152 réponses à ce sujet

[Gogzilla]

Gruntburner wrote...

I was going to put in a snarky and witty response, but I just too tired right now, so I will just say this: that is your opinion. I disagree with nearly every aspect of it. I love the games Bioware makes and I love ME3. Nothing you or anyone on these forums are going to change that, just like how I know I could never change you mind.

This

[Snypy]

Justin2k wrote...

...

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

I don't really know if he was moved or if he wanted to work on SWTOR instead, so I can't and don't want to argue with you. However, I read his blog, and the ending he originally intended for ME3 was even worse than what Mac Walters came up with. That said, Drew would've probably given us several endings as well. So, one of them might've been very good.

[Justin2k]

Snypy wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

...

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

I don't really know if he was moved or if he wanted to work on SWTOR instead, so I can't and don't want to argue with you. However, I read his blog, and the ending he originally intended for ME3 was even worse than what Mac Walters came up with. That said, Drew would've probably given us several endings as well. So, one of them might've been very good.

The ending wasn't the only issue with ME3 writing though.  The whole Reaper war was clearly misunderstood by the new writer.  This was a Science fiction story about a race of sentinent starships and the struggles of humanity to be accepted in the galaxy.  This Walters guy just got fixated on synthetics organics yadda yadda.  The writing was off all the way through, not just the ending.

Modifié par Justin2k, 31 août 2012 - 06:19 .

[-Skorpious-]

Snypy wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

...

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

I don't really know if he was moved or if he wanted to work on SWTOR instead, so I can't and don't want to argue with you. However, I read his blog, and the ending he originally intended for ME3 was even worse than what Mac Walters came up with. That said, Drew would've probably given us several endings as well. So, one of them might've been very good.

In his defense, he said it was a very early concept. 

Anyways, a lot of the flak BioWare has received lately, while deserving, would diminish greatly if the company were more humble and apolegetic about this whole situation. 

[Justin2k]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Snypy wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

...

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

I don't really know if he was moved or if he wanted to work on SWTOR instead, so I can't and don't want to argue with you. However, I read his blog, and the ending he originally intended for ME3 was even worse than what Mac Walters came up with. That said, Drew would've probably given us several endings as well. So, one of them might've been very good.

In his defense, he said it was a very early concept. 

Anyways, a lot of the flak BioWare has received lately, while deserving, would diminish greatly if the company were more humble and apolegetic about this whole situation. 

Exactly.  They were exactly the same with DA2, arrogant would be the word.

As for Drew's "ending".  Was it really Drews ending?  Or is it something he wrote so that people would lay off his former employers a little more, or stop saying "drew would do it better"?   I have faith that whatever he wrote, he would have implemented it in a way that didn't offend the fanbase.  

Moving the lead writer of ME3 and putting it in the hands of a rookie writer who never had a single thing good enough to be published, to put him on the MMO just another example of cash-grabbing Bioware sacrificing quality and reputation for short term profit.

[Ryumanjisen]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.

I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

I'll try to add my 2 cents about some of these statements:

-War assets were not represented in the final mission
This is true to some extented. They have an impact, albeit small, on the ending you get (we are talking about pre-extended cut here). 
-The lack of a final boss
That's precisely, in my humble opinion, one of the best moves Bioware ever made. What did you expect, a final battle against the all powerful Harbinger to save the galaxy and the day? For once, Bioware didn't took the easy way and did a surprising and original move: no ending boss. Brilliant.
-Lack of planet exploration
And I'm very thankful for that. I'm fighting a race of sentient machines who want to wipe out all life in the galaxy. No time for explore little planets, I am afraid. That's the part I hated most in ME 1: exploration. I am a hero, not a goddamn scout.
-Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences. 
True indeed. But having all countless decisions in all past mass effects have real consequences is impossible. We are talking about too many variables...and the games has to follow a script, after all.
-Auto dialogue
I'm intrigued. What do you mean by "auto dialogue"...cause I'm pretty sure I chose all my Shepard's dialogue options.
-I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings. 
That's your opinion. I actually like the "Star Child" and the endings, even before the extended cut.

Modifié par Ryumanjisen, 31 août 2012 - 06:31 .

[Coreniro]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.
I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

1. Not important. The multitude becomes one, it's the principle behind the idea of the crucible... and, way to many assets to be shown in a 2-dvd game (think about how big hd-textures for pc are. Everything is a burden in this generation)
2. Better this way. It would feel weird to fight the illusive man with weapons. And reapers are too big, and too many. and final bosses were old in the 2000's
3. It wouldn't make sense during a war. By the way, there are less but more meaningful "new areas" to see.
4. They have consequences. not the way you'd like.
5. Bioware are new to third person shooters. They've made isometrical pseudo-real time rpgs until Mass Effect. Next-gen will be better.
6. A big war is going on, you must take a stance. Otherwise, you'll end up hating yourself for making no choice.
7. People keep on focusing on the image of the kid. It was clear, even before the EC, that the kid represented more than just a scared child. And even if it was just a kid, what's the problem? do you all hate kids? I know, kids are not common in videogames, so, we should stick to an old videogame imagery, made of macho and obsolete stuff?

[Reptilian Rob]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Snypy wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

...

Bioware moved him off mass effect 3 to work on the Star Wars MMO.  He then left.

I don't really know if he was moved or if he wanted to work on SWTOR instead, so I can't and don't want to argue with you. However, I read his blog, and the ending he originally intended for ME3 was even worse than what Mac Walters came up with. That said, Drew would've probably given us several endings as well. So, one of them might've been very good.

In his defense, he said it was a very early concept. 

Anyways, a lot of the flak BioWare has received lately, while deserving, would diminish greatly if the company were more humble and apolegetic about this whole situation. 

Truth.

[coles4971]

How can they get any more humble than making a whole freaking DLC to clarify the ending? Sure, I wish they actually changed the ending, but by making the EC they pretty much said "ok, you guys are right, we do need to improve on our ending".

Though I do wish they'd stop streamlining their games so much.

[Rogue Unit]

Ryumanjisen wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay. Let me try and turn this thread around with some actual constructive criticism.

For starters, I loved Mass Effect 3 a lot. But for the sake of being helpful, I'll just point out where Mass Effect 3 went wrong.

War Assets were not representated in the final mission.
The lack of a final boss.
Lack of planet exploration.
Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences.
Auto dialogue.
Shooting mechanics are the best they've ever been in the series. But still have some catching up to do.
More dialogue options. Neutral ones would be nice too.

I did like extended cut, but ultimately if you want the game to be more "paletable" for fans, that might be an idea.I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings.
More modes for multiplayer.

Come on guys. Make this thread useful. Please.

I'll try to add my 2 cents about some of these statements:


-Auto dialogue
I'm intrigued. What do you mean by "auto dialogue"...cause I'm pretty sure I chose all my Shepard's dialogue options.

Either you're playing dumb or you didn't play ME3.

He is referring to the many, many times Shepard carries on entire conversations without any player direction.
 
Play the prologue to see what exactly he is talking about.

[Snypy]

Justin2k wrote...

The ending wasn't the only issue with ME3 writing though.  The whole Reaper war was clearly misunderstood by the new writer.  This was a Science fiction story about a race of sentinent starships and the struggles of humanity to be accepted in the galaxy.  This Walters guy just got fixated on synthetics organics yadda yadda.  The writing was off all the way through, not just the ending.

 
Perhaps. I'd say he focused too much on the Cerberus, instead of the Reapers. But the ending was the main reason why the players rioted. Therefore, if the ending had been great, the sheer majority of fans wouldn't have complained at all.

coles4971 wrote...

How can they get any more humble than making a whole freaking DLC to clarify the ending? Sure, I wish they actually changed the ending, but by making the EC they pretty much said "ok, you guys are right, we do need to improve on our ending".

Though I do wish they'd stop streamlining their games so much.

BioWare has never officially admitted that the original ending was rushed and wrong. On the contrary, we were the dumb ones who didn't understand the writer's artistic (nihilistic) vision. I am, however, grateful for the Extended Cut. And BioWare improved its reputation by creating it.

[macrocarl]

The title of your thread sounds like a command! Also, I disagree with everything you said OP. Peace out.

[Big I]

While none of their games are perfect, Bioware has consistently provided me with my favorite games of the past ten years. They may have stumbled at the finish line of ME3, but in almost every other respect it was a game I loved playing. DA2 may have been a misstep, but even it had it's great moments. Moreover, they learn from their mistakes. DLC like Leviathan or DA2s Mark of the Assassin proves to me that Bioware is still the great gaming studio I've supported since Baldur's Gate 2. I trust them to get it right, even if they do occassionaly screw up.

[Justin2k]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Moreover, they learn from their mistakes. DLC like Leviathan or DA2s Mark of the Assassin proves to me that Bioware is still the great gaming studio I've supported since Baldur's Gate 2.

They don't learn though thats the thing.  Leviathan was great right until the ending, then it goes on about synthetic organic what have you and bores everyone, just like ME3.  

They don't want to learn.  They talk like their game is amazing and the consumers are wrong for not getting it.  When it's quite clear the quality is going down with every game they produce.  

[Abraham_uk]

Ryumanjisen wrote...

I'll try to add my 2 cents about some of these statements:

-War assets were not represented in the final mission
This is true to some extented. They have an impact, albeit small, on the ending you get (we are talking about pre-extended cut here). 
-The lack of a final boss
That's precisely, in my humble opinion, one of the best moves Bioware ever made. What did you expect, a final battle against the all powerful Harbinger to save the galaxy and the day? For once, Bioware didn't took the easy way and did a surprising and original move: no ending boss. Brilliant.
-Lack of planet exploration
And I'm very thankful for that. I'm fighting a race of sentient machines who want to wipe out all life in the galaxy. No time for explore little planets, I am afraid. That's the part I hated most in ME 1: exploration. I am a hero, not a goddamn scout.
-Some of the past decisions such as the Collector Ship didn't have any real consequences. 
True indeed. But having all countless decisions in all past mass effects have real consequences is impossible. We are talking about too many variables...and the games has to follow a script, after all.
-Auto dialogue
I'm intrigued. What do you mean by "auto dialogue"...cause I'm pretty sure I chose all my Shepard's dialogue options.
-I know it will never be done, but the removal of Star Child and Star Child's choices would have been an improvement on the endings. 
That's your opinion. I actually like the "Star Child" and the endings, even before the extended cut.

Coreniro wrote...


1. Not important. The multitude becomes one, it's the principle behind the idea of the crucible... and, way to many assets to be shown in a 2-dvd game (think about how big hd-textures for pc are. Everything is a burden in this generation)
2. Better this way. It would feel weird to fight the illusive man with weapons. And reapers are too big, and too many. and final bosses were old in the 2000's
3. It wouldn't make sense during a war. By the way, there are less but more meaningful "new areas" to see.
4. They have consequences. not the way you'd like.
5. Bioware are new to third person shooters. They've made isometrical pseudo-real time rpgs until Mass Effect. Next-gen will be better.
6. A big war is going on, you must take a stance. Otherwise, you'll end up hating yourself for making no choice.
7. People keep on focusing on the image of the kid. It was clear, even before the EC, that the kid represented more than just a scared child. And even if it was just a kid, what's the problem? do you all hate kids? I know, kids are not common in videogames, so, we should stick to an old videogame imagery, made of macho and obsolete stuff?

I would like to thank both of you for your fantastic counter arguments.
This is the sort of thing I hope to see more of on Bioware Social Network.

You both have valid points.
Keep up the good work.
This is actually what I like to see in a rebuttal. People like you two are what prevent these threads from being one sided.

There are too many "I hate you Bioware" threads. They get ignored and locked down.

[fishcurry]

vote with your wallets.

they're still making money, so they don't really care.

[Morty Smith]

Ryumanjisen wrote...

-The lack of a final boss
That's precisely, in my humble opinion, one of the best moves Bioware ever made. What did you expect, a final battle against the all powerful Harbinger to save the galaxy and the day? For once, Bioware didn't took the easy way and did a surprising and original move: no ending boss. Brilliant.

So not comming up with a fitting and epic boss fight was not the easy way out?

Imagine the next game:

"Wow Bioware didn´t even make a game out of ME4, they could have taken the easy and predictable route, but they didn´t. Brilliant!"

Modifié par Kroitz, 31 août 2012 - 08:59 .

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

"Why Skyrim is inspiration for DA3 and not DA:O." Ohhhh no....Please tell me you're joking about this. I want my Dragon Age back!! :'(

[artificial-ignorance]

Gruntburner wrote...

I was going to put in a snarky and witty response, but I just too tired right now, so I will just say this: that is your opinion. I disagree with nearly every aspect of it. I love the games Bioware makes and I love ME3. Nothing you or anyone on these forums are going to change that, just like how I know I could never change you mind.

This is how I feel about almost every forum on BSN about how "bad" the endings are or anything of the like.

I loved ME3, I loved the extended cut.  I loved Leviathan.  Nothing the haters say will change that.  

I just hope all this nonsensical hatred of mass effect doesn't deter Bioware from continuing the franchise.

[Izhalezan]

artificial-ignorance wrote...

This is how I feel about almost every forum on BSN about how "good" the endings are or anything of the like.

I hated ME3, I hated the extended cut.  I was bored by Leviathan.  Nothing the lovers say will change that.  

I just hope all this nonsensical love of mass effect 3 doesn't encourage Bioware to continue the franchise.

[Morty Smith]

artificial-ignorance wrote...

This is how I feel about almost every forum on BSN about how "bad" the endings are or anything of the like.

I loved ME3, I loved the extended cut.  I loved Leviathan.  Nothing the haters say will change that.  

I just hope all this nonsensical hatred of mass effect doesn't deter Bioware from continuing the franchise.

I just hope all this nonsenical praise doesn´t encourage Bioware to continue the franchise as is.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Justin2k wrote...

jsamlaw wrote...

Yet, you're still spending your free time posting on their forums.

I was.  Not anymore.  If you want to choke on synthetics kill organics because organics are bad people for the next 8 months in DLC, and if you want to be forced to make things up in your head so the endings to their games make sense then be my guest but I'm done with this pretentious company and these pretentious moderators. 

And yet here you still are posting away even after this post I quoted. Congratulations on making any post/argument you make invalid due to your hypocritical stance.

If you are done with them, I say good day to you and thank the stars we don't have to read your rubbish posts ever again.

[Nelatherion]

Gruntburner wrote...

I was going to put in a snarky and witty response, but I just too tired right now, so I will just say this: that is your opinion. I disagree with nearly every aspect of it. I love the games Bioware makes and I love ME3. Nothing you or anyone on these forums are going to change that, just like how I know I could never change you mind.

[A-Slice-of-Pink]

the things that sucked for me in ME3 were:
no representation of war assets in the final mission,
i was expecting to be charging headlong into a battle against the reapers with Krogan, geth and alliance soldiers at my side and with the war assets you painstakingly searched the galaxy for actually being shown doing something against the reapers rather than just being a number.
Limited exploration
what i loved about ME2 -not sure if this is the same in ME1 as i own a ps3 - was the fact that you could hop in the Normandy drive around the galaxy and it felt like you were discovering new planets. The galaxy felt vast, imposing and uncharted you could then land on a planet and save it from reaper indoctrination or Geth, or explore a ship teetering over the edge of a cliff. These little side missions were immensely enjoyable and the fact tht you discovered them for yourself made it more so. None of this was present in ME3, instead all of the planets and locations are already marked and Hackett tells you exactly where all the N7 missions are so theres no sense of exploration and discovery, which was tbh probably my biggest problem with ME3.