152 réponses à ce sujet

[Justin2k]

There are so many questions on this forum, so many people asking why they re-used the same three maps over and over in DA2.  Why the Mass Effect ending was bad.  Why TOR classes are unbalanced.  Why Gears was inspiration for ME3 and not ME1/ME2.  Why Skyrim is inspiration for DA3 and not DA:O.

It's because Bioware don't make great games anymore.  It's also because they've become a money grabbing company.   They do not care about this "hardcore" fanbase.  You're the ones that buy all their games and all the DLC, but they'll throw you under a bus to get just 10 more people casually playing their games as long as they pay for it. 

And as a result, Bioware don't make great games anymore.  They try to please everyone, and end up with an average product that everyone is mostly ok with but noone would vote for it to be GOTY.  Too much shooting for RPG'ers, too much talking for Gears of War players.

Worse than that they've become a horrible company.  The moderators are lock and ban happy because they can't take the slightest criticism.  The "we want your feedback" is a lie.  They want it as long as it's positive and they can use it to make more money.   All this "artistic direction" is bull****.  And what it really means is "we don't care what you want".  They are pretentious, Mass Effect 3 is pretentious and DA2 is pretentious.  I won't give this company money anymore.

Oh and as for "companys are there to make money" of course they are.  But they made money with KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, DA:O.  I guess it wasn't enough.   ME3 was a "labour of love"?  Well your labour of love was ****.  Skyrim, Dark Souls, Assassin's creed are labours of love.  ME3 was a cash grab exercise. 

[Gruntburner]

I was going to put in a snarky and witty response, but I just too tired right now, so I will just say this: that is your opinion. I disagree with nearly every aspect of it. I love the games Bioware makes and I love ME3. Nothing you or anyone on these forums are going to change that, just like how I know I could never change you mind.

[Shelondias]

Well by your own argument they won't care that your money won't be coming to them with 10 more 'casuals' waiting to buy their stuff when you leave.
Mass Effect 3 is one of the best narratives I ever crammed into my computer and so was DA2.
I've also seen plenty of criticism on these boards that only got locked when trolls and ragers invaded to spam and derail.

[Jade Elf]

Gruntburner wrote...

I was going to put in a snarky and witty response, but I just too tired right now, so I will just say this: that is your opinion. I disagree with nearly every aspect of it. I love the games Bioware makes and I love ME3. Nothing you or anyone on these forums are going to change that, just like how I know I could never change you mind.

Same here. And I'll leave it at that.

[Rogue Unit]

Doesn't make great games anymore.

But I agree. I wouldn't call their games terrible, but they have been lackluster lately.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 31 août 2012 - 05:07 .

[Abraham_uk]

This thread could have been a an interesting series of constructive criticisms.

Lots of negative threads here actually give useful advice.

People have talked about

More exploration
Changing the endings
More dialogue options
Removing auto dialogue
Pointing out where the plot holes are
Indoctrination theory
etc

This thread is simply "I HATE YOU BIOWARE"

So you can point out flaws and suggest improvements on the forums
Or decide that Bioware doesn't make games for you anymore.

Furthermore, if your goal is to sabotage Bioware, you can do so by not purchassing anything that comes out from the company.

This thread doesn't contribute anything useful. It is spam. Nothing but spam.

[Solaxe]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Doesn't make great games anymore.

I think Justin2k was talking about Bioware as "they"

[Justin2k]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Doesn't make great games anymore.

But I agree. I wouldn't call their games terrible, but they have been lackluster lately.

No.  I'm English.  The proper use of the phrase is Do not (rather than does not) and don't is a perfectly acceptable way of saying that.  Perhaps it is different in America.

[jsamlaw]

Yet, you're still spending your free time posting on their forums.

[DOYOURLABS]

 Please enjoy this rebuttal 

But it in all seriousness BioWare makes great games, it's just a matter of opinion. 

[Justin2k]

jsamlaw wrote...

Yet, you're still spending your free time posting on their forums.

I was.  Not anymore.  If you want to choke on synthetics kill organics because organics are bad people for the next 8 months in DLC, and if you want to be forced to make things up in your head so the endings to their games make sense then be my guest but I'm done with this pretentious company and these pretentious moderators. 

Modifié par Justin2k, 31 août 2012 - 05:13 .

[Abraham_uk]

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.
I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

[Rogue Unit]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

 Please enjoy this rebuttal 

But it in all seriousness BioWare makes great games, it's just a matter of opinion. 

Funny thing is, in the comments section someone posted "My reaction to everything ME3 related." And got a few thumbs up.

[BatmanPWNS]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.
I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

-Better side missions which aren't just shooter/mp misison. Come on, it's an action RPG.
-Less fetch quest.
-A much improved journal. In fact, just use ME1/2 journal.

The little things count.

[Justin2k]

I think linking to American Wrestling tells more about the person linking it than the person it is directed at lol. People still watch that?

[DOYOURLABS]

Justin2k wrote...

I think linking to American Wrestling tells more about the person linking it than the person it is directed at lol. People still watch that?

To be honest I just have a playlist of videos to be used as replies in threads, I've never watched wrestling.

Enjoy some more! 

In response to the OP[/code]
In response to your reply[/code]
And in conclusion[/code]
I just learned how to do this on BB Code so I'm enjoying this. 

But since I need to make this relevant to the thread, I've talked to the devs in person at cons. DA2 had recycled maps because it was either that or cut quests. Mr. Laidlaw is one of the nicest people I've met. So is "evil" Mr. Priestly. 

They ban and lock verbal harrasment like your thread, not constructive criticism. I've talk to Jessica Merizan and every dev I've seen at the various cons I go to, they are all very aware of our criticism and EC proves they want to work with us. They can't change the ending's core plot because that would be destructive for the entertainment industry in general.

As for "having too much shooting for RPG'ers", RPG= role playing game. You get to choose responses, therefore its an RPG. Being an "RPG'er" has nothing to do with combat mechanics.

ME3 was my favorite game of all time, Mass Effect being nearly my favorite anything of all time. So take that as you will.

[Abraham_uk]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.
I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

-Better side missions which aren't just shooter/mp misison. Come on, it's an action RPG.
-Less fetch quest.
-A much improved journal. In fact, just use ME1/2 journal.

The little things count.

• I'll admit. I loved the scanning mini-game.
  
  
• But nearly everything on the Citadel was just a series of chores.
  I only liked three of the sidequests. You can guess what the three are.
  
  
• I wasn't a fan of the the multiplayer side missions.
  
  
• But the side missions with past squadmates were fun.
  
  
• The best parts were the two big story arcs where decisions from Mass Effect 1 & 2 affected the outcome.
  Some tough choices and interesting dilemmas.
  
• Great interactions between squadmates.
  
• Banter. I loved the banter during missions.
  
• Great memorable characters, both squadmates and NPC's. Eventhough a great deal of dialogue was auto dialogue, I really did enjoy these well scripted interactions.
  
• Great voice acting. Aside from a couple of slip ups. STEEEEEEVE!
  
• I love all the powers. Tech, biotic and combat powers work well. I love the combos. Powers have better synergy. They also prevent Mass Effect's combat from being another boring cover shooter.
  
• Great gun variety. Mass Effect had a lot of guns, but little variety in with lots of guns that were similiar. Mass Effect 2, had a few varieties and had those loathesome weapon restrictions. Mass Effect 3 had a plethora of guns available to all classes. Just fantastic.
  
• classes are more versatile, whilst still having their own identity.
  
• Also there was one main story on the citadel which I won't spoil.
  
• Mass Effect 3 had some great moments. Without the poor endings, it would have been a really good game. Not a good RPG, but a really good action game, with a fun story and great characters.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 31 août 2012 - 08:52 .

[Justin2k]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Mr. Laidlaw is one of the nicest people I've met. 

The same man that went to the media to tell the fans that we were wrong for liking Dragon Age1 more than his Dragon Age 2, and that his game was epic but we just weren't able to comprehend it's epicness?  Really?  Mac Walters and his "artistic integrity" was a similar message.

The truth is, Bioware had great writers.  Brent on Dragon Age.  Drew on Mass Effect.  They replaced them with Mac Walters and Mike Laidlaw.

The result.  Terrible sequels (albeit average-above average games).  I don't have any problem with that.

I DO have a problem with them telling me I'm wrong for liking the originals better and that I just don't "get" their art.  Sorry, your game sucks in comparison to the ones you made unfaithful sequels to.

[Abraham_uk]

Justin2k wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Mr. Laidlaw is one of the nicest people I've met. 

The same man that went to the media to tell the fans that we were wrong for liking Dragon Age1 more than his Dragon Age 2, and that his game was epic but we just weren't able to comprehend it's epicness?  Really?  Mac Walters and his "artistic integrity" was a similar message.

The truth is, Bioware had great writers.  Brent on Dragon Age.  Drew on Mass Effect.  They replaced them with Mac Walters and Mike Laidlaw.

The result.  Terrible sequels (albeit average-above average games).  I don't have any problem with that.

I DO have a problem with them telling me I'm wrong for liking the originals better and that I just don't "get" their art.  Sorry, your game sucks in comparison to the ones you made unfaithful sequels to.

Please can you list things you don't like about these sequels rather than just saying that you don't like them?

[Snypy]

Justin2k wrote...

There are so many questions on this forum, so many people asking why they re-used the same three maps over and over in DA2.  Why the Mass Effect ending was bad.  Why TOR classes are unbalanced.  Why Gears was inspiration for ME3 and not ME1/ME2.  Why Skyrim is inspiration for DA3 and not DA:O.

It's because Bioware don't make great games anymore.  It's also because they've become a money grabbing company.   They do not care about this "hardcore" fanbase.  You're the ones that buy all their games and all the DLC, but they'll throw you under a bus to get just 10 more people casually playing their games as long as they pay for it. 

And as a result, Bioware don't make great games anymore.  They try to please everyone, and end up with an average product that everyone is mostly ok with but noone would vote for it to be GOTY.  Too much shooting for RPG'ers, too much talking for Gears of War players.

Worse than that they've become a horrible company.  The moderators are lock and ban happy because they can't take the slightest criticism.  The "we want your feedback" is a lie.  They want it as long as it's positive and they can use it to make more money.   All this "artistic direction" is bull****.  And what it really means is "we don't care what you want".  They are pretentious, Mass Effect 3 is pretentious and DA2 is pretentious.  I won't give this company money anymore.

Oh and as for "companys are there to make money" of course they are.  But they made money with KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, DA:O.  I guess it wasn't enough.   ME3 was a "labour of love"?  Well your labour of love was ****.  Skyrim, Dark Souls, Assassin's creed are labours of love.  ME3 was a cash grab exercise. 

I think that BioWare did the best it could with ME3. Remember, they had only 2 years to develop the game. EA set the deadline, so you should blame them.

The truth is, Bioware had great writers.  Brent on Dragon Age.  Drew on Mass Effect.  They replaced them with Mac Walters and Mike Laidlaw.

Drew decided to leave so that he can work on his books. BioWare didn't fire him.

Modifié par Snypy, 31 août 2012 - 05:55 .

[Abraham_uk]

BatmanPWNS wrote...


-Better side missions which aren't just shooter/mp misison. Come on, it's an action RPG.
-Less fetch quest.
-A much improved journal. In fact, just use ME1/2 journal.

The little things count.

Thank you for bringing this thread in to useful territory.

[DOYOURLABS]

Justin2k wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Mr. Laidlaw is one of the nicest people I've met. 

The same man that went to the media to tell the fans that we were wrong for liking Dragon Age1 more than his Dragon Age 2, and that his game was epic but we just weren't able to comprehend it's epicness?  Really?  Mac Walters and his "artistic integrity" was a similar message.

The truth is, Bioware had great writers.  Brent on Dragon Age.  Drew on Mass Effect.  They replaced them with Mac Walters and Mike Laidlaw.

The result.  Terrible sequels (albeit average-above average games).  I don't have any problem with that.

I DO have a problem with them telling me I'm wrong for liking the originals better and that I just don't "get" their art.  Sorry, your game sucks in comparison to the ones you made unfaithful sequels to.

I'm fairly certain you made the first part up, I'd like a link to proof otherwise. Every interview I've seen is them saying they tried new things and their core fans didn't like the new direction. The artistic integrity nonsense, they said "they stood by the endings" but then gave us free DLC. 

Drew retired, he wasn't fired. DA1 had a generic story to me. "Ancient demon evil that will take over the word" is the plot of nearly every fantasy story. 

[DOYOURLABS]

Snypy wrote...
EA set the deadline, so you should blame them.

This is usually what it comes to. EA gives them a budget and deadline, BioWare does it's best to do as much awesome with their resources as they can. 

[Justin2k]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Please can you list things you don't like about these sequels rather than just saying that you don't like them?

Sure.  Firstly they aren't even the same genre of game.  Mass Effect  and Dragon Age were RPGs.  Mass Effect 3 is a shooter with cutscenes and a small hub.  Dragon Age 2 was even more unfaithful, it went from the kind of detailed combat system you see in MMO's to the kind of combat in Dynasty Warriors.   Difficulty level didn't affect the enemies difficulty.  It just meant you got more waves and would spend so long in boring dynasty warriors combat that it wasn't worth it. 

Secondly neither faithfully carried on the story.  The reapers were established as a race of sentinent starships that wanted to wipe out the galaxy.  Now, they have concentration camps and will treat you better if you're a good prisoner.  Dragon Age, they completely changed everything about an entire race from look to history so as to sex them up.

Then you've got sidequests.  Was it 4? 5 maps in dragon age?  Reused over and over again.   As someone said, more zones would have meant less sidequests.  Well almost every sidequest was stupid and redundant, so more zones please.  The game was almost unplayable, every dungeon the exact same map.  Not even looking the same, it was the same, same pathway every time.

If you play the N7 Missions in ME1 and ME2, theres a lot of variation.  Help a crashed quarian ship.  Land on an ancient starship.  Protect colonies from missile attack.  N7 missions in ME3?  Reused multiplayer maps and any "story" was "hold this spot for 2 minutes..." whatever.  

I could go on and on.  The truth is neither game was anywhere near as good as what came before.  I don't object to that.  I object to them telling me I'm wrong, and to not listening to valid criticism from their long time fanbase.

[Justin2k]

Snypy wrote...

The truth is, Bioware had great writers.  Brent on Dragon Age.  Drew on Mass Effect.  They replaced them with Mac Walters and Mike Laidlaw.

Drew decided to leave so that he can work on his books. BioWare didn't fire him.

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

Modifié par Justin2k, 31 août 2012 - 06:04 .