6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Thinking back I do not recall them saying would be no ending DLC prior to EC, I remember them saying would wait for feedback, willing to discuss etc but I do not recall anyone specifically saying "No ending DLC". I could be wrong about that but either way put it like this they have said with absolutlely no uncertain terms that will be no more ending specific DLC, if they ditch that now they may as well never bother saying no to anything ever again. I cannot see that happening. They stuck their foot down on this, drawn that line in the sand.

I mentioned earlier pre-EC was grey area which they were willing to entertain such ideas about ending DLC but post-EC their stance has become so firm it would be like hanging Chris out to dry and making his word worthless so no I do not think there will be ending specific DLC and they respect him as a fellow member of their team far too much to have him say no new ending DLC putting his head on the block then force him to go back on his word at this stage.

I can't see it happening. Between the option of completely screwing over one of their own work colleagues with such a dick move to make having him state over and over no new endling DLC so firmly or make some (unknown amount) of fans (maybe) happier. I think they would rather keep their stance on this.

Then there's that line in the sand aspect again, there is a point where (if) most of the people are happy enough or okay with what now have post EC of which Bioware have a better grasp of how many of their fanbase bought Leviathan for example or still play and buy the game. Given their more accurate data, if they say moving on to non ending DLC it is a fair assumption to say the amount of unhappy people is small enough to spend their time and money on other DLC now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 septembre 2012 - 11:16 .

[Jadebaby]

Logan Cloud wrote...

They really only added Refuse so you could challenge their logic, and they could shoot you down. It was kind of a dick move on Bioware's part, I'll admit, but it was a very justifiable reaction considering the attitude you all took towards them.

So no, they didn't really add any new endings. They added a counter-argument to the bullsh*t you guys have been spewing out for months.

wow, way to generalize there buddy...

Also, the only thing refuse shows, is how wrong their original endings are. In that the act of standing up for everyone's rights and freedoms leading to a whole galaxy's loss, still fits on equal footing with control, synthesis and destroy.

[drayfish]

EntropicAngel wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Shepard repeatedly, audaciously does what is believed to be conventionally impossible. 

No one can solve the Geth Quarian crisis...

Oh yeah, cause I did.

No one can cure the Genophage.

...Really, cause all my Krogan friends seem pretty sweet now.

No one could come back from a suicide mission and defeat the Collector threat.

Well I did, and I bought you this sweet t-shirt while I was there.

The whole game series has been about defying 'conventional' wisdom, breaking tedious old ways of thought, by staying true to the principles of fellowship, humanity and belief.  Hearing people say 'That's impossible, stop having faith', and then showing those people just how wrong they were to doubt...

Then you get to the end and the Catalyst puts you in a nihilistic headlock and destroys your universe.

i guess you're right.  We never should have believed in the first place.  Thanks for the message Bioware.

There's a lot I could argue with, but I'll stick with this:

Shepard does. Not the rest of the galaxy. No matter how much of a messiah Shepard is, the rest of the galaxy, the rest of the people piloting cruisers and frigates and fighters and the foot soldiers, are all ordinary people.

This fight isn't about what Shepard can do.

It's about what the standard galaxy can do. And they can't.

What a perfect encapsulation of existantial apathy.  You and I were playing very different games.

And what was the point of the fiction then?  To realise that hope is just a false promise?  An opiate for the blind?

Forgive me for saying that such a reading of this game is immeasurably depressing, and you are welcome to it.

Modifié par drayfish, 03 septembre 2012 - 11:19 .

[darthoptimus003]

Logan Cloud wrote...

That's another good point. Most people are actually somewhat satisfied now. If they didn't change the endings during the sh*t storm, why would they do it now that it's all over?

because they could sell it and they want to make money
ive seen alot of people on here that would buy a dlc that had this option

[Dragoonlordz]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

They really only added Refuse so you could challenge their logic, and they could shoot you down. It was kind of a dick move on Bioware's part, I'll admit, but it was a very justifiable reaction considering the attitude you all took towards them.

So no, they didn't really add any new endings. They added a counter-argument to the bullsh*t you guys have been spewing out for months.

wow, way to generalize there buddy...

Also, the only thing refuse shows, is how wrong their original endings are. In that the act of standing up for everyone's rights and freedoms leading to a whole galaxy's loss, still fits on equal footing with control, synthesis and destroy.

I said this in the control thread but will repeat here regarding the part I underlined in your comment.

Where do you get this strange idea the galaxy has ever lived freely anymore so prior than after control ending? If not the Reapers, then the council, if not the council then your own governments and authorities. Hell even your mother or father if want to go that far. Your always following someones rules or someones laws. There is always someone to keep you inline or out to punish you when break those rules and laws. In my ending I did not 'control' the galaxy anymore than the council always has meaning while I might be a leader of large military force (one that more often than not is used primarily to help rebuild what was destroyed), so is every world government and council itself controls such forces. Just in this case mine is stronger but as said it was only ever used to protect those who could not protect themselves.

Mine never interfered in general galaxy politics he just let them get on with whatever they wanted from the council to the worlds all the way down to the individuals on each planet were all just 'as free' as were before I took control of the Reapers. Everyone goes about their lives as normal as free as ever was only if they try to start a war I stop it and this does not mean wiping out planets or races. It is threat of conflict with my forces used and if does not work I merely take out the leader or go after the individual leaders behind the war. Just like council would do and just like my Shepard would do even if did not have an army to back him up. The only time ever interviene in my ending is when a war is about to break out I put a stop to it even if that just means the threat of conflict with my forces rather than actual resorting to ever firing a single weapon.

In fact with control I am standing up for everyone's right and freedoms much more than you are with Destroy or Refuse. In mine I do not exterminate a race once gained control, I do not condemn the races that currently exist to death. All the races and people in mine are alive and all of them get on with their lives and make their own decisions. In mine I merely act when war is about to break out and put stop to it, not be wiping out races, not by mass murder, but by the threat of retaliation and capturing or just killing the 'individuals' behind the plot to start a war. In mine I am like the UN only with stronger forces. The galaxy governs itself just like did before and I only step in to stop conflicts and protect weaker races. Just like my Shepard would do if never had army to cover his back. He would try to stop the wars too.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 septembre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Jadebaby]

Logan Cloud wrote...

That's another good point. Most people are actually somewhat satisfied now. If they didn't change the endings during the sh*t storm, why would they do it now that it's all over?

If you and entropic mean change by subtract in anyway...

Then I agree with you, that wont happen.

However, it doesn't mean they wont add to them. Why? Because otherwise whats the point in buying their dlc?
What's the point in uniting the Geth and the Quarian? What's the point in spending the whole game talking to EDI and helping her develop as a character? What's the point in playing ME3 if Shepard can never - no matter what you do - survive?

Breathe scene isn't surviving, it's living. Being alive in that particular moment does NOT mean that they survived.

[robertthebard]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Yeah, not giving paying customers what they want is a safe bet, supply and demand can go bite a fat one.

You should run your own company.

Tell that to every author in the world. Or movie maker, I suppose.

ME isn't a book or a movie,it is a completely seperate medium that can be altered on a whim. also plenty of authors and directors have changed movies and books based on customer feedback.

Sherlock.

You really don't know much about crafting a video game, do you?  I've seen some of the fan creation mods over the years that were altered on a whim; I wish I hadn't seen some of them.  You cannot unsee what has been seen.  I'm not trying to be dismissive, or judgemental, or to make too many assumptions here, but DLC costs more to make than some of the people here make a year.  .

Trying to make anyone feel bad because "they don't have enough money" is just silly, and wrong, and on a patch is altering a game, and some devs do it monthly.

I can see that I'm discussing several layers above what you are capable of handling if all you took out of my post about what it takes to make DLC was money.  Most patches aren't close to 2 gigs of information either, however, as I said in the part of my post you bothered to quote to obssess about money comments, you don't know much about crafting video games.  Not much to discuss with you since you want to assume the comment is some kind of personal insult.  Before NWN I didn't know much about crafting video games either, but then I got into building, and saw what it took even in that simplistic tool set, area creation wise, to build something.

[AresKeith]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Or they could stick to their story that they poured their blood, sweat, and tears into making, and keep the vision they wanted. No one likes a sell-out when it comes to artists or musicians. Why should a game developer be any different?

lulzwut? Bioware also works for a business that is EA, and people already stated that they are willing to pay for an add-on to the endings, nobody is telling them change the endings that you all liked and money great for them

[Jadebaby]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I said this in the control thread but will repeat here regarding the part I underlined in your comment.

Where do you get this strange idea the galaxy has ever lived freely anymore so prior than after control ending? If not the Reapers, then the council, if not the council then your own governments and authorities. Hell even your mother or father if want to go that far. Your always following someones rules or someones laws. There is always someone to keep you inline or out to punish you when break those rules and laws. In my ending I did not 'control' the galaxy anymore than the council always has meaning while I might be a leader of large military force (one that more often than not is used primarily to help rebuild what was destroyed), so is every world government and council itself controls such forces. Just in this case mine is stronger but as said it was only ever used to protect those who could not protect themselves.

Mine never interfered in general galaxy politics he just let them get on with whatever they wanted from the council to the worlds all the way down to the individuals on each planet were all just 'as free' as were before I took control of the Reapers. Everyone goes about their lives as normal as free as ever was only if they try to start a war I stop it and this does not mean wiping out planets or races. It is threat of conflict with my forces used and if does not work I merely take out the leader or go after the individual leaders behind the war. Just like council would do and just like my Shepard would do even if did not have an army to back him up. The only time ever interviene in my ending is when a war is about to break out I put a stop to it even if that just means the threat of conflict with my forces rather than actual resorting to ever firing a single weapon.

"You're playing with a power you know nothing about."

If you love the "use evil to do good" trope and use your headcanon to believe control is the best ending and there are no downsides in the long run. then good, I'm happy for you.

But Reapers are very much an abomination to me. And I believe the only right thing to do is mercy kill anything that is reduced to a Reaper form, be it a whole capital ship or just a husk.

Those organic minds are still "alive" in there. They need to be put out of their misery. IMO.

[Jadebaby]

EntropicAngel wrote...

*sigh*

Tell that to EVERY

OTHER

GAME

where DLC did not affect the outcome of the game. And, in fact, DLC for games that ended with the Main Char dead (FF XIII-2, L.A. Noire).

Never played FF so can't comment on that. LA Noire is a standalone game that takes about 20-25 hours to complete.

Mass Effect 3 is the last installment in a trilogy that takes about 100 hours to get to. Also Mass Effect's protagonist is an idol. The piercing light that cut back the black veil the galaxy was covered in.

Cole Phelps was just a cheating detective.

[drayfish]

EntropicAngel wrote...

drayfish wrote...

What a perfect encapsulation of existantial apathy.  You and I were playing very different games.

And what was the point of the fiction then?  To realise that hope is just a false promise?  An opiate for the blind?

Forgive me for saying that such a reading of this game is immeasurably depressing, and you are welcome to it.

So, you have no response to my argument then? About how things were in ME, not some ethereal "theme" of the game?

Are you kidding?  I cited three examples of thwarted expectation that you chose to summarilly ignore.  The central narrative of the game involves finding and building a giant space magic machine.  'Conventional' wisdom and warfare flew out the window the moment Hacket said 'We don't know what it does'.

If you want to embrace a boring defeatest, nihilist attitude that is your right, but that has never been necessary before the last ten minutes of the game.

[Verit]

I'm not going to beg Bioware to add another ending. If this is the way they want to end it, then so be it. All I can say is the franchise was ruined for me. I don't entirely regret playing the games, but the only thing that comes to mind now when I think of "Mass Effect" is those dreadful, nonsensical endings. Those endings where the Shepard I knew disappeared together with everything else that I thought defined "Mass Effect". I'll never understand why Mass Effect ended the way it did, and that's probably the worst thing about it all. If there was meaning to be found, whether it's a happy, bittersweet or tragic ending, I could accept it. But I found no meaning in the ending as it is now. Like I said before, it feels like the ending to a entirely different story with entirely different characters.

[Jadebaby]

Logan Cloud wrote...

How does Bioware working with EA change anything? They had a vision, they created that vision, and they stuck to that vision.

Because if they weren't, Mass Effect 3 might not be out yet, because they'd be putting Omega, Leviathan and EC all in the original game.

BioWare already got a time extention. They probably asked for more time and were denied. Hell, the EC is proof of this.

[Dragoonlordz]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I said this in the control thread but will repeat here regarding the part I underlined in your comment.

Where do you get this strange idea the galaxy has ever lived freely anymore so prior than after control ending? If not the Reapers, then the council, if not the council then your own governments and authorities. Hell even your mother or father if want to go that far. Your always following someones rules or someones laws. There is always someone to keep you inline or out to punish you when break those rules and laws. In my ending I did not 'control' the galaxy anymore than the council always has meaning while I might be a leader of large military force (one that more often than not is used primarily to help rebuild what was destroyed), so is every world government and council itself controls such forces. Just in this case mine is stronger but as said it was only ever used to protect those who could not protect themselves.

Mine never interfered in general galaxy politics he just let them get on with whatever they wanted from the council to the worlds all the way down to the individuals on each planet were all just 'as free' as were before I took control of the Reapers. Everyone goes about their lives as normal as free as ever was only if they try to start a war I stop it and this does not mean wiping out planets or races. It is threat of conflict with my forces used and if does not work I merely take out the leader or go after the individual leaders behind the war. Just like council would do and just like my Shepard would do even if did not have an army to back him up. The only time ever interviene in my ending is when a war is about to break out I put a stop to it even if that just means the threat of conflict with my forces rather than actual resorting to ever firing a single weapon.

In fact with control I am standing up for everyone's right and freedoms much more than you are with Destroy or Refuse. In mine I do not exterminate a race once gained control, I do not condemn the races that currently exist to death. All the races and people in mine are alive and all of them get on with their lives and make their own decisions. In mine I merely act when war is about to break out and put stop to it, not by wiping out races, not by mass murder, but by the threat of retaliation and capturing or just killing the 'individuals' behind the plot to start a war. In mine I am like the UN only with stronger forces. The galaxy governs itself just like did before and I only step in to stop conflicts and protect weaker races. Just like my Shepard would do if never had army to cover his back. He would try to stop the wars too.

"You're playing with a power you know nothing about."

If you love the "use evil to do good" trope and use your headcanon to believe control is the best ending and there are no downsides in the long run. then good, I'm happy for you.

But Reapers are very much an abomination to me. And I believe the only right thing to do is mercy kill anything that is reduced to a Reaper form, be it a whole capital ship or just a husk.

Those organic minds are still "alive" in there. They need to be put out of their misery. IMO.

Where's the proof that those who died when became used for creation of the ships have any self awareness, you do not which is why you limited to (in your opinion) type stance. I do not go around creating more Reapers in my ending, people are not being harvested, the races all survive and everyone is living as free as they were prior to me taking control. The ones that already died in becomming Reapers (were still dead prior to the war) and became reapers at that time they are not self aware anymore. It's funny the double standards a lot of you have saying I am no longer Shepard, condemn my character when became a new form yet now you claim those who became a new form as in Reapers are still themselves when clearly they are not. All the races are alive in my ending, all the races are free in my ending and I protect them all only when their existance is threatened and even then first with threat of conflict with my forces without firing a single shot and if not enough only taking out the leaders behind the war and not the innocent. The only freedom I put an end too is the freedom to wipe out each others races on whims or plot mass murder against another species. Thats one freedom people are better off without.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 03 septembre 2012 - 11:44 .

[darthoptimus003]

EntropicAngel wrote...

darthoptimus003 wrote...

because they could sell it and they want to make money
ive seen alot of people on here that would buy a dlc that had this option

And as I've said before: since they haven't changed it, what does that tell you?

They're worried about more that just money. Like their story, for instance.

But, go ahead, dismiss it under some other pretense.

not dismissing anything just sayin that they are a buisness and if the markets there they would do like any other and sell a dlc that alot of people wouls want and you cant say there isnt
and no company cares for a story more than money but you can go ahead and dimiss that if you want

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Where's the proof that those who died when became used for creation of the ships have any self awareness, you do not which is why you limited to (in your opinion) type stance. I do not go around creating more Reapers in my ending, people are not being harvested, the races all survive and everyone is living as free as they were prior to me taking control the ones that already died (were still dead prior to the war) and became reapers they are not self aware anymore. It's funny the double standards a lot of you have saying I am no longer Shepard, condemn my character when became a new form yet now you claim those who became a new form as in Reapers are still themselves when clearly they are not. All the races are alive in my ending, all the races are free in my ending and I protect them all only when their existance is threatened and even then first with threat of conflict with my forces without firing a single shot and if not enough only taking out the leaders behind the war and not the innocent.

we are not condemning you or your character for choosing Control, we told you that its a Shepard AI thats controlling the Reapers but you automatically choose to ignore it. Even when the Sheplyst says this.

"Through his/her death, I was born"