6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystiq6]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

Epique Phael767 wrote...
It feels like they didn't try very hard. The only thing headscratching to me is why they tried to make the game for as wide of an audience as possible and then gave it an "artistic" interperative ending most people wouldn't understand. For the audience they aimed for (Which I do not agree with making the target audience wider) they should have gone for the simplistic "everyone dies" or "happy " ending. doing what they did makes no sense.

Now, I must admit I'm no professional writer. I'm completely self-taught. I have problems with characterization, plotting, pacing and just about everything. I can recognize a well-written story but it's a lot harder to write one.

BioWare ended up with the same problem that I'm learning about and running into with the main antagonist of the main plot from my story. The main villian is powerful enough to the point of being unbeatable. Nearly every antagonist has a weakness, as does the protagonist. Shepard has a weakness: he's just a human and he can easily be killed. The reapers are billions of years old and, as told to us by Sovereign, are nigh omnipotent and have no weaknesses. As is drilled into our heads throughout the games, they present such a strong threat that you have no idea how to beat them up until the last 5 minutes of the last game.

This is where I think the crux of the problem with Mass Effect comes from. Someone, anyone, stop me if you think I'm wrong.
snipped--I will read the rest, but wanted to address this. 

Reapers have vulnerabilities-there's a codex specifically for it.  As well there were many groups attempting to find unique tools to defeat them-all of that was abandoned and ignored.  If they were invincible then you don't show tidbits that indicate they can be defeated.  Arm everyone with Cains planetside to defeat reapers there-reapers lower their mass on planets which weaken their kinetic barriers.  Kinetic barriers are also not capable of blocking toxins, temperature, or radiation.  Javelin missiles can alter their mass effect fields (dark energy) to also lower their mass and weaken their kinetic barriers.

Send the geth in to some internally--through space, to see if they can be hacked.  Legion was working on something similar at the core of the derelict reaper.  Or just have them try to destroy the cores-with Cains or whatever.  Attempt to alter their Indoctrination signals, which are a form of QEC-EDI might be able to help. 

I'm not saying this would all work, but imagination can take you far, especially if you use what has already been written.  The crucible originally or always was intended as some sort of dark energy device-it could be used in concert with the Mass Relays to again manipulate the reapers (using their IFF signatures) mass effect fields to weaken their kinetic barriers so they are very vulnerable.

The problem is not only that they say constantly we can't beat the reapers, but they don't really back that up with the feeling that it's so.  We hear that Thessia fell and Liara cries for 2 minutes and then, it's ok, forget about it.  Everything is trivialized so as to be meaningless.  And at the end where the conflict should be the greatest, the fear palpable, and life hangs in the balance, we get dreamy slow walking and conversation that is more like an epilog than war.

I did say that rather than try to come up with meaty answers, the game prefers to present us with something very literal. It's also notorious for throwing out contrivances just to set conditions up for things later on or to shrink the time needed to resolve something. "Leviathans can't help too much because they are fighting for survival" is one. I'm sure if the writers really wanted the Leviathans to take a bigger part, such as if they were introduced in Mass Effect 2, they could have found a reason around that. There are many others but I can't think of them right now.

I also did say (in another post) that it's clear this was written by many people. You've given a few of the reasons. The reapers have certain combat weaknesses but it's obviously not enough to work en masse.

When I refer to a weakness, I mean a character weakness. A combat weakness is one thing. In Harry Potter, Lord Voldemort was a mere mortal when finally killed. That was his combat weakness. His character weakness is that he doesn't know or understand what love is. This was ultimately his downfall because he didn't believe he needed anyone to survive and fails to realize that Harry has people who care about him and was too dumb to see that he created the conditions that allowed Harry to live through the Killing Curse a second time, let alone the first.

The reapers have no such character weakness. This is stated by Sovereign. Their only weakness is a contrivance: arrogance. Arrogance has been a character weakness in several stories but with an enemy of this caiiber, I feel safe saying its a contrivance. EDI's line, "They have the upper hand, why don't they just kill us" shows BioWare knew what was going on, even pointed it out, but chose to ignore it.

Modifié par Mystiq6, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:48 .

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

I don't buy the whole development cycle problem, by the way. ME3 had a similar timeframe to ME2, and I didn't find anything rushed about ME2. It seems to me then that you are blaming BioWare for mismanagement of resources, or that ME3 was noticeably harder to develop than ME2. Which is possible, but hardly EA's fault.

We're saying that ME2 and ME3 did not live up to the potential of true choice & consequence as a result of lacking developmental time and limited resrouces. He's claiming that EA is the cause of this. I'm saying that because Bioware has pretty much never gone above two years, they simply couldn't have done it justice, even if they were independent.

I not saying EA is the cause, but they are part of it

[CronoDragoon]

EntropicAngel wrote...

We're saying that ME2 and ME3 did not live up to the potential of true choice & consequence as a result of lacking developmental time and limited resrouces. He's claiming that EA is the cause of this. I'm saying that because Bioware has pretty much never gone above two years, they simply couldn't have done it justice, even if they were independent.

Well, I don't agree that it didn't live up to its potential. That's probably because I avoided all marketing for ME2 and ME3 and went in with a clean slate, so I didn't have unrealistic expectations bolstered by hyperbolic marketing claims. I have gripes with the ending and Earth in general, but the rest of ME3 I felt my choices did matter.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:45 .

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


because Baldur's Gate wasn't Published by Bioware, and it basically takes longer to make games now than it did in the 90's because of new graphics and etc. The real problem is that Publishers like EA and Activi$ion always tries to beat there competition by trying to get their games out as quick as possible

I thought everyone did it this way, with the exception of Bethesda with the TES games. Do you have a source somewhere that shows the long dev cycle of other games in this day and age?

you mean RPG type games, or any game period?

[3DandBeyond]

CronoDragoon wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

They also altered things and they were happy to do so.

I was a part of the Retake movement, but any chance of this being done amiably was out the moment the general feeling on the boards was "Us vs. BioWare." Which is to say, almost immediately. The forums have been combative, occasionally insulting and condescending towards the writers, and in general unwilling to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt on anything. Just look at how Ray's official statement was picked apart, people were claiming the fans had been insulted, or that BioWare was claiming artistic integrity as a means to disregard fan concerns (when in the same breath Ray stressed the need for humility and that they would have something for us in April).

In short, the manner in which the community responded pretty much guaranteed something would be done about the endings. It also sapped most of the goodwill from both sides.

I've indicated problems existed coming from all sides and I've also stated I wish to extend a hand in friendship.  The problem is there were others that got involved in order to incite things.  They started the name calling and BW should have nipped all of it in the bud. 

Surrogates turned it into an Us vs. Us.  And really, you can never start over if you don't ever try.  Even the EC announcement did contain a slap at fans-the idea that they never intended for the galaxy to be destroyed and didn't understand why people thought that.  They thought that because that's what their games said and that's even what their writers said would happen-the galaxy would be a wasteland (Feb. Mac Walters), galactic dark ages (final hours app), Desperate Measures codex, the Arrival (written by Mac Walters).  Why say that in the EC announcement?

The thing is I have never harbored hatred for them-yes, I've been critical.  I can't help that.  They gave me 2 games that were great and featured uplifting endings and then topped it off with dark, grim, and immoral with bunnies.  I feel that if I just came and said "I hate it" that is destructive, but I have taken great pains to say why-they want to know why.  Even recently Jessica Merizan said just that on a panel.  Yet, whenever I say what I feel and think it gets taken out of context, misrepresented, and warped out of shape.  With a great many people here you have to be extremely specific to define exactly what you mean or you've committed some great sin.  And this from people that have told me to use my imagination-more often telling me I must be an idiot for not being able to use it, or I've been criticized for not understanding what suicide means (my sister killed herself), or I've been told to just admit all I want is sunshine and bunnies and unicorns or whatever.  Frustration is the outcome and it can come out like anger.  Some people act like if you get one minor thing that would make this better it would be like personally flaying the skin from their backs and feeding it to their children.  Why?

I've gotten called a hater, whiner, complainer, entitled.  I've been told I don't understand you can't always get what you want-well, I want my sister, my mother, and father back alive.  I want to remove the pain of a close family member.  I want a lot of bad things that happened to never have happened-don't tell me what I clearly already know.  One thing I do know is you get nothing if you don't ask for it.  Have I complained?  Hell yes.  It's my money and I don't throw it away.  If a company takes that money for granted then I want to know why and they should want to talk about it if they want to keep getting more money.  I assume as a member of the retake movement (I belonged to no such movement-I am acting as a consumer), you got called names too.  Funny thing is there are a lot of people who belonged to such movements who also got called names and didn't like it, and after the EC they piled the namecalling on people that didn't like the EC-some admitted it and had the banners and all and were truly insulting to people.  Real nice.  So, you have what you want now and everyone else should just go away, is that it?

I am saying here in this thread, I want to work with Bioware and ask them to help me and others have appreciation for this game again.  We'd pay for it.  I am offering a hand in friendship.

[xGamerx599]

nice to see so many people talking. i have personally lost all sleep since the ec came out, and seeing so many people still fighting is great. this is all i would want. to be rewarded for all my multiplayer time, decisions, and everything else with the ending to just get an ending where things are better. well, maybe not really that, but that i could have shepard alive, have a reunion, and see what happens to my friends, LI, and shep. next up would be fixing priority earth to actually use my assets, sort of like DA: Origins final battle. with these 2 fixes, i could actually play again!

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I am saying here in this thread, I want to work with Bioware and ask them to help me and others have appreciation for this game again.  We'd pay for it.  I am offering a hand in friendship.

And that is admirable, and I hope the sentiment catches on. But for every one of you and me, there are 3 people saying, "BioWare has lost all my business forever," which is essentially the fan version of "artistic integrity" since it severs any possibility of discussion.

[AresKeith]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

you mean RPG type games, or any game period?

Well RPG games would probably be a better example, since I can't imagine a non-RPG taking that long.

Dragon's Dogma had three years of Development, and Kingdom's of Amalur also had three years

[Warrior Craess]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Stopped reading here, not getting into debates about which endings are better as I feel they are all equally bad.

However;

Sovereign "we are each a nation, free of weakness"
Catalyst: "We don't kill them, we help to preserve them by ascending them to Reaper form."

The Human Reaper became alive at the end of ME2 despite not being completely built because why? Because most of the minds had already been 'uploaded' to it.

I know for a fact that their minds live on in Reaper form, it doesn't matter in what way or manner, they are there. Period.

Lastly, I saw you type "double-standards" and I know what you're going to say about how people can't say Shepard isn't alive in control and then turn around and say these peoples mind live on. They are totally different things. The catalyst already existed before Shepard uploaded their consciousness to it.

Whereas a Reaper's existence requires organics minds to fuel it from the get go.

Bolded part, yes it does matter. You missed my entire point if did not pick up on that. You wish to butcher and mass murder them even in your idea. My Reapers protect people, save lives, prevent war and never start one anymore. They do not cull races, do not mass murder, they protect every race from such atrocities ever happening again. The galaxy runs itself the people alive are free and nothing about that has changed. The only freedom I took away was the freedom to mass murder or wipe out another species.

In your happy ever after your races war with each other, your races mass murder each other just like always have done. You only have to look at human history to know this, let alone millions of years in ME universe. People come together to fight a common foe but when that foe is no longer they fight amongst themselves over resources, beliefs or strong pick on the weak because they can plus more. Mine protects them all does not harvest or wipe out races in order to do so anymore once I took control (whatever I may be).

Now seems to me out of your happy ever after and my ending more people live, more races are protected from harm in mine than yours. In fact you want to mass murder these people who became Reapers long ago without any idea of whether they wish to be culled by you or whether they even are self aware or have any individuality anymore, to you in your own words it doesn't matter you would kill aka butcher them all anyways.

I'll take a stab at this one. 

Lets take a similiar villian and compare them. The N.a.z.i.'s (grrrr hate that world is filtered) committed many of the same crimes. They destroyed whole people. The threated all civiliations as we knew them. Now What if Audie Murphy took Hitlers place, and suddenly the N.a.z.i.'s became the policemen of the world? How would people feel about the war crimes that they had committed? How would anyone be able to trust them? 

The fact is the reapers are much worse the WW2 Germany, Each one is physical representation of genocide. They can not exist with out an entire advanced species being brutally murdered and broken down into goo, and used to create a single reaper. How could the rest of the galaxy ever look at that with out trepidation? How could you be comfortable knowing that the person providing your protection was the worse mass murdered in the hitory of the universe? 

It doesn't matter that shepard is in charge of the reapers. No one will ever be able to trust them, or to feel comfortable around them. governments will build weapons specifically to counter the reaper threat (which they will believe in). War is an inevitable conclusion of the control ending. 

Trust however is not required. Trust can be built upon over centuries, millenia or however long around for. Once helped rebuild they will not be hanging around street corners chatting with people, they will only come out to prevent wars and mass murder as a last resort. First like said by way of threat of conflict with them if do not stop in attempting to commit genocide on another species or groups trying to start wars. Out of sight out of mind when not doing such. Their only purpose once I became the whatever wish to call me is to protect species, prevent war and prevent genocide. Self preservation of all races and all species includes protection of themselves.

Not by means of mass harvesting or butchering species. It goes for all races and governments, if war is their intention it is no different to a terrorist group. No war will be allowed, not governments and not Reapers. The ones behind the plot will be stopped but only the ones behind it. Just like if they tried to create weapons to attack another race the ones behind that as individuals would be stopped by minimum force possible. The Reapers are a race now in my ending no different to Geth or Humans. All are protected including the Reapers from war. No government leaders or scientists will be allowed to create weapons for the sole purpose of killing another species including the Reapers.

Credit where it's due however that was a good argument you put forth.

trust is required, or that inevitable war will happen much sooner. TheReaper are best suited to waging war, not to clandestine investigations about what governments are doing. The various races aren't going to wait centuries to build trust. They are going to thank their lucky stars that the reapers stopped attacking. They will be hell bent to find a weapon to use against them. And whgen they do find one... If shepard is truly isolated form them.. it'll be war, wether shepard wants it or not.

[darknessmyown]

And here I thought I was done with the forums.... you got me back in, OP.

I agree with a great deal of what you have to say, and I will admit that I am guilty of some of the things that have been wrong here in the forums since we all began discovering what was going to be called the end of the story for Shepard. In the beginning it was difficult to put into words what I was feeling, but as I saw more people were feeling it with me, I started to understand it better.

I am not sure what I am hoping for at this point, or even what I am expecting. Maybe I am not trying to do either so I am not disappointed again or that I can enjoy it all that much more if Bioware does listen to the many, many of us asking/begging for what we had been hoping for since the ending of ME 1. But thank you for the post, OP. It made me remember what some of this all was for in the beginning.

[3DandBeyond]

@Mystiq6,

I see what you are saying-what I think could well have happened is rather than the ending being a moral (immoral) choice, contrived out of nothing prefaced in the game before, there could have even rather been some attempt to dissuade Shepard from a course of action.  A challenge of wills that could involve philosophies.  I won't go into the other perceived meaning of what the reapers were doing that came up before ME3, other than to say they were being fairly animalistic (hibernating, awakening, feeding, and reproducing-they seeded tech to fatten up the intelligence of advanced races). 

The ending very likely could have been involving the reaper collective or representative challenging Shepard regarding activating the crucible.  If it needed to be an AI overseer, fine, but not in this way.  If say Harbinger-he could try to plant the idea that indeed the reapers are a part of some cosmic plan that is beyond Shepard's comprehension and even say that the relationship is symbiotic, in that reapers advance people and let them live until the time comes for the price to be paid.  Never should it feel right to agree with the enemy, but keeping it enigmatic is not a bad thing.  Things that go bump in the night.  I don't think "why" always needs to be told, but if it does it must seem relevant to solving the conflict.  The disagreement could have led to real conflict with Harbinger or with reapers converging on the crucible, knowing they could die.  And setting off the crucible never had to mean it was some amazing destructo beam. 

The thing could well have been great if it was more a real conflict and a battle of wills.  I'm not saying this is THE way to end it, but just some ideas of things that might have been worked into it.

[Tamayah]

What I don't get is, why keep buying DLC's for ME3 if its not gonna have an big impact on the ending or give you some type of insight into the future of WTH really happened?

From what I heard the Leviathan DLC took place before Shepard's final charge down the hill. I don't get why keep buying, supporting and playing DLC's before the final stand against the reapers if its not really adding anything but a few new added dialog convo's and war assets.

Maybe eventually they will add an DLC to tide what happened in the future, but just dragging out it a bit. Instead of squashing the beef with the community, customers, fanbase they just release DLC's bit by bit.

[Dragoonlordz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

They also altered things and they were happy to do so.

I was a part of the Retake movement, but any chance of this being done amiably was out the moment the general feeling on the boards was "Us vs. BioWare." Which is to say, almost immediately. The forums have been combative, occasionally insulting and condescending towards the writers, and in general unwilling to give BioWare the benefit of the doubt on anything. Just look at how Ray's official statement was picked apart, people were claiming the fans had been insulted, or that BioWare was claiming artistic integrity as a means to disregard fan concerns (when in the same breath Ray stressed the need for humility and that they would have something for us in April).

In short, the manner in which the community responded pretty much guaranteed something would be done about the endings. It also sapped most of the goodwill from both sides.

snip-

I am saying here in this thread, I want to work with Bioware and ask them to help me and others have appreciation for this game again.  We'd pay for it.  I am offering a hand in friendship.

The thing is what you want is not one thing, it is many things. First one you get will lead to second one you want and won't let go (which you clearly have shown in here and said so in your own words you won't stop asking and this in reality is not "one final plea" of which you named the thread) until you get it like now your doing. At some point when do they stop making DLC for you and things you want or what person x wants and start to make content they want and what person y+z want.

Now maybe you did not get what you want, maybe you as an individual 'feel' your specific things were never granted but the time and money they spend is limited; the amount of peope who want different things is vast.

The more time and money spent on content you want is time and money taken away from what someone else wants. So far only few dozen people in this thread have said they wanted some of the things you do for example some want happy reunion still others want to invalidate the work that went into their catalyst  by means of bypassing it or rewriting it's purpose.

Some people want different ways to 'change or alter' the catalyst and a lot of them cannot even begin to realise that they are asking for different methods from IT theory, changing catalyst into a shield disruptor or no catalyst at all and just conventional victory. The fact is in all these things even the people who claim to want them in principle cannot agree on what method to get what they want. This applies to everything from how long the content is to how the content plays out and more. You are in no position to work with Bioware in this element, because you only know what you want and even if some agree and want the same thing others do not. It is not your place to speak for those people.

Catering to you and what you want does not cater to everyone who in general wants something changed, the way you want it changed none of you agree on and it WILL annoy someone else because the change you want will stop them getting the change they want. Say you get a DLC which changes the catalyst do you think they have the time and money to produce variations of how to match all the different theories, methods and such of all those who want it changed? The answer is no and at the same time all the money and resources plus time developing that is time taken away from what someone else wants.

Why do you think retake was always doomed to fail? For the same reason as why your idea, your request is not as simple as you even realise. Hate for the catalyst for example between all fans produces dozens of methods they each want to change this. The reason why retake and the problem with your idea is the same, it's what you want and maybe few others but not what many others who also hate the part of the game you do, the method used.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 septembre 2012 - 03:32 .

[Warrior Craess]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

I did address Leviathan though.  Based one what is revealed by the leviathan DLC. The endings should be effected. The presence or leviathans as active members of the war, changes the war. Even if we still can't go toe to toe, ship to ship in open conflict, the war is effected.  Can we win it with levianthans on our side (at least temporarily?) well, thats definately something that should have been addressed. 

Too bad that all the possiblities of Leviathan were ignored.

We're getting way off of what I and the other guy were discussing. I was arguing that changes in the ending are not expected for story DLC.

That premiss depends entirely on what the story DLC contains.  Again lets use leviathan as an example. It is story DL that could (probably should) have made an impact on the endings becuase of what it reveals. The is no arguing that active partiipation by Leviathans changes the dynamics of the war. To reduce that potential to some useless war assets is, well incredibly frustrating, and very poor story telling. 

Now if there is a Palaven DLC, I wouldn't expect that to alter the endings in the least bit. Nor would I expect any DLC showing what the ME2 squadmates did in London, to effet the ending either. 

[AresKeith]

Warrior Craess wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

I did address Leviathan though.  Based one what is revealed by the leviathan DLC. The endings should be effected. The presence or leviathans as active members of the war, changes the war. Even if we still can't go toe to toe, ship to ship in open conflict, the war is effected.  Can we win it with levianthans on our side (at least temporarily?) well, thats definately something that should have been addressed. 

Too bad that all the possiblities of Leviathan were ignored.

We're getting way off of what I and the other guy were discussing. I was arguing that changes in the ending are not expected for story DLC.

That premiss depends entirely on what the story DLC contains.  Again lets use leviathan as an example. It is story DL that could (probably should) have made an impact on the endings becuase of what it reveals. The is no arguing that active partiipation by Leviathans changes the dynamics of the war. To reduce that potential to some useless war assets is, well incredibly frustrating, and very poor story telling. 

Now if there is a Palaven DLC, I wouldn't expect that to alter the endings in the least bit. Nor would I expect any DLC showing what the ME2 squadmates did in London, to effet the ending either. 

why you gotta bring my DLC idea in this lol

[3DandBeyond]

EntropicAngel wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Surrogates turned it into an Us vs. Us.

Patently false. It was the originals that turned it into that. It wasn't just people pretending. It was people genuinely outraged, people genuinely demanding things.

Nope not false.  No matter how bad or bold the rhetoric, it was up to BW to stop it when it got out of hand.  It was not up to anyone else to open their mouths and act as mods or to foment things.  IGN and other paid reviewers got involved in a way that I've never seen happen before and they should not have.  They never wrote one authentic piece about the issue to even try to understand what was going on.  And they lied about things even fairly recently.

I have modded on game devs' forums and other game forums before.  If someone gets out of hand, the mod handles it, not other users.  If the other user does, then they can both be banned.  It's up to the owner of the forum to handle the crowd.  I'm not saying people didn't get out of hand at all-I'm saying it doesn't help anyone to start labeling others no matter what. 

How does it help anything to start getting involved and create more of a mess?  All that did was make it much harder for moderators to do their jobs.  It's still here to this day.  I'm asking Bioware for something, not demanding, asking and I've been called all kinds of names for doing so-and I've been told I have no right and that some people even know what Bioware is thinking.  Why the need to get involved if you think BW won't do this (you win a cookie) or if you think BW shouldn't (that's their decision and not yours).

All that keeps happening here is someone says, "I like blue".  And someone else says, "you're an idiot. Yellow is better.  Why do you hate yellow so much?"  You can't argue opinions in this way.  I don't even really care to argue this stuff any more.  No one is going to change my opinion and I am not changing theirs either.  I don't want to, I don't care.

I am wanting to make peace with the company that gave me games I love and I want to ask them to see if they might think about adding content that I'd pay for to make this game work for me the way it works for others.  I don't want to hurt anyone else, don't want to ruin their day, pee in their lemonade, eat their sandwich.  I would really like to find a way forward for my Shepard-I'd like this hero picked up out of the rubble and brought home so I can say goodbye.

[CronoDragoon]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why do you think retake was always doomed to fail? For the same reason as why your idea, your request is not as simple as you even realise. Hate for the catalyst for example between all fans produces dozens of methods they each want to change this. The reason why retake and the problem with your idea is the same, it's what you want and maybe few others but not what many others who also hate the part of the game you do, the method used.

Retake succeeded though, in as much as the slogan was demand a better ending for Mass Effect, and that is what was achieved. But you are correct in that people were and are displeased for a variety of reasons.

[Dragoonlordz]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Trust however is not required. Trust can be built upon over centuries, millenia or however long around for. Once helped rebuild they will not be hanging around street corners chatting with people, they will only come out to prevent wars and mass murder as a last resort. First like said by way of threat of conflict with them if do not stop in attempting to commit genocide on another species or groups trying to start wars. Out of sight out of mind when not doing such. Their only purpose once I became the whatever wish to call me is to protect species, prevent war and prevent genocide. Self preservation of all races and all species includes protection of themselves.

Not by means of mass harvesting or butchering species. It goes for all races and governments, if war is their intention it is no different to a terrorist group. No war will be allowed, not governments and not Reapers. The ones behind the plot will be stopped but only the ones behind it. Just like if they tried to create weapons to attack another race the ones behind that as individuals would be stopped by minimum force possible. The Reapers are a race now in my ending no different to Geth or Humans. All are protected including the Reapers from war. No government leaders or scientists will be allowed to create weapons for the sole purpose of killing another species including the Reapers.

Credit where it's due however that was a good argument you put forth.

trust is required, or that inevitable war will happen much sooner. TheReaper are best suited to waging war, not to clandestine investigations about what governments are doing. The various races aren't going to wait centuries to build trust. They are going to thank their lucky stars that the reapers stopped attacking. They will be hell bent to find a weapon to use against them. And whgen they do find one... If shepard is truly isolated form them.. it'll be war, wether shepard wants it or not.

You can distrust someone or something without trying to kill it. As for investigations that is quite simple really. A recruitment drive for those who wish to help, civilians of all races willing to assist in keeping the peace in the galaxy and there are many such people. Volunteering by free will to aid the strongest force in the galaxy to help keep peace, knowing all the facts about what that means (proximity to Repear tech) then helping search out such things. Can have people all over the place passing back information. I am sure I can convince Liara (my one as opposed to your one) to help too using her network. Helping rebuild will be first step in gaining a little trust if required and stopping the genocides, wars and mass murders by council races against other council species will build favor with those races extremely fast which will happen over time. Plus the supplying of aid in form of resources will too.

[CronoDragoon]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Nope not false.  No matter how bad or bold the rhetoric, it was up to BW to stop it when it got out of hand.  It was not up to anyone else to open their mouths and act as mods or to foment things.  IGN and other paid reviewers got involved in a way that I've never seen happen before and they should not have.  They never wrote one authentic piece about the issue to even try to understand what was going on.  And they lied about things even fairly recently.

I have modded on game devs' forums and other game forums before.  If someone gets out of hand, the mod handles it, not other users.  If the other user does, then they can both be banned.  It's up to the owner of the forum to handle the crowd.  I'm not saying people didn't get out of hand at all-I'm saying it doesn't help anyone to start labeling others no matter what. 

BioWare did step in when rules were broken. But you can't ban someone for being combative or disowning BioWare per se. And the bared fangs stance of the community existed even before the big gaming sites showed their true colors.

Edit: In any case, I'd be very happy if BW decided to release paid DLC for the endings, and we can be disappointed if it turns out they never do. I just don't want people to hold it against BioWare if they don't, which I feel is not what you are trying to accomplish and am glad for it.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 04 septembre 2012 - 03:31 .

[Warrior Craess]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


because Baldur's Gate wasn't Published by Bioware, and it basically takes longer to make games now than it did in the 90's because of new graphics and etc. The real problem is that Publishers like EA and Activi$ion always tries to beat there competition by trying to get their games out as quick as possible

I thought everyone did it this way, with the exception of Bethesda with the TES games. Do you have a source somewhere that shows the long dev cycle of other games in this day and age?

Any Blizzard game.