597 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

TK Dude wrote...

Troxa wrote...

The writing

Seriously! It's like the entire writing team had mental retardation during the development.

If thats the case then you would have to say this about ME1 and ME2 since most of the ME team members were present for all 3 games.

BringBackNihlus wrote...

If you want to know what's wrong with ME3, go read the thread about the deleted content of ME3. 

That should give you some idea. The things that they could have had in this game, but deleted, absolutely boggles my mind.

How is that when everything has cut content whether its a novel, comic, tv show, movie, game, or song.  

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:30 .

[Jvolikas]

-StarBrat
-Crucible (its entire construction did not feel well implemented into the story)
-Squad felt incomplete (dialogue was not fleshed out, especially VS)
-Awful journal system
-Fetch quests
-Day 1 DLC
-Import disaster at release
-Not including many ME1 or ME2 characters (Gianna, Lorik, Kal' Reegar, etc)

[jkflipflopDAO]

The writing just completely sucked. I mean it was bad. It's like the first game never happened, and the ending does't need anymore said on that.

Helping the Geth and Quarians come together and Mordin curing the genophage were some of the stand-out moments of greatness.

Everything from Thessia onwards was obviously done in some sort of rush to meet a deadline. The quality just falls off a cliff at that point. Priority Earth was one of the biggest let-downs I've ever experienced.

[Menagra]

The core design of the game. They literally embraced the idea of filling up a bar to open up certain options. This just takes you out of the experience as Rachni, Krogan and everything else is all summarized by a number. It ruins the immersion. It has always been part of Bioware's paragon/renagade system to have some sort of bar filling up depending on your decision(light/dark, rival/friend etc) but that has always seemed to be a way of show where your character leans in the decisions. Taking the feeling that the meter merely shows which direction your character is headed and replacing it with a bucket to dump your points into was the worst decision they made. The meter keeping track of where you decisions were taking you was kept hidden as it was good game design to make the game truly immersive and interactive.

In ME3 they embraced making the bar visible to the point that they ditched many of the "impact" cinematics and have everything have a value to fill up the bar more. You don't SEE the rachni queen have an impact, you read it on the War Terminal. The wonder of the game is completely lost by this as you see right in front of your the core design of the game, therefore the flaws become much more noticeable. If there was no ems points they would have had to find more innovative ways to made decisions have an impact, and those innovative ideas would have been much less noticeable to the average player. Therefore the immersion would have continued to be phenomenal as they were in Bioware's past.

[N147]

Now with the Extended Cut, I can forgive the endings, but Priority Earth is still the most disappointing final mission to a game, let alone a trilogy.

[George Costanza]

Mordak55 wrote...

George Costanza wrote...

I don't think there's actually that much wrong with Mass Effect 3. A lot of it was really good. It's just that the bits that are bad are quite crippling to the whole.

Biggest issue for me is the Crucible. Shepard is on Earth as the Reapers turn up and start booting off. There's no hope. The galaxy is finished. He flies off to Mars. And ten minutes later Liara tells him she's just found a superweapon blueprint left by the Protheans. Great timing. In the 50,000 years since their time, we've just stumbled upon this as the Reapers arrive.

From there, the Crucible just becomes even more mind bogglingly stupid as a plot device. The allies have literally no idea what the thing does. They don't know how to turn the thing on. And they don't even know what one of the major components (the catalyst) is. And yet our leaders decide to pool untold amounts of resources into building it. Resources that could be spent helping worlds under attack. I find it literally incredible that any military leader since the dawn of time could think that building a device with untold properties on the suggestion that it could be a weapon capable of defeating the Reapers would choose to do that instead of fight for survival.

Yes, conventional victory blah blah impossible etc etc. That's why they built it. Nonsense, I say. We only have people telling us that conventional victory is impossible to prop up this ridiculous plot device. Conventional victory is never impossible. It's just increasing variations of unlikely. I concur, that the Reapers are a massive threat. But we've seen that they can be beaten. And with the right strategy, and a better chance than any other cycle because of the Prothean sabotage and a united galaxy behind us, it might just work. And by right strategy I mean some sort of military strategy that doesn't involve putting all our time and effort into building a gigantic, magical space maraca.

But from there it just gets worse. We spend the whole game getting resources for this thing. The plot is based around it. So its stupidity infects the rest of the game, too. And then we get to the ending. Wow.

So here, we have a machine, built by our allies. We've covered that nobody has a ****ing clue what the thing does. But we've got it built. Then we find out what it does. This machine is literally unbelievable in its design. If you walk over to the right, there's what appears to be some sort of tubing. And if you shoot this tubing then the Crucible kicks out red space lasers that outright kill synthetic intelligent life. Somehow these lasers can discriminate between synthetic life and dish washers and the like. I don't know how, you don't know how. It just does, right? Wunderbar.

Okay, some questions. Let's go back to the first cycle that built the Crucible. They designed it. They came up with the idea, the blueprints, everything. And they passed this down to future civilizations. When they were designing it, surely they knew what the Catalyst was. They came up with the idea for the machine. They knew what they needed to make it work. You don't design a car and then at the eleventh hour go, "Oh ****, how are we going to make this thing move without some like round things in all four corners to help it roll?". We know they were advanced because the machine is advanced. And so they must have known what they needed to make it fire. So why didn't they pass the information down? Why does no future civilization know what the Catalyst is?

If these designers could conceive of a weapon that could fire out red lasers capable of killing synthetic life and ending the war then unless the Reapers did a sterling job of keeping the Citadel under control, then I find it troubling to think they never managed to fire the weapon. Even if that did happen, the second cycle should have been able to. And why the **** didn't they design it with a button?

But not only does this amazing invention have the ability to pick out the clever robots and drop them down dead. They've also designed it to have some sort of conduit which a silly person could put his hands into, which would allow the person to upload their consciousness and take over the Reapers. Yeah. Just like that.

Same issues apply to Control, only with an addition. Control implies uploading the users consciousness to the Reaper horde and becoming their new collective intelligence. Essentially replacing the Catalyst. Woah woah woah. So not only do our intrepid Crucible designers know what the Catalyst is, but they know how to overwrite him and allow another to take over? Outstanding. Makes you wonder why none of this information was passed down along with the plans. Probably needed that. Could've helped.

And then a real doozy. Synthesis. Good gravy, Marie. So we've got a machine that can excrete two completely different forms of energy. It's also been designed to kick out a third. This type of energy can alter the fundamental building blocks of all life as we know it, to make it part synthetic. Yeah, I know. This race was so advanced, that they could actually alter the very stuff we're made out of at the atomic level. They were so advanced that they could make this happen with the only apparent side effect being green eyes. And they were so advanced that they could give synthetic life what they'd always wanted - to truly understand the way organics think.

This race was pretty advanced, by my reckoning. Wait. The Reapers knew this, right? And Synthesis is the "ideal solution" as stated by the Catalyst, is it not? So then dare I ask why the **** they didn't just let them do it? It's what they wanted. It was their ideal solution. Why didn't they just let them get on with it?

I could probably rant about how idiotic the idea of the Crucible causing Synthesis is for the remainder of the afternoon, but we haven't got all day so I'm going to wrap this up.

I'm going to leave you with this. The Reapers know of the Crucible, right? But the Illusive Man has to tell them what the Catalyst is, right? Now, what do the Reapers do? They make scary noises. They blow **** up. They're generally bad eggs. But what they also do, is they harvest the most advanced civilizations, and upload their minds into Reaper form. I wonder, then, how it is that the Reapers first of all don't know that the Citadel is the catalyst, and second, where the plans for the Crucible have been left for future civilizations so they could just destroy them and not have to worry next cycle.

Weird that.

The entire idea of the Crucible should have been nixed in the pre-production stage. It's idiotic. It's bad writing. Conceptually, it's laughable. There is literally not one good thing I can say about its inclusion in the story. In fact, whoever came up with it should go and have a long hard look in the mirror and decide whether they really want to be a writer. It's the sort of thing a seven year old would come up with at the last minute after they remembered they hadn't done their creative writing homework.

Appalling, bargain basement, rank amateur science fiction writing at its very worst.

Good read you manage to put down several points I have thought as well. I guess the excuss is that the plot is secondry to the "shooty gun" side of the game to attract all the FPS new fans they wanted. 

It's just so lazy. It's like they just couldn't be bothered to come up with an actual way to end the war so they just settle for a ridiculous machine that can do it at the flick of a switch.

[Sable Rhapsody]

The heart. I can't point to any one mechanic or any particular plot element, not even the much-criticized ending. But I'm accustomed to BioWare's games making me laugh, cry, feel, and ponder. Even Dragon Age 2, riddled with polish and design issues, got a powerful emotional reaction from me. Apart from a few moments (curing the genophage, Anderson's death, Rannoch, and some of the squaddie dialogues), ME3 felt hollow. I didn't think my reaction to game three of a space opera would be, "Bah. Whatever."

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 09 septembre 2012 - 10:19 .

[Eryri]

The fact that for 95% of the game, you are hit over the head with the theme that TIM's quest to control the Reapers is an act of monstrous folly. That ruthless ambition and the pursuit of absolute power are generally bad things.

Then 5 minutes before the end, after convincing TIM that it's such a bad idea he should shoot himself for coming up with it, Shepard gets the opportunity to do the exact same thing, without even raising an eyebrow!

As other's have said it's a bit like Frodo deciding the Ring is OK to use after all, before making himself the new Dark Lord of Mordor. Hideous betrayal of a theme running throughout the game.

Oh and synthesis is revolting.

Modifié par Eryri, 09 septembre 2012 - 11:33 .

[Gimmethayayo]

ME2 characters only making "cameos"

The endings

The extra cheese [that Kai Lang ending was so stupid]

[hadrain77]

The disk swapping, game was so linear why so much disk swapping.

[Ziegrif]

No Legion or Zaeed as a squad mates.

Harbinger was made to STFU... I miss him.

[robertm2]

if i have to pick one thing which is not easy it would be the lack of interactive dialogue with people on your ship. Instead of getting 4 or 5 dynamic conversations with them you got to talk to them once on the ship and once on the citadel none of which really gave you any information or let you make any decisions as to what the tone of the conversation would be. I guess it really all ties into a lack of what made bioware games good in the first place a lack of choice.

[Blueprotoss]

hadrain77 wrote...

The disk swapping, game was so linear why so much disk swapping.

It was worse in ME2 but you should ask Microsoft why there is two discs.

[Emm_a]

You guys should check out "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" It made me sort off forgive Bioware and hate EA even more. You can tell Hudson and his crew had a lot of pressure on themselves, which came from the deadline they got from EA in my opinion. How are you supposed to complete what is supposed to be the best game in the series, in a shorter span than the other two? For the people wondering, From Ashes WAS in the game, but it was scratched very late into development. Releasing it as day one DLC was the big mistake.

[T-Raks]

Let me say first, that I like ME3 (have finished it now four times), but there are still many flaws that could be bettered going forward in the next ME game. So here are my top seven points with room for improvement:

1. Changing the main question from "can we beat the Reapers at all" (it would've been great if some playthroughs would've ended with an epic fail while others would have had a victory with the least possible sacrifices as the result without having to choose) to "organics versus synthetics".

2. Ties into 1.: Every player/playthrough going through the same missions despite making very different decisions throughout the journey. I expected a game where different decisions lead to different journeys (would've been great for replay ability) with different endings happening and not being chosen.

3. Ties into 1. and 2.: The ending choices. There shouldn't have been choices at the end at all. You either are able to defeat them or you are not. Giving multiple choices devalues the accomplishment greatly, because if I have tons of options to defeat them, what makes them special? But this may have been avoided if destroy would have been the hardest goal to accomplish instead of the easiest, so maybe it's just that I think the choices are available in the wrong direction in the game as it is.

4. The Virmire Survivor becoming a totally different person than in ME1 and basically Ash/Kaidan doing exactly the same in ME3/becoming the same person. Devalues the replay value. Also them sitting on the Normandy without cutscene dialogue like every other squadmate got was pretty odd, because they should once again evolve into one of your best buddies/squaddies/whatever because of what you went through with them. Especially Ashley's characterization with the new botox face and her whiny attitude after being painted very tough and cute in ME1 was a disappointment.

5. Too much auto-dialogue. Shepard saying things one didn't wanted to say - though this problem was also present in ME1 and 2 because what you clicked on and what Shep said differed greatly even before ME3.

6. No ME2 suqadmates. In a perfect game world, Shepard would've been able to choose his team instead of getting 5/6 (you can choose to send the VS to Hackett) squadmates forced on you. Make it Shep choose 6 out of the 16 squaddies we had through 1 to 3 and the game would be so variable that people would replay it to eternity trying out different combinations. My first line-up would've been: Garrus, Grunt, Miranda, Javik, Samara and Liara I guess, maybe Mordin instead of Samara though he obviously is tied in too much into the Tuchanka arc to become a permanent squad member. But maybe he could have schooled me on the crucible...

Shep choosing assignments for his former squadmates not called up on the Normandy (for example sending Mordin to oversee the crucible project) and his decisions having an impact on the outcome would also have been great.

7. So far: too much Cerberus, too little fighting the Reapers. Unless Omega or another DLC clears up the erratic plan of Cerberus it is just annoying fighting them while the big threat looms over the galaxy. Though that might be the point. Or: it is not easy to tell many Reaper stories, missions, because you can't fight them with your hand guns etc. Though just as an idea: I would have loved itif we would've been able to conquer a Reaper, get control of it from within and then fight other Reapers with it. Could've been the most spectacular mission ever...
 

Modifié par T-Raks, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:08 .

[robertm2]

Emm_a wrote...

You guys should check out "The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3" It made me sort off forgive Bioware and hate EA even more. You can tell Hudson and his crew had a lot of pressure on themselves, which came from the deadline they got from EA in my opinion. How are you supposed to complete what is supposed to be the best game in the series, in a shorter span than the other two? For the people wondering, From Ashes WAS in the game, but it was scratched very late into development. Releasing it as day one DLC was the big mistake.

it is mostly ea's fault but at the same time they should have known better than to sell out to ea. they have a less than stellar repuation for destroying developers. and i doubt folks like hudson and walters even care since they are seeing the main benefits for the ea acquisition (lots and lots of money). if you want to feel bad for anyone feel bad for the people who spent every waking moment busting ass for the company only to be layed off because ea wanted to downsize the company. at the end of the day hudson and the other heads of the company are to blame for all of it anyone who works in the gaming industry knows how ea operates they just wanted to make more money even if it meant their loyal employees or the quality of the games they make take a hit.

[Hudathan]

I didn't want to actually see the EMS rating, it breaks immersion. It's much more effective for the player to make every decision big and small and simply hoping that they're doing the right thing. Dragon Age: Origins did this much better and it's my personal biggest issue with the system.

[I am disappoint]

Blueprotoss wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

The disk swapping, game was so linear why so much disk swapping.

It was worse in ME2 but you should ask Microsoft why there is two discs.

No we should ask Bioware, they don't compress much at all.

[robertm2]

I am disappoint wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

The disk swapping, game was so linear why so much disk swapping.

It was worse in ME2 but you should ask Microsoft why there is two discs.

No we should ask Bioware, they don't compress much at all.

for some reason they refuse to compress anything. if skyrim can fit on one disk with a smaller file size than one disk of mass effect. it should raise some flags.

[sg1fan75]

The ending, making the first 2 games meaningless, not having a heroic ending I can fell good about, plot holes, poor handling of love interests, having worked so hard to save the Geth/ helping joker and EDI fall in love then having to murder(killing friends in Shepard's own words) the Geth/EDI so you can do the right thing and kill the Reapers. ETC.............

[The Spamming Troll]

George Costanza wrote...

I don't think there's actually that much wrong with Mass Effect 3. A lot of it was really good. It's just that the bits that are bad are quite crippling to the whole.

Biggest issue for me is the Crucible. Shepard is on Earth as the Reapers turn up and start booting off. There's no hope. The galaxy is finished. He flies off to Mars. And ten minutes later Liara tells him she's just found a superweapon blueprint left by the Protheans. Great timing. In the 50,000 years since their time, we've just stumbled upon this as the Reapers arrive.

From there, the Crucible just becomes even more mind bogglingly stupid as a plot device. The allies have literally no idea what the thing does. They don't know how to turn the thing on. And they don't even know what one of the major components (the catalyst) is. And yet our leaders decide to pool untold amounts of resources into building it. Resources that could be spent helping worlds under attack. I find it literally incredible that any military leader since the dawn of time could think that building a device with untold properties on the suggestion that it could be a weapon capable of defeating the Reapers would choose to do that instead of fight for survival.

Yes, conventional victory blah blah impossible etc etc. That's why they built it. Nonsense, I say. We only have people telling us that conventional victory is impossible to prop up this ridiculous plot device. Conventional victory is never impossible. It's just increasing variations of unlikely. I concur, that the Reapers are a massive threat. But we've seen that they can be beaten. And with the right strategy, and a better chance than any other cycle because of the Prothean sabotage and a united galaxy behind us, it might just work. And by right strategy I mean some sort of military strategy that doesn't involve putting all our time and effort into building a gigantic, magical space maraca.

But from there it just gets worse. We spend the whole game getting resources for this thing. The plot is based around it. So its stupidity infects the rest of the game, too. And then we get to the ending. Wow.

So here, we have a machine, built by our allies. We've covered that nobody has a ****ing clue what the thing does. But we've got it built. Then we find out what it does. This machine is literally unbelievable in its design. If you walk over to the right, there's what appears to be some sort of tubing. And if you shoot this tubing then the Crucible kicks out red space lasers that outright kill synthetic intelligent life. Somehow these lasers can discriminate between synthetic life and dish washers and the like. I don't know how, you don't know how. It just does, right? Wunderbar.

Okay, some questions. Let's go back to the first cycle that built the Crucible. They designed it. They came up with the idea, the blueprints, everything. And they passed this down to future civilizations. When they were designing it, surely they knew what the Catalyst was. They came up with the idea for the machine. They knew what they needed to make it work. You don't design a car and then at the eleventh hour go, "Oh ****, how are we going to make this thing move without some like round things in all four corners to help it roll?". We know they were advanced because the machine is advanced. And so they must have known what they needed to make it fire. So why didn't they pass the information down? Why does no future civilization know what the Catalyst is?

If these designers could conceive of a weapon that could fire out red lasers capable of killing synthetic life and ending the war then unless the Reapers did a sterling job of keeping the Citadel under control, then I find it troubling to think they never managed to fire the weapon. Even if that did happen, the second cycle should have been able to. And why the **** didn't they design it with a button?

But not only does this amazing invention have the ability to pick out the clever robots and drop them down dead. They've also designed it to have some sort of conduit which a silly person could put his hands into, which would allow the person to upload their consciousness and take over the Reapers. Yeah. Just like that.

Same issues apply to Control, only with an addition. Control implies uploading the users consciousness to the Reaper horde and becoming their new collective intelligence. Essentially replacing the Catalyst. Woah woah woah. So not only do our intrepid Crucible designers know what the Catalyst is, but they know how to overwrite him and allow another to take over? Outstanding. Makes you wonder why none of this information was passed down along with the plans. Probably needed that. Could've helped.

And then a real doozy. Synthesis. Good gravy, Marie. So we've got a machine that can excrete two completely different forms of energy. It's also been designed to kick out a third. This type of energy can alter the fundamental building blocks of all life as we know it, to make it part synthetic. Yeah, I know. This race was so advanced, that they could actually alter the very stuff we're made out of at the atomic level. They were so advanced that they could make this happen with the only apparent side effect being green eyes. And they were so advanced that they could give synthetic life what they'd always wanted - to truly understand the way organics think.

This race was pretty advanced, by my reckoning. Wait. The Reapers knew this, right? And Synthesis is the "ideal solution" as stated by the Catalyst, is it not? So then dare I ask why the **** they didn't just let them do it? It's what they wanted. It was their ideal solution. Why didn't they just let them get on with it?

I could probably rant about how idiotic the idea of the Crucible causing Synthesis is for the remainder of the afternoon, but we haven't got all day so I'm going to wrap this up.

I'm going to leave you with this. The Reapers know of the Crucible, right? But the Illusive Man has to tell them what the Catalyst is, right? Now, what do the Reapers do? They make scary noises. They blow **** up. They're generally bad eggs. But what they also do, is they harvest the most advanced civilizations, and upload their minds into Reaper form. I wonder, then, how it is that the Reapers first of all don't know that the Citadel is the catalyst, and second, where the plans for the Crucible have been left for future civilizations so they could just destroy them and not have to worry next cycle.

Weird that.

The entire idea of the Crucible should have been nixed in the pre-production stage. It's idiotic. It's bad writing. Conceptually, it's laughable. There is literally not one good thing I can say about its inclusion in the story. In fact, whoever came up with it should go and have a long hard look in the mirror and decide whether they really want to be a writer. It's the sort of thing a seven year old would come up with at the last minute after they remembered they hadn't done their creative writing homework.

Appalling, bargain basement, rank amateur science fiction writing at its very worst.

yes, this times a bazillion. this is the reason why i think anyone who liked the ending, is a moron. its so foolish and stupid. also, its a perfect example of how current-bioware is current-bioware.

i wonder if its easier for the reapers to whipe out ALL advanced life across the galaxy, or find plans to the crucible hidden whereever plans to the crucible were hidden in each cycle. they shoulda hid people where they hid the plans.

[The Spamming Troll]

Blueprotoss wrote...

TK Dude wrote...

Troxa wrote...

The writing

Seriously! It's like the entire writing team had mental retardation during the development.

If thats the case then you would have to say this about ME1 and ME2 since most of the ME team members were present for all 3 games.

the part your missing is the ones important to the story left.

id take the ones that left over the ones that stayed. which is most likely the same reason id take ME1 over ME2 and ME3.

[Chardonney]

Hmm, I don't know... let me see now... oh, how about... the freaking ending! <_<

[Blueprotoss]

I am disappoint wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

hadrain77 wrote...

The disk swapping, game was so linear why so much disk swapping.

It was worse in ME2 but you should ask Microsoft why there is two discs.

No we should ask Bioware, they don't compress much at all.

Its up to Microsoft because the DVDs that the 360 use are outdated.