6432 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

pls get this through your dense head, wanting Shepard to live and actually seeing him/her alive and the Reapers dead is not a happy ending. Your only looking at a small picture because your trying to snip at something to argue with.

Modifié par AresKeith, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

What the op just wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, just to reiterate. This thread is about asking Bioware to take another look at the game(s) and try to see it from the perspective of those that feel left out. I'm asking them to consider adding to the endings, to make it possible to achieve an ending where Shepard could (if you work hard enough at it) live and only the reapers could be destroyed. 

I

 

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

Did you play the game?  Did you see how messed up the galaxy is and how many people died and how they died and how many planets are messed up and how many colonies obliterated? 

dreman9999, stop mischaracterizing what I've said.  A Shepard lives ending isn't sunshine and cupcakes and even if the reapers are destroyed, that does not make it all better.  The aftermath would be horrible.  It should be horrible after making a choice of the 3 that now exist, but that's not shown.  The only thing added would be one hard, difficult way to achieve the destruction of the reapers alone and not some gratuitous murder of people that were trying to help you.  Apparently, you think massively destroyed galaxies are happy places.  I don't.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

pls get this through your dense head, wanting Shepard to live and actually seeing him/her alive and the Reapers dead is not a happy ending. Your only looking at a small picture because your trying to snip at something to argue with.

How is that not a happy ending? Don't give me any bs because other people die in the war. People always die in the war. A happy ending is not were everyone live and just the bad guys dies. A happy end is  where the hero lives and lose nothing and defeat the villians.

This is a happy ending. Saying it's not is bs.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:43 .

[Tamayah]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The point is, that you are allowed to return things for other than "false advertising". And it's not asserting some legal authority or special privilege. It's saying the product in some way failed to be what it should have been. Video games have seemed to be immune from this and so we get what we get.

Your issue is that the choice in the end of the game are too extreme for you.

 

The orignal advertizemnt ofthe game from the stat was..
"Many hard choices, none of them easy."

How does having hard choices in the end of thegame nagate that?

You were never garunteed a happy ending to the story at any time.

I understand where Ur coming from, I <3 ME1 & ME2 for the choices "CAN  +  HAVE to make. Hey, U can choose who's squadmate loyalty mission to take on before the final Suicide Mission (ME2). Not only that if U don't update the Normandy they can die. Hell Shepard can die if  "You" want that outcome, I hear (never tried it out). It was not that hard to do in the beginning, Keep it SIMPLE, Bad, Neutral, Happy Ending or No Happy Ending + Compelete Clousure.

Modifié par Bunanah, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:39 .

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What the op just wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, just to reiterate. This thread is about asking Bioware to take another look at the game(s) and try to see it from the perspective of those that feel left out. I'm asking them to consider adding to the endings, to make it possible to achieve an ending where Shepard could (if you work hard enough at it) live and only the reapers could be destroyed. 

I

 

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

Did you play the game?  Did you see how messed up the galaxy is and how many people died and how they died and how many planets are messed up and how many colonies obliterated? 

dreman9999, stop mischaracterizing what I've said.  A Shepard lives ending isn't sunshine and cupcakes and even if the reapers are destroyed, that does not make it all better.  The aftermath would be horrible.  It should be horrible after making a choice of the 3 that now exist, but that's not shown.  The only thing added would be one hard, difficult way to achieve the destruction of the reapers alone and not some gratuitous murder of people that were trying to help you.  Apparently, you think massively destroyed galaxies are happy places.  I don't.

Don't give me any bs because other people die in the war. People always die in the war. A happy ending is not were everyone live and just the bad guys dies. A happy end is  where the hero lives and lose nothing and defeat the villians.

This is a happy ending. Saying it's not is bs.

[dreman9999]

Bunanah wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The point is, that you are allowed to return things for other than "false advertising". And it's not asserting some legal authority or special privilege. It's saying the product in some way failed to be what it should have been. Video games have seemed to be immune from this and so we get what we get.

Your issue is that the choice in the end of the game are too extreme for you.

 

The orignal advertizemnt ofthe game from the stat was..
"Many hard choices, none of them easy."

How does having hard choices in the end of thegame nagate that?

You were never garunteed a happy ending to the story at any time.

I understand where Ur coming from, I <3 ME1 & ME2 for the choices "CAN  +  HAVE to make. Hey, U can choose who's squadmate loyalty mission to take on before the final Suicide Mission (ME2). Not only that if U don't update the Normandy they can die. Hell Shepard can die if  "You" want that outcome, I hear (never tried it out). It was not that hard to do in the beginning, Keep it SIMPLE, Bad, Netural, Happy Ending or No Happy Ending + Compelete Clousure.

But choice in ME were not always that simple Their many time the player was place in a point tha they had to make an extreme choice with no way out.
Virmire,
The battle of the citadel.
Legions loyalty mission.
The collector base choice
The tuchanaka Mission

The poitn was to place the play into moral conflict because of the issues. The ending of ME3 is just like that.

[3DandBeyond]

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

[StElmo]

Its not about having a happy ending, its about having a logical ending that isn't magicked up and is actually explained.

[IamDanThaMan]

dreman9999 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I hate WWII. What a terrible story. The Soviets totally got a cheap-ass Disney ending, they weren't forced to sacrafice anything so they all lived happily ever after with no reprecussions.

The burn their farmlands down to beat an enemy. And everyone had to live in an oppressive governement in that country...That's a happy ending?

Somebody missed the sarcasm face.

Also, there is a severe misunderstanding of colateral damage. People seem to be confusing it with friendly fire. Colateral damage is inadvertent casualties and destruction in civilian areas in the course of military operations(google it).

So yes, there was a lot of colateral damage when bombing japan and germany.

The TC wants there to be an ending where your choices have only good consequences and no negative repucussions. That is totally not realistic. You want your video game to remain a total fantasy world and not be at all grounded in reality. The fact of the matter is that Bioware intentionally made all three endings to have good and bad consequences, so you would actually have a hard decision to make at the end.

There is no "best" ending on purpose, so what you are asking for would go totally against the entire theme of the series and would make everything else obsolete because nobody would ever pick any of the other endings if there was a perfect ending that made everything great at the end.

This would remove all the thought from the entire game and make it much, much worse.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

pls get this through your dense head, wanting Shepard to live and actually seeing him/her alive and the Reapers dead is not a happy ending. Your only looking at a small picture because your trying to snip at something to argue with.

How is that not a happy ending? Don't give me any bs because other people die in the war. People always die in the war. A happy ending is not were everyone live and just the bad guys dies. A happy end is  where the hero lives and lose nothing anddefeat the villians.

This is a happy ending. Saying it's not is bs.

well apparently you don't understand the concept of RPG type games, you don't force a character to die. Our Shepard should have the opinion to live based on what we did in the game/series. And a happy ending isn't just about the main character living.

Amd its both BS and ignorant for you trying to bash someone for wanting to both have and see their character live because you don't

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

Yes, can't make you point so you just want to ignore the commet.

Stop say that an ending where Shepard lives and kills only the reapers  is not a happy ending. It's bs. 

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That is a happy ending. Having Shepard live and kill only the reapers is a happy ending.
A happy ending is exactly what the op wants.

pls get this through your dense head, wanting Shepard to live and actually seeing him/her alive and the Reapers dead is not a happy ending. Your only looking at a small picture because your trying to snip at something to argue with.

How is that not a happy ending? Don't give me any bs because other people die in the war. People always die in the war. A happy ending is not were everyone live and just the bad guys dies. A happy end is  where the hero lives and lose nothing anddefeat the villians.

This is a happy ending. Saying it's not is bs.

well apparently you don't understand the concept of RPG type games, you don't force a character to die. Our Shepard should have the opinion to live based on what we did in the game/series. And a happy ending isn't just about the main character living.

Amd its both BS and ignorant for you trying to bash someone for wanting to both have and see their character live because you don't

But choice in ME were not always that simple Their many time the player was place in a point tha they had to make an extreme choice with no way out. 
Virmire,
The battle of the citadel.
Legions loyalty mission.
The collector base choice
The tuchanaka Mission

The point was to place the play into moral conflict because of the issues  with the choice in hand. The ending of ME3 is just like that. 

[IamDanThaMan]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

So you ceated this thread so that everyone could just agree with you and tell you how great your idea is?

Your idea is bad and would ruin the game. I'm sorry that you failed to grasp the theme and concept of the ending, but that is not my, nor deman9999, or anybody else's problem.

[Conniving_Eagle]

I posted this today on a thread about victory through refusal.

"Destroy is already the most popular ending because of people headcanoning both Shepard's survival and the refurbishment of the Mass Relays. I'm not sure why this would create an "uber happy ending" and Synthesis is already portrayed as a "Disney" ending. Did the Soviet Union get a "Disney" ending in WW2, or the Northern Union in the American Civil War? They did not. The war has taken its toll, billions of people have died, even more have lost precious loved ones, the whole galaxy is drained and unstable from barely surviving this war of attrition. Why would it be bad, because we wouldn't have some stupid sacrafice forced on us? I'd rather have that than the option between three almost equally crappy endings. Victory through refusal wouldn't be a cake-walk, we're talking about an insanely high amount of EMS, gathered from playing all three games and maxing out galactic readiness in the multiplayer. And if you think this would be contradictory to Bioware, please elaborate. They have always rewarded the player for going the extra distance, you were able to save Urdnot Wrex, you were able to have a flawless suicide run, you were able to save both the Geth and the Quarians, at one point Bioware even considered allowing the player to save both Ashley and Kaidan. Even Mac Walters supported something like this."

[Linksys17]

Mr.House wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

Honestly the ending sucked but what killed me3 for me was stripping the few RPG elements from me2. me3 just felt like a huge demo where Bioware was showcasing their new combat

Conversation choice isnt a strictly RPG element by the by.  To some it is and to some it isnt as RPGs have long existed in gamng since before choice in what to say and any given time.

But what few RPG elements did they remove?  I would argue most feel ME3 has MORE Rpg elements than two did on tob of having better combat.

From ME2:

1. Well I do consider dialog choices an RPG element IMO

2. Hub worlds

3. terrible journal

4. visiting planets; ME2 at least had some planet and ship side missions, which gave me more incentive to peruse the galaxy map

ME1:

1. Inventory/loot system

2. Open world exploration

3. Customization of Squad; armor-mods, omni tool, and amps

4. conversation game mechanics; more tangible rewards for lesser decisions

The only nice RPGish element they added that I really liked was squadmates talking to each other like in DA or ME1 in those dreaded elevators  

ME3 had a better power system, better selection of weapons, better leveling up system, weapon modding similar to ME and squadmates powers where better handled. Also more armor customization. Sure ME2 had a better dialog system, but in terms of rpg elements as a whole, ME2 was the black sheep. Strong dialog system, but the other elements where downright horrible.

Yes, and those RPG elements are geared towards combat, which I enjoy, but I was more focused on narrative/exploration RPG elements.  Combat is fun and enjoyable but imo, wasn't nearly as important for immersion and longevity as:
1. Choosing what to say from several dialog choices
2. Tangible rewards and consequences for decisions in the form of several lines of dialog, cinematics, missions, items ect
3. Not too focused on the main quest but have side quests with more reward than a war asset

I respect peoples opinion if they like combat alot but honestly (especially in an RPG) I want combat to be initiated by and follow with dialog or cutscenes.(I'll even settle for text in the form of datapads or consoles) Because then there is more of a story telling element to the non-main quests.  Would it have been so hard to add some cinematic conversations to the N7 missions?  

I need more of a reason to want to spend time killing Reaper, Cerberus, and Geth fledglings besides Hacket popping on a terminal telling me to do it, then telling me it was a victory for the Alliance.  The Alliance side missions in ME1 and 2 had backstories and unique characters/enemies so each side mission had a little flavor.  

Remember Major Kyle, that crazy biotic girlfriend, The merc smugglers and pirates in ME2, the rogue VI in 2, The cerberus me1 missions, the exogeni scientist with the god-complex, biotic terrorists I do because they were interesting and grabbed my attention!

Also cannot stand all the retconning of 2 and 3!!!!!!!!
 

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

Yes, can't make you point so you just want to ignore the commet.

Stop say that an ending where Shepard lives and kills only the reapers  is not a happy ending. It's bs. 

dude just stop arguing with EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with your opinion. You obviously aren't going to change anybodys mind. You're welcome to your opinion but you don't have to argue with half of BSN to get your point across.

Modifié par KENNY4753, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[dreman9999]

3d, report away and stop pming me. Nothing will happen. I did nothing wrong.

[Rudy Lis]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

Russians carpet bombed the crap out of most of germany

Russians couldn't carpet bomb Germany because they doesn't have enough strategical bombers for that. Carpet bombing is brought to you by western democracies, like double U: US and UK. So it were them who carpet bomb Germany. And if you look into patterns of bombings and analyze amount of damage dealt to Germany military/industrial potentional that make you wonder...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I hate WWII. What a terrible story. The Soviets totally got a cheap-ass Disney ending, they weren't forced to sacrafice anything so they all lived happily ever after with no reprecussions.

Not sure if serious or just that kind of humour.

[dreman9999]

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

Yes, can't make you point so you just want to ignore the commet.

Stop say that an ending where Shepard lives and kills only the reapers  is not a happy ending. It's bs. 

dude just stop arguing with EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with your opinion. You obviously aren't going to change anybodys mind. Your welcome to your opinion but you don't have to argue with half of BSN to get your point across.

It's clear I'm not going to change any one minds. But I'm open to express my opinion just like the op. And saying shepard living at the end and just only killing the reaper is not a happy end is bs. It is a happy ending. There is no way to explain how it's not.

[AresKeith]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

So you ceated this thread so that everyone could just agree with you and tell you how great your idea is?

Your idea is bad and would ruin the game. I'm sorry that you failed to grasp the theme and concept of the ending, but that is not my, nor deman9999, or anybody else's problem.

no she didn't this create for everyone to agree with her, your welcome to state your own opinion. And no we didn't fail to grasp the theme because the ending isn't about the theme of the game

[IamDanThaMan]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's clear I'm not going to change any one minds. But I'm open to express my opinion just like the op. And saying shepard living at the end and just only killing the reaper is not a happy end is bs. It is a happy ending. There is no way to explain how it's not.

Well, I think the point is not that it is a happy ending for everybody, but, relative to the other endings, it would be a happy ending, So nobody would ever choose any of the other endings, which removes the element of choice.

What they want is the destroy ending, except the geth don't die, EDI doesn't die, Shepard doesn't die, and the relays remain in tact. Tell me TC how that doesn't completely invalidate the other endings and remove all choice from this game.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

IamDanThaMan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

So you ceated this thread so that everyone could just agree with you and tell you how great your idea is?

Your idea is bad and would ruin the game. I'm sorry that you failed to grasp the theme and concept of the ending, but that is not my, nor deman9999, or anybody else's problem.

no she didn't this create for everyone to agree with her, your welcome to state your own opinion. And no we didn't fail to grasp the theme because the ending isn't about the theme of the game

  
"Many desisions lie ahead, none of them easy."

And the end choices are not easy choices to make ...So...

[KENNY4753]

dreman9999 wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Please, for sanity's sake. I am requesting that others not argue with dreman9999. This person is just interested in arguing. That is not why I created this thread. I'd appreciate it if we all stopped replying to his repeated attempts to start arguments. I don't know what the problem is, it's probably shackled and forced to post these things.

Yes, can't make you point so you just want to ignore the commet.

Stop say that an ending where Shepard lives and kills only the reapers  is not a happy ending. It's bs. 

dude just stop arguing with EVERYBODY who doesn't agree with your opinion. You obviously aren't going to change anybodys mind. Your welcome to your opinion but you don't have to argue with half of BSN to get your point across.

It's clear I'm not going to change any one minds. But I'm open to express my opinion just like the op. And saying shepard living at the end and just only killing the reaper is not a happy end is bs. It is a happy ending. There is no way to explain how it's not.

I'm not going to argue, that would be the one of the happiest ending we could get. Somebody can want that but it's not that likely to happen. Even if Shepard lives and the reapers are destroyed and not the geth or EDI with them doesn't make it a perfect ending. Other stuff would happen and other people would die because that's war. I would not mind there being a "happy ending" to ME3 but a perfect ending would be bs.
And yes you are open to your opinion but there is no need to argue with everybody. discuss yes but arguing no

Modifié par KENNY4753, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[3DandBeyond]

IamDanThaMan wrote...


Somebody missed the sarcasm face.

Also, there is a severe misunderstanding of colateral damage. People seem to be confusing it with friendly fire. Colateral damage is inadvertent casualties and destruction in civilian areas in the course of military operations(google it).

So yes, there was a lot of colateral damage when bombing japan and germany.

The TC wants there to be an ending where your choices have only good consequences and no negative repucussions. That is totally not realistic. You want your video game to remain a total fantasy world and not be at all grounded in reality. The fact of the matter is that Bioware intentionally made all three endings to have good and bad consequences, so you would actually have a hard decision to make at the end.

There is no "best" ending on purpose, so what you are asking for would go totally against the entire theme of the series and would make everything else obsolete because nobody would ever pick any of the other endings if there was a perfect ending that made everything great at the end.

This would remove all the thought from the entire game and make it much, much worse.

Oh for pete's sake.  Of course, there was collateral damage in WWII-I don't need to google it, I had history classes and parents and relatives in the war and I'm not two years old.

The negative repercussions are all over the place.  Except they are not even shown when you make a choice-that is fantasy.  The choices are complete fantasies-did you think they were realistic?  The hard decisions have been made-the hard fighting is being fought.  I said it would not be something easy to attain. 

And this is a real problem:

"nobody would ever pick any of the other endings if there was a perfect ending that made everything great at the end."

I don't agree with you, but if that's the case then nobody has the ending they want right now and everyone got really bad endings.  If that's the case, everyone would be agreeing with me and wanting a "happier" (not happy sappy super sweet) ending.

If you like other endings, why would you ever pick a "happier" one?  If you would always pick a "happier" one then you don't like the endings you now have.

However, I am not asking them to take away your endings.  I am asking them to consider giving me something more authentic that would be what I would like. Something additional that could lead to the reapers being destroyed and Shepard having to sacrifice him/herself for that as well as one hard to get Shepard lives ending with reapers only destroyed.  I am asking to not be asked to make demented choices that are what I consider to be immoral and not at all a part of the character of my Shepard.  I'd prefer endings that had no fantasy in them at all-that would mean getting rid of the endings you like, but I'm not asking that that be considered.

I don't know what's so hard to understand-I don't want to take anything away from you.  I'm not asking them to force you to ever have to have something as super happy as a galaxy in ruins where Shepard's alive and the reapers are dead.  You know where Shepard and his/her LI go skipping through fields of dead bodies. 

[Johanna]

Beautiful and constructive post, OP. Well said.