 as a whole without liking the ending, and purchasing Leviathan can be justified entirely on the enjoyment of the parts of the game that weren't the ending. There is no standard that says you can only purchase a DLC if you like everything about the base game.

That was a much more polite version of the last 4 posts that I had to backspace out of in response to this.  It's amazing how many feel justified in telling somebody what they can or cannot like/dislike and so how they should spend their money.

That was polite?

I must be improving of late.

[saracen16]

CitizenThom wrote...

There are plenty of real posters to argue against, no need to argue against that staw man over there.

Which is to say (again, as other posters have already clarified this, but you can't let go of your straw man) people aren't demanding a happy ending, they're asking for an ending that's connected to the rest of the game at a minimum (war assets affecting final outcome), and connected to the rest of the series ideally (past decisions affecting the final outcome).

And how, pray tell, do you want to achieve this? The Mass Effect universe is too big to have every single storyline become involved in a singular decision. Life is a journey, not a destination, and clearly, Mass Effect is meant to be the former. That being said, the final choice does tie in a major theme that was presented right at the outset in Mass Effect 1: the conflict between organics and synthetics.

As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

[Kamfrenchie]

Hudathan wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

Synthesis? sorry but there isn't enough dark energy in this universe or the next trillion universes to convert organic matter to inorganic (and vice versa). It's so completely inconsistant with in game physics that it alone ruins the game for me. Add that to being forced to listen to an AI that has wose logic than my 7 year old neice?

Is there a specific amount of dark energy that would make synthesis possible that only you are privy to?

the simplest fix would be to come up with a half decentexplanation for this new DNA, then have the change occur slowly and be mad by the reapers or something.

I and I think many people can buy into some DNA rewriting if it takes a while, happens in a lab/clinic and is extremely omplex, risky an traumatizing.
Not the stupid shockwave of instat rewriting and everyone lives hapily ever after .


Then ofc, there i the issue that synthetics don't have DNA

[Kamfrenchie]

OP, I'm afraid Bioware is beyond redemption at this point.

They still haven't apologized for betrying our trust with their lies, they afaik don't even bother to defend their ending/vision against criticism, besides the "we believe in the team's vison", I havet seen them tell us why the ending made sense. any other developper would be glad to clarify their story on their forum

I have no hope left for ME3, the only hope left i culd have would be if they made a ME4 thhat would retcon ME3 or ignore it, and have a different writer team.
I

But I'm afraid the old bioware we knew is probably dead, and what remains is a shadow of their former self, a mere husk (pun intended). That had to be expected when they sold themselves to EA.

But there are plety ofgood devs out there, I place some ofmy trust in Obsidian. Alpha protocol was great fom a storytelling and player choice/impact perspective.

What saaddens me is that even those who ejoy the endigs dn't seem to realise bioware lied to them and abused their trust, or they aren't willing to hold them accountable

[3DandBeyond]

saracen16 wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

There are plenty of real posters to argue against, no need to argue against that staw man over there.

Which is to say (again, as other posters have already clarified this, but you can't let go of your straw man) people aren't demanding a happy ending, they're asking for an ending that's connected to the rest of the game at a minimum (war assets affecting final outcome), and connected to the rest of the series ideally (past decisions affecting the final outcome).

And how, pray tell, do you want to achieve this? The Mass Effect universe is too big to have every single storyline become involved in a singular decision. Life is a journey, not a destination, and clearly, Mass Effect is meant to be the former. That being said, the final choice does tie in a major theme that was presented right at the outset in Mass Effect 1: the conflict between organics and synthetics.

As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

Yes, life is a journey, but I believe I was playing a video game.  And many journeys can be terrific but have horrifying conclusions-they end up being journeys you never wish to take again.  ME was now meant only to be a journey?  Since when?  All along that journey, every single rational person in the game said they wanted to kick reaper butt-as in kill the reapers.  It's probably a good thing Shepard dies in the 2 endings that don't at least superficially achieve that, because everyone would be yelling at him/her asking how s/he could be so stupid.  You read a book to get to the end.  You watch a movie to see what happens.  You play videogames to win.  The ending is an integral part of the story and as such it must be what resolves the thing your hero has been trying to do.  The ending must answer the relevant questions in a way that resounds as a part of the story that came before, it's the "I knew it" moment.  It is not the place to introduce brand new concepts unless they flow from some understood or needed thing.

Still and all the endings are what they are.  I'm not asking everyone to give up the endings they seem so smitten with.  I'm told I'm being selfish because I don't want anything changed for the people that like what they have, so what do you call others that say that those of us who abhor these immoral (IMO) choices should not even ask for BW to take another look and rethink it?  I don't understand the reasoning behind someone saying that BW should not add anything to the endings ever-why not, if you never have to see it and if you don't have to play it?  How does it hurt you?

I have over 10k in EMS-why?  I only need 3100 for all the endings including the "best".

[CitizenThom]

saracen16 wrote...
As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

There is no difference in outcome between doing half the missions or all of the missions, the crucible still gets built. Earth still gets assaulted.

[Pedro Costa]

I thank the OP for writing and creating this topic as I share the same feelings.

[Dragoonlordz]

CitizenThom wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

There is no difference in outcome between doing half the missions or all of the missions, the crucible still gets built. Earth still gets assaulted.

Assets are more than just a number to increase. Each asset gives information, lore, descriptions and detail if bother to read them. That makes them worth getting regardless of number attached.

[Cainne Chapel]

Linksys17 wrote...

Honestly the ending sucked but what killed me3 for me was stripping the few RPG elements from me2. me3 just felt like a huge demo where Bioware was showcasing their new combat

Conversation choice isnt a strictly RPG element by the by.  To some it is and to some it isnt as RPGs have long existed in gamng since before choice in what to say and any given time.

But what few RPG elements did they remove?  I would argue most feel ME3 has MORE Rpg elements than two did on tob of having better combat.

[Cainne Chapel]

CitizenThom wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

There is no difference in outcome between doing half the missions or all of the missions, the crucible still gets built. Earth still gets assaulted.

Thats like saying theres no difference in the outcome of ME1 or ME2 either, as they still finish in roughly the same spots.

You still face saren and still have to stop the collectors.

So whats the point of arguing that?

[DnA SLAYTANIC]

Hope is always strongest in the darkness and well... I can't even see my hand in front of my face.

[3DandBeyond]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

There is no difference in outcome between doing half the missions or all of the missions, the crucible still gets built. Earth still gets assaulted.

Thats like saying theres no difference in the outcome of ME1 or ME2 either, as they still finish in roughly the same spots.

You still face saren and still have to stop the collectors.

So whats the point of arguing that?

The point is you don't have to do all of the fetch quests in ME3-you merely have to do enough to advance the plot forward.  By the time I get past the mission to get the Primarch, I have 3500 EMS.  If I could go straight to Earth, I'd get the same endings as someone who played and got everything in the game.  And you never have to play ME1 and 2 at all or factor in the stuff obtained from them.  This indicates that all the choices made throughout 3 games are mostly meaningless.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

I wrote something similar to this a day or so ago. I totally agree. Glad this topic is around. We need more topics like this.

[robertthebard]

CitizenThom wrote...

saracen16 wrote...
As for war assets, they do affect the final outcome: the Crucible's options and success depends on the assets you gathered. The war assets are focused solely on making the Crucible work and gathering the personnel and equipment for the final battle on Earth. With the Catalyst, Shepard can then choose the future of the galaxy.

There is no difference in outcome between doing half the missions or all of the missions, the crucible still gets built. Earth still gets assaulted.

Really?  Because my Destroy saves are completely different.  One has enough EMS to get Synthesis offered, the other does not.  Since Earth gets assaulted in the beginning of the game, I don't see what your point is.  It's kind of the point.  You know, the Council races had their heads up their asses about the Reapers since Sovereign died, and now they're here, and the Council races are like "Oh crap, should have listened to Shepard sooner, I guess...".