6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

3D, another excellent post, which I wholeheartedly agree.

Bioware, you say you pay attention to feedback from fans, please, please, please pay attention here! You can still mollify a lot of angry or disillusioned players here.

[Xellith]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I know that the number of disgruntled players is very, very large.  What BioWare risks in not addressing these issues is its uniqueness as a developer. 

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If the TARP study is correct, and the bioware poll is accurate, then this equates to 1761864 people who are dissatisfied with the ME3 ending.  Basically put - half (or more) are upset with the ME3 ending (before EC was introduced at least)

[dreman9999]

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You do realize they've already stated that beyond the EC they don't plan to change the endings. Maybe adjust dialog (like they did with Leviathan), which I'd expect. But you're never going to get a full adjustment. You're going to have to accept the endings as they are.

...And they also said that they wouldn't change the endings before the EC, after which they retconned major plot points and provided us with a 4th option. 

I may not have the same views as the OP with regard to everything I'd like to see in future DLC, but I hope this stays on the front page. 

And I for one don't expect everyone to agree-diversity is a great concept.  As are redemption, unity, self-reliance, independence, autonomy, and so on.  I felt that the endings ripped all of these things from the story.  In the end, I want Bioware to answer this-pick any ending and ask yourself if that was what you were fighting for.  Pick any ending and ask, who in ME wanted that.  The heart, the emotional bond with the main character is paramount in any story and the reader or player must feel compelled to have the character do certain things.  The heart must be maintained.

That's your interpertaion of thegame. Not the literal one. The theme of ME was to question the play of what lenghts  they would go to stop an unstopple force. The ending does not go ageinst that concept.

Which is your interpretation of the game. The beauty of ME was that it involved the players in ways that most other games fail to do. Becuase of this involvement no ones interpretation of the "theme" of ME is incorrect. This is where I see those of you that support the endings and EC as failing to understand the rest of us.  We do not feel as if the theme makes sense, and we're asking for optional DLC that would change it for us. 

Yes, the DLC would be available for everyone. However much like those people who are not buying the Levi DLC, if you don't want the endings changed, you don't actually have to do anything. Just leave the game as it is. It's those of us that want changes that would have to persue the DLC, and to download it.

That is not just my interpritation of the game. This is literal. Has it accured to you that there is more then one way to get the assets need to beat the reapers. I have many ways to get it, both that can be seen morilty good or bad. If  do just moraly bad ways to get the assits, I still beat the reapers. If i just do morily good ways to get the assits...I still beat the reapers.

What does that mean?

lol do you understand what literal is? or what interpretation is? the concepts are mutually exclusive. 

Literal, the game has choices. In the end effect (especially with the game as written) these choices mean nothing. There is no real change to the outcome of the game.  You may as well flip a coin for all that it matters.

Interpretation, why we make those choices. What those choices mean to US the players. How we perceive the game and it's interactions. 

Taken literally this game offers nothing more than CoD, GoW or any other FPS. You may as well have played it with out any decision making options (hey that style of play was actually supported wasn't it?).

Interpretively this game is head and shoulders above those FPS games. Not because there are choices, those are nothing more than the mechanism allowing us to make interpretations. But because it allows, and invokes those interpretations on a personal level. 

You missed my point. If I can beat the reapers by getting assiiets only from morily bad choices and I can beat the reapers getting assiets only form morily good chioces ...What does that mean?

[clennon8]

Here's my plea to Bioware. Finish your Omega thingamajig if you have to, and then close up shop on ME3. Take your beating and do better next time.

[plfranke]

Xellith wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I know that the number of disgruntled players is very, very large.  What BioWare risks in not addressing these issues is its uniqueness as a developer. 

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If the TARP study is correct, and the bioware poll is accurate, then this equates to 1761864 people who are dissatisfied with the ME3 ending.  Basically put - half (or more) are upset with the ME3 ending (before EC was introduced at least)

And while some fans have been placated by the extended cut, I stil believe a great majority would prefer the ending had been done differently.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Xellith wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I know that the number of disgruntled players is very, very large.  What BioWare risks in not addressing these issues is its uniqueness as a developer. 

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If the TARP study is correct, and the bioware poll is accurate, then this equates to 1761864 people who are dissatisfied with the ME3 ending.  Basically put - half (or more) are upset with the ME3 ending (before EC was introduced at least)

Virtually every poll on BSN suggests just what you say.  My conversation with several retail stores corroborates this conclusion.  In addition, retailers say that the fans most irritated by the endings were those who pre-ordered the game or stood in line on release night, i.e. BioWare's most loyal customers.

[plfranke]

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You do realize they've already stated that beyond the EC they don't plan to change the endings. Maybe adjust dialog (like they did with Leviathan), which I'd expect. But you're never going to get a full adjustment. You're going to have to accept the endings as they are.

...And they also said that they wouldn't change the endings before the EC, after which they retconned major plot points and provided us with a 4th option. 

I may not have the same views as the OP with regard to everything I'd like to see in future DLC, but I hope this stays on the front page. 

And I for one don't expect everyone to agree-diversity is a great concept.  As are redemption, unity, self-reliance, independence, autonomy, and so on.  I felt that the endings ripped all of these things from the story.  In the end, I want Bioware to answer this-pick any ending and ask yourself if that was what you were fighting for.  Pick any ending and ask, who in ME wanted that.  The heart, the emotional bond with the main character is paramount in any story and the reader or player must feel compelled to have the character do certain things.  The heart must be maintained.

That's your interpertaion of thegame. Not the literal one. The theme of ME was to question the play of what lenghts  they would go to stop an unstopple force. The ending does not go ageinst that concept.

Which is your interpretation of the game. The beauty of ME was that it involved the players in ways that most other games fail to do. Becuase of this involvement no ones interpretation of the "theme" of ME is incorrect. This is where I see those of you that support the endings and EC as failing to understand the rest of us.  We do not feel as if the theme makes sense, and we're asking for optional DLC that would change it for us. 

Yes, the DLC would be available for everyone. However much like those people who are not buying the Levi DLC, if you don't want the endings changed, you don't actually have to do anything. Just leave the game as it is. It's those of us that want changes that would have to persue the DLC, and to download it.

That is not just my interpritation of the game. This is literal. Has it accured to you that there is more then one way to get the assets need to beat the reapers. I have many ways to get it, both that can be seen morilty good or bad. If  do just moraly bad ways to get the assits, I still beat the reapers. If i just do morily good ways to get the assits...I still beat the reapers.

What does that mean?

lol do you understand what literal is? or what interpretation is? the concepts are mutually exclusive. 

Literal, the game has choices. In the end effect (especially with the game as written) these choices mean nothing. There is no real change to the outcome of the game.  You may as well flip a coin for all that it matters.

Interpretation, why we make those choices. What those choices mean to US the players. How we perceive the game and it's interactions. 

Taken literally this game offers nothing more than CoD, GoW or any other FPS. You may as well have played it with out any decision making options (hey that style of play was actually supported wasn't it?).

Interpretively this game is head and shoulders above those FPS games. Not because there are choices, those are nothing more than the mechanism allowing us to make interpretations. But because it allows, and invokes those interpretations on a personal level. 

You missed my point. If I can beat the reapers by getting assiiets only from morily bad choices and I can beat the reapers getting assiets only form morily good chioces ...What does that mean?

dude for the love of all that is good, your terrible arguments are one thing to suffer through but can you please read your stuff before you submit it? It's like a vorcha wrote it.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I can fully agree with your OP, 3DandBeyond. Well said. You word what I mean when I say that the ending is completely detached from the main game and it feels like it was created by another company who forgot to read the script. That's how extreme it is.

If there is a cyclical maniacal genocidal "ascension through destruction" reproduction method used by the reapers to get them on top of the food chain for the last billion years then I want an ending in which those sociopaths are defeated or destroyed. But not one which does that, but also requires yet another genocide. Genocide is not a sacrifice. It's genocide. Cooperating with the reapers after selecting control feels like a betrayal to Shepard's allies, because he/she implicitly condones the reapers' atrocities and keeps the harvest infrastructure ready for whatever situation the new undead reaper dictator sees fit. Shepard simply has become the new catalyst. It is also an insane thing to do, because minutes before that you either shoot TIM or he commits suicide because of his urge to control. In synthesis Shepard not only forces everyone to cooperate with them, but the reapers are even the saviors of the galaxy. Shepard dies and they won. In the last billion years the interference of the reapers by committing cyclical atrocities is the most insane form of violating the right of self-determination of anyone involved. And yet, synthesis is doing that again, by invoking synthesis without the consent of everyone involved - there is no opt-in and the opt-out is death. Even refuse is forcing a delay of one of the three options to the next cycle. In the mean-time everyone is exterminated.

One can only use head canon to make any sense of the four options. The same goes for the hypothetical synthetics threat in which you have to believe in like a religion. A religion in which the brat is its prophet and its creators are its gods and the threat its holy script. Without any rationalization the three main options are solutions to a non-existent problem, because organics were perfectly capable of solving the issues related to synthetics - even when the reapers turned those synthetics against organics.

And yet Levi's DLC continues on the same route by making the leviathans (gods with similar powers as reapers) a threat in destroy and control and perhaps even in synthesis.

This game is about death and there is no victory. I am not interested in that victory in ME4, because the trilogy was supposed to end in ME3. There is no use in porting that madness to ME4, because ME3 will go into history as the game where the legendary Shepard had no way to win.

In my games Stargazer was wrong. Shepard will live on in the legend of the war criminal who lost the reaper/leviathan war.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 30 août 2012 - 06:11 .

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Here's my plea to Bioware.

Do not do any more ending DLC, all remaining DLC should be for those who enjoy the game not spending all your time and money trying to please people who still hate it after EC. I do not want a pew pew fight with Harbinger and conventional victory is a big NO. Refuse ending should always equal loss not win.

Thanks

Lucky me, it looks like Bioware agree's with me.

I said it before and will say it again, Bioware make games they want to make and hope you enjoy them. This does not equal you have to enjoy everything they make and they are not required to fulfill your every desire in every title they make.

I just love how you've been trying to bash people's threads lately

[plfranke]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I know that the number of disgruntled players is very, very large.  What BioWare risks in not addressing these issues is its uniqueness as a developer. 

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If the TARP study is correct, and the bioware poll is accurate, then this equates to 1761864 people who are dissatisfied with the ME3 ending.  Basically put - half (or more) are upset with the ME3 ending (before EC was introduced at least)

Virtually every poll on BSN suggests just what you say.  My conversation with several retail stores corroborates this conclusion.  In addition, retailers say that the fans most irritated by the endings were those who pre-ordered the game or stood in line on release night, i.e. BioWare's most loyal customers.

You also have to take into account the only people who are still discussing the ending are those who still have a shred of hope left in Bioware. Those that hated it enough to give up on them left a long time ago.

[plfranke]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Here's my plea to Bioware.

Do not do any more ending DLC, all remaining DLC should be for those who enjoy the game not spending all your time and money trying to please people who still hate it after EC. I do not want a pew pew fight with Harbinger and conventional victory is a big NO. Refuse ending should always equal loss not win.

Thanks

Lucky me, it looks like Bioware agree's with me.

I said it before and will say it again, Bioware make games they want to make and hope you enjoy them. This does not equal you have to enjoy everything they make and they are not required to fulfill your every desire in every title they make.

I just love how you've been trying to bash people's threads lately

Sadly these are the people that Bioware is giving in to.

[Applepie_Svk]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Here's my plea to Bioware.

Do not do any more ending DLC, all remaining DLC should be for those who enjoy the game not spending all your time and money trying to please people who still hate it after EC. I do not want a pew pew fight with Harbinger and conventional victory is a big NO. Refuse ending should always equal loss not win.

Thanks

Lucky me, it looks like Bioware agree's with me.

Lot of those which now enjoying the game with you on your sandpit have this enjoyment only because of the Hold The Line, charity, cupcakes - backlash of ME3 original ending, without this intervention there would be just a few happy fans which loved vision of nihilistic leap into unkown.

Fans which are still angry, are there because some "artist" thought it was good to rape the universe of ME and change it into some abomination which is far away from quality of previous games, these fans are also angry because BioWare lied many times and now they are locking themselves on their air castle of artistic vision, denying the failure of ME3.

What´s make me laugh that BioWare selling you the part of core theme in order to "give you more answers - which should be already in game" and you are thanking them for it, it´s open approval of that they released unfinished product.

:mellow:This exchange is over:mellow:

[LadyWench]

dreman9999 wrote...

That is not waht the catalyst is saying. He said their will alway be conflictwith organics  and synthetics. Not that they can't coexist The catalyst issue is that he wnts an absolute solution. A perfect solution.
The results of the geth/quarian conflict does not mean that conflict can't happen later. Anyone can say they are together now because of the reaper conflict. Nothing garuntees that the peace will last later on.

How do you not get that the catalyst is a being that is only satisfied when it contrls everything. Add that it just a machine doing what it is told. It wants perfection and will not stop till it get it...Get a Clu....(Tron:legacy referance.)

The problem here is that organics cause the problm because they enslave synthetics with programing and try to force the syntetic to be slaves. Thecatalyst understood that and went to impose on to orgainc think by cahnging them to a new form of life, a reaper....But it was imperfect and he keep looking to improve it. The fact that the results ofth egeth /quarian conflict is  ont garunteed to last is all the info it need to reap them. The catalyst wants a perfect solution that is 100% garunteed.

I'm sorry, I still think you're misunderstanding what I am saying because the arguments you are using against me don't seem relevant to what was originally being said.
I agree that:
-the Catalyst is an inflexible control freak
-the Catalyst has been tooling around with organics for many cycles in a way that, while it makes logical sense to it, is ethically abhorrent to organic thinking
-that just because Geth and Quarians are getting along after Shep doesn't mean they won't find a reason to fight later

What I don't think:
-that the Catalyst is a good plot device
-that the choices Shep is given to "end" the conflict (i.e. the game and whole series) are sound, morally or story-telling wise
-that the endings of the game are properly tied in to the real themes of ME, which is diversity is good and that the galaxy DOES have a fighting chance, no matter how slim, of winning against the Reapers conventionally (which is what I was talking about when this conversation got derailed into....whatever this is now)

Modifié par LadyWench, 30 août 2012 - 06:14 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

plfranke wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Xellith wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

I know that the number of disgruntled players is very, very large.  What BioWare risks in not addressing these issues is its uniqueness as a developer. 

According to studies done by the Technical Assistance Research Programs (TARP), for every irritated customer who complains, 26 do not, even though they have grievances. That means that if a company receives 10 customer complaints, there are probably 260 customers out there who have complaints but don’t voice them…at least not to the company. The reality is you probably don’t know how many dissatisfied customers you have because DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS DO NOT COMPLAIN.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

If the TARP study is correct, and the bioware poll is accurate, then this equates to 1761864 people who are dissatisfied with the ME3 ending.  Basically put - half (or more) are upset with the ME3 ending (before EC was introduced at least)

Virtually every poll on BSN suggests just what you say.  My conversation with several retail stores corroborates this conclusion.  In addition, retailers say that the fans most irritated by the endings were those who pre-ordered the game or stood in line on release night, i.e. BioWare's most loyal customers.

You also have to take into account the only people who are still discussing the ending are those who still have a shred of hope left in Bioware. Those that hated it enough to give up on them left a long time ago.

Exactly. 

But good, positive reactions from this dedicated group of fans could bring many back to the franchise.  And set BioWare up well for future installments.

[dreman9999]

plfranke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You do realize they've already stated that beyond the EC they don't plan to change the endings. Maybe adjust dialog (like they did with Leviathan), which I'd expect. But you're never going to get a full adjustment. You're going to have to accept the endings as they are.

...And they also said that they wouldn't change the endings before the EC, after which they retconned major plot points and provided us with a 4th option. 

I may not have the same views as the OP with regard to everything I'd like to see in future DLC, but I hope this stays on the front page. 

And I for one don't expect everyone to agree-diversity is a great concept.  As are redemption, unity, self-reliance, independence, autonomy, and so on.  I felt that the endings ripped all of these things from the story.  In the end, I want Bioware to answer this-pick any ending and ask yourself if that was what you were fighting for.  Pick any ending and ask, who in ME wanted that.  The heart, the emotional bond with the main character is paramount in any story and the reader or player must feel compelled to have the character do certain things.  The heart must be maintained.

That's your interpertaion of thegame. Not the literal one. The theme of ME was to question the play of what lenghts  they would go to stop an unstopple force. The ending does not go ageinst that concept.

Which is your interpretation of the game. The beauty of ME was that it involved the players in ways that most other games fail to do. Becuase of this involvement no ones interpretation of the "theme" of ME is incorrect. This is where I see those of you that support the endings and EC as failing to understand the rest of us.  We do not feel as if the theme makes sense, and we're asking for optional DLC that would change it for us. 

Yes, the DLC would be available for everyone. However much like those people who are not buying the Levi DLC, if you don't want the endings changed, you don't actually have to do anything. Just leave the game as it is. It's those of us that want changes that would have to persue the DLC, and to download it.

That is not just my interpritation of the game. This is literal. Has it accured to you that there is more then one way to get the assets need to beat the reapers. I have many ways to get it, both that can be seen morilty good or bad. If  do just moraly bad ways to get the assits, I still beat the reapers. If i just do morily good ways to get the assits...I still beat the reapers.

What does that mean?

lol do you understand what literal is? or what interpretation is? the concepts are mutually exclusive. 

Literal, the game has choices. In the end effect (especially with the game as written) these choices mean nothing. There is no real change to the outcome of the game.  You may as well flip a coin for all that it matters.

Interpretation, why we make those choices. What those choices mean to US the players. How we perceive the game and it's interactions. 

Taken literally this game offers nothing more than CoD, GoW or any other FPS. You may as well have played it with out any decision making options (hey that style of play was actually supported wasn't it?).

Interpretively this game is head and shoulders above those FPS games. Not because there are choices, those are nothing more than the mechanism allowing us to make interpretations. But because it allows, and invokes those interpretations on a personal level. 

You missed my point. If I can beat the reapers by getting assiiets only from morily bad choices and I can beat the reapers getting assiets only form morily good chioces ...What does that mean?

dude for the love of all that is good, your terrible arguments are one thing to suffer through but can you please read your stuff before you submit it? It's like a vorcha wrote it.

How is this a bad argurment? You can beat the reapers with just war asseists form moraly bad choices. Same with the asseist form moraly good choice.
There is nothing wrong with my point.

[JamieCOTC]

Kel Riever wrote...

There is a difference between a not happy ending and awful writing.

The problem with ME3 ending(s) is awful writing. And once you get through the awful writing, you could then accuse them of being dumb for not having a happy ending option.

But if they had non-stupid faux choices, with p*ss poor writing, and a pure lack of paying attention to their own story, even within the story of ME3, even if the endings were not happy endings, they would have been well received. They are not.

The endings suck. And not because they might be considered just unhappy.

Pretty much. 

[Gogzilla]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I want to appeal to Bioware, one last time to please reconsider all this.  The endings as they are ask many of us to do things we cannot in all good conscience do and so they ruin what has been the favorite game of all time for many of us.  Many of us have said this repeatedly-the endings are genocide, totalitarianism, and forced eugenics, along with suicide.

I mean this from the heart and I'm just asking, not demanding and merely stating my opinions and preferences.  I mean no insult to anyone, but though I am stating my opinions, I think many others share them.

What caused me to write is this: I have quite a few friends on my friend's list here (not saying this to be arrogant, just pointing something out), and no 2 people come from the same backgrounds or experiences or even very similar ones.  I am so lucky.  But, what it reminds me of is the lack of understanding and appreciation for the fans that Bioware somehow managed to get to love their games.  This is important.  It transcends many other things.  There are people from all over the globe and of all ages and of all political, religious, ethnic, racial, and sexual orientation and alignment.  There are people who have had trouble in life who love(d) these games.  And there are people that have loved a good story, writers, literary critics, literary professors, and just plain folks who have loved these games.  What Bioware had was gold.  I'd say it's due to the heart that the games had.  It was the idea that no matter how bad things got in the game, there was a way to overcome it.  The games reinforced what people would like to be in their real lives-the hero and even the superhero.  This has been squandered for a CoD-like experience. 

Well, I'll repeat what I've said before, if I wanted a CoD-type SP and MP game, I'd play CoD games.  If I want a huge story based game with not so fully developed characters, I'd play Bethesda games.  But, if I want a story that allows me to be in it and to show my character has a heart or is a ruthless renegade, I'd go for ME every time.  And, more than anything, even given all the other unfinished games I have, I'd pick ME and a new Shepard every time over them.

But these endings made me hate ME, not because the games are bad and not because ME3 is bad.  It has some of the, no it has the most poignant moments of any game I've ever played and some of the most of any movie or book I've ever read.  Tuchanka and Mordin get me every time.  But, as someone whose lived a lot of life so far and whose parents served in the Canadian military in WWII, whose uncle was under age and lied about it to fight against the things that this game's endings force me to decide between, I don't feel the heart of ME at the end of ME3.  I'm sorry, but it does come down to being forced into genocide, totalitarianism, or forced eugenics on an uninformed galaxy.  It's a game.  This isn't uplifting or fun.  Why can't you talk about this and let us in on what you were going for, if not this?  If you were trying to make a political statement or a religious one, why do it here?  Let us play and finish the game.

My appeal is this: pay attention to the DLC people are begging you to create and sense the theme there.  Sure, you're free to run your company as you wish, but you asked for all this.  You made us care and then you dropped us like radioactive sludge.  Funny thing is, you misunderstand us still.  You don't get it that we still do care.  We still are asking for an ME4 but can't see it if you do nothing to fix this ME.  People are asking you for reunion DLC and ME2 squadmates' DLC and more romance DLC.  Go back and look at youtube vids prior to the ME3 ending debacle.  Most of them centered on the characters and all that they were doing.  There weren't a lot of "look at my new cool gun" videos-they were "full dialogue and romance between Liara and Shepard" and "romancing Tali" and "Garrus, my bro".  It was more about Mordin's sacrifice than it was about coolness.  And the requests for Omega DLC-what are people asking for with that?  More time with Aria.  Why do people care about Omega?  It's not because it's beautiful-it was Bladerunner dark.  It's because of Aria and Patriarch and so on.  Please understand this.

In making Shepard choose those current endings and not giving people one truly satisfying ending that is the result of people truly uniting and lifting themselves up, you have ruined Shepard for many of us.  In leaving Shepard in a heap in the only possible way for Shepard to live, after committing an unconscionable act, you are seeming to show disdain for fans and for Shepard.  In adding refuse, which has the true Shepard back again, you are proving that people are just plainly incompetent and will fail.  Please share with us what you mean by all this.  It's not fun.

I don't hate you, but I've been called a hater, a whiner, a complainer, and worse.  I'm a human being with feelings and ME appealed to my feelings.  I loved it and loved you for creating it.  I do hate what you did to it.  I hate what you seem to be saying about the aspirations, goals, and the ideals of people.  You seem to be saying that people will always only ever choose the easy way out, even if this includes ruining all that they hold dear to get it.  I truly wish you had chosen someone without depression issues to write ME3's ending.

What I wish you would do is use DLC to add onto the endings to make one ending that will achieve the goal of destroying the reapers, viable and attainable.  Along with that, I wish you would make it possible for Shepard to be alive in the end and have a true, even if quick reunion with friends and LI, and cutscenes, an epilogue of Shepard helping in the unity needed for rebuilding and for the galaxy to get its heart and soul back again after the reapers nearly destroyed all that.  I wish you would consider an ME4, not connected to ME3 with characters and story and such, but one that would refer to the events of ME3 and reapers and Shepard from time to time.  In short, I wish you would consider continuing to make these kinds of games and not go for Call of Duty:ME or just single games-you have a unique type of game and what I think you need is to better balance action and story.  Don't abandon the truly wonderful thing you have created, but don't underestimate the strength of the simpler story and resolution.  You don't have to try to be Kubrick or to look for "art", you had it in the game itself in the stories and in the characters.  You needed to work more with that and not throw everything into the ending and call it art.

I wish you would further consider those requests for post-ME3 DLC for those who want it (and I think there would be many) for reunions and the like.  Consider it.  I think you are missing out on the cash cow that you could have had by not adhering to the world you created.  Play your own games and see what they say and talk to people here.

I know this is all water under the bridge, but Bioware still does have a chance with DLC.  And to stave off complaints from those who would get made about having to pay for it, maybe they could release one last patch for free that wouldn't contain the story content of the DLC, but that would allow those that want it to get the additional dialogue, cutscenes, and EMS to get the "final" endings.  I'd either like to see the Puzzle Theory or my own similar theory be correct, but just anything that results in a possible win ending that would make the game fun again.

I understand this would mean you'd have to change your minds again, but I consider it "doing the right thing".  It wouldn't have to be something everyone would be forced into playing or having, but it would just exist for those that want it.  Games and stories that have always shown people trying to rise above and do better, should have endings that reflect that and reward that.  Please.

To sum it up "i don't like the endings, i am not the only one"
Can i haz return of the jedi ending plz

Any one of a differnt opnnion should be ignored right.

[plfranke]

dreman9999 wrote...

plfranke wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You do realize they've already stated that beyond the EC they don't plan to change the endings. Maybe adjust dialog (like they did with Leviathan), which I'd expect. But you're never going to get a full adjustment. You're going to have to accept the endings as they are.

...And they also said that they wouldn't change the endings before the EC, after which they retconned major plot points and provided us with a 4th option. 

I may not have the same views as the OP with regard to everything I'd like to see in future DLC, but I hope this stays on the front page. 

And I for one don't expect everyone to agree-diversity is a great concept.  As are redemption, unity, self-reliance, independence, autonomy, and so on.  I felt that the endings ripped all of these things from the story.  In the end, I want Bioware to answer this-pick any ending and ask yourself if that was what you were fighting for.  Pick any ending and ask, who in ME wanted that.  The heart, the emotional bond with the main character is paramount in any story and the reader or player must feel compelled to have the character do certain things.  The heart must be maintained.

That's your interpertaion of thegame. Not the literal one. The theme of ME was to question the play of what lenghts  they would go to stop an unstopple force. The ending does not go ageinst that concept.

Which is your interpretation of the game. The beauty of ME was that it involved the players in ways that most other games fail to do. Becuase of this involvement no ones interpretation of the "theme" of ME is incorrect. This is where I see those of you that support the endings and EC as failing to understand the rest of us.  We do not feel as if the theme makes sense, and we're asking for optional DLC that would change it for us. 

Yes, the DLC would be available for everyone. However much like those people who are not buying the Levi DLC, if you don't want the endings changed, you don't actually have to do anything. Just leave the game as it is. It's those of us that want changes that would have to persue the DLC, and to download it.

That is not just my interpritation of the game. This is literal. Has it accured to you that there is more then one way to get the assets need to beat the reapers. I have many ways to get it, both that can be seen morilty good or bad. If  do just moraly bad ways to get the assits, I still beat the reapers. If i just do morily good ways to get the assits...I still beat the reapers.

What does that mean?

lol do you understand what literal is? or what interpretation is? the concepts are mutually exclusive. 

Literal, the game has choices. In the end effect (especially with the game as written) these choices mean nothing. There is no real change to the outcome of the game.  You may as well flip a coin for all that it matters.

Interpretation, why we make those choices. What those choices mean to US the players. How we perceive the game and it's interactions. 

Taken literally this game offers nothing more than CoD, GoW or any other FPS. You may as well have played it with out any decision making options (hey that style of play was actually supported wasn't it?).

Interpretively this game is head and shoulders above those FPS games. Not because there are choices, those are nothing more than the mechanism allowing us to make interpretations. But because it allows, and invokes those interpretations on a personal level. 

You missed my point. If I can beat the reapers by getting assiiets only from morily bad choices and I can beat the reapers getting assiets only form morily good chioces ...What does that mean?

dude for the love of all that is good, your terrible arguments are one thing to suffer through but can you please read your stuff before you submit it? It's like a vorcha wrote it.

How is this a bad argurment? You can beat the reapers with just war asseists form moraly bad choices. Same with the asseist form moraly good choice.
There is nothing wrong with my point.

I've never met someone here before that I literally thought wasn't worth my time to speak to or even acknowledge. You dreman have become the first. Good day to you.

[Warrior Craess]

dreman9999 wrote...

You missed my point. If I can beat the reapers by getting assiiets only from morily bad choices and I can beat the reapers getting assiets only form morily good chioces ...What does that mean?

if thats all that you get out of ME, it means you should have chosen the no dialog option, and stuck with playing a FPS.

Thankfull that option still exists for you. 


Now how about an option that allows for those of us that played it for the interpretive value?

Modifié par Warrior Craess, 30 août 2012 - 06:24 .

[Applepie_Svk]

Stop that ziggurats...

[Ithurael]

guys easy on the quote pyramids...this thread will be locked if you continue

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Here's my plea to Bioware.

Do not do any more ending DLC, all remaining DLC should be for those who enjoy the game not spending all your time and money trying to please people who still hate it after EC. I do not want a pew pew fight with Harbinger and conventional victory is a big NO. Refuse ending should always equal loss not win.

Thanks

Lucky me, it looks like Bioware agree's with me.

I said it before and will say it again, Bioware make games they want to make and hope you enjoy them. This does not equal you have to enjoy everything they make and they are not required to fulfill your every desire in every title they make.

I just love how you've been trying to bash people's threads lately

I mentioned no person in my response. I mentioned nothing about the OP, I gave my version of what I wanted in contrast what you and others want. But keep believing what you wish, if you create a thread on a public forum do not whine when others take part in it who have a different opinion.

[dreman9999]

LadyWench wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

That is not waht the catalyst is saying. He said their will alway be conflictwith organics  and synthetics. Not that they can't coexist The catalyst issue is that he wnts an absolute solution. A perfect solution.
The results of the geth/quarian conflict does not mean that conflict can't happen later. Anyone can say they are together now because of the reaper conflict. Nothing garuntees that the peace will last later on.

How do you not get that the catalyst is a being that is only satisfied when it contrls everything. Add that it just a machine doing what it is told. It wants perfection and will not stop till it get it...Get a Clu....(Tron:legacy referance.)

The problem here is that organics cause the problm because they enslave synthetics with programing and try to force the syntetic to be slaves. Thecatalyst understood that and went to impose on to orgainc think by cahnging them to a new form of life, a reaper....But it was imperfect and he keep looking to improve it. The fact that the results ofth egeth /quarian conflict is  ont garunteed to last is all the info it need to reap them. The catalyst wants a perfect solution that is 100% garunteed.

I'm sorry, I still think you'remisunderstanding what I am saying because the arguments you are using against me I still don't see how it is relevant to what was originally being said.
I agree that:
-the Catalyst is an inflexible control freak.
-the Catalyst hasbeen tooling around with organics for many cycles in a way that, while it makes logical sense to it, is ethically abhorrent to organic thinking
-that just because Geth and Quarians are getting along after Shep doesn't mean they won't find a reason to fight later

What I don't think:
-that the Catalyst is a good plot device
-that the choices Shep is given to "end" the conflict (i.e. the game and whole series) are good, morally or story-telling wise
-that the endings of the game are properly tied in to the real themes of ME, which is diversity is good and that the galaxy DOES have a fighting chance, no matter how slim, of winning against the Reapers conventionally (which is what I was talking about when this conversation got derailed into....whatever this is now)

1. It you get that that catalyst is an inflexible control freak then you understand why the geth/quarian conflit whould not be seen to him as a solution.

2."that the Catalyst is a good plot device..."
That's you opinion. In reality it just like Virgil in the end of ME1.

3."that the choices Shep is given to "end" the conflict (i.e. the game and whole series) are good, morally or story-telling wise"
We are going in circles. The concept of the story is what leanghts the player is willing to go to stop an unstopable force. The last 3 choice don't go ageinst  that.

4.that the endings of the game are properly tied in to the real themes of ME, which is diversity is good and that the galaxy DOES have a fighting chance, no matter how slim, of winning against the Reapers conventionally (which is what I was talking about when this conversation got derailed into....whatever this is now)

That was not realy the games theme nor what the ending is about. It was never stted or evern pointed to that convention victory was possible. If fact it was stated it was notpassible in ME1 by Virgil.  If fact, their is nothing wrong with betting the reapersin an unconvertional way, why is that an issue? What was stated that the reapers can't be stopped and we stopped them any way, why does it matter that itwas not in a conventional way?
Whay does it have to be a conventional way?

[Dragoonlordz]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Here's my plea to Bioware.

Do not do any more ending DLC, all remaining DLC should be for those who enjoy the game not spending all your time and money trying to please people who still hate it after EC. I do not want a pew pew fight with Harbinger and conventional victory is a big NO. Refuse ending should always equal loss not win.

Thanks

Lucky me, it looks like Bioware agree's with me.

Lot of those which now enjoying the game with you on your sandpit have this enjoyment only because of the Hold The Line, charity, cupcakes - backlash of ME3 original ending, without this intervention there would be just a few happy fans which loved vision of nihilistic leap into unkown.

Fans which are still angry, are there because some "artist" thought it was good to rape the universe of ME and change it into some abomination which is far away from quality of previous games, these fans are also angry because BioWare lied many times and now they are locking themselves on their air castle of artistic vision, denying the failure of ME3.

What´s make me laugh that BioWare selling you the part of core theme in order to "give you more answers - which should be already in game" and you are thanking them for it, it´s open approval of that they released unfinished product.

:mellow:This exchange is over:mellow:

Wrong. I liked the ending prior to EC.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Stop that ziggurats...

Rofl, great analogy for quote pyramids.