514 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

alum2 wrote...
I agree, in my opinion, neither DLC contained materrial that was required/necessary to play and enjoy the game. They did contain interesting information and that ride in the Atlas was pretty wild!  But if the DLC's did not contain information that added something to the game, I do not think people would buy them.  I personally waited to purchase the second DLC until my friends gave me feedback on their experience.

That's pretty much how I felt. What, Bio's only supposed to make bad, pointless DLCs?

[Omega2079]

legion999 wrote...

...it simply makes them pay more for content they should have got in the game.

How do you determine what should be in a game?

[Blueprotoss]

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

Same here even when DLC is usually optional and ME3 is far from the 1st game to do Day 1 DLC.

[drayfish]

Omega2079 wrote...

drayfish wrote...


While of course the company is well within its legal rights to sell their product in whatever manner they choose - and the consumer's right to then purchase or not as they choose - I think it is utterly disingenuous of you to label the materials we are seeing released here as 'extra' content in any traditional spirit of the term.

Your developers have explicitly stated that they would never withhold pertinent narrative central dlc as paid content - indeed, Casey Hudson expressly reassured consumers that all Reaper-central narrative would be included in-game, that Bioware would never want to withhold such information from its fans in such a manner ( - see the 3:30 min mark).

And yet the first two paid dlcs released are a Prothean (a species central to the Reaper cycle that has been the narrative throughline of all three games and one that offers a singular window into the game's universe), and 'Leviathan' - the ultimate (and thus far only) explanation for the origin and purpose of the Reapers (the central driving mystery of the series). 

These are not peripheral, secondary adventures in a familiar world - these dlcs speak to the two central mysteries of the game, and were expressly designed to feed into its primary narrative.  Withholding them behind a secondary purchase (while well within your rights, as you state), is a knowing attempt to bolster sales by compelling fans to pay extra for the entire story,  and a direct contradiction of your stated business practice (at least according to the director of the product).

Again: nothing illegal about this, but it is no surprise that fans might question such dealings, and find Bioware's contradictory responses to the practice unsettling.

You're into a subjective area, but I wouldn't call the Javik dlc pertinent.  Having gone through the game the first time without it and the second time with it, I found it didn't reveal anything that changed my views on the game in any significant way. It's good back story, but beyond personal details it just confirmed some fairly obvious things about protheans.

Returning a profit is the whole point of making the game and the dlc. All dlc does for you in the end is to give you the option to not pay for a part of the game if you happen to not want it.

In principle I agree - my point was more that there is a hypocrisy in Bioware's downplaying  the fan's right to feel slighted when the materials that they are releasing now is so clearly part of the central mythology of the game. It may not be narrative crucial (although I would argue 'Levithan' probably is for the story they appear to be trying to tell), but it is central to the lore.  The Prothean? The last survivor of the race that your character has been seeking to understand across three narratives?  (And a character that is – I would argue – central to Liara's character arc.)

Again, they have every right to sell this material as they choose, I just think it is rather disingenuous to suggest that fans have no right to be surprised - and a little shocked - that their direct promises of lore-central narrative not being released separate to the vanilla game have been contradicted.

[Omega2079]

drayfish wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

drayfish wrote...


While of course the company is well within its legal rights to sell their product in whatever manner they choose - and the consumer's right to then purchase or not as they choose - I think it is utterly disingenuous of you to label the materials we are seeing released here as 'extra' content in any traditional spirit of the term.

Your developers have explicitly stated that they would never withhold pertinent narrative central dlc as paid content - indeed, Casey Hudson expressly reassured consumers that all Reaper-central narrative would be included in-game, that Bioware would never want to withhold such information from its fans in such a manner ( - see the 3:30 min mark).

And yet the first two paid dlcs released are a Prothean (a species central to the Reaper cycle that has been the narrative throughline of all three games and one that offers a singular window into the game's universe), and 'Leviathan' - the ultimate (and thus far only) explanation for the origin and purpose of the Reapers (the central driving mystery of the series). 

These are not peripheral, secondary adventures in a familiar world - these dlcs speak to the two central mysteries of the game, and were expressly designed to feed into its primary narrative.  Withholding them behind a secondary purchase (while well within your rights, as you state), is a knowing attempt to bolster sales by compelling fans to pay extra for the entire story,  and a direct contradiction of your stated business practice (at least according to the director of the product).

Again: nothing illegal about this, but it is no surprise that fans might question such dealings, and find Bioware's contradictory responses to the practice unsettling.

You're into a subjective area, but I wouldn't call the Javik dlc pertinent.  Having gone through the game the first time without it and the second time with it, I found it didn't reveal anything that changed my views on the game in any significant way. It's good back story, but beyond personal details it just confirmed some fairly obvious things about protheans.

Returning a profit is the whole point of making the game and the dlc. All dlc does for you in the end is to give you the option to not pay for a part of the game if you happen to not want it.

In principle I agree - my point was more that there is a hypocrisy in Bioware's downplaying  the fan's right to feel slighted when the materials that they are releasing now is so clearly part of the central mythology of the game. It may not be narrative crucial (although I would argue 'Levithan' probably is for the story they appear to be trying to tell), but it is central to the lore.  The Prothean? The last survivor of the race that your character has been seeking to understand across three narratives?  (And a character that is – I would argue – central to Liara's character arc.)

Again, they have every right to sell this material as they choose, I just think it is rather disingenuous to suggest that fans have no right to be surprised - and a little shocked - that their direct promises of lore-central narrative not being released separate to the vanilla game have been contradicted.

When did they talk of rights?

[Brakensiek]

Huge wall of text above me of someone who felt it was absolutely necessary to quote a post and only reply with no more than six words. I swear.

Also I cannot defend Day-One DLCs. If you have content that is essentially ready to be released along with the game on day one then why should we have to pay for it? It is a very poor excuse to grab as much money as they can from their customers while giving them the middle finger, especially when that content can be crucial to the lore of the entire trilogy. Greed is ruining everything.

Modifié par Brakensiek, 08 septembre 2012 - 04:56 .

[Hatchetman77]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.

Let's not even get into the shady practice of incouraging consumers to not making informed decisions on purchasing products from their company.  I wait for a game to be released and get information from reviewers I trust before I buy a game and I shouldn't be punished for being a responsable consumer.

[HiddenInWar]

Brakensiek wrote...

Huge wall of text above me of someone who felt it was absolutely necessary to quote a post and only reply with no more than six words. I swear.

Also I cannot defend Day-One DLCs. If you have content that is essentially ready to be released along with the game on day one then why should we have to pay for it? It is a very poor excuse to grab as much money as they can from their customers while giving them the middle finger, especially when that content can be crucial to the lore of the entire trilogy. Greed is ruining everything.

 

How are they being greedy? If bioware finds that From Ashes should be optional and if the consumer finds the DLC to be worth it or not then to each their own. 

[Brakensiek]

Brakensiek wrote...

If you have content that is essentially ready to be released along with the game on day one then why should we have to pay for it? It is a very poor excuse to grab as much money as they can from their customers while giving them the middle finger, especially when that content can be crucial to the lore of the entire trilogy. 

 

Modifié par Brakensiek, 08 septembre 2012 - 06:38 .

[Tazzmission]

i dont have an issue with it but whatever the dlc is thats when i decide if i buy it or not

i mean if its a new charachter than hell yea id buy it day 1. same with additional story content

if its armor or weapons i really dont care for those at all

[drayfish]

Omega2079 wrote...

When did they talk of rights?

(Sorry, I cannot tell if you are being serious or not, so I'll answer as if you're not joking.)

Ninja Stan (in the post I was responding to) spoke of Bioware's (and EA's) rights as developers to release material as they see fit, and the consumer's rights to therefore purchase those product or not as they see fit.

I was disagreeing with neither point, merely observing the contradiction in their promises about the subject matter of that content in the lead up to the games release. 

[Tazzmission]

drayfish wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

When did they talk of rights?

(Sorry, I cannot tell if you are being serious or not, so I'll answer as if you're not joking.)

Ninja Stan (in the post I was responding to) spoke of Bioware's (and EA's) rights as developers to release material as they see fit, and the consumer's rights to therefore purchase those product or not as they see fit.

I was disagreeing with neither point, merely observing the contradiction in their promises about the subject matter of that content in the lead up to the games release. 

well to be fair you cant really tell a buisness what they can or cant do regarding there properties man

the only way you can show them your against it is basicly dont buy the day one dlc and issue solved

and im sorry but the whole customer rights thing is a joke imo because there are people who would use it for the most stupid reasons.

[drayfish]

Tazzmission wrote...

well to be fair you cant really tell a buisness what they can or cant do regarding there properties man

the only way you can show them your against it is basicly dont buy the day one dlc and issue solved

and im sorry but the whole customer rights thing is a joke imo because there are people who would use it for the most stupid reasons.

I'm sorry to say I don't quite follow your point - but again I'm not telling them how to do their job.  At no point - in any of my comments - have I said that they don't have the right to do precisely what Ninja Stan suggested.  My observation was explaining why fans might feel slighted at being expressly promised that no narrative-central DLC about the Reapers would be released outside of the primary game - only to find that the very first two paid DLCs were precisely this.

Again - they are free to do that, but it sends a contradictory message that I would imagine would not be appreciated by consumers.

[sUiCiDeKiNgS13]

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

I just want BW to tell me flat out why Zaeed was free w/ purchase, but Javik had to be paid for. If they can give me a straight answer without speaking in double sentences, I will gladly listen.

[Ninja Stan]

I'm reasonably certain that BioWare would never be able to give you an answer that you would accept, sUiCiDeKiNgS13, since it seems "because that's what they decided to do" won't do for an answer.

[I am disappoint]

@ sUiCiDeKiNgS13 :It was probably because the Cerberus network didn't generate them enough cash.

Modifié par I am disappoint, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:28 .

[Chaotic-Fusion]

The Cerberus network was an incentive to buy the game new, and a way to get some money from those who bought it used. With ME3 someone at Bioware/EA must have realised that they could generate more profits by charging everyone for new content, even those who had already paid full price. Greed is always the answer for everything EA does.

[I am disappoint]

Everyone who bought new ME2 got the DLC.
By Bioware doing it this way they encouraged more people to buy the limited edition or collectors edition earning them more money.
This caused people who brought the standard edition to miss out on important story DLC needed to experience the Mass effect Universe fully, naturally loads of fans bought it because they wanted it for the story.

Cerberus Network was less relevant and not as interesting so even if people did buy second hand they probably would not have bought Cerberus Network too.

Bioware did it this way to earn more money.

Modifié par I am disappoint, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:38 .

[SpamBot2000]

They buy the channels on TV
And visit every place they see
And ruin it instantly
Greedy awful people

They always clap on the wrong beat
They're wearin loafers on their feet
Greedy awful people

[drayfish]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I'm reasonably certain that BioWare would never be able to give you an answer that you would accept, sUiCiDeKiNgS13, since it seems "because that's what they decided to do" won't do for an answer.

I believe the second half of that response (the part you are leaving out) is because it is more profitable to do so, yes?

It is okay to say that: Bioware (and EA) is a business in the interests of making money, and such practices are no surprise.

I suspect that the issue that is occuring here in the dialogue between Bioware and fans (on many levels in fact) is due to the curious disconnect between the company's message to their consumers (which obfuscates such truths, as your comments did just then), with their eventual dealings.

[clarkusdarkus]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I'm reasonably certain that BioWare would never be able to give you an answer that you would accept, sUiCiDeKiNgS13, since it seems "because that's what they decided to do" won't do for an answer.

Your actually speaking for him then. implying he'll never accept anything they say on the matter, your last sentance speaks volumes of how disconnected bioware would seem to be, hence leading to discomfort from many a fan like myself. Day 1 dlc will never make sense when an apparant fullgame has just been released.

[Omega2079]

sUiCiDeKiNgS13 wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

I just want BW to tell me flat out why Zaeed was free w/ purchase, but Javik had to be paid for. If they can give me a straight answer without speaking in double sentences, I will gladly listen.

You have to pay for both of them. Buy a new copy of ME2 and Zaeed is bundled with it. Buy a second hand copy, and you need to buy a separate code.

Even if they gave away some free dlc at one point, that doesn't obligate them to do it again. You're not entitled to it.

[corkey sweet]

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

[Omega2079]

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

[corkey sweet]

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content