6432 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

robertthebard wrote...

I can spacebar through it on PC, but I can't avoid it, of course, I can't figure out how to play w/out having to go through Origins, which sucked the other day when my ISP was on strike for a couple of hours.  The only place Earth is really mentioned is on the Collector ship during the the segment before you find out it was a trap.  When they're talking about all the pods, and the plans the Collectors may have.

Overall, I don't think it would be a "bad thing" to include the comic synopsis.  From my perspective, it is unnecessary, since I do play all three to get specific details if I want them, and have the comic for general info from 1 if I just want to jump in with a new Shepard idea, and some of the side side quests in 1 don't matter to the basic theme.  I just can't see what choices they would include from 2 that would compel me to buy it so I could skip 2 for the same reasons.

Hmm, maybe it works different on PC.  I have it for PS3 and xbox as I've said.  You should be able to bypass it.

My point about the comics is just that I would have preferred that they never consider any ME game a standalone since they were a series and so they should have included the synopsis for each iteration (optional yes, and still then have it make decisions for you).  Things they could have done is include the synopsis with decison making, include a synopsis with decisions already made that are stated in the synopsis, or a total bypass that would not have included a synopsis (for those that don't care about the previous story) where decisions have been made for you and you just play it.  If you're clueless at points and want to know what's going on-view the synopsis.  I'm not big on such things, but I think it would have been far better than trying to appeal to new players and creating a disconnect for legacy players.  And don't misunderstand me-I think that should have been included in all games-not at extra cost. 

It's kind of what people think the books are for and that truly does get to me.  The books should be totally extra unneeded info, but some of the content is meant to explain things happening in the games.  I really detest this.  The games are expensive enough for a lot of people and then with DLC on top of it (and they've already set this "precedent" where optional DLC is needed in the game), some people just plain can't buy all of this stuff to get content that should be in the core game.

This may seem to be contrary to what I'm suggesting here-paying for an optional "better"ending-and I won't disagree with that.  My preference would be to have that option and then to make it a point that this is the line in the sand.  The reason being that from now on games that come out are not insta-buys for me.  Games from all companies.  I'm going to want to know if the game fails on some level.  And I'm not even yet sure how to do that.  I don't want to go through spoilers to learn if the ending is great or not.  But, I think I'll want to know way more than I've ever cared to know in the past.  And BW has one chance really to bring a lot of people back into the "fan" category where new games are likely buys.  I like to have good feelings after playing games, especially those with so much of an investment of time and all.  I'm just expressing a wish and a hope here-if it's ignored then so be it.  No threats, no hate.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 septembre 2012 - 02:45 .

[Xellith]

If ME3 was a person it would be a ginger because it has no soul

[MegaSovereign]

Xellith wrote...

If ME3 was a person it would be a ginger because it has no soul

Legion is in ME3 and he has a soul.

[MaxMcKay]

Xellith wrote...

DO NOT QUESTION THEIR ART PEASANTS!

About fell out my chair laughing when I read that great line!

As to the Op have to agree, I still get a bit upset about the whole "Art" comments vs their stated comments about choice mattering....then watching it all goto a skittles ending.

[Vigilant111]

Money should only be secondary, appreciation is the most prized...

Modifié par Vigilant111, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:34 .

[3DandBeyond]

I do want to make a separate point of something I said in one post, because I think it's important to know it.

I see people calling those that dislike the endings haters. I disagree.

I loved ME1 and ME2-nothing within them broke them for me. So those get 100% of my love. I loved 90% of ME3 and disliked the endings and some other minutiae that was not as important as those endings.

That means I loved 97% of ME and disliked about 3%. That doesn't make me a hater. It just points out that for me that 3% carries a lot of weight-it's especially important because most of it comes at the very end of the series. It is all that remains and forms the feeling I have for the whole series. And it is about emotion. You cannot argue with emotion. And much of ME relies on the emotions created in the game and with the characters.  Good stories do this-it is of prime importance.

I say this because there's a lot in the games that is not logical, makes no sense for many. Some find the opening of ME2 to be way off for them. What carries it all for me is emotion and that is what stories do best. There are writers that don't write great books, but they tell stories in great ways. You love to read what they write even if the stuff isn't totally great all along-their writing is. I find that true of Stephen King. He writes great characters, creates compelling narrative that I like to read. I feel the endings are not great IMO. I loved the story, "It" until I got to the end and found out what it was.

I see a corollary here with ME for me. I loved it and that allowed me to get beyond some of the disbelief that occurred along the way. I never liked the kid (in the vent or not), but I could have accepted him if not for the endings.

But that main point is that 3% dislike of the whole ME series does not make me a hater. It just means that this dislike came at the worst possible place of all.

I speak for myself here, but I think that possibilities exist for making lemonade out of this whole situation. View us all, not from some imposed idea of what we are, but from what we say we are-we've loved ME, so see us like that. Don't keep looking at us as those that wish to hurt you-view us as some that think in helping you we can help ourselves as well.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:21 .

[Gtacatalina]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Gtacatalina wrote...

@3DandBeyond

I just found it all a real shame to have such a disappointing ending to one of my all time fave games.

Bioware gave us the EC begrudingly in my mind, and after 6 months I just think they want all the people to disappear that were disappointed with the ending of the trilogy.

They have already said that there will be no other endings after EC and with the lastest tweets I've just seen from Mike Gamble this really is the end my Shepard is going to get, breathing under some rubble, while my friends and loved ones stand by the memorial on the Normandy


''Shepard waking up is not saved for a future game either. This is the end of Shepard What you saw is all you'll get on the matter''
http://twitter.com/thespotlessvoid
http://twitter.com/GambleMike

Yes, I do understand all that.  I'm not living in a fantasy LOL.  I appreciate the links.  What I've said all along here is that I'm just asking BW to reconsider all that.  Take another gander at what people have been saying and why it is so important to them.  Make peace with fans who want to make peace as well.  Peace is a strong word since I don't mean we are at war at all.  We are not.  What I mean is really take a look at what resonated with fans in ME.  It wasn't coolness or people would have stopped playing after the 50th time they heard, "enemies everywhere".  It was about characters and the emotional bonds created within the game.  I don't mean everyone just loved every character, but I mean it was an immersive, character based story. And Shepard was the most important one of all.

I do understand where you are coming from and it would be great if they would really listen. I agree the emotional bonds with the characters they created in the game as well as the story was what got me hooked on Mass Effect. I've lost count how many times I've played the first one
 

A mature person would throw off the hurt feelings this debacle has caused, break through the noise, and take a look at what they did best in these games. 
snip
 

For me the problems have come from Bioware right from the beginning with the pre release interviews promising things that just didn't happen.
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Then when the the chaos began about the endings Bioware's respose in my opinion was extremely unprofessional and sometimes antagonistic , the constant closing down of threads where people had genuine concerns , 4000EMS SP Issue, Face Import Issues, What Happened To The Crew On Lost Island...... It could have all been handled a lot better rather than 'We Do Not Lie' LOCKDOWN (which happened many times on the EMS SP Issue threads)

Modifié par Gtacatalina, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:24 .

[Xellith]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Xellith wrote...

If ME3 was a person it would be a ginger because it has no soul

Legion is in ME3 and he has a soul.

Yes but he is not a ginger

[Killdren88]

Gtacatalina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Gtacatalina wrote...

@3DandBeyond

I just found it all a real shame to have such a disappointing ending to one of my all time fave games.

Bioware gave us the EC begrudingly in my mind, and after 6 months I just think they want all the people to disappear that were disappointed with the ending of the trilogy.

They have already said that there will be no other endings after EC and with the lastest tweets I've just seen from Mike Gamble this really is the end my Shepard is going to get, breathing under some rubble, while my friends and loved ones stand by the memorial on the Normandy


''Shepard waking up is not saved for a future game either. This is the end of Shepard What you saw is all you'll get on the matter''
http://twitter.com/thespotlessvoid
http://twitter.com/GambleMike

Yes, I do understand all that.  I'm not living in a fantasy LOL.  I appreciate the links.  What I've said all along here is that I'm just asking BW to reconsider all that.  Take another gander at what people have been saying and why it is so important to them.  Make peace with fans who want to make peace as well.  Peace is a strong word since I don't mean we are at war at all.  We are not.  What I mean is really take a look at what resonated with fans in ME.  It wasn't coolness or people would have stopped playing after the 50th time they heard, "enemies everywhere".  It was about characters and the emotional bonds created within the game.  I don't mean everyone just loved every character, but I mean it was an immersive, character based story. And Shepard was the most important one of all.

I do understand where you are coming from and it would be great if they would really listen. I agree the emotional bonds with the characters they created in the game as well as the story was what got me hooked on Mass Effect. I've lost count how many times I've played the first one
 

A mature person would throw off the hurt feelings this debacle has caused, break through the noise, and take a look at what they did best in these games. 
snip
 

For me the problems have come from Bioware right from the beginning with the pre release interviews promising things that just didn't happen.
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Then when the the chaos began about the endings Bioware's respose in my opinion was extremely unprofessional and sometimes antagonistic , the constant closing down of threads where people had genuine concerns , 4000EMS SP Issue, Face Import Issues, What Happened To The Crew On Lost Island...... It could have all been handled a lot better rather than 'We Do Not Lie' LOCKDOWN (which happened many times on the EMS SP Issue threads)

Shocked, After reading that list, I've become even more despressed.

[Remanentmoss01]

Talking about Stephen King i loved the way The Dark Tower ended by coming full circle echoing the poem it was based on , which is just as well since i think i waited over 25 years from when i read the first book ,
Waiting 5 years for ME was a breeze
On topic , I pretty much agree with what your saying OP

[3DandBeyond]

@Gtacatalina,

The hurt feelings I was speaking of were BW's hurt feelings.  I think they have done themselves a disservice here by on the one hand not acting as human beings and on the other hand acting too much like human beings.  Yes, people that criticized them got out of control.  I want to explain this without assigning blame because each side can discuss this till the cows come home and it becomes the chicken and egg argument-no resolution. 

What I mean about hurt feelings is this:

Mike Gamble stated on twitter that it took a full 20 seconds before he found some hate on the BSN directed at him.  I don't consider this to be a mature thing to tweet.  It helps no one.  It also indicates a focus on personal things-companies cannot afford to allow themselves to wallow in this because no good comes of it.  Yes, it exists, but BW is a company.  And yes, they are also people.  But companies have to walk a fine line here.  And that tweet brought out tweets from others that put everyone here in a bad light.  How does that help anything?  I'm not picking on Mike, but this is repeated over and over again in tweets I see by BW employees.  It creates an Us vs. Them scenario or rather it foments it. 

One BW employee just seemed to love all the sympathy and praise garnered from tweeting how misused and abused s/he (not going to specify who this person is) is on the BSN.  Well, this is so unprofessional as to be ridiculous.  Those are comments best left to those within your inner circle (family, friends, coworkers) and not to be handed out to the general public.  Companies I work for in fact never allowed employees to disparage customers EVER.  Professionalism is key.

My other point is that companies also do have to respond as human beings.  Understand that when criticized you respond both professionally and personally.  Professionally means you don't disparage your customers even when they are disparaging you-you are paid to take the insults with a grain of salt and to get beyond them.  If someone threatens you, then you go through channels and take action on that.  But you don't make your corporate forum appear to be a bunch of clowns and reprobates.  What does that say about your company?

As human beings companies must understand the things they do affect real people and they need to respond to that and with that in mind.  If someone dislikes you personally or your company, or provides feedback you act as a human being and indicate a desire to understand that from a respectful, human perspective.  Again, you don't paint everyone with a broad brush and act from a position of bruised feelings. 

In this thread I am trying to appeal to them to act as professional human beings.  Stop looking at this as all about hate for the company and for the individuals.  I don't hate any of them-I don't personally know them.  This brings up another problem with twitter-it's the idea that those tweeting their support and sympathy are necessarily doing so for the "right" reasons.  BW employees have no idea who these people are that are tweeting them-good or bad.  That's the problem with people in a company acting out of their emotions.

But there does need to be a human assessment of the disconnect many feel here.  Authors do change the endings of stories, movie makers do change the endings of movies, game devs do change the endings of games.  It doesn't make any person less of a person for considering to do so-it affirms their strength of character.  And we would be willing to pay for it.

[3DandBeyond]

Gtacatalina wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
A mature person would throw off the hurt feelings this debacle has caused, break through the noise, and take a look at what they did best in these games. 
snip
 

For me the problems have come from Bioware right from the beginning with the pre release interviews promising things that just didn't happen.
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Oh yes I am very aware of all of those things-I am talking about them being mature and throwing off the hurt feelings and taking a look at their games and what they did best.  I was saying that in some ways they have forgotten where they came from.  That list is a lot of their noise and there is also the noise of our criticism of them.

I think they are acting from too much of a self-protective stance and that is detrimental.  I can constantly go back and point my finger at them and that would be valid.  And they can then come back and point a finger at me and that would be valid.

They said things and we said things.  They did things and we did things.  I can clearly make the case for who did what when and be right and I can be right on into eternity.  I don't want to be right.  I don't care who is right so much anymore.  I can live with being wrong and just ask them to take a look back and then consider the future and what they want that to be like. 

I don't believe they want the BSN to be a no man's land for BW employees.  I have never wanted it to be that.  It should be their home where they come to discuss things and promote fun, like Chris Priestly does with the MP challenges.  It should be a forum for real discussion and not finger pointing and name calling.  And criticism that is constructive (takes the form of "I didn't like this because") and praise that is valued as well as feedback from the devs and fans alike should exist here.

At some point someone must step forward and say it's enough.  I'm probably failing at that, but it is part of what I want to happen here.  I want dialogue between fans and BW to return-I don't want to be adversaries.  I want them to know I have my wallet open to good content.  And I'm trying to say what I think could help to get a lot of people to come to the same point.  I don't want Mike Gamble to only see hate-I think he has to meet us halfway, but we need to be responsible too.  They can't go back and change what they said and promises they maybe couldn't keep and we can't go back and un-say what we've said, but we can all take a step forward today together.  Marshmallows are optional.

[3DandBeyond]

Remanentmoss01 wrote...

Talking about Stephen King i loved the way The Dark Tower ended by coming full circle echoing the poem it was based on , which is just as well since i think i waited over 25 years from when i read the first book ,
Waiting 5 years for ME was a breeze
On topic , I pretty much agree with what your saying OP

I haven't read The Dark Tower-I've read plenty of Stephen King and I do love the way he writes.  I just never like the endings. 

I've read enough to have even read the short story that The Stand is based on.  His books are like a marathon that is ok until you fall flat on your face at the end.  That's my opinion and no slam intended for those that love his books. 

[Gtacatalina]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@Gtacatalina,

The hurt feelings I was speaking of were BW's hurt feelings.

Yes I understood that  Ithink maybe we are on cross purposes here because I was saying probably not very well, that I think Bioware could have handled things a lot better if they hadn't let their hurt feelings and pride get in the way. And as you said before a lot of the people who didn't like the endings like myself still have love for Mass Effect.

 

What I mean about hurt feelings is this:

Mike Gamble stated on twitter that it took a full 20 seconds before he found some hate on the BSN directed at him.  I don't consider this to be a mature thing to tweet.  It helps no one.  It also indicates a focus on personal things-companies cannot afford to allow themselves to wallow in this because no good comes of it.  Yes, it exists, but BW is a company.  And yes, they are also people.  But companies have to walk a fine line here.  And that tweet brought out tweets from others that put everyone here in a bad light.  How does that help anything?  I'm not picking on Mike, but this is repeated over and over again in tweets I see by BW employees.  It creates an Us vs. Them scenario or rather it foments it. 

 
I completely agree with you here. In fact I think all Bioware employees should stop tweeting on the game as it just confuses people and gets people angry when they decide to tweet when characters are dead!

One BW employee just seemed to love all the sympathy and praise garnered from tweeting how misused and abused s/he (not going to specify who this person is) is on the BSN.  Well, this is so unprofessional as to be ridiculous.  Those are comments best left to those within your inner circle (family, friends, coworkers) and not to be handed out to the general public.  Companies I work for in fact never allowed employees to disparage customers EVER.  Professionalism is key.

Again I agree, and think they should leave the official Mass Effect Tweet to deal with anything Mass Effect.

My other point is that companies also do have to respond as human beings.  Understand that when criticized you respond both professionally and personally.  Professionally means you don't disparage your customers even when they are disparaging you-you are paid to take the insults with a grain of salt and to get beyond them.  If someone threatens you, then you go through channels and take action on that.  But you don't make your corporate forum appear to be a bunch of clowns and reprobates.  What does that say about your company?

Which is exactly how they made many feel to many of the genuine issues concerning Mass Effect 3 with the constant LOCKDOWN of threads that I said in my previous post.
snip

If Bioware employees had spent less time on twitter and come on to the BSN where us registered game members are, and tried to sort out some of the genuine issues instead of the LOCKDOWNS then I think things would have been a bit calmer on the forums.

Modifié par Gtacatalina, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:15 .

[RenegonSQ]

Keep this thread alive.

[Pheonix57]

RenegonSQ wrote...

Keep this thread alive.

Most definitely.

[3DandBeyond]

Gtacatalina wrote...


If Bioware employees had spent less time on twitter and come on to the BSN where us registered game members are, and tried to sort out some of the genuine issues instead of the LOCKDOWNS then I think things would have been a bit calmer on the forums.

Agreed, but unfortunately none of us can go back and we must at some point move forward.  They can decide the direction that will take and make it constructive, but so can we perhaps help to guide that by being constructive as well.  That doesn't mean we all want to have blue babies together, but it can mean that we agree to express ourselve in a decent manner if they agree to truly listen and converse, and I agree that it should take place with regsitered game owners.  You go on twitter and you have no idea if that person expressing undying love even ever played a BW game.  You come on here and know that the person that says that a certain story line didn't work because of x, y, and z owns and has played the game.  I suggest that as a way forward.  I've seen it done on other forums.  In fact, there are some (and I belong to one) corporate tech forums that enlist users to help them help others so as to make for better corporate relations.  I find it funny they like to call us "experts" (I am not one), but this promotes some goodwill and it does help to kind of streamline issues.  It also helps avoid heavy handedness that does exist on some other forums, where no dissent is allowed and people get banned for things like necroing topics.  I'm not saying you do that here, but this site is not used to encourage anything.

[Pheonix57]

I think the most painful thing about the ending is that it makes the entire series seem pointless. I can't even play the first game anymore without the daunting realization that nothing I'm doing will matter.

[Benchpress610]

3DandBeyond wrote...
*snip*

Mike Gamble stated on twitter that it took a full 20 seconds before he found some hate on the BSN directed at him.  I don't consider this to be a mature thing to tweet.  It helps no one.  It also indicates a focus on personal things-companies cannot afford to allow themselves to wallow in this because no good comes of it.  Yes, it exists, but BW is a company.  And yes, they are also people.  But companies have to walk a fine line here.  And that tweet brought out tweets from others that put everyone here in a bad light.  How does that help anything?  I'm not picking on Mike, but this is repeated over and over again in tweets I see by BW employees.  It creates an Us vs. Them scenario or rather it foments it. 
*snip*

The few times I watched Mike Gamble being interviewed or making statements, he comes across as immature IMO

[3DandBeyond]

Pheonix57 wrote...

I think the most painful thing about the ending is that it makes the entire series seem pointless. I can't even play the first game anymore without the daunting realization that nothing I'm doing will matter.

That's the thing about it.  I cringe every time I read (and I've read plenty of these things) where someone says the EC was good enough, it gave them an ending, not the one they wanted but now they can be done with ME and move onto something else.  That means replayability and DLC and so on are basically dead for a lot of people that are ok now that the EC has been released.  This is not good for anyone going forward and not good for BW.  It's also not how I played ME1 and 2-I completed them several times and still would do so again if I didn't have that same thing echoing in my hollow head-"none of it matters, you know how bad the end is".

[Iakus]

Pheonix57 wrote...

I think the most painful thing about the ending is that it makes the entire series seem pointless. I can't even play the first game anymore without the daunting realization that nothing I'm doing will matter.

This.  I uninstalled the entire trilogy.  I just can't bear to play any of them anymore.  Because as you said, none of it matters.  The best Shepard can hope for is to be half-dead in a pile of rubble.

Modifié par iakus, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Pheonix57]

3DandBeyond wrote...

That's the thing about it.  I cringe every time I read (and I've read plenty of these things) where someone says the EC was good enough, it gave them an ending, not the one they wanted but now they can be done with ME and move onto something else.  That means replayability and DLC and so on are basically dead for a lot of people that are ok now that the EC has been released.  This is not good for anyone going forward and not good for BW.  It's also not how I played ME1 and 2-I completed them several times and still would do so again if I didn't have that same thing echoing in my hollow head-"none of it matters, you know how bad the end is".

I thought I was happy with the EC until I realized that I wanted nothing to do with Mass Effect anymore. I never put the discs in, I don't write fanfiction anymore, I hardly even talk about it these days-- And before the ending it was all I could think about. Hell, I even dreamt about Mass Effect.

[Pheonix57]

And I should correct myself, because it isn't just the Mass Effect series that Bioware's poor writing has tainted. As a result, I have now given up on the Dragon Age series as well, for fear that it will leave me feeling much the same.

Modifié par Pheonix57, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:51 .

[Ozida]

Pheonix57 wrote...

I thought I was happy with the EC until I realized that I wanted nothing to do with Mass Effect anymore. I never put the discs in, I don't write fanfiction anymore, I hardly even talk about it these days-- And before the ending it was all I could think about. Hell, I even dreamt about Mass Effect.

Same here. I honestly thought I will be replaying ME3 at least 4-5 times in a row, like I did with previous two games, and I haven't replayed it even once. I don't even have an interest to replay ME1 and ME2 any more, and not because I am protesting against something, but simply because it is not that exciting anymore. I would never think in my whole life that a 10-minutes nonsense can ruin something so badly for me! And I've seen much worse trash in games and movies, believe me, but ME3 ending fiasco is just something phenomenal!