6432 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain McBuck]

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you understand that you compearing armies with limits in recources and numbers to the reapers who have no limits as a fleet?

Of course but that dosn't make the concept irelivent, the point was that wars of not turned on a single battle, History has proved us they can and do. and Actually the reapers do have limits, just not the same ones that we might expect, though they don't have a logistics train behind them as a conventional army they have to grind up the entire populaton of a species to replace a Sovereign class Reaper Dreadnought (ME2 taught us that) and the Species has to be compatable with the process of 'Accension' Harby even tells us Turians are "too primitive" to be Reaper-fied I don't know why that is. Organics don't in  fact acording to In-Universe lore the only limit on Dreadnought production was the Treaty of Farixan - Legislation not tehcnical complexity limited us.

[dreman9999]

@LadyWench

Again, It was never staed that bioware had to give you the choices you want. That not what the series is about.
And I don't think it's all black and white ether...It is grey ..That's why I'm ok with the improved endings. The issue here is not that you want a conventionaly victory ending but you want an ending with no compremises...That was never what BW stated the game was about...
 

"lots of choices, none of them easy."

That is what they advertized.

Do you even know what the orignal planned ending was? It was way more harsh than the ending we got.

With the orignal dark energy plot, the reaper were try to story the end of the galexy because it was losing dark energy and organic were making it drain faster.
The reaper found that humanity was a way to solve this and had to reaper to save the galexy.
You origanal choices were to let them reaper all of humanity including you or destroy the reapers and doom the galexy....

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 août 2012 - 07:00 .

[clennon8]

If the Destroy ending came with candy, Ieldra would still pick Synthesis, so I don't get his obsession with "balance."

Destroy is already by far the most popular choice, but that's only because Synthesis and Control are completely and utterly unchooseable (yes, I made that word up) to many people for thematic reasons. So, here's the thought we're left with: "Well, Destroy it is, I guess, no matter the cost. Goddamnit. What a waste of time making peace on Rannoch was. Screw you Bioware."

This issue of balancing the choices is a red herring. It's completely irrelevant.

Modifié par clennon8, 30 août 2012 - 06:56 .

[AlanC9]

Ieldra2 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
But while I'm at it: I've always thought that the destruction of the relays would be thematically appropriate for Destroy. So I'd find replacing the death of the geth with the destruction of the relays in all Destroy endings appropriate. But I get the feeling neither do people want that. So what would you all accept as "the" sacrifice for this new option - and it should be more than the war does anyway in all endings, or it would unbalance the scenario.

I thought unbalancing the scenario was the whole point of the proposal.

I thought so, too. 3DandBeyond assured me he (?) didn't want an ending without a downside. So I'm asking what significant downside he'd accept, specifically for this new Destroy option, above and beyond what the war already does in all the endings

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[zsom]

It's heartbreaking to see people who obviously enjoyed the series a lot be so disappointed, but I'm afraid the chances of your request happening are basically 0. Even if all the guys at Bioware wanted it to happen, they would never get the funding for it. It's just not up to them.

[Dragoonlordz]

clennon8 wrote...

If the Destroy ending came with candy, Ieldra would still pick Synthesis, so I don't get his obsession with "balance."

Destroy is already by far the most popular choice, but that's only because Synthesis and Control are completely and utterly unchooseable (yes, I made that word up) to many people for thematic reasons. So, here's the thought we're left with: "Well, Destroy it is, I guess, no matter the cost. Goddamnit. What a waste of time making peace on Rannoch was."

This issue of balancing the choices is a red herring. It's completely irrelevant.

Care to show evidence from an 'unbiased' poll that shows destroy was and is the most popular? I assume you realise what I mean by unbiased. Real question not sarcasm or being mean I just want to see such a poll. Even better do you have official Bioware released actual data gathering results which show it?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 30 août 2012 - 06:57 .

[dreman9999]

Captain McBuck wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Do you understand that you compearing armies with limits in recources and numbers to the reapers who have no limits as a fleet?

Of course but that dosn't make the concept irelivent, the point was that wars of not turned on a single battle, History has proved us they can and do. and Actually the reapers do have limits, just not the same ones that we might expect, though they don't have a logistics train behind them as a conventional army they have to grind up the entire populaton of a species to replace a Sovereign class Reaper Dreadnought (ME2 taught us that) and the Species has to be compatable with the process of 'Accension' Harby even tells us Turians are "too primitive" to be Reaper-fied I don't know why that is. Organics don't in  fact acording to In-Universe lore the only limit on Dreadnought production was the Treaty of Farixan - Legislation not tehcnical complexity limited us.

Of course it's irrelivent. Limited number can't beat near unlimited numbers especialy if those near unlimitedc numbers canmake unlimtied shock troopers and drones, are extremely hard to kill, needs nor recurces and  can one shot any one of our ships.
It takes a suicide  hit run mission to damage one reaper. How can you do that to a fleet of them? HE HAVE LIMITED everything. That can't beat the reapers numbers at all.

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

But while I'm at it: I've always thought that the destruction of the relays would be thematically appropriate for Destroy. So I'd find replacing the death of the geth with the destruction of the relays in all Destroy endings appropriate. But I get the feeling neither do people want that. So what would you all accept as "the" sacrifice for this new option - and it should be more than the war does anyway in all endings, or it would unbalance the scenario.

Destoying the relays in any ending kinda makes sense - though for destroy it makes the most sense - as the relays and the citadel were the hub of the cycle. And now that the cycle is over a new age begins. There is no more need for direction from starkid or the reapers.

I'd have been quite happy with this myself. I think the ME galaxy's more interesting if it's torn into fragments and all the clusters go their separate ways, politically, socially, and technologically.

I always thought was assumed in the Destroy endings anyway.  For the short term, at least.  while  the relays were being repaired.  Not to mention several homeworlds are trashed, galactic economy was already on the brink of ruin (anyone else catch that report on the CItadel?), etc.

These were not short term problems to be solved here, and they would have to be solved with no Reapers, and no space magic.

The sacrifices in the other endings are permanent. Shepard's dead in Synthesis, Shepard loses his humanity in Control. The other consequences, regardless of how you see them, are permanent or at least extremely long-term as well. Short-term doesn't count. The relays would have to be destroyed for good, they'd need to be completely rebuilt instead of just repaired to keep the balance if the geth were made to survive. That dark age implied by the original endings, that would be an acceptable price for having no other downside, namely keeping everyone alive.

Right, in COntrol and Synthesis, Shepard sacrifices himself for something that brings back galactic civilization much faster than tehy can on their own.  In Control, teh Reaper fleet helps rebuild and acts as a police force keeping the peace.  In Synthesis, the Reapers ally with the other races and share their knowledge.

In Destroy, the galactic races are well and truly on their own in cleaning up the mess the war left.  They have to repair the relays on their own, they have  to rebuild their worlds on their own, any Reaper knowledge will have to be reverse engineered on their own.  There are no more shortcuts.  The training wheels are off.

And if Shepard survives, he deserves to be shown living in that new world.

[AresKeith]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You think you have to read every single word to get an idea of what someone wants? Or are you merely moaning that I did not reply with mere "I agree" response? There is no decent discussion to have when you have a thread full of just yes-men.

really, calling us yes-men because we feel the same way she does in her OP. I don't have a problem with people liking the ending they wanted, but some of us don't like seeing some the choices we made in the series get nulled or having no effect thing endings or final battle like Bioware stated.

but apparently your just like that group of pro-enders who just trash on us and assume things

[daecath]

They aren't listening.

The EC proved that. The refuse ending was them throwing a temper tantrum because we didn't like their ending. Starbrat acting like a petulant child was a reflection of BioWare acting like a petulant child, taking their ball and going home because they didn't want to play with us any more.

Leviathan proved that. You go through a mediocre story at best until you get to the end. Then they have the big reveal - the Leviathan is just another way to shove the screwed up concepts from the ending down our throats, and everything else is just filler. It was desperation pure and simple.

They haven't said anything to address the pre-release statements and why they are so directly contradictory of what we actually got. They haven't addressed any of the hundreds of well thought out and well written criticisms. They keep spouting the same BS over and over. At this point, the only hope I can see for a fix is if EA goes down in flames, and whoever picks up the pieces takes BioWare off their leash (if they are on EA's leash, instead of just simply having lost their collective minds) and lets them finally do what they said they were planning on doing back before the game came out.

[babachewie]

The Arrogance. Do the right thing for who? You? Some psycho on this site 24/7 constantly whining like a 3 year old that didn't get what they wanted. Im glad they aren't listening to people like you. Its not gonna be Bioware that ruins this series. Its gonna be people like you with your insurmountable demands and expectation. Its a good thing you're a minority.

[AlanC9]

Warrior Craess wrote...
Here is the counter point that many of us are trying to get you to understand. There isn't anything difficult, or hard about the ending choices of ME3.  There is no emotive context to it, becuase the rest of the theme of the ME series has been discarded. The options are nothing more than which one do I like best at this point. There is no morality to thses choices, because there is no history to it (at least in game).  The EC made the endings better, but still not thematically consistant with the rest of the ME series. 

Huh? You seem to be saying that whether a decision is hard depends on stuff outside the consequences of that decision. If that's you point, count me as another one who doesn't understand it.

[saracen16]

zsom wrote...

It's heartbreaking to see people who obviously enjoyed the series a lot be so disappointed, but I'm afraid the chances of your request happening are basically 0. Even if all the guys at Bioware wanted it to happen, they would never get the funding for it. It's just not up to them.

Forget the practical considerations. The OP is loaded up to the brim with emotional blackmail, a most reprehensible tactic, the same low tactic used by those "Hold the Line" gamers who donated to Child's Play in order to get the developers to submit to their ridiculous demands.

[Conniving_Eagle]

This thread is going places. Who wants to place bets on which moderator is going to lock it?

[robertthebard]

ThaDPG wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

...You do realize they've already stated that beyond the EC they don't plan to change the endings. Maybe adjust dialog (like they did with Leviathan), which I'd expect. But you're never going to get a full adjustment. You're going to have to accept the endings as they are.

They can keep all the endings as they are now if they want, because I know some people are satisfied with them, but there is still room for a high EMS refusal option to be added onto refusal via DLC without changing anything before it.

You mean to say, the MP required ending?  You know the thing that people that didn't want MP in the first place would be forced to do if they wanted to get the superior ending.  Yeah, that'll go over well, won't it?  All that will do is change the crowd that's on here all day every day complaining.

[LadyWench]

dreman9999 wrote...

@LadyWench

Again, It was never staed that bioware had to give you the choices you want. That not what the series is about.
And I don't think it's all black and white ether...It isgrey ..That's why I'm ok with the improved endings. The issue hereis not that you want a convention ending but you want an ending with no compremises...That was never what BW stated the game was about...
 

"lots of choices, none of them easy."

That is what they advertized.

Do you even know what the orignal planned ending was? It was way more harsh than the ending we got.

With the orignal dark energy plot, the reaper were try to story the end of the galexy because it was losing dark energy and organic were making it drain faster.
The reaper found that humanity was a way to solve this and had to reaper to save the galexy.
You origanal choices were to let them reaper all of humanity including you or destroy the reapers and doom the galexy....

Yes, I know. And here is the link to what I said this waaay back at the beginning of this thread, if you are so inclined: Conventional victory does not mean victory without cost. If anything, it means even more risk and loss. But it's damn more satisfying.

I never said anyone had to GIVE me anything that I personally want. I just said there is enough interest in the BW fanbase for this option. That's really all. No demanding or whining. Just observing.

[Thaa_solon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

This thread is going places. Who wants to place bets on which moderator is going to lock it?

10 bucks on ninja stan

[Conniving_Eagle]

Thaa_solon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

This thread is going places. Who wants to place bets on which moderator is going to lock it?

10 bucks on ninja stan

Another 10 on Chris Priestly.

[BatmanPWNS]

What did I miss?

[AlanC9]

daecath wrote...

They aren't listening.

The EC proved that. The refuse ending was them throwing a temper tantrum because we didn't like their ending. 

Really? I thought it was Bio giving us an expanded RP choice without restructuring the entire ME universe to accommodate that choice.

[Thaa_solon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Thaa_solon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

This thread is going places. Who wants to place bets on which moderator is going to lock it?

10 bucks on ninja stan

Another 10 on Chris Priestly.

Raise you another 30 on ninja stan

[AlanC9]

robertthebard wrote...

You mean to say, the MP required ending?  You know the thing that people that didn't want MP in the first place would be forced to do if they wanted to get the superior ending.  Yeah, that'll go over well, won't it?  All that will do is change the crowd that's on here all day every day complaining.

We already had that, come to think of it. Yep, didn't work.

[AresKeith]

saracen16 wrote...

zsom wrote...

It's heartbreaking to see people who obviously enjoyed the series a lot be so disappointed, but I'm afraid the chances of your request happening are basically 0. Even if all the guys at Bioware wanted it to happen, they would never get the funding for it. It's just not up to them.

Forget the practical considerations. The OP is loaded up to the brim with emotional blackmail, a most reprehensible tactic, the same low tactic used by those "Hold the Line" gamers who donated to Child's Play in order to get the developers to submit to their ridiculous demands.

I didn't know a plea was a demand, or is that another headcanon

[Darth Asriel]

Great post OP! I stand with you.

[AlanC9]

saracen16 wrote...

Forget the practical considerations. The OP is loaded up to the brim with emotional blackmail, a most reprehensible tactic, the same low tactic used by those "Hold the Line" gamers who donated to Child's Play in order to get the developers to submit to their ridiculous demands.

That's unfair. From what I've seen that's his real emotional state.