514 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I bought the Collector's Edition. I got Javik for free.

So there.

And the game wouldn't be the same without that wonderful space troll.

Would have been just fine without him, ME would have had fewer airlock jokes but that's about it.

[Omega2079]

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

www.youtube.com/watch


Ill just leave this here.

They're not taking advantage of anyone. If they were, that would mean their customers are incapable of making decisions for themselves. And that would mean they would need someone else to decide if they get to play the game. Do you really want to be babied like that?

I know I'm capable of making purchase decisions for myself. I've battlefield 3 and have put a lot of time into it. I like the game a lot, but I haven't bought a single unlock for it. I don't plan to either.

If that's really a problem -so much so that you can't decide for yourself- you should ask your parents/guardians first.

Modifié par Omega2079, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:24 .

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

www.youtube.com/watch


Ill just leave this here.

They're not taking advantage of anyone. If they were, that would mean their customers are incapable of making decision for themselves. And that would mean they would need someone else to decide if they get to play the game. Do you really want to be babied like that?

I know I'm capable of making purchase decisions for myself. I've battlefield 3 and have put a lot of time into it. I like the game a lot, but I haven't bought a single unlock for it. I don't plan to either.

If that's really a problem -so much so that you can't decide for yourself- you should ask your parents/guardians first.

Ok. however you wanna rationalize it.

[Podge 90]

If you don't know what's wrong with it, you're part of the problem.

[Omega2079]

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

www.youtube.com/watch


Ill just leave this here.

They're not taking advantage of anyone. If they were, that would mean their customers are incapable of making decision for themselves. And that would mean they would need someone else to decide if they get to play the game. Do you really want to be babied like that?

I know I'm capable of making purchase decisions for myself. I've battlefield 3 and have put a lot of time into it. I like the game a lot, but I haven't bought a single unlock for it. I don't plan to either.

If that's really a problem -so much so that you can't decide for yourself- you should ask your parents/guardians first.

Ok. however you wanna rationalize it.

What, normal decisions adults make eveyday?

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Modifié par Omega2079, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

How is EA screwing their customers? They're upfront with everything I see available for purchase from them.

www.youtube.com/watch


Ill just leave this here.

They're not taking advantage of anyone. If they were, that would mean their customers are incapable of making decision for themselves. And that would mean they would need someone else to decide if they get to play the game. Do you really want to be babied like that?

I know I'm capable of making purchase decisions for myself. I've battlefield 3 and have put a lot of time into it. I like the game a lot, but I haven't bought a single unlock for it. I don't plan to either.

If that's really a problem -so much so that you can't decide for yourself- you should ask your parents/guardians first.

Ok. however you wanna rationalize it.

What, normal decisions adults make eveyday?

Yeah, sure

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Pretty much describes EA's fanbase, drones incapable of thinking for themselves. Whats good for the company is good for them or so they believe.

Im just joking... although not entirely

Modifié par Isichar, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:33 .

[Omega2079]

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Pretty much describes EA's fanbase, drones incapable of thinking for themselves. Whats good for the company is good for them or so they believe.

Im just joking... although not entirely

Mass Effect 3, rated AO for Adults Only!

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Pretty much describes EA's fanbase, drones incapable of thinking for themselves. Whats good for the company is good for them or so they believe.

Im just joking... although not entirely

Mass Effect 3, rated AO for Adults Only!

Yes you certainly seem to be pushing the adult thing. You see as someone who pays bills and earns my own cash to spend I have a little thing called an opinion on the things my cash goes towards. Its just one of those great perks about been a consumer in the real world.

[Omega2079]

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Pretty much describes EA's fanbase, drones incapable of thinking for themselves. Whats good for the company is good for them or so they believe.

Im just joking... although not entirely

Mass Effect 3, rated AO for Adults Only!

Yes you certainly seem to be pushing the adult thing. You see as someone who pays bills and earns my own cash to spend I have a little thing called an opinion on the things my cash goes towards. Its just one of those great perks about been a consumer in the real world.

So you're in favor of consumers making their own decisions. I'm happy to see I've convinced you.

[robertthebard]

RenegonSQ wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

RenegonSQ wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

People assume anything available on launch day should be included in the vanilla game for 60 dollars. Its pretty much just uninformed consumers choosing to assume the worst and then blame and criticize others for the assumptions they made.

Absolutely not.

Javik isn't just some add-on, he completely MAKES some of the missions on ME3. Perfect example being Thessia.

He is a main part of the game, not just an add-on like a Leviathan or a Lair Of The Shadow Broker. Therefore, it shouldn't have been DLC. But hey, I bought it anyway so whatever

You know, I run Thessia with Liara and Garrus.  I have never not come away believing that the Goddess in that temple was actually a Prothean.  I guess I'll have to bring him today, since I was getting ready to start that mission last night when I went to bed, and see what earth shattering differences he makes.  I sincerely hope this isn't some sensationalizing claim to garner support for "but he's essential", because I'll be very disappointed to find out that it is.

If your not open to believing that the Goddess was Prothean, then you shouldn't bring Javik.

Seeing and listening to Liara lose sense of what she has always known and what she was brought up to believe in is what makes Javik so essiential to that mission in my opinion. But if your not willing to accept what Javik is saying, then he's just going to ****** you off and annoy you.

And to the other member who quoted me, I brought along James on my 3rd playthrough, and the last part of that mission was so dull in comparison to being Javik, that I didn't even see the point in playing it. But maybe thats just me

Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires you to read responses.  So I'll highlight that passage again so you can reread it to see what you missed.

I did what I said I would do, and frankly, I was disappointed.  I didn't learn anything that I didn't learn having Garrus, except that, again, Javik can read through touch, but hey, I already knew that.

[HiddenInWar]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I bought the Collector's Edition. I got Javik for free.

So there.

And the game wouldn't be the same without that wonderful space troll.

 

Bonus: Airlock for Primitives DLC

[Ninja Stan]

Isichar wrote...

But what about when it actually is part of the content you purchased and its locked until you pay? If I go into a store and buy a ME3 disk should I not be entitled to the content on that disk? Even if I say I want to support the developers more it feels like content is purposely been locked out in the interest of making more money which feels really scabby towards the consumer.

Believe it or not, your beliefs and wants are entirely irrelevant when it comes to what a company is offering. In this example, BioWare (EA, actually) is offering something for sale. This is the license to play the base ME3 game on the disc or via digital download. The base ME3 game does not include the Javik content regardless of where thtat content resides. When you pay for the game (ie. purchase a license to play the game), you are paying to play the base ME3 game, no more, no less.

If you pre-ordered, the Javik content is made available as part of your game package via a download code, which integrates the full Javik content with the hooks already present on disc, which were put there because Javik was planned as DLC content to be added later[/url].

Again, at no time are your thoughts, wishes, or preferences consulted because you are making a choice to purchase a packaged product. You are not ordering from an a la carte menu[/i[. This is purely a prix fixe menu. No matter what you think should be in the package you pay for, there is no mechanism by which to access it. You have not paid for it, it was not offered to you as part of that package, and the method to access that content has been clearly laid out for you.

It seems disagreeable to you, and that's fine. Not everyone is going to enjoy having extra content, or paying for extra content. But in this sort of situation, the developer is not designing a game for you. The developer is designing a game [i]to be sold a certain way. Whether you like it or not, your power to choose has never been restricted, eliminated, or in any way, disrespected.

I hope that helps.

[drayfish]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Believe it or not, your beliefs and wants are entirely irrelevant when it comes to what a company is offering. In this example, BioWare (EA, actually) is offering something for sale. This is the license to play the base ME3 game on the disc or via digital download. The base ME3 game does not include the Javik content regardless of where thtat content resides. When you pay for the game (ie. purchase a license to play the game), you are paying to play the base ME3 game, no more, no less.

If you pre-ordered, the Javik content is made available as part of your game package via a download code, which integrates the full Javik content with the hooks already present on disc, which were put there because Javik was planned as DLC content to be added later[/url].

Again, at no time are your thoughts, wishes, or preferences consulted because you are making a choice to purchase a packaged product. You are not ordering from an a la carte menu[/i[. This is purely a prix fixe menu. No matter what you think should be in the package you pay for, there is no mechanism by which to access it. You have not paid for it, it was not offered to you as part of that package, and the method to access that content has been clearly laid out for you.

It seems disagreeable to you, and that's fine. Not everyone is going to enjoy having extra content, or paying for extra content. But in this sort of situation, the developer is not designing a game for you. The developer is designing a game to be sold a certain way. Whether you like it or not, your power to choose has never been restricted, eliminated, or in any way, disrespected.

I hope that helps.

While of course the company is well within its legal rights to sell their product in whatever manner they choose - and the consumer's right to then purchase or not as they choose - I think it is utterly disingenuous of you to label the materials we are seeing released here as 'extra' content in any traditional spirit of the term.

Your developers have explicitly stated that they would never withhold pertinent narrative central dlc as paid content - indeed, Casey Hudson expressly reassured consumers that all Reaper-central narrative would be included in-game, that Bioware would never want to withhold such information from its fans in such a manner ( - see the 3:30 min mark).

And yet the first two paid dlcs released are a Prothean (a species central to the Reaper cycle that has been the narrative throughline of all three games and one that offers a singular window into the game's universe), and 'Leviathan' - the ultimate (and thus far only) explanation for the origin and purpose of the Reapers (the central driving mystery of the series). 

These are not peripheral, secondary adventures in a familiar world - these dlcs speak to the two central mysteries of the game, and were expressly designed to feed into its primary narrative.  Withholding them behind a secondary purchase (while well within your [i]rights, as you state), is a knowing attempt to bolster sales by compelling fans to pay extra for the entire story,  and a direct contradiction of your stated business practice (at least according to the director of the product).

Again: nothing illegal about this, but it is no surprise that fans might question such dealings, and find Bioware's contradictory responses to the practice unsettling.

[simonrana]

drayfish wrote...
While of course the company is well within its legal rights to sell their product in whatever manner they choose - and the consumer's right to then purchase or not as they choose - I think it is utterly disingenuous of you to label the materials we are seeing released here as 'extra' content in any traditional spirit of the term.

Your developers have explicitly stated that they would never withhold pertinent narrative central dlc as paid content - indeed, Casey Hudson expressly reassured consumers that all Reaper-central narrative would be included in-game, that Bioware would never want to withhold such information from its fans in such a manner ( - see the 3:30 min mark).

And yet the first two paid dlcs released are a Prothean (a species central to the Reaper cycle that has been the narrative throughline of all three games and one that offers a singular window into the game's universe), and 'Leviathan' - the ultimate (and thus far only) explanation for the origin and purpose of the Reapers (the central driving mystery of the series). 

These are not peripheral, secondary adventures in a familiar world - these dlcs speak to the two central mysteries of the game, and were expressly designed to feed into its primary narrative.  Withholding them behind a secondary purchase (while well within your rights, as you state), is a knowing attempt to bolster sales by compelling fans to pay extra for the entire story,  and a direct contradiction of your stated business practice (at least according to the director of the product).

Again: nothing illegal about this, but it is no surprise that fans might question such dealings, and find Bioware's contradictory responses to the practice unsettling.

Well said Drayfish.

[I am Sovereign]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Believe it or not, your beliefs and wants are entirely irrelevant when it comes to what a company is offering. In this example, BioWare (EA, actually) is offering something for sale. This is the license to play the base ME3 game on the disc or via digital download. The base ME3 game does not include the Javik content regardless of where thtat content resides. When you pay for the game (ie. purchase a license to play the game), you are paying to play the base ME3 game, no more, no less.

If you pre-ordered, the Javik content is made available as part of your game package via a download code, which integrates the full Javik content with the hooks already present on disc, which were put there because Javik was planned as DLC content to be added later[/url].

Again, at no time are your thoughts, wishes, or preferences consulted because you are making a choice to purchase a packaged product. You are not ordering from an a la carte menu[/i[. This is purely a prix fixe menu. No matter what you think should be in the package you pay for, there is no mechanism by which to access it. You have not paid for it, it was not offered to you as part of that package, and the method to access that content has been clearly laid out for you.

It seems disagreeable to you, and that's fine. Not everyone is going to enjoy having extra content, or paying for extra content. But in this sort of situation, the developer is not designing a game for you. The developer is designing a game [i]to be sold a certain way. Whether you like it or not, your power to choose has never been restricted, eliminated, or in any way, disrespected.

I hope that helps.

You could have easily just put the Javik content in the final product, you made it before release. Day 1 dlc is an underhanded practice, not technically illegal, but is considered "nickle and diming" by the majority of the gaming community. You lost a LOT of goodwill and respect from your fanbase for that.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

It bothers me because:

1. The Prothean race was all over the place during ME1 and even 2, by which I mean it was an important part of the story. The last living Prothean should not be DLC (even though they completely marginalized and dumbed down the Protheans later.)

- This is a cheap shot. They've taken advantage of their fans, knowing they wouldn't pass up the chance to meet a living Prothean.

2. It was finished alongside the game. How does additional content come out the same day as the game? I've never seen anyone do that before. Again, cheap shot.

 

Didn't Fable 3 do that?

So did Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 2.

[drayfish]

alum2 wrote...

My opinion is that first and foremost Bioware/EA is operated as a business. If they produce goods or services that people want/need/desire, they can expect to be sucessful. There is an obvious gap in the development time of a product like mass effect compared to other games released recently. The production of mass effect appears as a product that would have been a much more expensive undertaking. Yet, the release price of mass effect is the same as the other games. I would imagine it was all a business decision to recoup costs. The bottom line is if Bioware released Mass Effect 4 today, would you purchase it? If the answer is still yes, I would argue Bioware made the right business decision.

My apologies, but I'm not sure that I understand the statement here - so forgive me if I am misrepresenting it.  Are you saying that as long as future products have not been tarnished by the name of the previous, as long as they keep selling, then the business model will prove the valid complaints from the invalid?

[Icinix]

Day 1 DLC? Nothing.

Disc locked content that is most definitely finished prior to going gold that you need to pay extra to have unlocked - Everything.

[Omega2079]

drayfish wrote...


While of course the company is well within its legal rights to sell their product in whatever manner they choose - and the consumer's right to then purchase or not as they choose - I think it is utterly disingenuous of you to label the materials we are seeing released here as 'extra' content in any traditional spirit of the term.

Your developers have explicitly stated that they would never withhold pertinent narrative central dlc as paid content - indeed, Casey Hudson expressly reassured consumers that all Reaper-central narrative would be included in-game, that Bioware would never want to withhold such information from its fans in such a manner ( - see the 3:30 min mark).

And yet the first two paid dlcs released are a Prothean (a species central to the Reaper cycle that has been the narrative throughline of all three games and one that offers a singular window into the game's universe), and 'Leviathan' - the ultimate (and thus far only) explanation for the origin and purpose of the Reapers (the central driving mystery of the series). 

These are not peripheral, secondary adventures in a familiar world - these dlcs speak to the two central mysteries of the game, and were expressly designed to feed into its primary narrative.  Withholding them behind a secondary purchase (while well within your rights, as you state), is a knowing attempt to bolster sales by compelling fans to pay extra for the entire story,  and a direct contradiction of your stated business practice (at least according to the director of the product).

Again: nothing illegal about this, but it is no surprise that fans might question such dealings, and find Bioware's contradictory responses to the practice unsettling.

You're into a subjective area, but I wouldn't call the Javik dlc pertinent.  Having gone through the game the first time without it and the second time with it, I found it didn't reveal anything that changed my views on the game in any significant way. It's good back story, but beyond personal details it just confirmed some fairly obvious things about protheans.

Returning a profit is the whole point of making the game and the dlc. All dlc does for you in the end is to give you the option to not pay for a part of the game if you happen to not want it.

Modifié par Omega2079, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:50 .

[legion999]

The idea that Developers are taking out content and selling it separately to make more money is one that I dislike. It doesn't give players new content it simply makes them pay more for content they should have got in the game.

Case in point would be Capcom's recent sheninigans.

[AlanC9]

I am Sovereign wrote...
You could have easily just put the Javik content in the final product, you made it before release. Day 1 dlc is an underhanded practice, not technically illegal, but is considered "nickle and diming" by the majority of the gaming community. You lost a LOT of goodwill and respect from your fanbase for that.

Sure. And then raise the price of the game by.... $5? (Figuring that multiples of 5 are the way they're going to go)

There isn't any way you get the same game without the same investment, and you don't get the same investment if you're projecting less revenue.