6432 réponses à ce sujet

[IamDanThaMan]

plfranke wrote...

Xellith wrote...

So people who dont understand synthesis are paraphrasing "dumb" because we didnt pick up seondary material to explain everything?

Sounds legit.

Even worst, his quote does absolutely nothing to hint at synthesis being possible. I mean, just think about it, if all it took were Reaper nanites, the Reapers could have gotten Synthesis knocked out a long time ago.

Play the end of the game again. The catalyst says it was not possible until the crucible was combined with the citadel. Also, Shepard was needed to provide a blue-print.

Seriously, this is not a big leap. I figured this out before the EC even came out, and with the EC, it is even more obvious. YOu are just trying to refute it because it disproves your point.

PS. I am very much enjoying the fact that I totally derailed this thread and that it is now about the explanation of synthesis.

[3DandBeyond]

IamDanThaMan wrote...


Umm, yes, I explained that all last night about 5 minutes after you asked me to, along with explaning that your genius reaper IFF idea would get the normandy and everyone aboard blown into multiple bits.

Did you not even watch the ending? Oh that's right, you turned it off and let the reapers win. The crucible uses the relay network to disseminate the nanites(the relays were built by the reapers, in case you missed that one in every game). Nanites are self-replicating, so if even one enters the atmosphere of a planet, the entire planet can become infected.

You also apparently were not paying attention during the reaper IFF mission in ME2, where it was clearly shown that during the indoctrination process, the minds of those being indoctrinated become linked like a computer network. Now, I imagine the link from synthesis would not be as strong, but it would be enough to share information and understanding omong the population of the galaxy

Synthesis also does not turn organics into robots, it infuses their bodies with cybernetic implants, like Shepard has(his body was broken down to produce a blue-print for synthesis).

Seriously, if you people would just pay attention to the freaking diologue in the freaking games and at least read a plot synopsis of the books online, we would not have all these problems, because it is all very obvious to anyone that has been paying attention.

There's no indication the Normandy is using the IFF anymore (that was only used to "fool" the Omega 4 relay into thinking the Normandy was a reaper) so the crucible could be purposed to just target IFF signatures.

Indoctrination is a  destructive process and requires the proximity of reapers, and they "share" it like mass hysteria in that it causes them to go a bit crazy.

I didn't say it turned organics into robots-I said it doesn't prevent synthetics from becoming killer robots.  Just because they understand (somehow) organics, that no longer exist, doesn't mean they'll like them-they may dislike them more once they see they are not worthy of hero worship.

Seriously, you are pretty much not worth talking to-all you do is insult people. 

[AresKeith]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

1. that are more than one Reaper IFF, so Dee's idea could work without Normandy getting blown up

2. A green energy wave that has Reaper nanites, turns people in a matter of seconds? that sounds like headcanon

3. their minds aren't being linked by Indoctrination

4. Everyone in the Galaxy has their DNA changed not infuses, and don't use that "new framework" excuse because thats even more stupid

5. Your the only person talking about Reaper Nanites

1.So now we can pick and choose which reaper IFFs we can blow up and which ones we can't?
2. Who said it turns people in seconds? It doesn't show how long it took.
3.In the IFF mission? did you even play the game?
4. Yes, but they are still mostly organic.
5. Me, and Drew Karpyshyn, the guy whou came up with the Mass Effect universe, in Mass Effect: Retribution.

1. we get a Reaper IFF from a Reaper Corpse, we have a dead one on Rannoch, and both Palaven and Thessia took down a few Sovereign class Reapers, plus I'm sure TIM had some too since all of Ceberus had Reaper Tech now

2. everyone had green eyes and green lines on their skin after the energy wave hit them

3. no mention of minds being linked, you see people getting controlled

4. they became hybrids

5. I was talking about for Synthesis, your the only one

[IamDanThaMan]

o Ventus wrote...

IamDanThaMan wrote...

I'm sorry, but if you can't make conclusions from obvious evidence and have to beg for an ending that makes sense without any actual thought, that is not my problem. I am just trying to help you inderstand where you are going wrong.

This doesn't make any sense, neither as a reply to my post nor as a standalone statement.

Congratulations.

Learn to speak english, that might help.

[Dragoonlordz]

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as in game information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 septembre 2012 - 10:31 .

[o Ventus]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

IamDanThaMan wrote...

I'm sorry, but if you can't make conclusions from obvious evidence and have to beg for an ending that makes sense without any actual thought, that is not my problem. I am just trying to help you inderstand where you are going wrong.

This doesn't make any sense, neither as a reply to my post nor as a standalone statement.

Congratulations.

Learn to speak english, that might help.

I'm a native English speaker, with German as my second language.

If you're going to criticize me, it needs to have some basis first.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Basically, given what's put in front of us, there is no moral choice.They're all morally bad.

That is exactly the point, just like with Japan in WW2, the choices were either to invade Japan, basically eactly how we had to invade France by storming the beaches of Normandy, resulting in thousands of casualties on both sides and months or years of the war continuing while we blockaded japan and their population starved to death, or drop the atomic bomb, killing thousands, but ending the war quickly.

There was no moral choice, both were morally bad. But there was no other choice, so they made the one they felt would be the best.

I just don't understand how you can all think that there can be some magical choice in war that can just solve the problem without stepping into a morally grey or black area. it just doesn't exist. and you are living in a dream world if you actually think that Bioware should even consider putting that crap into their game.

That would have mattered if a conventional victory was on the table. They pulled that off the table at the beginning of the game.

But what they did was sugar coat two of the endings: Control and Synthesis and make them look morally better because there was a personal sacrifice involved, and the enemy, now looked suddenly like our long lost buddies, helped protect and defend, and rebuild our civilizations, and they gave those who chose them closure for their hero, because they didn't make the tough choice. They weren't going to be around to answer for what they did. Isn't that nice?

Because everyone is going to be so happy that their new reaper buddies are no longer the big bad guys and are now helping them rebuild. "Aw. We're sorry. Here. Let us help you rebuild your house." And everyone is going to be so happy to be green now all because of . And they have Commander Shepard to thank for it, because Shepard decided to try out for the London Olympics in Swan Diving. Not only that, but the new best buddy reapers are rebuilding the cities like people have never seen before. And Johnny has a new girlfriend, Sally the Banshee! Everyone is so happy and smiling except for Shepard's LI or Garrus who puts Shepard's name on the wall.

And they made Destroy so much worse because they made us not only suffer the losses already incurred by our civilizations, which were horrendous and near the breaking point, but also kill one of our allies that we worked hard to gain, sacrifice a crew member, and severely damage the galactic infrastructure to the point where it is going to take not just decades to repair (like in Control and Synthesis), but centuries or longer to repair. It's not like we know how to build these mass relays. We don't, let alone know how they work. We have to rebuild the manufacturing base too, and that was decimated. And we got taunted with a 1/4 second breath, because we chose to destroy the reapers.

It would have been hard enough without losing the Geth and EDI. The Geth could have helped us rebuild and forged an alliance between synthetics and organics like they were doing with the Quarians.

Blue and Green got sugar coated. Red got **** coated. Refuse was more like BW saying "I dare you to pick this."

But it's BW's story. Moral of the story? Go against everything you worked for and you'll be rewarded. Work diligently with integrity, and you'll only get ****ed.

[3DandBeyond]

So, to get back on topic. The endings are what they are. I'm just asking BW to consider adding to them.

Some on here don't like the endings themselves and even say that, but they've indicated that for some reason they don't think it's right to just ask BW to reconsider things. I don't know why this bothers them so much.

The crucible, if intact, might actually only target reaper IFFs or even other reaper specific things.  Sovereign's remains might be used in the future as some adjunct to identify them or destroy might be able to read the indoctrination signal all reapers put out.  This might even be something learned from Leviathan or other data so that the crucible could lock onto it-and as powerful as it is, it might not have to use the relays for this.  That might be a good thing since I don't believe there are relays in every system.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 01 septembre 2012 - 10:35 .

[plfranke]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

[IamDanThaMan]

AresKeith wrote...


1. we get a Reaper IFF from a Reaper Corpse, we have a dead one on Rannoch, and both Palaven and Thessia took down a few Sovereign class Reapers, plus I'm sure TIM had some too since all of Ceberus had Reaper Tech now

2. everyone had green eyes and green lines on their skin after the energy wave hit them

3. no mention of minds being linked, you see people getting controlled

4. they became hybrids

5. I was talking about for Synthesis, your the only one

1.That has nothing to do with his solution that he proposed, those reapers were not killed by targeting reaper IFFs
2.But there is no timeline shown. they could be shown minute or hours after the wave actually hit
3. Maybe YOU see that, bu I don't
4.And?
5.Once again, if you can't make the connection, that's your problem, not mine.

[plfranke]

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, to get back on topic. The endings are what they are. I'm just asking BW to consider adding to them.

Some on here don't like the endings themselves and even say that, but they've indicated that for some reason they don't think it's right to just ask BW to reconsider things. I don't know why this bothers them so much.

Yeah I would like to hear this argument, from someone civil, if possible. I don't know why everyone has to be a tough guy on the internet.

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, to get back on topic. The endings are what they are. I'm just asking BW to consider adding to them.

Some on here don't like the endings themselves and even say that, but they've indicated that for some reason they don't think it's right to just ask BW to reconsider things. I don't know why this bothers them so much.

The crucible, if intact, might actually only target reaper IFFs or even other reaper specific things.  Sovereign's remains might be used in the future as some adjunct to identify them or destroy might be able to read the indoctrination signal all reapers put out.  This might even be something learned from Leviathan or other data so that the crucible could lock onto it-and as powerful as it is, it might not have to use the relays for this.  That might be a good thing since I don't believe there are relays in every system.

and asking Bioware to do through by pre-ending DLC isn't a bad thing either, it looks a win-win to me

[3DandBeyond]

plfranke wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

I agree.  A book is not in game information.  People buy games to play those games.  The other stuff should be extraneous and not needed to make sense of the game they bought.  Nor should twitter be used like that-just as MP was criticized for being needed for SP, books should not be needed.

[3DandBeyond]

plfranke wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

So, to get back on topic. The endings are what they are. I'm just asking BW to consider adding to them.

Some on here don't like the endings themselves and even say that, but they've indicated that for some reason they don't think it's right to just ask BW to reconsider things. I don't know why this bothers them so much.

Yeah I would like to hear this argument, from someone civil, if possible. I don't know why everyone has to be a tough guy on the internet.

Exactly, they act like I'm asking them to give up their game and their firstborn or something.  I'm asking for content I'm willing to pay for.  Wow am I ever bad.

[Dragoonlordz]

plfranke wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

People may not have imported data from ME1 or ME2 but that does not mean they should not be able to decide things in game which reference what happened in those previous titles. Same principle. Maybe pick that choice if know about the book information or could just pick it because like the idea behind it or dislike the other choices more. Like I said I do not know much about the synthesis ending because I have never picked it. But the principle behind whether in game or in book I have had experience with as has many others regarding gap between Arrival and starting on Earth.

Do I like that some information about lore of the universe is covered only in books? No, but I understand that I can always read them if ever want to know that infomation.

This is all however a seperate issue to the OP which after all these pages became clear what wants. OP wants a easy option because cannot bring self to pick one of the harder ones. A selection of choices Bioware said from the offset wanted to be hard to choose between within a framework of a bleaker and darker theme for this game compared to the other two titles. The OP said that never even bothered picking a choice because did not like them, being hard to choose was what Bioware wanted to create and it worked. Worked so well in fact the OP couldn't make that choice apparently.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 septembre 2012 - 10:44 .

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

I agree.  A book is not in game information.  People buy games to play those games.  The other stuff should be extraneous and not needed to make sense of the game they bought.  Nor should twitter be used like that-just as MP was criticized for being needed for SP, books should not be needed.

It was not needed to make that choice. It exists if wish to gain more information about the choice but the choice itself is covered in enough detail for many who picked it and of which were a vast amount of people. It is not required information to progress the story, it is additional information if wish to find out about it.

[plfranke]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

People may not have imported data from ME1 or ME2 but that does not mean they should not be able to decide things in game which reference what happened in those previous titles. Same principle. Maybe pick that choice if know about the book information or could just pick it because like the idea behind it or dislike the other choices more. Like I said I do not know much about the synthesis ending because I have never picked it. But the principle behind whether in game or in book I have had experience with as has everyone else regarding gap between Arrival and starting on Earth.

Do I like that some information about lore of the universe is covered only in books? No, but I understand that I can always read them if ever want to know that infomation.

This is all however a seperate issue to the OP which after all these pages became clear what wants. OP wants a easy option because cannot bring self to pick one of the harder ones. A selection of choices Bioware said from the offset wanted to be hard to choose between within a framework of a bleaker and darker theme for this game compared to the other two titles. The OP said that never even bothered picking a choice because did not like them, being hard to choose was what Bioware wanted to create and it worked. Worked so well in fact the OP couldn't make that choice apparently.

This is not the same principle, because those are the games you're talking about, not the books. However, as you said a different topic than the OP.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It was not needed to make that choice. It exists if wish to gain more information about the choice but the choice itself is covered in enough detail for many who picked it and of which were a vast amount of people. It is not required information to progress the story, it is additional information if wish to find out about it.

that is true, but since Mass Effect is much bigger than a video game, it would be cool if they added more info from the books and comics into the game series

[Kesak12]

Good post, bioware please listen to this post for with the game currently i have lost intrest in playing the games (choices dont matter ect.)

[Cyberstrike nTo]

IamDanThaMan wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

He did. read the book before trying to refute someone who did. and it doesn't matter if it is in game or not, it is an official mass effect book.

Nanites are the only possible in-universe explanation for synthesis, therefore, it must be how it was accomplished.

Since technically the first 3 Mass Effect novels are referenced in the games (hell the first two novels Revelation and Ascension are actually IN Mass Effect 2) in dialogue and characters like Sanders and Kai Leng I think IamDanThaMan wins this argument.

[plfranke]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

Being in a book about the universe written by one of the people who created this universe is as much lore as ingame information. Same way events between arrival and starting in on earth is covered in a book about it. That is lore of the franchise as much as whether was shown in game or not. Now would I prefer all such things are shown in game? Yes. But it does not invalidate them as lore for the franchise universe. As for synthesis, I never picked it so I do not care to get into arguments about that but your stance on whether seen in game or not to be valid is pointless.

I didn't say that not being in the game invalidated it, however, the final decision of the game should not be made based on something that is not defined in game, but in a book that players may or may not have read.

I agree.  A book is not in game information.  People buy games to play those games.  The other stuff should be extraneous and not needed to make sense of the game they bought.  Nor should twitter be used like that-just as MP was criticized for being needed for SP, books should not be needed.

It was not needed to make that choice. It exists if wish to gain more information about the choice but the choice itself is covered in enough detail for many who picked it and of which were a vast amount of people. It is not required information to progress the story, it is additional information if wish to find out about it.

So you're saying you're perfectly fine with buying a new game, getting to the end, and being told you have to make choices that make no sense, only to find out that the choices are further explained in a book that is separate from the game?

I would also like to point out that this conversation is completely irrelevant to the OP because nanites in retribution still do not explain synthesis in the least.

[3DandBeyond]

Kesak12 wrote...

Good post, bioware please listen to this post for with the game currently i have lost intrest in playing the games (choices dont matter ect.)

Thanks and I support your tagline. 

[plfranke]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

IamDanThaMan wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

He did. read the book before trying to refute someone who did. and it doesn't matter if it is in game or not, it is an official mass effect book.

Nanites are the only possible in-universe explanation for synthesis, therefore, it must be how it was accomplished.

Since technically the first 3 Mass Effect novels are referenced in the games (hell the first two novels Revelation and Ascension are actually IN Mass Effect 2) in dialogue and characters like Sanders and Kai Leng I think IamDanThaMan wins this argument.

lol he wins the argument even though he's given no evidence whatsoever how nanites would accomplish synthesis.

[Dragoonlordz]

AresKeith wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It was not needed to make that choice. It exists if wish to gain more information about the choice but the choice itself is covered in enough detail for many who picked it and of which were a vast amount of people. It is not required information to progress the story, it is additional information if wish to find out about it.

that is true, but since Mass Effect is much bigger than a video game, it would be cool if they added more info from the books and comics into the game series

If they turned those books into choose your own adventure type I would buy them in a heart beat. Probably be first in line holding a 'take my money' meme placard. However I know the information exists if I chose to buy it. Much like if I want to know what happened in a previous game or reference to such in a latter game I would buy the previous one.

[3DandBeyond]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

IamDanThaMan wrote...

plfranke wrote...

This is still not a definition, it is still not in game, and it does absolutely nothing to make me believe synthesis is possible. Why didn't grayson all of a sudden turn half synthetic?

He did. read the book before trying to refute someone who did. and it doesn't matter if it is in game or not, it is an official mass effect book.

Nanites are the only possible in-universe explanation for synthesis, therefore, it must be how it was accomplished.

Since technically the first 3 Mass Effect novels are referenced in the games (hell the first two novels Revelation and Ascension are actually IN Mass Effect 2) in dialogue and characters like Sanders and Kai Leng I think IamDanThaMan wins this argument.

Referencing them (buying them at a kiosk in ME2) is not the same as their content being in game.  They also make references to Back to the Future, does that mean it's relevant to and in the game?  According the Back to the Future time travelling in Delorean's is possible-I have yet to see that in any ME game.