304 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

I agree conventional victory should have been possible given how utterly moronic the Reapers behaved in this game.

[George Costanza]

Yeah I would think conventional victory is doable. I mean, Leviathan killed a Reaper by looking at it funny and now it's on our side so surely that would mea.... oh no. Same old nonsense.

[LilyasAvalon]

Certainly feel a lot better than having a victory quite LITERALLY handed to me by Starbrat.

Seriously, I gathered all these forces, I wanna see them in action and kick some reaper butt.

[MegaSovereign]

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

[Mordak55]

Vigilant111 wrote...

I do not see how a conventional victory could rub anyone the wrong way, it is RPG, you choose your own path, how one's actions and consequences cannot possibly diminish the effects of other peoples' endings. 

I can t seehow me picking an ending that I like, invalidates anyone else's ending. as above if the option is there its up to the player to choose. I am sure many players have picked all the current endings at least once, more choice is a good thing. I pick refuse once just because I could. 

The arguement that none RGB endings is not possible, is not valid given that "Space Magic" is in the game, if the devs decide to put in another ending then they will, regardless of logic. 

Modifié par Mordak55, 05 septembre 2012 - 02:33 .

[KENNY4753]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

[MegaSovereign]

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

[ThaDPG]

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

That's if you just throw all your forces at them at once, in an all out head on assault, in which case, yes conventional victory is impossible.  But who's that dumb?  If they pull back and the military leaders from each race get together and formulate a plan, I'm pretty sure they could come up with a decent plan, especially considering they have the Leviathans on board now

[MegaSovereign]

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

That's if you just throw all your forces at them at once, in an all out head on assault, in which case, yes conventional victory is impossible.  But who's that dumb?  If they pull back and the military leaders from each race get together and formulate a plan, I'm pretty sure they could come up with a decent plan, especially considering they have the Leviathans on board now

The united galaxy only has a few hundred Dreadnaughts combined. No strategy can make up for the overwhelming force that is the Reapers.

Besides look at what strategies that most of the races usually use:

-Turians use overwhelming force, irrelevant against the Reapers
-Salarians like to end wars before they start. Irrelevant against the Reapers.
-Asari like to infiltrate. Irrelevant against the Reapers
-Krogan are ground troops. Will only slow the Reapers down considering they have virtually an unlimited amount of ground troops.
-The Quarians have a lot of ships that can do as much damage as a Dreadnaught but they lack the necessary armor for a sustained assault.
-Geth cyberwarfare programs are no where near as advanced as the Reapers.


They can't win. They can only slow them down at best. Bioware wrote the entire trilogy on the premise that the Reapers are an overwhelmingly powerful force and that the galaxy was not prepared for war with them. By saying that the Reapers should have been defeated conventionally, you're effectively headcanoning.

[ThaDPG]

MegaSovereign wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

That's if you just throw all your forces at them at once, in an all out head on assault, in which case, yes conventional victory is impossible.  But who's that dumb?  If they pull back and the military leaders from each race get together and formulate a plan, I'm pretty sure they could come up with a decent plan, especially considering they have the Leviathans on board now

The united galaxy only has a few hundred Dreadnaughts combined. No strategy can make up for the overwhelming force that is the Reapers.

Besides look at what strategies that most of the races usually use:

-Turians use overwhelming force, irrelevant against the Reapers
-Salarians like to end wars before they start. Irrelevant against the Reapers.
-Asari like to infiltrate. Irrelevant against the Reapers
-Krogan are ground troops. Will only slow the Reapers down considering they have virtually an unlimited amount of ground troops.
-The Quarians have a lot of ships that can do as much damage as a Dreadnaught but they lack the necessary armor for a sustained assault.
-Geth cyberwarfare programs are no where near as advanced as the Reapers.


They can't win. They can only slow them down at best. Bioware wrote the entire trilogy on the premise that the Reapers are an overwhelmingly powerful force and that the galaxy was not prepared for war with them. By saying that the Reapers should have been defeated conventionally, you're effectively headcanoning.

You have very good points, and if this was the real world, I would totally agree with you, but this is science fiction, Bioware can still write themselves out of this corner they've backed themselves into, via DLC or even an expansion.  Not saying it will be easy, but it's totally possible.

[Rommel49]

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

I've answered this previously, who says you need Dreadnoughts to do the job? The codex itself establishes that they're actually the worst way to deal with Reapers since they do their damage through kinetic energy (the thing Reaper shields work best against).

The codex entries and information available suggest, if not outright state that conventional victory is possible, let's go through the list:

The codex entry on Reaper Vulnerabilities states that defeating them is possible with the right weapons, strategy, etc.

If Geth/Quarian peace was achieved, the codex entry on the Battle of Rannoch states the Reapers may be unprepared to contend with both armadas.

The harvesting of Heshtok (the Vorcha homeworld) was going slowly, intelligence suggests that the Reapers were simply keeping the planet locked down so the Vorcha as a whole couldn't join the war effort, rather than actually trying to harvest the population.

Parnack (the Yahg homeworld) was avoided entirely by the Reapers, despite the fact we know that they're clearly capable of using and understanding modern technology and did have limited contact with Council races. As stated "Yahg have teeth".

The invasion of Illium was slowed to a crawl since they simply nuked the Reapers' transports in space, indeed, Illium never really suffered a large scale invasion as a result.

If the EMS score is high enough, Javik's first reading of the good Commander aboard the Normandy is "I sense more... confidence than fear. You believe you are winning" - emphasis mine. Not might win, but is winning.

None of the above suggest that conventional victory is impossible, far from it.

Modifié par Rommel49, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:35 .

[malakim2099]

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

This word you say, I do not think it means what most people are thinking it means.

To me, when I say I want a "conventional" victory. I mean, "Any victory that doesn't have me taking one of three choices from the omnipotent Leader of the Reapers."

EDI using her Reaper algorithms to hack into their systems? Fine. The geth using their new processing power to subvert the Reapers? Fine. The krogan using massive tractor beam systems to swing the Crucible like a giant sledgehammer to crush Reaper dreadnaughts? FINE! (And actually, pretty cool now that I think about it.)

But it doesn't mean a straight up military battle. I don't think it would, as that would be pretty far fetched. However, using normal 'unconventional' techniques combined with a straight-up battle? I think we can win that without the Catalyst's help.

[MegaSovereign]

Rommel49 wrote...

I've answered this previously, who says you need Dreadnoughts to do the job? The codex itself establishes that they're actually the worst way to deal with Reapers since they do their damage through kinetic energy (the thing Reaper shields work best against).

The codex entries and information available suggest, if not outright state that conventional victory is possible, let's go through the list:

The codex entry on Reaper Vulnerabilities states that defeating them is possible with the right weapons, strategy, etc.

If Geth/Quarian peace was achieved, the codex entry on the Battle of Rannoch states the Reapers may be unprepared to contend with both armadas.

The harvesting of Heshtok (the Vorcha homeworld) was going slowly, intelligence suggests that the Reapers were simply keeping the planet locked down so the Vorcha as a whole couldn't join the war effort, rather than actually trying to harvest the population.

Parknack (the Yahg homeworld) was avoided entirely by the Reapers, despite the fact we know that they're clearly capable of using and understanding modern technology and did have limited contact with Council races. As stated "Yahg have teeth".

The invasion of Illium was slowed to a crawl since they simply nuked the Reapers' transports in space, indeed, Illium never really fell.

If the EMS score is high enough, Javik's first reading of the good Commander aboard the Normandy is "I sense more... confidence than fear. You believe you are winning" - emphasis mine. Not might win, but is winning.

None of the above suggest that conventional victory is impossible, far from it.

Wow really? Most of your points shows instances of slowing the Reapers down or avoiding contact in general. None of which paints a picture of a probable conventional victory. The lore dictates the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. This isn't even up for debate.

BTW the "reading with Javik" is not tied to EMS score. It's tied to whether you choose the Paragon or Renegade response to his questions. The more Renegade you are, the more confident you sound.

This word you say, I do not think it means what most people are thinking it means.

To
me, when I say I want a "conventional" victory. I mean, "Any victory
that doesn't have me taking one of three choices from the omnipotent
Leader of the Reapers."

EDI using her Reaper algorithms to hack
into their systems? Fine. The geth using their new processing power to
subvert the Reapers? Fine. The krogan using massive tractor beam systems
to swing the Crucible like a giant sledgehammer to crush Reaper
dreadnaughts? FINE! (And actually, pretty cool now that I think about
it.)

But it doesn't mean a straight up military battle. I don't
think it would, as that would be pretty far fetched. However, using
normal 'unconventional' techniques combined with a straight-up battle? I
think we can win that without the Catalyst's help.

Okay, sooo they can't be defeated conventionally. That's what I was saying.

I know you're just joking about all those things you mention sound even stupider than the Crucible plot.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[Rommel49]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Wow really? Most of your points shows instances of slowing the Reapers down or avoiding contact in general. None of which paints a picture of a probable conventional victory. The lore dictates the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. This isn't even up for debate.

BTW the "reading with Javik" is not tied to EMS score. It's tied to whether you choose the Paragon or Renegade response to his questions. The more Renegade you are, the more confident you sound.

War entails keeping the enemy from achieving their objectives, even slowing them down does that. I've provided more than one piece of information stating that defeating the Reapers is flat-out possible.

On the reading with Javik, that's also patently false. It's directly tied to the EMS score. He gives that line regardless of whether Paragon/Renegade is chosen - I've tested it. The follow up and seperate "those who share my purpose become allies and those who do not become casualties" line is tied to Paragon/Renegade score based on your response, with his belief/disbelief at the answer being directly tied to those scores - e.g. Renegade score ain't high enough and say you're willing to do whatever it takes to win? He doesn't believe it.

Modifié par Rommel49, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:12 .

[CmdrStJean]

This has been bothering me for some time, and perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction. Just what is the actual evidence, in game, that the Reapers can not be defeated through any sort of conventional means, beyond someone simply saying its impossible? Someone quoted some hard figures on the number of Reapers forces (for example) where did that come from? A Reaper Census? The only past instances or information regarding war of this type come from cycles in which the rules of engagement were vastly different. I'll also point out that despite the losses suffered by the various races as a result of the initial Reaper incursion; no one had actually taken any affirmative steps to prepare for what was coming. If Illium could slow the harvesting process to a crawl by simply nuking every Reaper transport, that seems to indicate at least some means of dealing with that aspect of the problem.

At any rate, I simply would like some clarity on the subject. I don't see any reason to believe that the Reapers are actually invincible against anything but the most exotic of countermeasures. And, from what I can tell, little to nothing "creative" shall we say has been used against the Reapers in this cycle or any past cycle. Who knows what particular strategies might be effective at this point - that don't involve a literal doomsday device. Surely there's enough speculations for everyone here to come up with something other than "it can't be done."

[Rommel49]

CmdrStJean wrote...

This has been bothering me for some time, and perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction. Just what is the actual evidence, in game, that the Reapers can not be defeated through any sort of conventional means, beyond someone simply saying its impossible? Someone quoted some hard figures on the number of Reapers forces (for example) where did that come from? A Reaper Census? The only past instances or information regarding war of this type come from cycles in which the rules of engagement were vastly different. I'll also point out that despite the losses suffered by the various races as a result of the initial Reaper incursion; no one had actually taken any affirmative steps to prepare for what was coming. If Illium could slow the harvesting process to a crawl by simply nuking every Reaper transport, that seems to indicate at least some means of dealing with that aspect of the problem.

At any rate, I simply would like some clarity on the subject. I don't see any reason to believe that the Reapers are actually invincible against anything but the most exotic of countermeasures. And, from what I can tell, little to nothing "creative" shall we say has been used against the Reapers in this cycle or any past cycle. Who knows what particular strategies might be effective at this point - that don't involve a literal doomsday device. Surely there's enough speculations for everyone here to come up with something other than "it can't be done."

Pretty much my view of it, since looking at the available information in its entirety. For example, we know the Reapers didn't defeat the Prothean Empire in a straight-up fight - the Reapers did their usual routine of taking the Citadel in a surprise attack right out of the gate and shut down the relay network, which kept the Protheans isolated from one another - they couldn't present a united front, Javik basically says as much.

When asked why his cycle lost the war, Javik tells us the subserviant races of the Empire became divided and confused as a result of relying upon a single strategy and doctrine, basically they lost cohesion. He even says that the fact that the races of the current cycle cooperate while maintaining their diversity may be the only hope.

One notable thing, he specifically mentions he has no faith in the Crucible; "it was supposed to be our miracle... I put no faith it".

[ThaDPG]

Rommel49 wrote...

CmdrStJean wrote...

This has been bothering me for some time, and perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction. Just what is the actual evidence, in game, that the Reapers can not be defeated through any sort of conventional means, beyond someone simply saying its impossible? Someone quoted some hard figures on the number of Reapers forces (for example) where did that come from? A Reaper Census? The only past instances or information regarding war of this type come from cycles in which the rules of engagement were vastly different. I'll also point out that despite the losses suffered by the various races as a result of the initial Reaper incursion; no one had actually taken any affirmative steps to prepare for what was coming. If Illium could slow the harvesting process to a crawl by simply nuking every Reaper transport, that seems to indicate at least some means of dealing with that aspect of the problem.

At any rate, I simply would like some clarity on the subject. I don't see any reason to believe that the Reapers are actually invincible against anything but the most exotic of countermeasures. And, from what I can tell, little to nothing "creative" shall we say has been used against the Reapers in this cycle or any past cycle. Who knows what particular strategies might be effective at this point - that don't involve a literal doomsday device. Surely there's enough speculations for everyone here to come up with something other than "it can't be done."

Pretty much my view of it, since looking at the available information in its entirety. For example, we know the Reapers didn't defeat the Prothean Empire in a straight-up fight - the Reapers did their usual routine of taking the Citadel in a surprise attack right out of the gate and shut down the relay network, which kept the Protheans isolated from one another - they couldn't present a united front, Javik basically says as much.

When asked why his cycle lost the war, Javik tells us the subserviant races of the Empire became divided and confused as a result of relying upon a single strategy and doctrine, basically they lost cohesion. He even says that the fact that the races of the current cycle cooperate while maintaining their diversity may be the only hope.

One notable thing, he specifically mentions he has no faith in the Crucible; "it was supposed to be our miracle... I put no faith it".

I agree, the Reapers don't seem very adaptable at all.  A straight up, head to head fight with them would be suicide, but why would we do that knowing what we know already?  Was it ever stated anywhere that Shepard's cycle is the first to have a totally united galaxy(willingly united, not like the Protheans)?  Have the Reapers ever had to deal with that before?

[SnakeSNMF]

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

That's if you just throw all your forces at them at once, in an all out head on assault, in which case, yes conventional victory is impossible.  But who's that dumb?  If they pull back and the military leaders from each race get together and formulate a plan, I'm pretty sure they could come up with a decent plan, especially considering they have the Leviathans on board now

The united galaxy only has a few hundred Dreadnaughts combined. No strategy can make up for the overwhelming force that is the Reapers.

Besides look at what strategies that most of the races usually use:

-Turians use overwhelming force, irrelevant against the Reapers
-Salarians like to end wars before they start. Irrelevant against the Reapers.
-Asari like to infiltrate. Irrelevant against the Reapers
-Krogan are ground troops. Will only slow the Reapers down considering they have virtually an unlimited amount of ground troops.
-The Quarians have a lot of ships that can do as much damage as a Dreadnaught but they lack the necessary armor for a sustained assault.
-Geth cyberwarfare programs are no where near as advanced as the Reapers.


They can't win. They can only slow them down at best. Bioware wrote the entire trilogy on the premise that the Reapers are an overwhelmingly powerful force and that the galaxy was not prepared for war with them. By saying that the Reapers should have been defeated conventionally, you're effectively headcanoning.

You have very good points, and if this was the real world, I would totally agree with you, but this is science fiction, Bioware can still write themselves out of this corner they've backed themselves into, via DLC or even an expansion.  Not saying it will be easy, but it's totally possible.

I just want to simply refute, have you seen the Reaper's ****ing guns?
Nobody has the armor to stand against them. Only speed and weapons. Which the Quarians have upgraded their ships to deal damage, to -deal- damage and -stand- against the Geth, not to prepare for the Reapers themselves, nobody can prepare a ship unless they stripped armor from Relays and put them onto the ships themselves, and that's impossible.

Now, yes, you can put weapons on a ship to deal as much damage as it can.
Geth cyberwarfare suite has no effect on the damage of their weapons, that's simply lunacy and retarded to say so.
And if you want that point? It -can- be upgraded.
Not only that, but the Quarian and Geth -can- be together.
50,000 ships, along with the Geth's 44 (assumed from Codex information) dreadnoughts and the front of their godly amount of ships of which is said so in the codex. Their ships are extensively powerful. They outmatch anything in the Alliance fleet.

So that's why with them both combined at the war at Earth, they're such an effective force of nature together.
Even though that's a retarded strategy, it's apparently the only one thought up of, and with the firepower that the combined Fleets have, it'd be enough to stand up to the amount of Reapers at Earth.

Then there's the Batarians last fleet, the Asari fleet, the Alliance fleet, the given Volus dreadnought and the remnants of it's fleet, the Hanar/Drell fleet, the Terminus fleets, the Salarian fleets, the Turian fleets, (which is still the largest behind the Geth and Quarian, and very, very, powerful) And then others of which I have forgot to post here as well.

The point is, there's a lot of ships. If used correctly, even with that assumed amount of Reapers, (Bioware never posted a specific amount, because they -want- speculation.) that it's simply benign. Due to math, but it can also be proved that the number is between 100 for Reaper capital ships to, well, that amount of which you posted. There is a lot, but nothing that if used in the right mind and correctly, (like what was used at the battle of Palaven) then there is that.


It would be difficult, it would take time, but there is the time and resources and planning to do it with, and we have the resources to win the war with, ultimately. 

[ThaDPG]

SnakeSNMF wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

KENNY4753 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Good luck defeating ~20,000 Reaper capitals and 100,000+ Destroyers conventionally.

As Grunt once said 

What you need is 4 Dreadnaughts for every Reaper capital because that's how much it takes to defeat one. 80,000 Dreadnaughts for you to even have a chance at defeating them conventionally.

That's if you just throw all your forces at them at once, in an all out head on assault, in which case, yes conventional victory is impossible.  But who's that dumb?  If they pull back and the military leaders from each race get together and formulate a plan, I'm pretty sure they could come up with a decent plan, especially considering they have the Leviathans on board now

The united galaxy only has a few hundred Dreadnaughts combined. No strategy can make up for the overwhelming force that is the Reapers.

Besides look at what strategies that most of the races usually use:

-Turians use overwhelming force, irrelevant against the Reapers
-Salarians like to end wars before they start. Irrelevant against the Reapers.
-Asari like to infiltrate. Irrelevant against the Reapers
-Krogan are ground troops. Will only slow the Reapers down considering they have virtually an unlimited amount of ground troops.
-The Quarians have a lot of ships that can do as much damage as a Dreadnaught but they lack the necessary armor for a sustained assault.
-Geth cyberwarfare programs are no where near as advanced as the Reapers.


They can't win. They can only slow them down at best. Bioware wrote the entire trilogy on the premise that the Reapers are an overwhelmingly powerful force and that the galaxy was not prepared for war with them. By saying that the Reapers should have been defeated conventionally, you're effectively headcanoning.

You have very good points, and if this was the real world, I would totally agree with you, but this is science fiction, Bioware can still write themselves out of this corner they've backed themselves into, via DLC or even an expansion.  Not saying it will be easy, but it's totally possible.

I just want to simply refute, have you seen the Reaper's ****ing guns?
Nobody has the armor to stand against them. Only speed and weapons. Which the Quarians have upgraded their ships to deal damage, to -deal- damage and -stand- against the Geth, not to prepare for the Reapers themselves, nobody can prepare a ship unless they stripped armor from Relays and put them onto the ships themselves, and that's impossible.

Now, yes, you can put weapons on a ship to deal as much damage as it can.
Geth cyberwarfare suite has no effect on the damage of their weapons, that's simply lunacy and retarded to say so.
And if you want that point? It -can- be upgraded.
Not only that, but the Quarian and Geth -can- be together.
50,000 ships, along with the Geth's 44 (assumed from Codex information) dreadnoughts and the front of their godly amount of ships of which is said so in the codex. Their ships are extensively powerful. They outmatch anything in the Alliance fleet.

So that's why with them both combined at the war at Earth, they're such an effective force of nature together.
Even though that's a retarded strategy, it's apparently the only one thought up of, and with the firepower that the combined Fleets have, it'd be enough to stand up to the amount of Reapers at Earth.

Then there's the Batarians last fleet, the Asari fleet, the Alliance fleet, the given Volus dreadnought and the remnants of it's fleet, the Hanar/Drell fleet, the Terminus fleets, the Salarian fleets, the Turian fleets, (which is still the largest behind the Geth and Quarian, and very, very, powerful) And then others of which I have forgot to post here as well.

The point is, there's a lot of ships. If used correctly, even with that assumed amount of Reapers, (Bioware never posted a specific amount, because they -want- speculation.) that it's simply benign. Due to math, but it can also be proved that the number is between 100 for Reaper capital ships to, well, that amount of which you posted. There is a lot, but nothing that if used in the right mind and correctly, (like what was used at the battle of Palaven) then there is that.


It would be difficult, it would take time, but there is the time and resources and planning to do it with, and we have the resources to win the war with, ultimately. 

Didn't Javik say that it took the Reapers centuries to totally defeat the Protheans?  And that was them by themselves with their "subservient races".  Shepard's cycle has all the greatest military minds willingly working together, so I'm pretty sure with all those strategies, plus all the resources at their disposal, this cycle has a fighting chance.  Imagine Krogan, Batarians, Vorcha, and Rachni tearing it up on the ground with Geth Collossus's backing them up, and the Human, Turian, Asari, and Leviathans taking it to them in the skies.  Then they could have the Geth working to repair ships and weapons, day and night, since they don't require food or rest.  This cycle still has alot of room to fight. 

[Rommel49]

ThaDPG wrote...

I agree, the Reapers don't seem very adaptable at all.  A straight up, head to head fight with them would be suicide, but why would we do that knowing what we know already?  Was it ever stated anywhere that Shepard's cycle is the first to have a totally united galaxy(willingly united, not like the Protheans)?  Have the Reapers ever had to deal with that before?

We can pretty much infer that the current cycle was the only one that was ever capable of truly presenting a united front.

It's important to remember that the Reapers built the relay network to speed up the cycles; the network didn't exist in the earliest cycles, even if the organic life in the galaxy was willing to unite, it was never capable of it prior to the construction of the relay network. Considering the Prothean cycle was the one that produced countermeasures to keep the Reapers from being able to remotely control the Citadel (the hub of the network), by definition that implies that not only was the current cycle the only one that didn't just have the willingness to unite, but the ability to do so.

[SnakeSNMF]

Yes. I can imagine Rachni being moreso put together to create their advanced ships as opposed to anything else, and a fraction of Geth put together on construction and repairing ships and manning abandoned ships with platforms to get as many ships as possible to use in the battle.

Ultimately, when it comes down to it. it comes down to the amounts of ships with the biggest guns in the fight and the manuvering used. With the Rachni and Geth together, they can create some of the strongest weapons in Citadel space, as well as the fastest, on their ships. Geth would have so many uses in the war, that's why they're so great. Rachni as well.

Overall, the idea is; we want to see our war-assets matter.
Leviathan possessing Reapers themselves and then turning the fire onto other Reapers is what would make for a good counter-attack, and make it so much easier. That's just one battle, and there are so many semantics involved in this argument that any refute makes no sense, outside of the facts we have, which seem to prove forward towards a point that conventinal warfare is a possible estmate for how the war itself could end.

[ThaDPG]

Rommel49 wrote...

ThaDPG wrote...

I agree, the Reapers don't seem very adaptable at all.  A straight up, head to head fight with them would be suicide, but why would we do that knowing what we know already?  Was it ever stated anywhere that Shepard's cycle is the first to have a totally united galaxy(willingly united, not like the Protheans)?  Have the Reapers ever had to deal with that before?

We can pretty much infer that the current cycle was the only one that was ever capable of truly presenting a united front.

It's important to remember that the Reapers built the relay network to speed up the cycles; the network didn't exist in the earliest cycles, even if the organic life in the galaxy was willing to unite, it was never capable of it prior to the construction of the relay network. Considering the Prothean cycle was the one that produced countermeasures to keep the Reapers from being able to remotely control the Citadel (the hub of the network), by definition that implies that not only was the current cycle the only one that didn't just have the willingness to unite, but the ability to do so.

And that leads me to believe that the Reapers know that an all out assault against a united front(in this case, all the advanced sentient races in the galaxy) who are also expecting them, would be suicide for them, which is why in previous cycles the Reapers always went for the Citadel first, so that that they could shut down the relay network, and cut everyone off from each other.  It really looks like the Reapers know they're not as invulnerable as they make themselves seem

[Ozida]

Ok, I have a question for everybody who is against conventional victory idea:

How many of you would be actually upset if ME3 originally ended with a movie clip of all your war assets fighting against Reapers and, based on your EMS, wining the battle with a triumph? Honestly, how many people would come here and complain for months about ending like that? How many would feel that it was too predictable and cliché? How many would call this game "worst of the series" and how many would actually spend hours debating that Reapers are unstoppable and that was a terrible ending? I mean, really, people, you think this is such a bad idea compairing to Crucible/ Catalyst plot?

[ioannisdenton]

it won't happen and imo it should not. Whole mass effect counters the idea that reapers can be fought conventonally. Even in ME1 Sovereign was so much hard to kill. this is not disney nor lord of the rings nor dragon age where Unity prevails.
Besides that the crucible is main theme in Me3

[SnakeSNMF]

ioannisdenton wrote...

it won't happen and imo it should not. Whole mass effect counters the idea that reapers can be fought conventonally. Even in ME1 Sovereign was so much hard to kill. this is not disney nor lord of the rings nor dragon age where Unity prevails.
Besides that the crucible is main theme in Me3

Bioware admitted that was because of teams being unresponsive to eachother, so that's a weak argument, especially considering in ME3 how we've killed larger Reaper ships with less forces. it takes concentrated fire.