6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

@3DandBeyond

And I don't want BioWare to have consider taking another look at this franchise. I think the franchise is good as it is, and doesn't need any changes. The only thing it needs is more DLCs like Leviathan, and the Sequel-RPG-Trilogy with ME3 save import feature.

Then you might want to quit supporting my thread.  You and others like you are continually helping to keep the topic going-so thank you.

Of course, it's totally up to them and not you.

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And I think your "last plea" is over. BioWare already said NO. And you are just wasting your time.

[3DandBeyond]

Galbrant wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Seival wrote...

OP, your position is selfish. You can't even imagine how many people liked the endings and don't wanna anything to be changed. Did you think about those people before posting this? I don't think so.

No offence, but all you are trying to do is to please one group of people by disappointing everyone else... If you want an "independence-day-style-holywoodish-happy-ending-silly-story", then you already have tons of such games available already. Just look around, and choose the one with the most bad-ass-hero-photo on the box... But please, don't try to apply those silly holywoodish standards to my favorite game.

BioWare will not remake the endings (thanks, BioWare). You have to deal with it.

/thread

Lol... this is funny.  "OMG STOP TELLING BIOWARE TO MAKE ALTERNATE ENDINGS! I DONT WANT TO BE "FORCED" TO DOWNLOAD THEM! ITS NOT FAIR! I SHOULDNT BE FORCED TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT WAAAAAAH"

Thats how I read that.  NOBODY is forcing you or anyone else who enjoys the current retarded endings to download anything.  In fact you can just go away and leave the BSN forever and be content if you wish.  Not saying you have to.  Just saying that any changes they make will not do anything to you - unless you make yourself get involved by downloading the DLC.

The time spent on making these new endings could be spent on better things. Stuff like Leviathan and Omega. 

Well if you think Leviathan is a better option than an ending that makes sense. I can't help you then... except to recommend you to a good neurologist. I'll put in a good word for you.

The problem here is that the reviews for Leviathan (yes, even from those that decried fans as entitled and haters) are not glowing.  They're tepid.  Content I'm suggesting might make more DLC such as Omega be more well-received and relevant.

Imagine getting Omega content and taking back Omega.  And then imagine Aria being treated in the end as Leviathan was.  Explain what happened to Leviathan at the end of the game and then imagine Aria's fate because you won't be shown either.

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

Dreman do you ever sleep? and still talking?

Just like you never listen.

[Xellith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The time spent on making these new endings could be spent on better things. Stuff like Leviathan and Omega. 

Thats the thing.

Okay.  You and me are going to have a fight.  Eventually you end up dying because I pull out a gun from my butthole and you die.

Replay this 100 times.  Same result.  No matter what you do between the start of our fued and the final fight with me - you die.

Shouldnt being able to replay the same day over and over again while being able to make changes to what you do = different outcomes?

I mean think about it.  "Oh hey I went to omega and I found this Mass Effect defence field thats 100x stronger than what anyone else has today".  /gets shot and dies still

They can still add DLC like omega and leviathan - but those DLC should change the outcome of the final battle in at least SOME way.  The different outcomes can even be based on mixtures of particular war assets working in combination instead of just some arbitrary number.

Or are you really saying that if you could replay the same day again in your life over and over that the end of the day should end the same. regardless of what you did?

Keep the current endings.  But allow new choices made in new dlcs to lead to possible new outcomes in the final battle.

Leviathan doesnt even get a cutscene in the final battle.  Just 2 lines of dialogue from the catalyst.

[dreman9999]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

@3DandBeyond

And I don't want BioWare to have consider taking another look at this franchise. I think the franchise is good as it is, and doesn't need any changes. The only thing it needs is more DLCs like Leviathan, and the Sequel-RPG-Trilogy with ME3 save import feature.

Then you might want to quit supporting my thread.  You and others like you are continually helping to keep the topic going-so thank you.

Of course, it's totally up to them and not you.

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And I think your "last plea" is over. BioWare already said NO. And you are just wasting your time.

I already told the cp this pages ago. She will not listen.

[BD Manchild]

Seival wrote...

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And also reminding me of why I find it so hard to take pro-enders seriously. Honestly, can none of you debate the topic without resorting to insults and ad-hominem attacks (said the pot to the kettle, I know, but even my relatively casual observation suggests pro-enders are even worse than their anti-ender counterparts)?

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:03 .

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

@3DandBeyond

And I don't want BioWare to have consider taking another look at this franchise. I think the franchise is good as it is, and doesn't need any changes. The only thing it needs is more DLCs like Leviathan, and the Sequel-RPG-Trilogy with ME3 save import feature.

Then you might want to quit supporting my thread.  You and others like you are continually helping to keep the topic going-so thank you.

Of course, it's totally up to them and not you.

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And I think your "last plea" is over. BioWare already said NO. And you are just wasting your time.

You keep posting, that means my thread is not going away-that gives BW more of a chance to see it.  And BW is a company that wants to make money, be relevant, even be liked for the most part.  They are humans that have free will and can change their minds-I have more faith in that than you do.  I think they want what they created to be loved.  I do think they'd like a way to include others in that and to reclaim lost ardent fans.

Again, Seival, dreman9999, keep posting-it makes this thread more visible.  I appreciate it. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:02 .

[dreman9999]

Xellith wrote...

Seival wrote...

OP, your position is selfish. You can't even imagine how many people liked the endings and don't wanna anything to be changed. Did you think about those people before posting this? I don't think so.

No offence, but all you are trying to do is to please one group of people by disappointing everyone else... If you want an "independence-day-style-holywoodish-happy-ending-silly-story", then you already have tons of such games available already. Just look around, and choose the one with the most bad-ass-hero-photo on the box... But please, don't try to apply those silly holywoodish standards to my favorite game.

BioWare will not remake the endings (thanks, BioWare). You have to deal with it.

/thread

Lol... this is funny.  "OMG STOP TELLING BIOWARE TO MAKE ALTERNATE ENDINGS! I DONT WANT TO BE "FORCED" TO DOWNLOAD THEM! ITS NOT FAIR! I SHOULDNT BE FORCED TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT WAAAAAAH"

Thats how I read that.  NOBODY is forcing you or anyone else who enjoys the current retarded endings to download anything.  In fact you can just go away and leave the BSN forever and be content if you wish.  Not saying you have to.  Just saying that any changes they make will not do anything to you - unless you make yourself get involved by downloading the DLC.

That not what any is say. We say that this won't be done because this is not the direction BW want the story to go. They want the ending to bring the palyer to moral conflict. If the add a"Shepard lives, reapers die only" choice then it goes agenst the concept.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dreman do you ever sleep? and still talking?

Just like you never listen.

not much to listen to when you repeat the same nonsense that people countered time after time

this exchange is over

Modifié par AresKeith, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:03 .

[dreman9999]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

@3DandBeyond

And I don't want BioWare to have consider taking another look at this franchise. I think the franchise is good as it is, and doesn't need any changes. The only thing it needs is more DLCs like Leviathan, and the Sequel-RPG-Trilogy with ME3 save import feature.

Then you might want to quit supporting my thread.  You and others like you are continually helping to keep the topic going-so thank you.

Of course, it's totally up to them and not you.

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And I think your "last plea" is over. BioWare already said NO. And you are just wasting your time.

You keep posting, that means my thread is not going away-that gives BW more of a chance to see it.  And BW is a company that wants to make money, be relevant, even be liked for the most part.  They are humans that have free will and can change their minds-I have more faith in that than you do.  I think they want what they created to be loved.  I do think they'd like a way to include others in that and to reclaim lost ardent fans.

Again, Seival, dreman9999, keep posting-it makes this thread more visible.  I appreciate it. 

People will post in it anyway. Atleast when the devs read topic, they will see that there are people who are ok with the endings.

[EnvyTB075]

dreman9999 wrote...

I already told the cp this pages ago. She will not listen.

In case you haven't noticed, thats because no one listens to you, and with good reason.

[Moirai]

dreman9999 wrote...

Moirai wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Moirai wrote...

Okay, I'm going to throw my opinion into the mix on this, coming in from a slightly different angle.

My main issue with the ending was that I was forced to choose any of the StarChild/Intelligence's choices at all. Why? Because the reasons for doing so are based on faulty in-game logic and zero evidence.

StarChild states that the core reason for the 'harvesting' is due to the fact that the created will always turn on their creators. And yet, as the main character/player, you are never once presented with any evidence whatsoever to even hint at this possibility. Not ever.

No ancient records from previous cycles. No evidence in current cycle.

And no, the Geth attacking Eden Prime, etc and so on, is not evidence of this. StarChild clearly implies that this created/creator conflict is a natural evolution of events that cannot be avoided, cycle after cycle. That isn't the same as the Geth. That was a forced 'evolution', caused directly by Reaper involvement. As shown in ME3, the Geth never had any desire or want to rebel against their creators. Completely the opposite of what StarChild states.

And yet, at the end of three games, we are now forced to choose from three unpalatable options (yes, refuse, exists as an 'option' but isn't technically the same in context of the in-game situation), when we have been provided with absolutely no evidence to support the notion that any of those options are valid or necessary. In fact, if you saved the Geth and Quarians, you have substantive evidence to the contrary.

And yet it means nothing.

And, back in March, when finishing the game, I sat there, thinking, 'Why the hell is the game forcing me to pick from these crappy options, when my Shepard and everyone in the ME universe deserves none of them? Why is there no other option that allows me to prove to the StarChild that it is wrong and just get him to stop? Why, after all that these characters have gone through, are they being punished this way?'

More to the point; why did Bioware not allow us, through exploration, mission success and dialogue choice, to attain an ending which was fair to all involved?

And no, these aren't realistically tough decisions that make sense within the context of what you know (like Virmire). These are the cheap contrived versions that come out of left field, at the last moment, just when you expect to be given a shot at victory over the bast*rds you've been fighting all this time, and after all that you've done and all the resources you collected together...and socks you right on the f**king jaw, leaving you thinking, 'WTF...?'.

That is cheap. Real cheap.

StarChild has no evidence to support his standpoint. You, on the other hand, can have evidence to strongly counter it. And yet, you can't argue with him because Bioware wants to enforce a set of unreasonable end game scenarios on you based on completely unsubstantiated events that have never been mentioned before.

So, yes. I think the story deserves another attainable ending, and one that pays tribute to the time and effort that the player (and characters) have gone through to reach that spot in front of StarChild.

I think we've earned the right to be given a chance at that.

And besides, at its core, this is just a game. Is it so bad to leave your customers finishing it and punching the air and wearing a big soppy grin on their faces?

Is that really so bad..?

Bioware..?

Control and destory is not based on the catalyst logic nor control by him. He just telling you what the crucible does.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not directly pertinent to the point I was making. Which was, Bioware effectively yanking the rug out from under the player at the last moment in the worst possible way, based on flaky evidence which the game had already shown was not the case. That's not good story-telling. That's just cheap story-telling...in my personal opinion.

The catalyst issues have nothing to do with your choice. It's just telling you how it started. It's beleif have no real ground on your choice to control it or destroy it. If you don't belieive it, destory it.

But on it's points, their 2 ancient alien being that did say the conflicts happend...Javik and the Leviathens.

Wrong. The Catalyst's 'issues', as you call them, have everything to do with the fact that the choices are even presented as options in the first place. The choices are only contextually valid themselves provided that the premise behind the 'harvest' is fundamatally valid and intact.  It can be shown otherwise, using information clearly available in the game.

On that basis, an option to explain the current invalidation of that core premise to the Catalyst is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances and situation.

[dreman9999]

BD Manchild wrote...

Seival wrote...

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And also reminding me of why I find it so hard to take pro-enders seriously. Honestly, can none of you debate the topic without resorting to insults and ad-hominem attacks (said the pot to the kettle, I know, but even my relatively casual observation suggests pro-enders are even worse than their anti-ender counterparts)?

I'm sorry. The entire base of our arguement is that the current ending were made thisway to bring the player to moral conflict. And by adding a "Shepard live, reapers only die" choice it counters the direction BW want to go.
Not one of you has get to understand this or counter that notion.

[Xellith]

dreman9999 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Seival wrote...

OP, your position is selfish. You can't even imagine how many people liked the endings and don't wanna anything to be changed. Did you think about those people before posting this? I don't think so.

No offence, but all you are trying to do is to please one group of people by disappointing everyone else... If you want an "independence-day-style-holywoodish-happy-ending-silly-story", then you already have tons of such games available already. Just look around, and choose the one with the most bad-ass-hero-photo on the box... But please, don't try to apply those silly holywoodish standards to my favorite game.

BioWare will not remake the endings (thanks, BioWare). You have to deal with it.

/thread

Lol... this is funny.  "OMG STOP TELLING BIOWARE TO MAKE ALTERNATE ENDINGS! I DONT WANT TO BE "FORCED" TO DOWNLOAD THEM! ITS NOT FAIR! I SHOULDNT BE FORCED TO DOWNLOAD CONTENT WAAAAAAH"

Thats how I read that.  NOBODY is forcing you or anyone else who enjoys the current retarded endings to download anything.  In fact you can just go away and leave the BSN forever and be content if you wish.  Not saying you have to.  Just saying that any changes they make will not do anything to you - unless you make yourself get involved by downloading the DLC.

That not what any is say. We say that this won't be done because this is not the direction BW want the story to go. They want the ending to bring the palyer to moral conflict. If the add a"Shepard lives, reapers die only" choice then it goes agenst the concept.

Okay.  I hate AI.  I killed the Geth on Rannoch.  I hate EDI.  I reach the crucible.  I choose destroy.  Death to the reapers.  I get the rubble scene.  Edi dead.

Where is the moral conflict there?  The reapers would be dead.  Geth would be dead.  Edi would be dead.  If Im against AI then there isnt moral conflict.

You are saying there is a moral conflict choice at the end when clearly that only applies to a limited number of situations.

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

Seival wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Seival wrote...

@3DandBeyond

And I don't want BioWare to have consider taking another look at this franchise. I think the franchise is good as it is, and doesn't need any changes. The only thing it needs is more DLCs like Leviathan, and the Sequel-RPG-Trilogy with ME3 save import feature.

Then you might want to quit supporting my thread.  You and others like you are continually helping to keep the topic going-so thank you.

Of course, it's totally up to them and not you.

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And I think your "last plea" is over. BioWare already said NO. And you are just wasting your time.

I already told the cp this pages ago. She will not listen.

Because this thread was not directed to you-I think you are upset that I will not listen to you.  As you are fond of saying-the game is Bioware's game, not yours.  It's their story, not yours.  But you keep telling me you know what Bioware wants to do with it and what they had in mind.

I wonder, but am not asking you to explain, if you are a mind reader since you claim to know the direction Bioware is going with the game and story.


They've already started to change the kid's dialogue in some minute ways-ways that indicate the kid is not adhering to his programming.  I wonder what you will think if Bioware within a year has totally changed the meaning of the endings to be the kid's idea alone and a corruption of the use of the crucible for his own purposes and not its original intent-the original intent being the destruction of the reapers.

Bioware might have that in mind.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:07 .

[PinkysPain]

Where were all the people who liked the original ending and hate happier ending retcons when they retconned the total destruction of the Mass Relays? Shouldn't you have been insulted then?

[BD Manchild]

dreman9999 wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...

Seival wrote...

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And also reminding me of why I find it so hard to take pro-enders seriously. Honestly, can none of you debate the topic without resorting to insults and ad-hominem attacks (said the pot to the kettle, I know, but even my relatively casual observation suggests pro-enders are even worse than their anti-ender counterparts)?

I'm sorry. The entire base of our arguement is that the current ending were made thisway to bring the player to moral conflict. And by adding a "Shepard live, reapers only die" choice it counters the direction BW want to go.
Not one of you has get to understand this or counter that notion.

I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I'd say that the problem isn't that I don't understand that idea (and I think several others have said this as well, which I've noticed you've conveniently ignored); the problem I see is that the way Bioware brings the player into moral conflict is utter horse-manure, disregarding thematic and narrative consistency for the sake of arbitrary "moral ambiguity"

Modifié par BD Manchild, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:11 .

[dreman9999]

Moirai wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Moirai wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Moirai wrote...



Bioware..?

Control and destory is not based on the catalyst logic nor control by him. He just telling you what the crucible does.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not directly pertinent to the point I was making. Which was, Bioware effectively yanking the rug out from under the player at the last moment in the worst possible way, based on flaky evidence which the game had already shown was not the case. That's not good story-telling. That's just cheap story-telling...in my personal opinion.

The catalyst issues have nothing to do with your choice. It's just telling you how it started. It's beleif have no real ground on your choice to control it or destroy it. If you don't belieive it, destory it.

But on it's points, their 2 ancient alien being that did say the conflicts happend...Javik and the Leviathens.

Wrong. The Catalyst's 'issues', as you call them, have everything to do with the fact that the choices are even presented as options in the first place. The choices are only contextually valid themselves provided that the premise behind the 'harvest' is fundamatally valid and intact.  It can be shown otherwise, using information clearly available in the game.

On that basis, an option to explain the current invalidation of that core premise to the Catalyst is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances and situation.

Yes, it can be ignored. If you don't beleive his issues are a real problem, you pick destory. It 's as simple as that.
The catalyst issue are just the cause. It does not have to be related toyou issuse with the conflict with the reapers.

Also, you clear don't understand that the catalyst is a shackled AI doing what it's programed to do.



Leviathan: The intelligence was envisioned as another tool
Shepard:And now we all pay the price of you mistake
Leviathan: There was no mistake. It still serves it's perpose

And on it's programing aka perpose...



Leviathan:  To counter this problem we creater an intelligence with the mandate to perserve life at any cost.

That basicly means  they made a shackled  AI to solve a problem with no limit ever given to how. 
It's shackled. 
The catalyst is  shackled. 

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Well its just silly to believe you speak for the community, or the majority or whatever, forums are NEVER the majority of gamers.

Out of the 10 people i personally know that PLAYED ME3, guess how many are active on forums?

1. Heck even myself i'm only ever active here and maybe a few MMO forums, but thats it and i play a TON of games.

so to think forumites or internet posters are a majority is just silly.

But besides that, I'm always openf or more content from BW. Problem they face is, if they add ANOTHER ending or change the ending more to suit the whims of those still complaining, where does it then end?

What if people arent happy with the NEW ending? What if people want ANOTHER one? and so on.

Its a slippery slope if there ever was one, sometimes they just HAVE to put their foot down in a way. It sucks I know, but at some point it becomes a waste of resources to keep going back and back and doing over again and again.

So I cans ee why they cant/wont keep changing the ending or adding alternate ones, but once again, if they DID, I'd get it regardless, more options are always nice

And who do you think gave Bioware all their feedback? Would you disagree that the rest of ME playerbase would dislike a better ending?

What is a "better" ending?

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...

You who see these ideas as morally ok or as great moral choices that should exist should be happy. You have that. If I ask them to create additional, extra, non-core material it should not threaten you, but for some reason it does. I think a poster has repeatedly said it best for you. You have chosen an ending that so far is best for you. I am happy for you. But if another ending came along you are afraid others might want that one more. I don't get this at all.

Sure, the existence of such a DLC wouldn't do anything to my game, since I wouldn't download it.My problem is with the principle of giving out escape hatches for the moral dilemmas, which is something that Bio has done too often in the past. Essentially -- and there's no way to make this not sound obnoxious -- I'm better off if Bio writes you off as a customer?

Edit: two implicit assumptions there. First, that your real dealbreaker here is the morality. Second, that there aren't so many folks like you that Bio needs you to survive.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 septembre 2012 - 05:32 .

[dreman9999]

BD Manchild wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BD Manchild wrote...

Seival wrote...

I'm not supporting your thread, I'm just reminding to some particular anti-enders that there are pro-enders as well.

And also reminding me of why I find it so hard to take pro-enders seriously. Honestly, can none of you debate the topic without resorting to insults and ad-hominem attacks (said the pot to the kettle, I know, but even my relatively casual observation suggests pro-enders are even worse than their anti-ender counterparts)?

I'm sorry. The entire base of our arguement is that the current ending were made thisway to bring the player to moral conflict. And by adding a "Shepard live, reapers only die" choice it counters the direction BW want to go.
Not one of you has get to understand this or counter that notion.

I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but I'd say that the problem isn't that I don't understand that idea (and I think several others have said this as well, which I've noticed you've conveniently ignored); the problem I see is that the way Bioware brings the player into moral conflict is utter horse-manure, disregarding thematic and narrative consistency for the sake of arbitrary "moral ambiguity"

You're also making a lot of assumptions on what Bioware's intentions were. Were you in close personal contact with the writers?

How is it an assumption that they wanted to bring the player to moral conflict? The orginal head write clear stated that thewanted to do that with the endings. The endings follow the same concept.
 Also, how bw bring the player to moral conflict is no inconsistent. Through out the game the issue of whether the crucible would effect us or destory us as well was brought up plenty of time. The crucible was always seen as a possible double edge sword that could harm us as well. How is it inconsistent if that issue was always brought up and later to be found to be true?

[3DandBeyond]

dreman9999 wrote...

That not what any is say. We say that this won't be done because this is not the direction BW want the story to go. They want the ending to bring the palyer to moral conflict. If the add a"Shepard lives, reapers die only" choice then it goes agenst the concept.

When you get a job running Bioware then you can tell me the direction BW wants the story to go.  Until then, please do not presume to know what they plan on doing at the final end of ME3 and all DLC.

I am leaving this to their discretion, exactly because I fully recognize the decision rests with them.  I can express what I'd like to see, present ways I think it could work and be minimally invasive and even work with planned DLC as an adjunct.  I can express why I think it might give them additional resources and gain them fans and help them retain those sitting on the fence.  I can ask for the moon and expect nothing and maybe get nothing.

I don't presume to know how they want all this to end. I do assume BW is a company and capable of adapting to new visions in order to make things work out for what's best for their future. 

I can also express an opinion, one that Xelith (sp?) put so well-there isn't totally a moral dilemma within these choices.  If you hated AIs and want to destroy the reapers, there's no dilemma.  Nor is there one for me.  None of the choices have morality within them for me, so there's no dilemma; they are not choices for me at all.  A dilemma would be something I'd find hard to overcome but might see as acceptable to a final outcome.  If neither outcome is sufficiently good for me, there's no dilemma.

I don't ask you  to accept that, I truly do not care what you think.  You aren't even the target audience I am asking Bioware to consider.  You don't factor into this at all for me.  I'm asking BW to consider those that want to come back to ME and BW and would willingly pay even to do so, for this to be "made right" in some way.  I think they'd sell more and be able to make more DLC and games that way.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, the existence of such a DLC wouldn't do anything to my game, since I wouldn't download it.My problem is with the principle of giving out escape hatches for the moral dilemmas, which is something that Bio has done too often in the past. Essentially -- and there's no way to make this not sound obnoxious -- I'm better off if Bio writes you off as a customer

You're right.  That does sound obnoxious

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dreman do you ever sleep? and still talking?

Just like you never listen.

not much to listen to when you repeat the same nonsense that people countered time after time

this exchange is over

Only because you don't listen.