6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Ok Ill be blunt....want this kind of emotional reunion for Shepard and whomever the LI is for post breath sequence...

You dont even have to have VO work done to make it emotional either...

There was an "ending fix" I saw on youtube (wish I could find it again) where someone added the sound of stuff being shifted around during the final acene on the Citadel, and Liara going "Shepard!" just as the breath took place.  These simple additions do so much to improve the ending.  Taking the scene beyond "implication" and giving the player something to actually hope for.  Imagine what Bioware itself could add, even without changing any of the endings.

Modifié par iakus, 03 septembre 2012 - 06:29 .

[hiraeth]

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

I'd like to remain optimistic that this thread will stay alive long enough for Bioware to acknowledge it seriously (seriously enough to do something). All we really have to do is be loud enough and in great enough numbers.

I agree. I think that bioware might be hoping that all the ending hate will die down with time and that they can release enough decent-quality DLCs like Leviathan to turn people's attention away from the ending fiasco, but if posts like this one continue to surface then our chances of them listening go up. I'm not sure that much more can be said about the ending that hasn't already been said (my take), but for me it has been personally reassuring and validating to hear the same sentiments and complaints coming up over and over again. I'm surprised that we're approaching the 6-months-after-initial-release mark and I (and many others) STILL feel just as betrayed and disappointed over the ending and how profoundly broken it is.

[Zan51]

Just want to add something here. Making a new suit of She's armor could, and likely did cost, tens of thousands of dollars for a game company. 1 suit. It makes me appreciate more what was done for us in the EC ending, which was the only ending I saw.

Dunno aboutBeta tests being done away with, we test in-house a lot and I have played sometimes on a couple of new games we are bringing out, both FPS games, and Free to Paly, That seems to be the way the industry is heading, FTP and micro-transactions, be they Marketplace ones or DLCs. I am not a fan of it, but then I wasn't a fan of monthly fee MMOs either! I liked buying a game and owning it, BUT this way, our games ae now connected to the media and can be influenced by the paying public's opinion of them, and thus tweaked, and altered. So I am now in favor of them, with some reservations that are not moot here.

Modifié par Zan51, 03 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[Dessalines]

I agree with the OP. If the Reapers are ****, the endings come down to replacing Hitler with yourself looking like Hitler, and everyone remembering what Hitler and the ****'s did, and now are supposed to be happy that they are being protected by them. Synthesis is causing ****'s to become a group they hated ,and the groups they hated become Facists. You are then supposed to believe that anyone will get along, Your third choice is you destroy all of the ****, but you lose Italy and Great Britain, and for an added bonus you get to be laying in some rubble somewhere.

[Ozida]

As much as I agree with OP and the rest displeased with the endings, I have a very little hope left for ME3. It's sad, because I consider both ME1 & 2 the best sci-fi RPG games I've ever played, and would love to spend my money on future games, collectible items, DLCs, etc... If only ME3 never happened.
However, I realise that I am in "minority" (according to BioWare's point of view), so I don't expect them to do anything good any time soon. Oh well, just learn my lesson and move on.

[Xellith]

Zan51 wrote...

Just want to add something here. Making a new suit of She's armor could, and likely did cost, tens of thousands of dollars for a game company. 1 suit. It makes me appreciate more what was done for us in the EC ending, which was the only ending I saw.

Dunno aboutBeta tests being done away with, we test in-house a lot and I have played sometimes on a couple of new games we are bringing out, both FPS games, and Free to Paly, That seems to be the way the industry is heading, FTP and micro-transactions, be they Marketplace ones or DLCs. I am not a fan of it, but then I wasn't a fan of monthly fee MMOs either! I liked buying a game and owning it, BUT this way, our games ae now connected to the media and can be influenced by the paying public's opinion of them, and thus tweaked, and altered. So I am now in favor of them, with some reservations that are not moot here.

I never understand why changing armor (especially when its just skins) costs so much.  I have said on other games like Final Fantasy 11 that all they have to do is have the COMMUNITY do the work.  Make the tools avaliable and then use the best sets in games.

There are plenty of people out there who would do this just because they might get it in the game to start with. 

The community is an undervalued and neglected resource when it comes to making games and updates.

[BearlyHere]

Ozida wrote...

As much as I agree with OP and the rest displeased with the endings, I have a very little hope left for ME3. It's sad, because I consider both ME1 & 2 the best sci-fi RPG games I've ever played, and would love to spend my money on future games, collectible items, DLCs, etc... If only ME3 never happened.
However, I realise that I am in "minority" (according to BioWare's point of view), so I don't expect them to do anything good any time soon. Oh well, just learn my lesson and move on.

It's sad when the best hope I can see for getting Bioware to listen is for EA to assume direct control and remind Bioware that they are a VIDEO GAME company. Bioware seems to be getting so wrapped up in books and movies that they've forgotten the players. Exactly who do they think will buy their books and watch their movies?

If they don't want to make games, fine. Sell off that part of the company to someone who wants to make games. If they want to make multiplayer shooters, fine. Just don't advertise them as RPGs where your choices count. I'm sure their overlords at EA are very aware of how many are playing, and how "successful" the game really is after the DLCs. Maybe they'll take Bioware to the woodshed, or maybe, as was said above, it'll be a quick one-way trip out to the back fourty. 

[GreyReaver]

BUMP to the OP and while I think you are unfortunately kicking a dead horse with BW/EA (see the link to my post below) I totally empathise with your emotional plea to them on a logical conclusion based on all of the content and gameplay until the out of left field ME3 ending

http://social.biowar...5459/1#13966311

LadyWench wrote...

Wow. I...I don't usually read entries this long due to tl;dr syndrome (maybe skim it), but your heartfelt plea had me reading until the end. You have encapsulated exactly what is wrong emotionally with the ending, which explains exactly why, no matter how much you dress it up or add new fights or more lore background DLC, it STILL won't feel satisfying and why so many people still can't (not even won't) bring themselves to play it through again.

I still go back and play DA:O, and before that I played the hell outta NWN, for all the reasons you described here. Character and heart ARE what has always set BW games apart from their competitors. Why they are trying to jump in with the status quo to become more like the other games at the cost of what made their own unique story delivery so compelling, unique, and just all-around awesome is sad and confusing, particularly to their loyal fanbase.

I don't know why there is so much hate by the devs for an ending that has the galaxy doing exactly what the game was gearing up to do before we even heard about the plot-convenient Crucible, which was taking a conventional fight (seems to be a dirty word now) to the Reapers. I don't know why dark has to equal deep.

I DO get that war is horrible and that you don't always get the "happy" ending, but you're absoluely right. Who plays these games to have the depressing realities of the world shoved down their throats? Games are an escape from reality and people like for the hero to triumph.

Anyway, I think you've detailed very eloquently the same arguement so many others have tried to make and, I think you're right, no matter how well it is outlined, those who disagree still don't seem to fundamentally understand the arguments of us who were not entirely content with how the series wrapped up. I'm not even expecting an ME4 (they always said ME was to be a trilogy and I would be perfectly happy if they moved into to creater another OS), but if they DO want to further expand the ME universe, I am afraid that it will continue to be, as you said, more CoD like and not what made BW so amazing in the first place. And that is just as depressing as the ME3 endings. :/

Bump; signed and signed again.  BW you gave us hope and the belief that the impossible was possible and then you pulled the rug out from under your fan base and called it art. I call it mean-spirited.  This is a game and games should be fun

Modifié par GreyReaver, 03 septembre 2012 - 08:36 .

[Reptilian Rob]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You.  I like you.  I like you a lot.

Great post, great poster. 

[cuzsal]

as much as i would love for them to do something more with the ending and 4 colors there is no way they will. Bioware as we all knew and loved is long dead and 6 feet under it is just EA using a Bioware tag.

I would love to be proven wrong on this, man would i loved that, but i wont EA does not care about making great and fun games, they just make good ideas but very dumb downed games as fast as they can so they can make as much money as that can. then to top it off they sell you small bits of DLC for lots of money

prove me wrong

please

[AresKeith]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You.  I like you.  I like you a lot.

Great post, great poster. 

I agree

[AngryFrozenWater]

AresKeith wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You.  I like you.  I like you a lot.

Great post, great poster.

I agree

Same here. Agree completely.

[darthoptimus003]

and just think if they just add a refusal victory this would solve alot of problems

[Benchpress610]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

You know what? I have just finished a 9 hour day working at another game company, with  a 1 hour commute either way. I am tired.

I am an intelligent woman, been reading since I was 4 and a half, well educated, a teacher, got an A. Sc. in Forensics, like I said, work for a major gaming company as a GM, studied English Literature, and some French and American, learned about the building blocks of language. I am a published SF writer of 20 years now, I read on average between 5-8 books a week, and I could NOT make sense of what the hell ME3 was doing!

The way all that went before that we were told mattered for ME3 got tossed down the drain, that MP suddenly means so much to the SP game, that godawful last 10 minutes of the ending! I anm not by a long chalk lacking in intelligence, reasoning, vocabulary, or understanding of how to parse classical fiction, non-fiction, and all forms of art to glean every morsel of understanding from them, but ME3 has me beat!

I am honestly coming to the conclusion that maybe, just maybe the reason it makes no sense is because - it makes no sense!  Because the professional discipline of sticking to a theme, a concept, and carrying it through to its natural conclusion was actually missing from some point midway through ME3. 

Instead, somewhere, someone allowed the concept to go haring off willy-nilly in any direction those in charge of it at that time wanted! Instead of being disciplined, they indulged themselves in their dreams and fantasies and put those into the game instead of good old fashioned hard work and sticking to the plot! It isn't artistic, it is self-indulgent and nonsensical.

When you have a good, solid buying fan base, and you try to get what you wrongly see as the rest of the buying public interested in your product at the expense of what you know will sell, you fail to please either lot. The FPS lobby wouldn't have been attracted to ME3 in the numbers they wanted because it was also part of an RPG game, and they don't want that. So we got this hybrid that very few folk were happy with, that really does not make sense because it wasn't designed to make sense, because part way through designing it, they raced off in a different direction!

But, as 3D hand others have proved in their dissertations, it CAN be saved. Will it? I hope so. I really, really hope so, because I loved this game till now.

You.  I like you.  I like you a lot.

Great post, great poster.

I agree

Same here. Agree completely.

Agreed 100%. Zan51, you have summarized I a few paragraphs all that’s wrong with ME3 ending especially the part of “sticking to the theme and carrying through its natural conclusion”. It feels unnatural, forced. Thank you...
 
Holy cow Cheez, I’m glad you are back!  

Modifié par Benchpress610, 03 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Jadebaby]

katness wrote...

Maybe its the teacher in me who doesn't like to see wasted potential. I think that Bioware had so much potential for making a truly epic multi tiered ending. However, what was delivered was a weak ending with plot holes and errors.

As a teacher with any of my students, I respect them and push them to do greater and fulfill their potential. I cannot give up on them, otherwise I am not living up to my potential as a teacher. In this sense, I feel that I am dealing with a highly gifted Bioware child that has chosen to not challenge themselves with their writing. I'm not demanding an add on, more of pointing out errors in the hopes that they can become the best they can be.

I fail to see how this is selfish....

+1

[Jadebaby]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

I agree. I think that bioware might be hoping that all the ending hate will die down with time and that they can release enough decent-quality DLCs like Leviathan to turn people's attention away from the ending fiasco, but if posts like this one continue to surface then our chances of them listening go up. I'm not sure that much more can be said about the ending that hasn't already been said (my take), but for me it has been personally reassuring and validating to hear the same sentiments and complaints coming up over and over again. I'm surprised that we're approaching the 6-months-after-initial-release mark and I (and many others) STILL feel just as betrayed and disappointed over the ending and how profoundly broken it is.

Bioware.

Isn't.

Changing.

The.

Ending.

...

They've.

Said.

This.

Multiple.

Times.

As I said before, to keep pretending they will, they might, is insanity according to Einstein.

BioWare

Also

Said

There

Would

Be

No

New

Endings

In

The Extended Cut

They have also said MANY other things that they have gone back on. So much so that if they say they're not going to do something, chances are they will. Why should this be any different?

[darthoptimus003]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

I agree. I think that bioware might be hoping that all the ending hate will die down with time and that they can release enough decent-quality DLCs like Leviathan to turn people's attention away from the ending fiasco, but if posts like this one continue to surface then our chances of them listening go up. I'm not sure that much more can be said about the ending that hasn't already been said (my take), but for me it has been personally reassuring and validating to hear the same sentiments and complaints coming up over and over again. I'm surprised that we're approaching the 6-months-after-initial-release mark and I (and many others) STILL feel just as betrayed and disappointed over the ending and how profoundly broken it is.

Bioware.

Isn't.

Changing.

The.

Ending.

...

They've.

Said.

This.

Multiple.

Times.

As I said before, to keep pretending they will, they might, is insanity according to Einstein.

just because they said something does mean anything espically when they have said ALOT of things
now if they realize theres a market for a dlc that adds a refuse victory then they just might do it
so whats the problem if they do it only makes since really especially if the only things these dlcs do are add war assets that doesnt do anything

[Pheonix57]

I support this. I tried making a thread like this a while back but it wasn't as popular, and one of the mods said that it wasn't relevant and closed it. I'll do my best to keep yours alive.

[drayfish]

EntropicAngel wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

just because they said something does mean anything espically when they have said ALOT of things
now if they realize theres a market for a dlc that adds a refuse victory then they just might do it
so whats the problem if they do it only makes since really especially if the only things these dlcs do are add war assets that doesnt do anything

They cannot do a refuse victory.

A refuse victory would mean that we win a conventional war.

We were told multiple times throughout the three-game series that we cannot win a conventional war.

Shepard repeatedly, audaciously does what is believed to be conventionally impossible. 

No one can solve the Geth Quarian crisis...

Oh yeah, cause I did.

No one can cure the Genophage.

...Really, cause all my Krogan friends seem pretty sweet now.

No one could come back from a suicide mission and defeat the Collector threat.

Well I did, and I bought you this sweet t-shirt while I was there.

The whole game series has been about defying 'conventional' wisdom, breaking tedious old ways of thought, by staying true to the principles of fellowship, humanity and belief.  Hearing people say 'That's impossible, stop having faith', and then showing those people just how wrong they were to doubt...

Then you get to the end and the Catalyst puts you in a nihilistic headlock and destroys your universe.

i guess you're right.  We never should have believed in the first place.  Thanks for the message Bioware.