6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Okay, how did we go from zero Lightning avatars to forty in the span of a few days. Someone explain! Did FF13-3 get announced?

Yeh. Though it's not called FF13-3 anymore. Has new flashy name. Sounds quite interesting as a game too.

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Okay, how did we go from zero Lightning avatars to forty in the span of a few days. Someone explain! Did FF13-3 get announced?

yep, and I don't even know how either

[Iakus]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You: I want this and that, make it happen, I will pay for it and noone else has to download it if doesn't want it.

Bioware: No we are producing different content to that.

You: I want this and that still, make it happen, yadda yadda yadda.

Bioware: We told you no, we are producing different content.

You: I told you to produce this and that now make it happen, others don't need to download it's optional.

Bioware: *sigh* Whats point of talking to you if you refuse to listen to anything we say...

You: I'm still waiting for this and that, where is it, make it already, it's optional for other people, do it.

Bioware: -silence- (for good reason too, if you ignore what they say why say anything).

Yes, yes, we get the picture: "I'm happy so STFU"

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...

They also altered things and they were happy to do so.

I was a part of the Retake movement, but any chance of this being done amiably was out the moment the general feeling on the boards was "Us vs. BioWare." Which is to say, almost immediately. The forums have been combative, occasionally insulting and condescending towards the writers, and in general unwilling to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt on anything. Just look at how Ray's official statement was picked apart, people were claiming the fans had been insulted, or that BioWare was claiming artistic integrity as a means to disregard fan concerns (when in the same breath Ray stressed the need for humility and that they would have something for us in April).

In short, the manner in which the community responded pretty much guaranteed something would be done about the endings. It also sapped most of the goodwill from both sides.

[Ozida]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You: I want this and that, make it happen, I will pay for it and noone else has to download it if doesn't want it.
Bioware: No we are producing different content to that.
You: I want this and that still, make it happen, yadda yadda yadda.
Bioware: We told you no, we are producing different content.
You: I told you to produce this and that now make it happen, others don't need to download it's optional.
Bioware: *sigh* Whats point of talking to you if you refuse to listen to anything we say...
You: I'm still waiting for this and that, where is it, make it already, it's optional for other people, do it.
Bioware: -silence-

You forgot the other lines though.

Bioware: It's going to be great! You going to get an epic, unforgetable endings, all different and unique! All your choices will matter. You will be rewarded with your LI.
We: Ok, let's see. Can't wait for ME3!

-Ending fiasco-
We: Bioware, we want you to produce this, this and this to fix this horrible mess. Honestly, what were you thinking?
BioWare: No, it's great.
We: But we really want it! Please?
BioWare: No way, it's great! Deal with it.
We: Pleeeease?
BioWare: We'll think about it...  -some time after- Ok, we'll do it.
We: You got what we want, right? You said you listned, but we are going to repeat once again: we want this, this and this.
BioWare: You'll get it all!

-EC comes out-
We: This is not what we wanted at all! You barely covered what we have asked for.
BioWare: Don't care. We listened. Like it.

And then the other dialogue takes place. So it's a longer story than it seems.

Modifié par Ozida, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:27 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Look, page 85. Let's go for 100.

All of the endings suck. All of them suck. Each ending has you do something horrible. I'm not asking for degrees of horribleness. I'm just stating that each ending has you do something horrible. Can we agree on that? Yes? Good.

Refuse at least you get to hear a good speech. Yes? Then it sucks really bad. Agreed? Yes? Good.

This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

It will not ruin the artistic vision of the game. Trust me on this.

If you don't want it, you don't have to buy it. No one is forcing it on you. Just like no one forced you to buy "The Darkspawn Chronicles" where you could lead the Darkspawn to victory in Dragon Age Origins. Or like "Pinnacle Station". You didn't need to have that to play ME1 either. Or "Firewalker" for ME2. See?

[Dragoonlordz]

iakus wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You: I want this and that, make it happen, I will pay for it and noone else has to download it if doesn't want it.

Bioware: No we are producing different content to that.

You: I want this and that still, make it happen, yadda yadda yadda.

Bioware: We told you no, we are producing different content.

You: I told you to produce this and that now make it happen, others don't need to download it's optional.

Bioware: *sigh* Whats point of talking to you if you refuse to listen to anything we say...

You: I'm still waiting for this and that, where is it, make it already, it's optional for other people, do it.

Bioware: -silence- (for good reason too, if you ignore what they say why say anything).

Yes, yes, we get the picture: "I'm happy so STFU"

If you do not see the logic or actual reason for that example I just gave thats not my fault.

The reason however was not STFU as you put it. It's about realising the effect and consequence of what your doing. That there is a limit to how much ignoring of the things they say before it just becomes the wrong thing to do.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:47 .

[AresKeith]

Ozida wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You: I want this and that, make it happen, I will pay for it and noone else has to download it if doesn't want it.
Bioware: No we are producing different content to that.
You: I want this and that still, make it happen, yadda yadda yadda.
Bioware: We told you no, we are producing different content.
You: I told you to produce this and that now make it happen, others don't need to download it's optional.
Bioware: *sigh* Whats point of talking to you if you refuse to listen to anything we say...
You: I'm still waiting for this and that, where is it, make it already, it's optional for other people, do it.
Bioware: -silence-

You forgot the other lines though.

Bioware: It's going to be great! You going to get an epic, unforgetable endings, all different and unique! All your choices will matter. You will be rewarded with your LI.
We: Ok, let's see. Can't wait for ME3!

-Ending fiasco-
We: Bioware, we want you to produce this, this and this to fix this horrible mess. Honestly, what were you thinking?
BioWare: No, it's great.
We: But we really want it! Please?
BioWare: No way, it's great! Deal with it.
We: Pleeeease?
BioWare: We'll think about it...  -some time after- Ok, we'll do it.
We: You got what we want, right? You said you listned, but we are going to repeat once again: we want this, this and this.
BioWare: You'll get it all!

-EC comes out-
We: This is not what we wanted at all! You barely covered what we have asked for.
BioWare: Don't care. We listened. Like it.

And then the other dialogue takes place. So it's a longer story than it seems.

Gavorn's tricks

[3DandBeyond]

Mystiq6 wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...
It feels like they didn't try very hard. The only thing headscratching to me is why they tried to make the game for as wide of an audience as possible and then gave it an "artistic" interperative ending most people wouldn't understand. For the audience they aimed for (Which I do not agree with making the target audience wider) they should have gone for the simplistic "everyone dies" or "happy " ending. doing what they did makes no sense.

Now, I must admit I'm no professional writer. I'm completely self-taught. I have problems with characterization, plotting, pacing and just about everything. I can recognize a well-written story but it's a lot harder to write one.

BioWare ended up with the same problem that I'm learning about and running into with the main antagonist of the main plot from my story. The main villian is powerful enough to the point of being unbeatable. Nearly every antagonist has a weakness, as does the protagonist. Shepard has a weakness: he's just a human and he can easily be killed. The reapers are billions of years old and, as told to us by Sovereign, are nigh omnipotent and have no weaknesses. As is drilled into our heads throughout the games, they present such a strong threat that you have no idea how to beat them up until the last 5 minutes of the last game.

This is where I think the crux of the problem with Mass Effect comes from. Someone, anyone, stop me if you think I'm wrong.
snipped--I will read the rest, but wanted to address this. 

Reapers have vulnerabilities-there's a codex specifically for it.  As well there were many groups attempting to find unique tools to defeat them-all of that was abandoned and ignored.  If they were invincible then you don't show tidbits that indicate they can be defeated.  Arm everyone with Cains planetside to defeat reapers there-reapers lower their mass on planets which weaken their kinetic barriers.  Kinetic barriers are also not capable of blocking toxins, temperature, or radiation.  Javelin missiles can alter their mass effect fields (dark energy) to also lower their mass and weaken their kinetic barriers.

Send the geth in to some internally--through space, to see if they can be hacked.  Legion was working on something similar at the core of the derelict reaper.  Or just have them try to destroy the cores-with Cains or whatever.  Attempt to alter their Indoctrination signals, which are a form of QEC-EDI might be able to help. 

I'm not saying this would all work, but imagination can take you far, especially if you use what has already been written.  The crucible originally or always was intended as some sort of dark energy device-it could be used in concert with the Mass Relays to again manipulate the reapers (using their IFF signatures) mass effect fields to weaken their kinetic barriers so they are very vulnerable.

The problem is not only that they say constantly we can't beat the reapers, but they don't really back that up with the feeling that it's so.  We hear that Thessia fell and Liara cries for 2 minutes and then, it's ok, forget about it.  Everything is trivialized so as to be meaningless.  And at the end where the conflict should be the greatest, the fear palpable, and life hangs in the balance, we get dreamy slow walking and conversation that is more like an epilog than war.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:31 .

[Jadebaby]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Look, page 85. Let's go for 100.

All of the endings suck. All of them suck. Each ending has you do something horrible. I'm not asking for degrees of horribleness. I'm just stating that each ending has you do something horrible. Can we agree on that? Yes? Good.

Refuse at least you get to hear a good speech. Yes? Then it sucks really bad. Agreed? Yes? Good.

This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

It will not ruin the artistic vision of the game. Trust me on this.

If you don't want it, you don't have to buy it. No one is forcing it on you. Just like no one forced you to buy "The Darkspawn Chronicles" where you could lead the Darkspawn to victory in Dragon Age Origins. Or like "Pinnacle Station". You didn't need to have that to play ME1 either. Or "Firewalker" for ME2. See?

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

If this were to happen, I predict half the complaints on BSN wiould go away.  

[Jadebaby]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Okay, how did we go from zero Lightning avatars to forty in the span of a few days. Someone explain! Did FF13-3 get announced?

[CronoDragoon]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Okay, how did we go from zero Lightning avatars to forty in the span of a few days. Someone explain! Did FF13-3 get announced?

Yeh. Though it's not called FF13-3 anymore. Has new flashy name. Sounds quite interesting as a game too.

Well hell, after reading a preview for it I might change my avatar, too. But back on topic!

[Dragoonlordz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

Not true, it is not 86 pages of people asking for it.

It is the same few dozen people talking to each other for 86 pages about the topic and not in agreement either.

Personally I do not care about reunion at all either way much to be honest.

These following two things should not happen for reasons I stated (imho) many , many pages ago.

Refuse = win however I have very strong opinions against.

Throwing away the catalyst or changing it's purpose I also feel strongly against.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:42 .

[AresKeith]

iakus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

If this were to happen, I predict half the complaints on BSN wiould go away.  

well the complaints towards the endings anyway, but most of us would be happy or atleast content after that

[Jadebaby]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You: *snipped*

What's the point in talking to you when you constantly keep telling us we're making demands when we're not? These forums are for discussion and feedback. This thread falls under both. End of line.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:35 .

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

If this were to happen, I predict half the complaints on BSN wiould go away.  

I wouldn't be against this optional DLC but we gotta think logically for a second. Not many will buy something so lacking in content.

They could probably get away with adding it onto their next planned DLC, but I heard that DLC that modifies other DLC is against Microsoft policy.

[CronoDragoon]

I don't buy the whole development cycle problem, by the way. ME3 had a similar timeframe to ME2, and I didn't find anything rushed about ME2. It seems to me then that you are blaming BioWare for mismanagement of resources, or that ME3 was noticeably harder to develop than ME2. Which is possible, but hardly EA's fault.

[AresKeith]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


This entire thread, all 85 and now possibly 86 pages has been about asking Bioware to write an optional, NOT FREE, DLC that allows those of us who picked Destroy with high EMS and got the 1/4 second gasp of air in a pile of garbage, where we've been told that Shepard survived, but then in the next breath have been told "it could have been Shepard's last breath", to be rescued and to have a reunion scene. Note the key words: NOT FREE. We'll pay for it.

If this were to happen, I predict half the complaints on BSN wiould go away.  

I wouldn't be against this optional DLC but we gotta think logically for a second. Not many will buy something so lacking in content.

They could probably get away with adding it onto their next planned DLC, but I heard that DLC that modifies other DLC is against Microsoft policy.

that was one of my suggestions for it, have us require a large EMS or a certain War Asset to get the said ending

[Iakus]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

If you do not see the logic or actual reason for that example I just gave thats not my fault.

The reason however was not STFU as you put it. It's about realising the effect and conseuqnece of what your doing. That there is a limit to how much ignoring of the things they say before it just becomes the wrong thing to do.

If this wasn't important to us, this thread would not be 85 pages long.

We would like them to reconsider, and tweak at least one of the endings to be something that feels like a victory to us.  We aren't asking for new endings for all.  We arent' even asking for free DLC.  We're asking for a reason to replay the frakking game.

You're happy with the endings.  You're happy with EC.  You're one of the lucky ones. 

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...


I wouldn't be against this optional DLC but we gotta think logically for a second. Not many will buy something so lacking in content.

Don't be too certain of that.  I bought AAP 2 for ME2 specifically so Miranda wouldn't go around looking so much like a hooker 

They could probably get away with adding it onto their next planned DLC, but I heard that DLC that modifies other DLC is against Microsoft policy.

Whatever works.  However it's done.  I would buy it, if it added five seconds or five hours of content.

[CronoDragoon]

MegaSovereign wrote...

They could probably get away with adding it onto their next planned DLC, but I heard that DLC that modifies other DLC is against Microsoft policy.

Technically, Leviathan did exactly this. But I think that rule is in place to keep publishers from taking advantage of consumers, so I think the spirit of the rule would make it okay.