514 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

I bought the Collector's Edition. I got Javik for free.

So there.

And the game wouldn't be the same without that wonderful space troll.

[RavenEyry]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I bought the Collector's Edition. I got Javik for free.

So there.

So did I but then EA screwed over the shop I use so I never got it.

[Isichar]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I bought the Collector's Edition. I got Javik for free.

So there.

And the game wouldn't be the same without that wonderful space troll.

Not really "free" when your paying more for the collectors edition. If your like me then you would have done so anyways with or without day 1 dlc... but thats besides the point.

Modifié par Isichar, 05 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[robertthebard]

Isichar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I just love the "Javik is an essential character, and the game is totally different if you have him than if you don't" arguement.  It's false, of course, but it does make one sound important, until one realizes that I, for example, didn't have to buy Day 1 DLC to get him, he came with DDE game.  Since he was a DLC character, I treated him exactly like Zaeed and Kasumi in ME 2.  You know, you can go talk to them all you want, but they don't add anything, there's no cutscene dialog, no interaction with the crew, etc etc etc.  You run around their room, click on objects, get a line or two, and then move on.  So, I didn't expect any more from him than from them, and it was 6 games in before I figured out, hey, there's a lot more to him than just another squadmate thrown in for DLC purposes.  I played 5 full games with him standing alone in his room, hardly took him anywhere, because I liked having Garrus and Liara, or Tali, you know, people that I have been involved with over the course of the previous two games that weren't DLC, boring cannon fodder.  Yeah, he was absolutely essential to my game play, wasn't he...

Lol well thats one way to view it

What does Garrus add to the game other then some lines of dialogue that is so important he is needed in the game? Oh right he can be killed so I guess you could argue garrus is not essential in the main game too.

Garrus was with me from the start.  He helped me stop Saren/Sovereign, was even with me every time I finished ME 1, but one playthrough.  Is he essential, nope, no more than any of the squadmates from the previous installments, all of whom, save Liara in 2, can be killed off.  They weren't and they are known quantities, as opposed to Zaeed or Kasumi, who were just there to have bodies to throw at the Collector base.  Which is why I find the "essential character" arguement so amusing.

[Isichar]

robertthebard wrote...

Isichar wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

I just love the "Javik is an essential character, and the game is totally different if you have him than if you don't" arguement.  It's false, of course, but it does make one sound important, until one realizes that I, for example, didn't have to buy Day 1 DLC to get him, he came with DDE game.  Since he was a DLC character, I treated him exactly like Zaeed and Kasumi in ME 2.  You know, you can go talk to them all you want, but they don't add anything, there's no cutscene dialog, no interaction with the crew, etc etc etc.  You run around their room, click on objects, get a line or two, and then move on.  So, I didn't expect any more from him than from them, and it was 6 games in before I figured out, hey, there's a lot more to him than just another squadmate thrown in for DLC purposes.  I played 5 full games with him standing alone in his room, hardly took him anywhere, because I liked having Garrus and Liara, or Tali, you know, people that I have been involved with over the course of the previous two games that weren't DLC, boring cannon fodder.  Yeah, he was absolutely essential to my game play, wasn't he...

Lol well thats one way to view it

What does Garrus add to the game other then some lines of dialogue that is so important he is needed in the game? Oh right he can be killed so I guess you could argue garrus is not essential in the main game too.

Garrus was with me from the start.  He helped me stop Saren/Sovereign, was even with me every time I finished ME 1, but one playthrough.  Is he essential, nope, no more than any of the squadmates from the previous installments, all of whom, save Liara in 2, can be killed off.  They weren't and they are known quantities, as opposed to Zaeed or Kasumi, who were just there to have bodies to throw at the Collector base.  Which is why I find the "essential character" arguement so amusing.

His PoV and situation is pretty important for understanding many of the main themes of the story in the way (I believe) they are intended to be viewed. Not having Javics PoV can easily change your perspective on many important events in the game. Are these events needed to reach the ending? No. Are they important within a story and lore perspective, yes very much so.

All that is just my opinion of course. The value of his character may differ for you.

[RenegonSQ]

scyphozoa wrote...

People assume anything available on launch day should be included in the vanilla game for 60 dollars. Its pretty much just uninformed consumers choosing to assume the worst and then blame and criticize others for the assumptions they made.

Absolutely not.

Javik isn't just some add-on, he completely MAKES some of the missions on ME3. Perfect example being Thessia.

He is a main part of the game, not just an add-on like a Leviathan or a Lair Of The Shadow Broker. Therefore, it shouldn't have been DLC. But hey, I bought it anyway so whatever

[Doctoglethorpe]

It strips content from the completed game to artificially increase the starting price.  Mass Effect 3 was a $70 game, you can just buy a $60 version with less content or preorder for a discount (they didn't even do that this time did they? lawl).  If you don't want to think about it that way then don't, be happy in your little fantasy world, but thats what it is.  This isn't even a complaint, its just a simple fact.  And it bothers a lot of people.  Though I'm curious how much more bothered people would be if EA just charged what they really wanted for it up front instead of splitting the difference with such methods.   

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:28 .

[GiarcYekrub]

Isichar wrote...
His PoV and situation is pretty important for understanding many of the main themes of the story in the way (I believe) they are intended to be viewed. Not having Javics PoV can easily change your perspective on many important events in the game. Are these events needed to reach the ending? No. Are they important within a story and lore perspective, yes very much so.

All that is just my opinion of course. The value of his character may differ for you.

You sound like one of those people that believe that there can be a "wrong" final choice, or a "canon ending".

[robertthebard]

Isichar wrote...

His PoV and situation is pretty important for understanding many of the main themes of the story in the way (I believe) they are intended to be viewed. Not having Javics PoV can easily change your perspective on many important events in the game. Are these events needed to reach the ending? No. Are they important within a story and lore perspective, yes very much so.

All that is just my opinion of course. The value of his character may differ for you.

I didn't get any of that, and of course, YMMV.  Yes, there are some great comic relief moments:

Wrex:  I prefer my Salarian liver served raw.

Javik:  Yes, it was a delicacy in my time.

Salarian:  What are you really?

Javik:  A Prothean.  (there's more to it, but the exchange is funny)

However, he doesn't bring anything to the table that Tali doesn't bring, or Liara.  He's just another squadmate, with a cool rifle, which is really all I got out of him for the longest time.  I didn't even have his power unlocked until I did my second actual complete run of the game, 6 or 7th playthrough, most of mine are ultimate refusal, dying at the beam in London.  That is my canon ending.  He doesn't bring any real insight into defeating the Reapers, obviously he can't, the Protheans lost.  He has no knowledge of the Crucible, don't want to go there.  So he's just another squadmate in a game that went back to it's roots, small selection of squadmates, because we didn't have to have everyone involved in the final mission, again, don't want to go there either, off topic for here.  Having him or not didn't add or take anything vital to the game away.

[wirelesstkd]

RenegonSQ wrote...

Absolutely not.

Javik isn't just some add-on, he completely MAKES some of the missions on ME3. Perfect example being Thessia.

He is a main part of the game, not just an add-on like a Leviathan or a Lair Of The Shadow Broker. Therefore, it shouldn't have been DLC. But hey, I bought it anyway so whatever

I disagree. I brought Kaiden and Liara on that mission and there was nothing I was unclear on. In hindsight, though, I can imagine that bringing Javik must add a lot to it. I will take him when I get there on my second play through. 

And yes, Javik's DLC adds a lot more than Shadow Broker or Leviathon. But that's to Bioware's credit that they included so much in a DLC. That said, I still think Shadow Broker was a better DLC on the whole

[Isichar]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Isichar wrote...
His PoV and situation is pretty important for understanding many of the main themes of the story in the way (I believe) they are intended to be viewed. Not having Javics PoV can easily change your perspective on many important events in the game. Are these events needed to reach the ending? No. Are they important within a story and lore perspective, yes very much so.

All that is just my opinion of course. The value of his character may differ for you.

You sound like one of those people that believe that there can be a "wrong" final choice, or a "canon ending".

Wrong choice comes down to PoV's which is influenced by perspective and context. As for a canon ending absolutely not. I have endings I would certainly never pick regardless of my playthroughs (synthesis) but I dont consider that cannon.

[robertthebard]

RenegonSQ wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

People assume anything available on launch day should be included in the vanilla game for 60 dollars. Its pretty much just uninformed consumers choosing to assume the worst and then blame and criticize others for the assumptions they made.

Absolutely not.

Javik isn't just some add-on, he completely MAKES some of the missions on ME3. Perfect example being Thessia.

He is a main part of the game, not just an add-on like a Leviathan or a Lair Of The Shadow Broker. Therefore, it shouldn't have been DLC. But hey, I bought it anyway so whatever

You know, I run Thessia with Liara and Garrus.  I have never not come away believing that the Goddess in that temple was actually a Prothean.  I guess I'll have to bring him today, since I was getting ready to start that mission last night when I went to bed, and see what earth shattering differences he makes.  I sincerely hope this isn't some sensationalizing claim to garner support for "but he's essential", because I'll be very disappointed to find out that it is.

[Isichar]

robertthebard wrote...

Isichar wrote...

His PoV and situation is pretty important for understanding many of the main themes of the story in the way (I believe) they are intended to be viewed. Not having Javics PoV can easily change your perspective on many important events in the game. Are these events needed to reach the ending? No. Are they important within a story and lore perspective, yes very much so.

All that is just my opinion of course. The value of his character may differ for you.

I didn't get any of that, and of course, YMMV.  Yes, there are some great comic relief moments:

Wrex:  I prefer my Salarian liver served raw.

Javik:  Yes, it was a delicacy in my time.

Salarian:  What are you really?

Javik:  A Prothean.  (there's more to it, but the exchange is funny)

However, he doesn't bring anything to the table that Tali doesn't bring, or Liara.  He's just another squadmate, with a cool rifle, which is really all I got out of him for the longest time.  I didn't even have his power unlocked until I did my second actual complete run of the game, 6 or 7th playthrough, most of mine are ultimate refusal, dying at the beam in London.  That is my canon ending.  He doesn't bring any real insight into defeating the Reapers, obviously he can't, the Protheans lost.  He has no knowledge of the Crucible, don't want to go there.  So he's just another squadmate in a game that went back to it's roots, small selection of squadmates, because we didn't have to have everyone involved in the final mission, again, don't want to go there either, off topic for here.  Having him or not didn't add or take anything vital to the game away.

He is much more relevant to the plot then you seem willing to admit. And even if you may disagree I still think he added a lot of perspective (which is one of the few positive things about the whole DLC experience I can say) to the main story, much more then another other squadmate I used.

[RenegonSQ]

robertthebard wrote...

RenegonSQ wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

People assume anything available on launch day should be included in the vanilla game for 60 dollars. Its pretty much just uninformed consumers choosing to assume the worst and then blame and criticize others for the assumptions they made.

Absolutely not.

Javik isn't just some add-on, he completely MAKES some of the missions on ME3. Perfect example being Thessia.

He is a main part of the game, not just an add-on like a Leviathan or a Lair Of The Shadow Broker. Therefore, it shouldn't have been DLC. But hey, I bought it anyway so whatever

You know, I run Thessia with Liara and Garrus.  I have never not come away believing that the Goddess in that temple was actually a Prothean.  I guess I'll have to bring him today, since I was getting ready to start that mission last night when I went to bed, and see what earth shattering differences he makes.  I sincerely hope this isn't some sensationalizing claim to garner support for "but he's essential", because I'll be very disappointed to find out that it is.

If your not open to believing that the Goddess was Prothean, then you shouldn't bring Javik.

Seeing and listening to Liara lose sense of what she has always known and what she was brought up to believe in is what makes Javik so essiential to that mission in my opinion. But if your not willing to accept what Javik is saying, then he's just going to ****** you off and annoy you.

And to the other member who quoted me, I brought along James on my 3rd playthrough, and the last part of that mission was so dull in comparison to being Javik, that I didn't even see the point in playing it. But maybe thats just me

[GiarcYekrub]

There is a comedy moment with Javik and Liara on Thesia that I thought was class

[xsdob]

Because people think their molehills are mountains and like to proclaim their problems from atop it.

You want ripping off your customers? Try buying a copy of a game, only to find out a few months later that in order to get new characters and a game mode, you don't need to buy dlc. You need to buy a new version of the game, an "ultimate" edition cause the Japanese don't ****ing do dlc cause making drop another 50 bucks is a okay with them! And guess what? Your copy of the game? Worthless! We ain't even going to support it or make the things this other version has available to you unless you buy it.

Day one dlc can cry me a ****ing river, I'll laugh in their face and drink their tears.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

xsdob wrote...

Because people think their molehills are mountains and like to proclaim their problems from atop it.

You want ripping off your customers? Try buying a copy of a game, only to find out a few months later that in order to get new characters and a game mode, you don't need to buy dlc. You need to buy a new version of the game, an "ultimate" edition cause the Japanese don't ****ing do dlc cause making drop another 50 bucks is a okay with them! And guess what? Your copy of the game? Worthless! We ain't even going to support it or make the things this other version has available to you unless you buy it.

Day one dlc can cry me a ****ing river, I'll laugh in their face and drink their tears.

So because Capcom are worse, Day-1 DLC is perfectly okay. Ah yes, I love that way of thinking. That's the reason why we have companies like EA screwing their customers in every way they can get away with.

[wirelesstkd]

I don't know what you get in Thessia if you have anyone else, but with Kaiden and Liara it's VERY clear that the Protheans were the early Asari gods. It's been month since I played that part of single player, but I remember Kaiden saying of the god in the picture or statue, "that looks an awful lot like a Prothean," and then Liara saying something like, "okay, I get the picture," kind of annoyed that Kaiden was really driving the point home.

Now, maybe that interaction with those two exists because they had both met a Prothean earlier, I don't know. But that was my experience there without Javik.

[xsdob]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Because people think their molehills are mountains and like to proclaim their problems from atop it.

You want ripping off your customers? Try buying a copy of a game, only to find out a few months later that in order to get new characters and a game mode, you don't need to buy dlc. You need to buy a new version of the game, an "ultimate" edition cause the Japanese don't ****ing do dlc cause making drop another 50 bucks is a okay with them! And guess what? Your copy of the game? Worthless! We ain't even going to support it or make the things this other version has available to you unless you buy it.

Day one dlc can cry me a ****ing river, I'll laugh in their face and drink their tears.

So because Capcom are worse, Day-1 DLC is perfectly okay. Ah yes, I love that way of thinking. That's the reason why we have companies like EA screwing their customers in every way they can get away with.

I'm saying that to proclaim it as "The worst thing to do to customers" is a statement born on ignorance and a lack of proper research.

Javik was, and this is pretty much consensused, Not an important part of the story. Whether you think he should have been an important part of the story, that's another debate all together.

Javik was like zaeed, he had a fun mission and some great interaction and dialouge parts, but nothing that was gravitativly important to the plot.

If you think he should have been because he was a prothean, than make a thread about "Javik should have been a much more important part of the story". But don't muddle the issue of day 1 dlc's with could have's and should have's, use actual facts.

The EC containted all the dialouge for leviathan, should leviathan have been free with the EC?

The point with this is to counter the argument I know will be used, the "It was on the disc" argument. No, he wasn't, the foundations were there, but not the actual character. This wasn't, again, like what capcom did, where the content in it's entierty was on a disc, and required you purchase a key to unlock the data. They needed to work on javik longer, and they ran out of time, so they saved what they had finished of him on the disc and started finishing up the rest of his dlc and made it avaliable to everyone.

[Omega2079]

darkway1 wrote...

Stop kidding yourself and wake up.....Bioware has given a character away in every game,to encourage sales......until mass3 came along......then they charge for it.

They were never free. They were bundled with the game. If you bought a second hand game, you had to buy a pass to get the dlc.

[Omega2079]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Because people think their molehills are mountains and like to proclaim their problems from atop it.

You want ripping off your customers? Try buying a copy of a game, only to find out a few months later that in order to get new characters and a game mode, you don't need to buy dlc. You need to buy a new version of the game, an "ultimate" edition cause the Japanese don't ****ing do dlc cause making drop another 50 bucks is a okay with them! And guess what? Your copy of the game? Worthless! We ain't even going to support it or make the things this other version has available to you unless you buy it.

Day one dlc can cry me a ****ing river, I'll laugh in their face and drink their tears.

So because Capcom are worse, Day-1 DLC is perfectly okay. Ah yes, I love that way of thinking. That's the reason why we have companies like EA screwing their customers in every way they can get away with.

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

www.youtube.com/watch


Ill just leave this here.

[HiddenInWar]

Isichar wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Personally my take is Diana Allers was originally to be DLC, she has that DLC feel to her, but was probally added to the main game as compensation for loosing Javik when it became clear that time/budget constraints forced him out

Oh lucky us:mellow:

Since Diana Allers was not exactly... the most well liked character in the game how do you think they could have sold her off as DLC? I know this is offtopic but still. That DLC (no offense to Chobot) would have tanked hard if they tried to charge you to get her character.

[Chris Brock]

If it comes with every new copy nothing
If you have to pay extra well then I ignore it

Modifié par Chris Brock, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:14 .