Keep supporting this crap and see what you're left with in another few years.
Just drop your pants and let 'em have you.
What exactly is wrong with Day 1 DLC?
Débuté par
HiddenInWar
, août 30 2012 08:16
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#27
Posté 30 août 2012 - 09:41
Xellith
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Day 1 DLC is like paying a hooker for some sex and you only get off if you pay a little extra.
#28
Posté 30 août 2012 - 09:48
nevar00
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In theory, it should be something that can't make it into the main game in time and isn't needed, but is something that people can download for extra gameplay.
It goes south when game designers take parts of the finished game out just to sell it as day 1 DLC: something that has been caught in the past. Absolutely pathetic, money grubbing, and disgusting.
It also goes wrong when something incredibly important is left out of the game. Shadow Broker and Arrival were not so important (more so Shadow Broker) and branched the two games; they were fine. Bringing Down The Sky was it's own contained story, that's fine. From The Ashes and a living Prothean were already suspected of being removed from the main game, and regardless a living Prothean is so drastically important to the lore of Mass Effect that many people, myself included, felt it should've been a no-brainer to include it as an important part of the story as it is. I feel the same way about Leviathan as well actually, that too should've been apart of the main game. Something like Retake Omega is a minor side quest and self-contained story, and something that fits perfectly into DLC.
It goes south when game designers take parts of the finished game out just to sell it as day 1 DLC: something that has been caught in the past. Absolutely pathetic, money grubbing, and disgusting.
It also goes wrong when something incredibly important is left out of the game. Shadow Broker and Arrival were not so important (more so Shadow Broker) and branched the two games; they were fine. Bringing Down The Sky was it's own contained story, that's fine. From The Ashes and a living Prothean were already suspected of being removed from the main game, and regardless a living Prothean is so drastically important to the lore of Mass Effect that many people, myself included, felt it should've been a no-brainer to include it as an important part of the story as it is. I feel the same way about Leviathan as well actually, that too should've been apart of the main game. Something like Retake Omega is a minor side quest and self-contained story, and something that fits perfectly into DLC.
#29
Posté 30 août 2012 - 09:50
RinuCZ
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As I see it, a vanilla game should be a complete story as intended. Downloadable content comes later reacting on players' feedback/demand. Its purpose is to enrich an in-game universe and gives a wanted extra before saying a goodbye to the game.
Day 1 DLC comes with a vanilla game; it is developed among the core game. Thus there has to be a thought how it will work with the story, how it completes the arc. Maybe I'm not good at explaining the difference but it's definitely there.
Right now I can think of one example of "time-sensitive" perspective:
1) A game contains a bug. Developers know about it, finish a functional patch after the game went gold and before a release day but decide to distribute it after there is a certain amount of people interested, e.g. due to additional distribution costs.
2) A game contains a bug. Developers haven't discovered it, players bump into it & inform them, devs create a patch and distribute it after testing.
I know that the example isn't very good but it serves its purpose. Add money into the scenario and it looks like a pure cash calculus.
Yeah, DLC can sell an unnecessary things like guns or outfits, so it doesn't have to take anything away from vanilla. Yet we're living in the era when game studios invent more and more "how to get money" strategies which take little by little from a player every time. Be it Day 1 DLC, always-online DRM, region restrictions, etc. This phenomen is more like a symptom of the bigger problem.
Day 1 DLC comes with a vanilla game; it is developed among the core game. Thus there has to be a thought how it will work with the story, how it completes the arc. Maybe I'm not good at explaining the difference but it's definitely there.
Right now I can think of one example of "time-sensitive" perspective:
1) A game contains a bug. Developers know about it, finish a functional patch after the game went gold and before a release day but decide to distribute it after there is a certain amount of people interested, e.g. due to additional distribution costs.
2) A game contains a bug. Developers haven't discovered it, players bump into it & inform them, devs create a patch and distribute it after testing.
I know that the example isn't very good but it serves its purpose. Add money into the scenario and it looks like a pure cash calculus.
Yeah, DLC can sell an unnecessary things like guns or outfits, so it doesn't have to take anything away from vanilla. Yet we're living in the era when game studios invent more and more "how to get money" strategies which take little by little from a player every time. Be it Day 1 DLC, always-online DRM, region restrictions, etc. This phenomen is more like a symptom of the bigger problem.
Modifié par RinuCZ, 30 août 2012 - 10:08 .
#30
Posté 30 août 2012 - 09:57
tanisha__unknown
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DLC is additional content. Till release, I expect devs to work on the actual game. Additional content available on release day is content taken out from the game to make extra money of gamers. I don't like such business practice. I have paid for the full game, I want the full game. So after all
- either devs should have released the game earlier (not saying I like that, the game already feels rushed) when it is acutally finished and give us the additional content when it is ready and not both on release day
- if they feel they don't earn enough to cover production costs, their is always the possibility of charging more for a game, I would gladly have paid 10-20 € more for a game which contained the DLC and had less flaws
- either devs should have released the game earlier (not saying I like that, the game already feels rushed) when it is acutally finished and give us the additional content when it is ready and not both on release day
- if they feel they don't earn enough to cover production costs, their is always the possibility of charging more for a game, I would gladly have paid 10-20 € more for a game which contained the DLC and had less flaws
#31
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:15
Hydralysk
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Jinx1720 wrote...
DLC is additional content. Till release, I expect devs to work on the actual game. Additional content available on release day is content taken out from the game to make extra money of gamers. I don't like such business practice. I have paid for the full game, I want the full game. So after all
- either devs should have released the game earlier (not saying I like that, the game already feels rushed) when it is acutally finished and give us the additional content when it is ready and not both on release day
- if they feel they don't earn enough to cover production costs, their is always the possibility of charging more for a game, I would gladly have paid 10-20 € more for a game which contained the DLC and had less flaws
Pretty much, I couldn't help but be baffled when I saw that Bioware said that Javik was something they made after ME3 was done. Clearly since all the squadmates and crew have dialogue with Javik, his lines were written and recorded alongside the other voice actors. There's a reason Zaeed and Kasumi didn't have any dialogue with other squadmates, because companies will not rehire the entire cast just to add a couple lines of dialogue with an optional character, it's just not cost effective.
If Bioware wanted to include Javik they should've postponed the game till he was done since it's obvious he was supposed to be included from the start.
#32
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:33
eddieoctane
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My problem with From Ashes stems from the fact that it cost money. Compare it with the Cerberus Network. Chacrtaer, mission, and weapon included as DLC free to new customers. It was intended as a way for EA to get a small chunk of the pre-owned profit. All in all, that didn't bother me. And the number of things that came with that $15 pass was actually much more than we got with From Ashes.
1 character,1 weapon, and 1 mission; vs 1 character, 3 weapons, a suit of armor, and 6 combat missions. Dollar for dollar, the day-one DLC went hugely down the drain with From Ashes. It was worth $5, max, and should have been free with new purchases. The value just isn't there.
1 character,1 weapon, and 1 mission; vs 1 character, 3 weapons, a suit of armor, and 6 combat missions. Dollar for dollar, the day-one DLC went hugely down the drain with From Ashes. It was worth $5, max, and should have been free with new purchases. The value just isn't there.
#33
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:37
Paultheoctopus
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Because it was on the disk completed, and they still made u pay money for it. Remember me2 and the cerberus network. They gave a bunch of free stuff out, DLC, that wasnt included as part of the original. From ashes was a cheap way of getting more money. Just ripping your fans off
#34
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:39
EnvyTB075
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It wasn't that necessary to the plot, but it really should've been included.
Sometimes its about principle.
Sometimes its about principle.
#35
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:40
revl8n-
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There is no one answer for every situation. In the case of DLC, it depends on how integral the DLC content is relative to the $60 game I just bought. In the case of ME3 it was obvious that Ashes was just a way to extract another $10 from what has been a dedicated customer base. IMO, Bioware intended this content as central theme material and knew it would effectively squeeze the extra $10 from vast majority of 1st day purchasers. It worked. I bought it. And I suffered through a game that fell so short of expectations (based on previous games and hype hype hype about choices matter and custom endings) that I will NEVER purchase another Bioware game.
#36
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:46
Sajuro
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This honestly. I think it was fair for From Ashes to cost ten dollars since it was originally a CE exclusive but fan whining got it to be DLCBinary_Helix 1 wrote...
From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.
Same here to bolded part.
#37
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:57
Hydralysk
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You seriously think that Bioware would've just left it as a CE only character? There's no way Bioware would put that much money into developing it if it was only going to be available as a CE incentive....Sajuro wrote...
This honestly. I think it was fair for From Ashes to cost ten dollars since it was originally a CE exclusive but fan whining got it to be DLCBinary_Helix 1 wrote...
From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.
Same here to bolded part.
#38
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:58
Omega2079
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Nothing. Some people don't seem to understand how EULAs and property work.
Edit: And an inflated sense of self-entitlement.
Edit: And an inflated sense of self-entitlement.
Modifié par Omega2079, 30 août 2012 - 11:01 .
#39
Posté 30 août 2012 - 10:59
JBPBRC
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The problem is that having DLC on Day 1 encourages publishers and developers to chop off and/or delay pieces of the game, things that would normally have been included, and then charge extra for it. All in the name of making a quick buck.
#40
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:05
Sajuro
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Then it should have been ten dollars when it came out, since it was at least a time exlcusive for the CE at firstHydralysk wrote...
You seriously think that Bioware would've just left it as a CE only character? There's no way Bioware would put that much money into developing it if it was only going to be available as a CE incentive....Sajuro wrote...
This honestly. I think it was fair for From Ashes to cost ten dollars since it was originally a CE exclusive but fan whining got it to be DLCBinary_Helix 1 wrote...
From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.
Same here to bolded part.
#41
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:05
Omega2079
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JBPBRC wrote...
The problem is that having DLC on Day 1 encourages publishers and developers to chop off and/or delay pieces of the game, things that would normally have been included, and then charge extra for it. All in the name of making a quick buck.
They'll only make money if it's seen as a worth while purchase.
#42
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:08
LanceSolous13
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Day 1 DLC can be an issue on some levels.
From Ashes contains a squadmate who is rather important to the overarching story of Mass Effect and is rather significant to the third game alone. Arguably, He is the most important squadmate in the game in terms of relevence to the plot.
I would also agree that Kasumi and Zaeed were poor choices for Day 1 DLC and just DLC in general. Espicially when the game files suggest they had full conversations too.
Now, Overlord would be what could be acceptable as a Day 1 DLC. Its tells a neat and self-contained story that, though interesting to a certain extent, isn't all "Plot Relevent" like From Ashes is as well as the fact that it doesn't do much outside of its own story (Hence, self-contained).
From Ashes contains a squadmate who is rather important to the overarching story of Mass Effect and is rather significant to the third game alone. Arguably, He is the most important squadmate in the game in terms of relevence to the plot.
I would also agree that Kasumi and Zaeed were poor choices for Day 1 DLC and just DLC in general. Espicially when the game files suggest they had full conversations too.
Now, Overlord would be what could be acceptable as a Day 1 DLC. Its tells a neat and self-contained story that, though interesting to a certain extent, isn't all "Plot Relevent" like From Ashes is as well as the fact that it doesn't do much outside of its own story (Hence, self-contained).
#43
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:09
corkey sweet
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if the dlc was ready for day 1, it probably was pulled from the original game so the developer can get extra money for it. That's my beef with day 1 dlc
#44
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:11
ShepnTali
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Xellith wrote...
Day 1 DLC is like paying a hooker for some sex and you only get off if you pay a little extra.
It better be some good DLC. ^^
#45
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:13
Someone With Mass
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Some people just fail to understand that not everything the devs planned in the concept stage can be made on time or make it into the final game build. Or that the devs aren't working on the game until the final days, for that matter.
They could have just cut Javik out completely and none would have been the wiser. They simply prioritized other things ahead of him.
And really, it's just 8-10 bucks. I have spent more money on lunch breaks.
They could have just cut Javik out completely and none would have been the wiser. They simply prioritized other things ahead of him.
And really, it's just 8-10 bucks. I have spent more money on lunch breaks.
#46
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:14
Binary_Helix 1
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LucasShark wrote...
Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.
That is idiotic.
How so? Because not everyone will have access to it? So what? From Ashes was originally suppose to be a CE exclusive.
Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 30 août 2012 - 11:25 .
#47
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:14
Mims
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Day 1 DLC only bothers me when companies assume we're stupid. We know these projects are not developed separately, they are completely created to be additional assets to the game. That's not a problem. I know how things go, you need to plan for additional revenue. You've got the art team twiddling their thumbs making rainbow lights for the ending cinematics.
But the thing that made From Ashes problematic was this:
- We already had the original story leak, and Javik was in it. Pretty substantially.
- Rather then it being free, like Zaeed, we were charged for it.
Personally, I would have held off Javik until a month after ME3. But then again, its possible they were suspecting **** might go down over the ending, and knew they had to cash in ASAP.
But the thing that made From Ashes problematic was this:
- We already had the original story leak, and Javik was in it. Pretty substantially.
- Rather then it being free, like Zaeed, we were charged for it.
Personally, I would have held off Javik until a month after ME3. But then again, its possible they were suspecting **** might go down over the ending, and knew they had to cash in ASAP.
#48
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:17
Omega2079
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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
LucasShark wrote...
Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
From Ashes should have been exclusive to the Collectors Edition as a bonus. Bioware gets their extra money and hardcore fans get extra lore. Everybody wins except people who didn't pre-order on time. FYI I pre-ordered a year in advance.
That is idiotic.
How so? Because not everyone will have access to it? So what?
They can price their products how they like. I doubt however they'll do this with anything substantial storywise though because they'll make more money by selling the dlc to others when they're ready to buy it.
#49
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:20
BatmanPWNS
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Cut content just so publishers/developers can make a quick buck. That's Day 1 DLC.
#50
Posté 30 août 2012 - 11:22
Andy the Black
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It depends. Somthing like Ashes or the day one DLC for DA:O I'm okay with, as this was content that woundn't have been finished for launch and if it weren't for DLC we would not have seen this stuff. You want an example of how not to do DLC look at Capcom.
