514 réponses à ce sujet

[CELL55]

ME2: Zaeed, a mercenary, was free for people who bought the game new, whatever edition. Good job, Bioware, have a treat.
ME3: Javik, a character who brings a great deal of depth to the lore and overall story of the games, and who has most of his content already included ON THE DISK, is sold for $10, 1/6 of the price of the game. People who bought the N7 Edition get it for free. Bad, naughty Bioware. You are sleeping outside the house tonight.

Do you see the problem? Although most of Javik's content was already on the disk that you PAID for, and the fact that he was infinitely more important to the lore and story than Zaeed was, you had to pay EXTRA for it. This is bad. Time to send Bioware off to the pound.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Omega2079 wrote...

They can price their products how they like. I doubt however they'll do this with anything substantial storywise though because they'll make more money by selling the dlc to others when they're ready to buy it.

With the Jade Empire CE you got a new main character. Stuff like that actually makes a CE worthwhile unlike crappy tin cases.

Javik was originally a CE bonus making it DLC satisfied no one. Bioware needs to stop trying to be everything to everyone.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 30 août 2012 - 11:32 .

[HiddenInWar]

ShepnTali wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Day 1 DLC is like paying a hooker for some sex and you only get off if you pay a little extra.

It better be some good DLC. ^^

 

Oh god lol 

[Hydralysk]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Omega2079 wrote...

They can price their products how they like. I doubt however they'll do this with anything substantial storywise though because they'll make more money by selling the dlc to others when they're ready to buy it.

With the Jade Empire CE you got a new main character. Stuff like that actually makes a CE worthwhile unlike crappy tin cases.

Javik was originally a CE bonus making it DLC satisfied no one. Bioware needs to stop trying to be everything to everyone.

Try to imagine for a moment, a Prothean squadmate which adds a lot of backstory and a new perspective on an enigmatic race, that you could only get via CE. People would have gone apes***.

You think they are complaining about paying $10 on launch day to get the character? Try making it only available in limited quantities and cost $20 more than the normal game.

[Darth Death]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Cut content just so publishers/developers can make a quick buck. That's Day 1 DLC.

Pretty much.

[Omega2079]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Javik was originally a CE bonus making it DLC satisfied no one.

I bought a copy afterward. So have many others. I'd say that disproves your assertion.

[Hudathan]

If they made day 1 DLC, then they could have delayed the launch of the game in order to make their product as complete as possible. There used to be a time when developers put in extra effort in order to earn their customer loyalty by giving them as much bang for their buck as possible. Nowadays DLC's are just a way for publishers to profit off the technological advances in digital distribution, something that should have made life easier/better for the consumer but is instead used to make companies richer.

The argument isn't that the DLC is bad. Quite the contrary, From Ashes is excellent imho. However that just means Bioware/EA could have made the default game that much better for the same price as a mediocre game made by someone else. That kind of thing brings real support from the gaming community and they will ultimately benefit financially from that kind of appreciation. So yeah, it sucks that companies are no longer willing to go the extra mile like that as long as we're speaking from a consumer perspective.

Modifié par Hudathan, 31 août 2012 - 02:40 .

[ZombieGambit]

Nothing is wrong with Day-1 DLC, everyone who complains about it is completely clueless about the development process.

Let's say a developer making a AAA title is given 1 year and 10 months to complete it, but the game won't be released for 2 years. After the allotted time has passed and if the game is indeed complete it all comes down to bug testing, marketing etc. The majority of the programmers are no longer needed and so they're sent home to wait for the next project.

Now, if a developer decides it wants to include DLC on the first day it instead tasks these programmers to start developing it and then it can be tested after the main game has gone "golden" and released alongside it.

Instead of waiting a month or more to release this finished content developers usually decide to release it as soon as possible to make the most out of the hype surrounding the game and it's a show to fans that they plan to continue to support they game through DLC.

Now, take From Ashes. It went through the same process, but BioWare had enough time to manage to put some placeholders for Javik on the disc to save download space. The download contained everything except Javik, it included the mission, dialogue, new squadmate outfits, and weapon.

Yep, nothing wrong with Day-1 DLC.

[Rip504]

It wouldn't be as bad, If BW did not overcharge for their content. I in no way believe either SP DLC was worth the price tag associated with it.

The game is obviously lacking in content.

Modifié par Rip504, 31 août 2012 - 03:05 .

[Hydralysk]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Nothing is wrong with Day-1 DLC, everyone who complains about it is completely clueless about the development process.

Let's say a developer making a AAA title is given 1 year and 10 months to complete it, but the game won't be released for 2 years. After the allotted time has passed and if the game is indeed complete it all comes down to bug testing, marketing etc. The majority of the programmers are no longer needed and so they're sent home to wait for the next project.

Now, if a developer decides it wants to include DLC on the first day it instead tasks these programmers to start developing it and then it can be tested after the main game has gone "golden" and released alongside it.

Instead of waiting a month or more to release this finished content developers usually decide to release it as soon as possible to make the most out of the hype surrounding the game and it's a show to fans that they plan to continue to support they game through DLC.

Now, take From Ashes. It went through the same process, but BioWare had enough time to manage to put some placeholders for Javik on the disc to save download space. The download contained everything except Javik, it included the mission, dialogue, new squadmate outfits, and weapon.

Yep, nothing wrong with Day-1 DLC.

Once again, you think that the fact that Javik has intersquad dialogue makes that just a bit unlikey? It's obvious they had Javik written and recorded alongside the other voice actors, otherwise they wouldn't of had any dialogue with the Normandy crew, just like how Zaeed and Kasumi functioned. Which means he was intended as part of the story long before the game went gold, and was cut for time out of the original game for one reason or another.

Now if Javik was free with a bought copy of ME3 like Zaeed I wouldn't of minded, but Javik is $10 while also being a more plot important character than Zaeed or Kasumi was. They also could have delayed the game so as to finish Javik's DLC. 

Instead Javik was sold to us day one for $10 after we already payed $60 + tax to play the game. 

Modifié par Hydralysk, 31 août 2012 - 03:14 .

[txmn1016]

There is nothing wrong with Day 1 DLC in of itself. The problem with From Ashes was that it was a little too integral to the story to be a DLC at all. A game should never feel incomplete without DLC and ME3 came dangerously close without From Ashes. DLC should be there to complement the story. You shouldn't ever feel like you're buying an incomplete game.

[Hudathan]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Nothing is wrong with Day-1 DLC, everyone who complains about it is completely clueless about the development process.

Let's say a developer making a AAA title is given 1 year and 10 months to complete it, but the game won't be released for 2 years. After the allotted time has passed and if the game is indeed complete it all comes down to bug testing, marketing etc. The majority of the programmers are no longer needed and so they're sent home to wait for the next project.

Now, if a developer decides it wants to include DLC on the first day it instead tasks these programmers to start developing it and then it can be tested after the main game has gone "golden" and released alongside it.

Instead of waiting a month or more to release this finished content developers usually decide to release it as soon as possible to make the most out of the hype surrounding the game and it's a show to fans that they plan to continue to support they game through DLC.

Now, take From Ashes. It went through the same process, but BioWare had enough time to manage to put some placeholders for Javik on the disc to save download space. The download contained everything except Javik, it included the mission, dialogue, new squadmate outfits, and weapon.

Yep, nothing wrong with Day-1 DLC.

If the developer had more ideas about the game that fall outside the alotted time, I don't see why they couldn't just say "hey we need more time to make this game as complete as possible". You think if Bioware asked the community if they would be willing to wait 3 more months in order to play a longer game that people would say no? Of course they wouldn't, because we as consumers expect the most out of our favorite companies.

So they had a year and 10 months to make this game and the DLC required more time? Then get the publisher to give them more time. That kind of effort is how you end up with products that stand out from the rest. In fact, don't release the game until you've exhausted all your good ideas and put it into one complete product. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

ME3 was going to be a huge release and it was hyped beyond reason. It's not some indie project where the developer is constantly restrained by budget limits and the like. There is no reason why they couldn't take the time to make it as good as possible at launch. Here's an idea: if there was really no way to bump back the development time because it's magically set in stone, then why didn't they release the DLC free of charge as a bonus for purchasing a brand new copy the way they did with Zaeed? If this content was quality enough to be released, then why aren't they eager to make sure everyone gets to experience it? Why nickle and dime people? 

Modifié par Hudathan, 31 août 2012 - 03:30 .

[NS Wizdum]

So. many. analogies.

The problem that people cite most often, is that this will lead to developers selling you a shell of a game, and then charging extra for the rest. Newsflash: Some developers already tried this, and they lost many customers because of it. I personally see nothing wrong with day 1 DLC, since in most cases the game reaches a feature-complete stage a year prior to launch, and goes gold 2 - 3 months prior to launch. The developer is then stuck with an excess of programmers and artists. Might as well have them work on DLC. My theory is that From Ashes was cut due to time constraints. It happens all the time when you start getting close to deadlines. You cut out whatever isn't close to completion.

Edit:
Hudathan, the problem with that is the publishers. Making a video game is an investment and a huge risk. Publishers dump money into development and marketing, in the hopes that they will make more money than they put in at some point in the future. Sure, the fans (the real ones anyway) wouldn't mind waiting an additional 3 months, but that extra time costs the publisher millions in salaries, marketing, and development. Do you think they would have made enough additional sales by including From Ashes, to make back the millions of dollars they spent on 3 more months of development? Theres no way.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 31 août 2012 - 03:36 .

[ZombieGambit]

Hudathan wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

*snip*

If the developer had more ideas about the game that fall outside the alotted time, I don't see why they couldn't just say "hey we need more time to make this game as complete as possible". You think if Bioware asked the community if they would be willing to wait 3 more months in order to play a longer game that people would say no? Of course they wouldn't, because we as consumers expect the most out of our favorite companies.

So they had a year and 10 months to make this game and the DLC required more time? Then get the publisher to give them more time. That kind of effort is how you end up with products that stand out from the rest. In fact, don't release the game until you've exhausted all your good ideas and put it into one complete product. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

ME3 was going to be a huge release and it was hyped beyond reason. It's not some indie project where the developer is constantly restrained by budget limits and the like. There is no reason why they couldn't take the time to make it as good as possible at launch. Here's an idea: if there was really no way to bump back the development time because it's magically set in stone, then why didn't they release the DLC free of charge as a bonus for purchasing a brand new copy the way they did with Zaeed? If this content was quality enough to be released, then why aren't they eager to make sure everyone gets to experience it? Why nickle and dime people? 

You're assuming developers and publishers are charites and not actual for-profit businesses.

[CitizenThom]

Day 1 DLC is dumb if that DLC is something that is part of the main story arc. Just charge $69.99 if you really think you need to. People buy a game day one for the complete game. Having to buy the game in pieces on day one is simply annoying.

[GiarcYekrub]

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

Yeah I'm with you, I guess people like to get stuff for free, I mean alot of people had the cheek to demand that the EC that was never planned be a Dragon Age: Awakenings style expansion(for free). Some people need to realise that Developer need to eat.

Oh yeah and if a game makes money for EA thats not a bad thing as it'll mean more games will be made in the future and subsidises development on new ideas like Mirror Edge and Dead Space a few years ago. Every game is gamble, look at Sony Liverpool, Bizarre Creations, Core Design,Free Radical, Realtime Worlds, 38 Studios, etc.

[Twinzam.V]

Javik is in the game. The dlc only acts as a serial code input. In fact you can get Javik without the dlc, the only thing is that you dont do the mission to get him.
Capcom is a fine example of this method. Their games come out with several characters locked and you have to buy the dlc to unlock them. But they're already in the game.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 31 août 2012 - 10:06 .

[tomcplotts]

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

probably because it's a form of corporate theft and deceit. ashes wasn't an add on. it was plot essential and part of the original game. so they took it out and resold it to you. i'm from a generation and time that used to believe that constituted fraud.

they want to charge more for the game? then charge more. let the market decide. stop trying to lie and cheat your way from a 60 buck game to a 70 buck game.

Incidentally, this is also why I hate DLC (as opposed to expansion packs, which are not the same thing). Few things are worse than having your story split up over a long period of time and sold to you in installments. Make the bloody game, front to back, and sell it for what you think is a fair profit. that way you keep the iontegrity of the experience intact.

this is  one drawback to high speed internet. it encourages installments on game purchasing.

Modifié par tomcplotts, 31 août 2012 - 10:05 .

[Peranor]

 
I love day one DLC!
But only if it's from Bioware. Because Bioware can do no wrong. I will stalwartly defend every single one of their decisions whether or not it was a good decision to start with. Bioware is indefectible! When will you haters realize that?
If they do something you see as wrong, it's not because they are wrong. it's because you are wrong thinking they are wrong. So embrace the indoctrination and open your wallet. Let the dollars flow and pray for pre-launch DLC in the future.

[NS Wizdum]

tomcplotts wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

 It honestly doesn't bother me, I just want to know why other people feel this way. 

From Ashes was a nice add-on so I guess it depends on on the individual. 

probably because it's a form of corporate theft and deceit. ashes wasn't an add on. it was plot essential and part of the original game. so they took it out and resold it to you. i'm from a generation and time that used to believe that constituted fraud.

they want to charge more for the game? then charge more. let the market decide. stop trying to lie and cheat your way from a 60 buck game to a 70 buck game.

Incidentally, this is also why I hate DLC (as opposed to expansion packs, which are not the same thing). Few things are worse than having your story split up over a long period of time and sold to you in installments. Make the bloody game, front to back, and sell it for what you think is a fair profit. that way you keep the iontegrity of the experience intact.

this is  one drawback to high speed internet. it encourages installments on game purchasing.

Learn how game developers work. Also, you might want to tone down your "THE END IS NIGH!" speech.

[samftrmdfhl]

If it was a free DLC, maybe it won't be as bad. Or if it is a totally separated story, like it is totally optional gameplay like Pinnicle Station.
Javik is an important character, so if I did not get him, I feel I missed some story. Thus making people to pay day 1 DLC is cheap. I don't mind to pay more if they include it into the game, but selling it separately just sounds cheap.

[AxStapleton]

Sorry but I personally can't see how people can defend Day 1 DLCwhen most of it is on the disk. So in other words, if you buy a game, do you buy the rights to play it or is it completely and utterly yours? Surely you own the disk to do whatever you will with it within reason. I have nothing against the concept of DLC itself, it comes from PC on-disc expansions, but there comes a point where companies such as Capcom, Activision and EA just abuse it.

It was obvious that Javik's lines were recorded alongside all the other squadmates because he has conversations with other squadmates throughout the game and, as stated by others, a lot of the DLC was in fact already on the disc.

Modifié par AxStapleton, 31 août 2012 - 01:30 .

[GimmeDaGun]

From Ashes was awesome and I think a crucial part of the story (it seems that Bioware only releases dlc-s for this game which should have been in the game itself at the first place, due to their importance in the story and lore: From Ashes, EC, Leviathan). It's not the fact that it's a dlc which bothers people. Most would have forgiven Bioware for a day1 dlc if it was free of charge.

I mean, come on. It's obvious that Javik and his discovery in that brief mission on Eden Prime was meant to be in the main game, but they couldn't put it in there due to time restraints (hopefully it wasn't only a greedy business decision). Hell, even the original, leaked script contained Javik (even if it hadn't made him a permanent squad member at the time). So why make people pay for something that was obviously a part of the purchased product (and 10 dollars - while for a dlc like Leviathan is a reasonable price - it was too much for one single character and a very short mission) on the very day when the game itself is released? Lets not forget that a great part of the "dlc" was already on the disc!

That was ugly - thankfully I pre-ordered the collector's edition, so I got it "for free", so to speak. As for company-fanbase relations go, it was just one of the big mistakes that Bioware risked making with ME3... like releasing it with an incomplete ending (now with EC and Leviathan, it is all happy days for me... but still). So this is why the hate for From Ashes. Otherwise... Javik for the first emperor of the post-reaper galaxy!

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 31 août 2012 - 01:34 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Well, selling a Prothean as DLC, day-1 or not, is really ****ing stupid in itself, and the sole reason I won't buy anymore Bioware games on release.

We didn't have day-1 DLC a few years ago? Why has it suddenly become so damn important for developers?

[Xellith]

If they woulda said "Its day 1 dlc and its free for day 1. Every day after that you pay 10 dollars" then lots would have been fine with it. However - not releasing a FULL PRODUCT is a dick move. If they woulda said DLC isnt being released until day 2 then this wouldnt have been a problem.

The thing is that you expect a product to be sold COMPELTE on its day of release.