514 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega2079]

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content

ok. You said future profits. What do you mean by that?

You're buying a licence for the game, not the game itself. The game is never your property. Why is timing an issue?

You mention 'withholding' content. What's wrong with this? They're selling a product. Are you saying you're entitled to dlc after you buy a licence for a game?

Modifié par Omega2079, 08 septembre 2012 - 05:48 .

[corkey sweet]

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content

ok. You said future profits. What do you mean by that?

You're buying a licence for the game, not the game itself. The game is never your property. Why is timing an issue?

You mention 'withholding' content. What's wrong with this? They're selling a product. Are you saying you're entitled to dlc after you buy a licence for a game?

im saying im entitled to things that are already on the disc. game companies are walking a very thin legal line with disc locked content. one day, it will probably be a crime (Javik is on the disc)

[Omega2079]

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content

ok. You said future profits. What do you mean by that?

You're buying a licence for the game, not the game itself. The game is never your property. Why is timing an issue?

You mention 'withholding' content. What's wrong with this? They're selling a product. Are you saying you're entitled to dlc after you buy a licence for a game?

im saying im entitled to things that are already on the disc. game companies are walking a very thin legal line with disc locked content. one day, it will probably be a crime (Javik is on the disc)

It's only partly on the disk. What's on the disk doesn't do much.

How are you enttiled to what's on the disk? Are you challenging legal/contractual theory with your statement?

[corkey sweet]

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content

ok. You said future profits. What do you mean by that?

You're buying a licence for the game, not the game itself. The game is never your property. Why is timing an issue?

You mention 'withholding' content. What's wrong with this? They're selling a product. Are you saying you're entitled to dlc after you buy a licence for a game?

im saying im entitled to things that are already on the disc. game companies are walking a very thin legal line with disc locked content. one day, it will probably be a crime (Javik is on the disc)

It's only partly on the disk. What's on the disk doesn't do much.

How are you enttiled to what's on the disk? Are you challenging legal/contractual theory with your statement?

yes,

 i personally think these kinds of practices will eventually qualify as a crime in the future. companies better watch themselves. thats what i am saying. as for from Ashes Bioware originally said it wasn't on the disc. this turned out to be false becuase Javik and his squad banter are already on the disc. the download only gave you the Edin Prime mission. i have a serious problem with this kind of practice. it might not be illegal (yet) but companies are walking a very fine line with customer satisfaction to say the least

[SpamBot2000]

If anything, withholding money from a corporation if you have access to some is going to be a crime.

[Isichar]

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

I guess your response means you think you and their customers aren't capable of making these decisions.

Pretty much describes EA's fanbase, drones incapable of thinking for themselves. Whats good for the company is good for them or so they believe.

Im just joking... although not entirely

Mass Effect 3, rated AO for Adults Only!

Yes you certainly seem to be pushing the adult thing. You see as someone who pays bills and earns my own cash to spend I have a little thing called an opinion on the things my cash goes towards. Its just one of those great perks about been a consumer in the real world.

So you're in favor of consumers making their own decisions. I'm happy to see I've convinced you.

Oh no I am always for people having their opinions on something they have spent money towards, whether it is a good or bad. My opinion is just that it is blatantly asking me to pay more for a complete game(which of course I want) and is a bad way to do business. Rationalize it all you want but I find it disrespectful for someone who has actually boughten all the previous DLC's and would infact previously buy any bioware DLC (yes even DA2).
I am not going to argue whether they have a right to do so. I am just personally unimpressed with the entire system and attitude behind it and don't intend to support it.

Modifié par Isichar, 08 septembre 2012 - 06:10 .

[corkey sweet]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

If anything, withholding money from a corporation if you have access to some is going to be a crime.

yeah,

with the way the world is going, this wouldn't be a surprise

[HiddenInWar]

tomcplotts wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

probably because it's a form of corporate theft and deceit. ashes wasn't an add on. it was plot essential and part of the original game. so they took it out and resold it to you. i'm from a generation and time that used to believe that constituted fraud.

they want to charge more for the game? then charge more. let the market decide. stop trying to lie and cheat your way from a 60 buck game to a 70 buck game.

Incidentally, this is also why I hate DLC (as opposed to expansion packs, which are not the same thing). Few things are worse than having your story split up over a long period of time and sold to you in installments. Make the bloody game, front to back, and sell it for what you think is a fair profit. that way you keep the iontegrity of the experience intact.

this is  one drawback to high speed internet. it encourages installments on game purchasing.

 

I fail to see how this is corporate deceit? Javik is most certainly not a *vital* part of the story, hes just an add to the roster and is completley optional. 

[Blueprotoss]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.

Let's not even get into the shady practice of incouraging consumers to not making informed decisions on purchasing products from their company.  I wait for a game to be released and get information from reviewers I trust before I buy a game and I shouldn't be punished for being a responsable consumer.

Being responsible would be listening to an unbiased second opinion or making an educated decision on your own merit. 

[corkey sweet]

HiddenInWar wrote...

tomcplotts wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

probably because it's a form of corporate theft and deceit. ashes wasn't an add on. it was plot essential and part of the original game. so they took it out and resold it to you. i'm from a generation and time that used to believe that constituted fraud.

they want to charge more for the game? then charge more. let the market decide. stop trying to lie and cheat your way from a 60 buck game to a 70 buck game.

Incidentally, this is also why I hate DLC (as opposed to expansion packs, which are not the same thing). Few things are worse than having your story split up over a long period of time and sold to you in installments. Make the bloody game, front to back, and sell it for what you think is a fair profit. that way you keep the iontegrity of the experience intact.

this is  one drawback to high speed internet. it encourages installments on game purchasing.

 

I fail to see how this is corporate deceit? Javik is most certainly not a *vital* part of the story, hes just an add to the roster and is completley optional. 

i think Javik is an important part the story. i coudn't see ME3 being very good without it. I guess its a matter of opinion

[robertthebard]

corkey sweet wrote...

yes,

 i personally think these kinds of practices will eventually qualify as a crime in the future. companies better watch themselves. thats what i am saying. as for from Ashes Bioware originally said it wasn't on the disc. this turned out to be false becuase Javik and his squad banter are already on the disc. the download only gave you the Edin Prime mission. i have a serious problem with this kind of practice. it might not be illegal (yet) but companies are walking a very fine line with customer satisfaction to say the least

Here's the thing; what did you buy when you bought Mass Effect 3?  Did you buy every piece of content they ever develop for it, since it is all ME 3 related?  They put the hooks and placeholders in for a squadmate they knew they were going to offer, however, w/out the mission on Eden Prime, you know, the only thing you buy with the DLC, there is no squadmate, and the hooks and placeholders do nothing.  By your logic, if they release a Retake Omega DLC, it should be free, beause Aria is already sitting in the bar on the Citadel, so the hooks and placeholders are already in place.  Not the case.  What they should shy away from, however, is offering CE material to everyone, ever.  They let everyone buy it on Day 1, and look what that got 'em...

[I am disappoint]

DLC should never be in the collectors edition.

[Dessalines]

Don't buy it. Seriously, day one dlcs are cool. I see the anti-dlcs feel that they are being cheated. You feel that companies are making extra money on something they should offer for you for free, because majority of the content is already there.
It is like ordering a pepperoni pizza, and then still wanting just four more pepperoni on your pizza, and getting mad about being charge.
It is like going to a concert for your favorite band, and demanding your money back because they did not sing your favorite song. They have all the instruments there.
It is like paying extra for anything that everyone does every single day.
The problem is that a lot of people see video games are like classic novels, they are more like comic books in the nineties. It is almost the same marketing tools, "Collector's Edition, Ultimate Edition, Holographic Covers, Cards, DLCs are those tie-in issues you had to pay for when you really just wanted to read Infinity Gauntlet miniseries, but you wasn't familiar with all the characters involved. DLCS are those reboot issuses you bought eventhough the series didn't really change that much.

[corkey sweet]

robertthebard wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

yes,

 i personally think these kinds of practices will eventually qualify as a crime in the future. companies better watch themselves. thats what i am saying. as for from Ashes Bioware originally said it wasn't on the disc. this turned out to be false becuase Javik and his squad banter are already on the disc. the download only gave you the Edin Prime mission. i have a serious problem with this kind of practice. it might not be illegal (yet) but companies are walking a very fine line with customer satisfaction to say the least

Here's the thing; what did you buy when you bought Mass Effect 3?  Did you buy every piece of content they ever develop for it, since it is all ME 3 related?  They put the hooks and placeholders in for a squadmate they knew they were going to offer, however, w/out the mission on Eden Prime, you know, the only thing you buy with the DLC, there is no squadmate, and the hooks and placeholders do nothing.  By your logic, if they release a Retake Omega DLC, it should be free, beause Aria is already sitting in the bar on the Citadel, so the hooks and placeholders are already in place.  Not the case.  What they should shy away from, however, is offering CE material to everyone, ever.  They let everyone buy it on Day 1, and look what that got 'em...

i guess i was most unhappy with the lying. that was the most disappointing part of the whole thing:crying:

Modifié par corkey sweet, 08 septembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Blueprotoss]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

The Cerberus network was an incentive to buy the game new, and a way to get some money from those who bought it used. With ME3 someone at Bioware/EA must have realised that they could generate more profits by charging everyone for new content, even those who had already paid full price. Greed is always the answer for everything EA does.

Most of the DLC isn't free for games even when it comes to the "free to play" model.  I'm not a fan of the VIP pass while you sholdn't play the blame game when it didn't come with free DLC this time.

[Oni Changas]

Bro, it ain't about ”optional” it's the principal of the matter. The purpose of dlc is to extend a games' life, not strip games of content only to sell later for profits to take advantage of gamers. If you can't see that then you're an apologist with your head so far up these publishers' asses that you can sniff their intestines.

[Omega2079]

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

Nothing is wrong with real day 1 dlc (as long as its created after the game goes to certification). Since Javik was proven to be on the disc in some capacity. its clear From Ashes (for example) was always intended to be withheld for future profits. it is this, that i have a problem with, and i choose to speak with my wallet and not buy Dlc's of this nature

Why do you have a problem with profits?

i don't

 create fresh content after the game is out (this is what real dlc is) not witholding already completed content

ok. You said future profits. What do you mean by that?

You're buying a licence for the game, not the game itself. The game is never your property. Why is timing an issue?

You mention 'withholding' content. What's wrong with this? They're selling a product. Are you saying you're entitled to dlc after you buy a licence for a game?

im saying im entitled to things that are already on the disc. game companies are walking a very thin legal line with disc locked content. one day, it will probably be a crime (Javik is on the disc)

It's only partly on the disk. What's on the disk doesn't do much.

How are you enttiled to what's on the disk? Are you challenging legal/contractual theory with your statement?

yes,

 i personally think these kinds of practices will eventually qualify as a crime in the future. companies better watch themselves. thats what i am saying. as for from Ashes Bioware originally said it wasn't on the disc. this turned out to be false becuase Javik and his squad banter are already on the disc. the download only gave you the Edin Prime mission. i have a serious problem with this kind of practice. it might not be illegal (yet) but companies are walking a very fine line with customer satisfaction to say the least

Making it a crime won't help gaming. What you're advocating will raise costs for developers, ultimately hurting content. If it's a crime they have to watch out for so they don't get in trouble, well that's more costs, both in time and money.

One reason they put on disc dlc, which is a separate purchase is because of the costs of deployment. Sony and Microsoft charge for use of their network. This added cost reduces incentive and in some cases makes it unfeasable to offer the dlc.

Another reason is that the earlier in the game's life that dlc is avilable, the more interest there is in it. As the game ages, interest in dlc drops off.

As for changes to the legal system, I highly doubt that it will change to the way you think it will. Governments tend to listen to lobbyists rather than the general public, unless the public gets upset and actually does something about it, which is rare. And when they do, it usually in the form of more government control, (stricter laws) and that never ends up well.

[Blueprotoss]

I am disappoint wrote...

Everyone who bought new ME2 got the DLC.
By Bioware doing it this way they encouraged more people to buy the limited edition or collectors edition earning them more money.
This caused people who brought the standard edition to miss out on important story DLC needed to experience the Mass effect Universe fully, naturally loads of fans bought it because they wanted it for the story.

Cerberus Network was less relevant and not as interesting so even if people did buy second hand they probably would not have bought Cerberus Network too.

Bioware did it this way to earn more money.

Yet one of the points to make a game and DLC is to make money.

[corkey sweet]

OniTYME wrote...

Bro, it ain't about ”optional” it's the principal of the matter. The purpose of dlc is to extend a games' life, not strip games of content only to sell later for profits to take advantage of gamers. If you can't see that then you're an apologist with your head so far up these publishers' asses that you can sniff their intestines.

this^

[Omega2079]

OniTYME wrote...

Bro, it ain't about ”optional” it's the principal of the matter. The purpose of dlc is to extend a games' life, not strip games of content only to sell later for profits to take advantage of gamers. If you can't see that then you're an apologist with your head so far up these publishers' asses that you can sniff their intestines.

How is it taking advantage?

[I am disappoint]

Blueprotoss wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

Everyone who bought new ME2 got the DLC.
By Bioware doing it this way they encouraged more people to buy the limited edition or collectors edition earning them more money.
This caused people who brought the standard edition to miss out on important story DLC needed to experience the Mass effect Universe fully, naturally loads of fans bought it because they wanted it for the story.

Cerberus Network was less relevant and not as interesting so even if people did buy second hand they probably would not have bought Cerberus Network too.

Bioware did it this way to earn more money.

Yet one of the points to make a game and DLC is to make money.

Well games are sold in a shop for money and not thrown at people for free.
The problem with this is that Bioware/EA cut Leviathan(Which was already finished), From Ashes and Omega( which was probably finished last November) from the main game only to sell them for $30.
Very bad business practices.

[Blueprotoss]

drayfish wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

I'm reasonably certain that BioWare would never be able to give you an answer that you would accept, sUiCiDeKiNgS13, since it seems "because that's what they decided to do" won't do for an answer.

I believe the second half of that response (the part you are leaving out) is because it is more profitable to do so, yes?

It is okay to say that: Bioware (and EA) is a business in the interests of making money, and such practices are no surprise.

I suspect that the issue that is occuring here in the dialogue between Bioware and fans (on many levels in fact) is due to the curious disconnect between the company's message to their consumers (which obfuscates such truths, as your comments did just then), with their eventual dealings.

This isn't a grand conspiracy even when two of the main points for DLC is to make money and to lengthen the life of the game.

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Your actually speaking for him then. implying he'll never accept anything they say on the matter, your last sentance speaks volumes of how disconnected bioware would seem to be, hence leading to discomfort from many a fan like myself. Day 1 dlc will never make sense when an apparant fullgame has just been released.

Its nothing new that a Bioware quote is taken out of context on BSN and it seems you missed that ME3 was done in January, which means some of the Bioware teams went into DLC mode with some of the unfinished or shelved content.  Btw  Day 1 DLC isn't anything new especially when its an old concept and no one has out done Gears of War 3 yet on that topic. 

[robertthebard]

I am disappoint wrote...

DLC should never be in the collectors edition.

That is exactly my point.  If you want CE material, you should have to buy the CE, not get a bone, and then an excuse to complain about it, or throw out accusations of lying.  From Ashes was CE material, if you bought CE, you didn't have to buy it, as you got it with your copy, on Day 1.  This should have been the only way it was available.

[Omega2079]

robertthebard wrote...

I am disappoint wrote...

DLC should never be in the collectors edition.

That is exactly my point.  If you want CE material, you should have to buy the CE, not get a bone, and then an excuse to complain about it, or throw out accusations of lying.  From Ashes was CE material, if you bought CE, you didn't have to buy it, as you got it with your copy, on Day 1.  This should have been the only way it was available.

So they should offer their customers fewer choices?