6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Phantorch2745]

I for one was neutral about how I felt when I first finished ME3, I chose control. The ending felt incomplete and was left to imagine what my paragon Shepard would have done now that the reapers were in his control and found closure in that. When the extended cut came out I was left satisfied to see everything I imagined my Shepard would have done when in control of the Reapers being played out on my television.

After playing the Leviathan DLC I was glad I made the right choice in controlling the Reapers.

TL;DR: I am satisfied on how ME3 turned out.

[katness]

Great post 3D. As always, you sum up what I believe in an organized manner. I've grown rather apathetic towards BW and now just come here out of curiosity. If there was a song to describe my feelings toward Bioware, it would be written and performed by Gotye.

I can't seem to wrap my head around a concept for a 4th installment of ME if it is in any way a sequel. Whatever ending they choose as canon would seem terrible to me. That is if the endings were the way I interpreted them:

control: Reapers are the galactic police that keep conflict from getting out of hand. So, what will make the story interesting without a conflict? Alright guys, we're just going to go explore!!

Or, maybe you just have a Big Brother 1984 thing going on.... Maybe that could be a premise? Thus, the reaper issue is once again a problem.... and commence the reenactment of ME1, ME2, and ME3. Or maybe Shreaper just sees that the syn vs org conflict is inevitable as stated by the assumed infallible star kid, and goes all harvesty on us again. Thus, the cycle repeats...

Synthesis: could have more potential. Now we're hybrids and that just solves our syn vs org problem. I guess there could still be conflicts with turians, krogans, and rachni in this evolved state of being state. But, that would also be a rehash of the previous games. Other than that, it would just be another, "hey guys, there isn't any more enemies so let's just fly around and scan s*@t!" or else a new enemy that would HAVE to be more epic than the Reapers, and that would be pretty hard to accomplish.

Destroy: well, they pretty much set that out for you. We destroy the Reapers and synthetics, but our children will create synthetics who will, as stated by the "infallible" star brat, rise up against organics. Thus, are we doomed to keep killing synthetics for all millenia thus never truly resolving anything? Will we eventually create another AI to find a solution that eventually sees that creating Reapers is the only solution? Thus the cycle repeats? So what is our premise for ME4? We're trying to find a solution to org vs syn? I sorta thought Shepard was taking care of that with the geth and the quarians, but according to the Catalyst (who sorta ignored my big quarian/geth alliance accomplishment) it will happen again.

So, then, what the hell is the purpose of Shepard dying??

Wait... Going off topic....

My point is, the cycle repeats, thus its another rehash of ME1, 2, and 3.

Why would I play this game?? Seems like a waste of money and time for something that I've already played...

Not to mention the middle finger refuse ending. So, we refuse, our cycle is destroyed/harvested. The younger races then discover one of Liara's capsules (just like Shep did on Eden Prime), they find out more about the Reapers (just like Shep), they work to unite against them (just like Shep), and somehow defeat them (just like my Shep should have done or did if the 3 color options rose up as the only solution). Wait... I think I played this game already.....

Yeah, I think ME universe is pretty dead. The only way to save it would maybe be a gritty, darker, reboot series like Spiderman (and we can see how well that worked) or make an entirely new series, or introduce a new antagonist.

My mind now hurts...

[Geneaux486]

A little late, but I did promise to respond to anyone who adressed me, so here we go:

 The point was using that term was meant to be argumentative. I can imagine the crapstorm I'd get if I went into a pro-synthesis thread and said that it would be great if there weren't so many (choose your defamatory term)s who liked synthesis. Oh, but I could just walk it back and say I wasn't calling all of them that name. You know what you did and you did it on purpose to incite and inflame. I've modded forums before for game sites and for game devs, and that kind of stuff happens all the time and is often bannable.

I was careful about my wording and I stated something that is true.  I didn't call all anti-enders liars because I don't believe all anti-enders are liars.  Unless you actually believe that no anti-ender lies about the endings (you yourself do it in your signature) then you have no grounds on which to claim I said something I didn't say.  There is nothing "bannable" about what I said, that's completely absurd.  I saw a thread who's very title contained hyperbolic nonsense and I called it what it was, simple as that.  I was well within my right to do so.

This thread does not speak for all fans, as not all fans accept the bull**** anti-ender hyperbole that in most cases outright lies about what happens in the ending. That is all.

So by your statement anyone that supports this thread supports the anti-ender hyperbole that lies about the ending.

 
The mere fact that you have to alter what I said to get your point across should tell you something.  I said that in most cases the anti-ending hyperbole outright lies.  I said that because it's true.  Saying synthesis is "mass molestation" is a hyperbolic lie.  Saying Shepard is forced to become a god is the same thing.  Have I come across anti-enders that have decent arguments against the ending?  Yes, tons, and they do it by not deliberately misrepresenting what's in the endings and trying to assign a moral value to either side of the debate.  That type of stuff hurts your side's credibility.

Again thank you for insulting us with your very first post on this topic.

And again, I didn't do that.

Why should we listen to anything you have to say if this is your view about us?

I don't care whether or not you choose to listen to me.  I'm putting my thoughts out there same as everyone else.  If you really feel I shouldn't be acknowleged then not responding to me would be a good place to start.

 If you want to engange in healthy debate about what you felt the endings were compared to what we felt they were, I'm sure people would actually enjoy that..

That's what I did.
 

It's been "I'm right, your wrong" from the initial post with you.

I've been clear in identifying what my opinions are, and which points in my argument are based on in-game fact. 

Why is it all the Bioware pro-ender cheerleaders assume we're a small minority?

This is what a blanket statement looks like.  Did I say I thought you were a small minority?  No, my stance is that we have no idea who's in the true majority because there are no reliable statistics that encompass every fan of the game, on and off the BSN, at least not as far as I've seen. 

So everyone is so happy with the game, and that's why it's down to $19.95 at Gamestop, and the guy at my local says they have many used in stock? We're a small minority? Really? Shake your pom poms all you like, you can't change the truth.

Games go through cycles like that all the time.

And sadly, many like me are to the point where we no longer have hope and no longer believe Bioware cares or will do the right thing.

Heh, well if I'm the cheerleader (and I can't say that I feel I embody the qualities of one) then you're certainly the emo kid at this proverbial school.  Bioware's bent over backwards for their fans, and the"right" thing is objective.  The fact is that they'll never be able to satisfy everyone, (case in point, they put in all this extra work and time to attempt to fix the problems with the endings and then give it to us completely free of charge and your response is that they don't care about their fans) but damn if they aren't trying.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[katness]

Is it me, or does it seem that in trying to please everyone with headcannon, Bioware failed to please 60% of it's fanbase? Sorta seemed a cowardice way of doing things.... Like major commitment issues in developer form....

I don't see Bioware working on the ending since the dev team would lose some street cred amongst other gaming companies. They would appear the sell outs to give what a majority of what fans want. Apparently, looking cool to other developers is more important than having a job....

[Reptilian Rob]

Wow, seventy six pages in four days...

Bioware, shut the **** up with your pride and listen.

Just

****ing

Listen

[comrade gando]

katness wrote...

Is it me, or does it seem that in trying to please everyone with headcannon, Bioware failed to please 60% of it's fanbase? Sorta seemed a cowardice way of doing things.... Like major commitment issues in developer form....

I don't see Bioware working on the ending since the dev team would lose some street cred amongst other gaming companies. They would appear the sell outs to give what a majority of what fans want. Apparently, looking cool to other developers is more important than having a job....

idk. upon first seeing this ending the normal emotional response would be rage/confusion. both at being lied to by bioware, and the fact that your entire adventure was rendered null by this 10 minutes of ludicrosity that is the catalyst. never have I seen such inane literary garbage spewed such as what the ME3 lead writer put out in these last 10 minutes.
Then you start noticing all the little details that hint that there is more than meets the eye here. enter IT, a fan (?) theory that attempts to make one last ditch effort to make some sort of sense out of something that frankly makes none. I've read IT theory, and if that's not what the author was intending then, frankly, imo of course, they are straight up retarded.

you have to go out of your way to ruin a series this bad.

[Reptilian Rob]

Thaa_solon wrote...

It's no use

http://www.hark.com/...ard-no-fat-lady

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:45 .

[Jawsomebob]

Do the right thing BIOWARE!

Pleasing your fans is more important then looking cool to other devs.

katness wrote...

Is it me, or does it seem that in trying
to please everyone with headcannon, Bioware failed to please 60% of it's
fanbase? Sorta seemed a cowardice way of doing things.... Like major
commitment issues in developer form....

I don't see Bioware
working on the ending since the dev team would lose some street cred
amongst other gaming companies. They would appear the sell outs to give
what a majority of what fans want. Apparently, looking cool to other
developers is more important than having a job....

Modifié par Jawsomebob, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:55 .

[katness]

It's just, if IT was in fact intended, then BW should come out and verify, preferably in March. But, they have gone pretty out of their way to lead us away from that theory. I don't see any sense in holding out on releasing that information until after most of the fanbase has moved on.

I think Bioware doesn't even listen anymore, they could care less. As long as they get a paycheck, they're fine with losing fans. Even if it means having to systematically let go of "nonessential personnel". Eventually money will talk, but they're not feeling it yet.

[comrade gando]

katness wrote...

It's just, if IT was in fact intended, then BW should come out and verify, preferably in March. But, they have gone pretty out of their way to lead us away from that theory. I don't see any sense in holding out on releasing that information until after most of the fanbase has moved on.

I think Bioware doesn't even listen anymore, they could care less. As long as they get a paycheck, they're fine with losing fans. Even if it means having to systematically let go of "nonessential personnel". Eventually money will talk, but they're not feeling it yet.

well they did want "lots of speculation from everyone". while at the same time talking about "clarity and closure". you can't have closure and speculation you knuckleheads. it doesn't make any sense! start making sense! it's been grinding in my brain for 6 months now graahhhh

[Zan51]

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

Modifié par Zan51, 03 septembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[Moirai]

comrade gando wrote...

katness wrote...

It's just, if IT was in fact intended, then BW should come out and verify, preferably in March. But, they have gone pretty out of their way to lead us away from that theory. I don't see any sense in holding out on releasing that information until after most of the fanbase has moved on.

I think Bioware doesn't even listen anymore, they could care less. As long as they get a paycheck, they're fine with losing fans. Even if it means having to systematically let go of "nonessential personnel". Eventually money will talk, but they're not feeling it yet.

well they did want "lots of speculation from everyone". while at the same time talking about "clarity and closure". you can't have closure and speculation you knuckleheads. it doesn't make any sense! start making sense! it's been grinding in my brain for 6 months now graahhhh

Maybe we should colour those statements to make their choice easier.

Modifié par Moirai, 03 septembre 2012 - 08:23 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You.  I like you.  I like you a lot.

[CrazyRah]

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You. Are. Awesome.
So many valid points

[Foulpancake]

This was a well thought out post and mirrors my feelings exactly, but i'm afraid it falls of deaf ears. Bioware is the stubborn child who thinks they won an argument by making a point and then covering their ears refusing to hear the response because they know its going to be correct and going "la la la la i can't hear you"

Bioware has never actually listened, they stuck with their artistic BS and then tried to explain it to the unwashed masses, which is like having to explain the joke after you told it...you did it wrong and its not funny...though it could have been. "IT" was there, i saw polls even THEY asked us to take, and the one i remember said around 80% of people responded "IT is good, go with it", but still they chose not to.

I'm done with Bioware, i will probably check back occasionally to see if they fix it, but i don't think they will. For all their lies about caring and listening, they do not or the EC would have been different

[Aulis Vaara]

It seems to me that the fanbase is more intelligent than the writers at Bioware. A shame that intelligence does not bestow an ability to let go and move on.

[Foulpancake]

CrazyRah wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You. Are. Awesome.
So many valid points

Oh and this too...SOOO much this...

[ObserverStatus]

"One Last Plea"? Lol, if only it were so.

[katness]

Zan51, we are very much alike...

I'm a teacher too, and my husband is in the gaming industry. We both are frustrated with ME3 as it insults our intelligence. I'm hoping it gets fixed, but I'm very skeptical at this point and I don't feel for BW anymore. Now its just like watching a train wreck....

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

"I will command an army that none will dare oppose. I will protect, defend. I will destroy all those who oppose the will of the many."

Try that on for size. That's not even the full renegade. That's the renegon.

Has no impact on what I just suggested.

It does because that's what the authors intended it to be. This is not a Shreaper that is going to fly the reapers and the Citadel into the sun. This is a Shreaper that is going to rule with an iron fist to protect the will of the many.

You ignore it because it is not the paragon Shreaper. It is the inconvenient truth. Yours is simply a head canon.

[RenegonSQ]

BIOWARE, WHERE ARE YOU?

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Zan51, its OK, the ending of ME3 was too deep and artistic for most people to grasp with our tiny minds.

[ObserverStatus]

RenegonSQ wrote...
BIOWARE, WHERE ARE YOU?

I think they're in Edmonton.

[RenegonSQ]

katness wrote...

Zan51, we are very much alike...

I'm a teacher too, and my husband is in the gaming industry. We both are frustrated with ME3 as it insults our intelligence. I'm hoping it gets fixed, but I'm very skeptical at this point and I don't feel for BW anymore. Now its just like watching a train wreck....

I asked if the Leviathan DLC insulted our intelligence as players, and I got ate alive by the people on this community. Saying that I couldn't have been very intelligent to begin with if this game can insult my intelligence in the first place.

If you wanna see the thread, i'll link you

[fchopin]

I like ME3 and i am reasonably happy with the destroy ending so i am not really asking for more end choices but would like more info on the Catalyst, reapers and crucible.

I know that many people would like a happier ending and if Bioware did one i would not be opposed to one because of the many number of people asking for one as long as it does not contradict the endings we have.