63 réponses à ce sujet

[Elecbender]

Could you test the fire shield as well?

[Tybo]

I played around with this some more. I found that I also couldn't one shot Assault Troopers.  I also could not, in many attempts, one shot the Centurion shield.  My melee is clearly doing less damage than it is supposed too.

I took the fire shield evolution. Could this be the problem?

Modifié par tyhw, 01 septembre 2012 - 08:01 .

[Rokayt]

Elecbender wrote...

I have noticed the Paladin's melee doing far more than the coalesced.ini says which is 400. But this extra damage is nowhere to be found in the coalesced.ini .

You cannot find the falcons grenades, or the coding that makes weapons auto/semi auto in coalesced either.

[Elecbender]

tyhw wrote...

I played around with this some more. I found that I also couldn't one shot Assault Troopers.  I also could not, in many attempts, one shot the Centurion shield.  My melee is clearly doing less damage than it is supposed too.

I took the fire shield evolution. Could this be the problem?

You never could on Gold, but yes, the fire shield deals 25% less impact damage according to the coalesced.ini which matches my in-game experience.

[Rokayt]

Well, The DOT effects in this game work by: Adding a portion of damage, taking a percentage of the instantaneous damage, and making it over time instead.

So, lets say this fire shield decides to give us a 50% damage bonus, and make 1/3rd of our damage DOT....

We still have a 25% bonus from simply having fitness......

Thus, we are trading an instantaneous 50% damage bonus for 10% (or more) of our instantaneous damage.

[Tybo]

Elecbender wrote...

tyhw wrote...

I played around with this some more. I found that I also couldn't one shot Assault Troopers.  I also could not, in many attempts, one shot the Centurion shield.  My melee is clearly doing less damage than it is supposed too.

I took the fire shield evolution. Could this be the problem?

You never could on Gold, but yes, the fire shield deals 25% less impact damage according to the coalesced.ini which matches my in-game experience.

Thanks for the info, that makes sense. 

I thought I would be able to one shot the assault trooper based on vironbloods proposed formula for paladin melee damage.  If there is a 2x multiplier to health, then

400*(1+.65SM+.15HJ)*1.25*2=1800 damage.

[Moonwish]

tyhw wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

tyhw wrote...

I played around with this some more. I found that I also couldn't one shot Assault Troopers.  I also could not, in many attempts, one shot the Centurion shield.  My melee is clearly doing less damage than it is supposed too.

I took the fire shield evolution. Could this be the problem?

You never could on Gold, but yes, the fire shield deals 25% less impact damage according to the coalesced.ini which matches my in-game experience.

Thanks for the info, that makes sense. 

I thought I would be able to one shot the assault trooper based on vironbloods proposed formula for paladin melee damage.  If there is a 2x multiplier to health, then

400*(1+.65SM+.15HJ)*1.25*2=1800 damage.

Space magic, but try Cryo Shield. Its much better anyway, cause it freezez Phantoms.

[Tybo]

 Flame Shield Tests:

N7 Paladin, 65% fitness melee, Fire Shield evolution, Hydraulic Joints 5, Assault Rifle Omni-Blade 5

Gold Cannibal: 2025-675=1350 damage done at impact.

Fire DOT
675-225=450


Gold Brute: 9000-7425=1575 at impact

Fire DOT
7425-6525=900

==================================================================
N7 Paladin, 65% fitness melee, Fire Shield Evolution.  No gear, no melee mod.

Gold Cannibal:2025-1035=990 impact damage

Fire DOT
1035-705=330

Gold Maurader (Shields): 1518-528 impact damage

Fire DOT
528-198=330

Gold Ravager: 8100-6945=1125 at impact

Fire DOT
6945-6285=660

One time, the DOT jumped up to 1480.  One time, it did 1320 direct damage and no DOT.

Gold Brute: 9000-7845=1125 at impact

Fire DOT 
7845-7185=660

However, a couple times I only did 660 at impact, with 660 DOT.  A couple other times, I did 1155 at impact and 1980 in DOT.

Can't say I'm happy with this result.  Inconsistent results, and the most common results don't seem to fit with an expected damage calculation.  Anyone have any ideas explaining these numbers?

Modifié par tyhw, 04 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[vironblood]

tyhw wrote...
If you don't mind my asking, how do you get exact damage numbers?  

Memory scanning/editing. Though it seems you no longer require this info

tyhw wrote...
However, a couple times I only did 660 at impact, with 660 DOT.  A couple other times, I did 1155 at impact and 1980 in DOT.

I found a brute is not exactly the perfect testing candidate because of its claw. What you observed was the damage returned from the shield when you are staggered and the standard melee does not connect properly.

I have updated the OP with Fire Shield evolution tests.

[peddroelm]

bump - nice work

[Fade9wayz]

You went and meleed Brute for this test? Man, and here I thought you tested it on Pyros or Primes when you mentionned you were comparing ice/fire shield melee. Heck, I'd rather melee a Banshee or a Phantom than a Brute. On that note, I think I have sometimes managed to interrupt Phantoms melees with the light melee. Is that possible or did I just start my own light melee before them?
Nice work anyway, I think I will use a respec card to try fire shields on Primes, see if that works for me.

[vironblood]

Fade9wayz wrote...

You went and meleed Brute for this test? Man, and here I thought you tested it on Pyros or Primes when you mentionned you were comparing ice/fire shield melee. Heck, I'd rather melee a Banshee or a Phantom than a Brute. On that note, I think I have sometimes managed to interrupt Phantoms melees with the light melee. Is that possible or did I just start my own light melee before them?
Nice work anyway, I think I will use a respec card to try fire shields on Primes, see if that works for me.

The Brute tests were done in wave 2 solo games on Giant abusing ladders and ramps to avoid the insta-kill

Regarding the Phantom's melee, it can be interrupted by the shield in both instances you described. Altough the first case is a little harder to replicate because it depends on your attack timing relative to her own - the damage dealt in this sitation is actually the same as the returned melee damage when the shield is deployed.

Personally I prefer the Cryo Shield over the Fire one because the freeze effect (even with the armor weakness bug) provides more overall utility and better CQC control, especially against Phantoms.

[galaxygrunt]

The cryo armour reduction is bugged?!?! Great...time for anothe re-spec....

[peddroelm]

kviksverd wrote...

The cryo armour reduction is bugged?!?! Great...time for anothe re-spec....

 

The part from the shield bash ... Snap freeze debuff works ...

[ErrorTagUnknown]

Cryo shield debuff doesn't work... that's heartbreaking. Felt like it worked. I was really excited about taking that ability. Seemed like a great skill........ ah well. I just promoted those classes so I guess I'll go back to taking 3 ranks in shield mastery and using it situationally.

[Moonwish]

Fade9wayz wrote...

You went and meleed Brute for this test? Man, and here I thought you tested it on Pyros or Primes when you mentionned you were comparing ice/fire shield melee. Heck, I'd rather melee a Banshee or a Phantom than a Brute. On that note, I think I have sometimes managed to interrupt Phantoms melees with the light melee. Is that possible or did I just start my own light melee before them?
Nice work anyway, I think I will use a respec card to try fire shields on Primes, see if that works for me.

kviksverd wrote...

The cryo armour reduction is bugged?!?! Great...time for anothe re-spec....

As I said before, Cryo shield is not for dmg. Like in Fade-s situation, he INTERRUPTED a phantom by freezing her. And that could be done in half sec or so, cause the shield bash is that fast. Forget armor debuff, the über power is FREEZING the hell out of enemies. Almost all non boss enemies can be stripped of their shiled in 1 or 2 shield bashes, and a third can freeze them. This is an extremely powerful tool against phantoms, hunters, and other mooks. It also slows down brutes and banshees which is an other great thing. 

P.S : Bashing a brute is not a great stuff, you only need to wait for its charge, roll away, than bash him in the buttocks...

[Fade9wayz]

Moonwish wrote...

As I said before, Cryo shield is not for dmg. Like in Fade-s situation, he INTERRUPTED a phantom by freezing her. And that could be done in half sec or so, cause the shield bash is that fast. Forget armor debuff, the über power is FREEZING the hell out of enemies. Almost all non boss enemies can be stripped of their shiled in 1 or 2 shield bashes, and a third can freeze them. This is an extremely powerful tool against phantoms, hunters, and other mooks. It also slows down brutes and banshees which is an other great thing. 

P.S : Bashing a brute is not a great stuff, you only need to wait for its charge, roll away, than bash him in the buttocks...

Well, I'm not in the habit of slapping strangers in the buttocks, I need at least one date  ^^

[vironblood]

Moonwish wrote...

As I said before, Cryo shield is not for dmg. Like in Fade-s situation, he INTERRUPTED a phantom by freezing her. And that could be done in half sec or so, cause the shield bash is that fast. Forget armor debuff, the über power is FREEZING the hell out of enemies. Almost all non boss enemies can be stripped of their shiled in 1 or 2 shield bashes, and a third can freeze them. This is an extremely powerful tool against phantoms, hunters, and other mooks. It also slows down brutes and banshees which is an other great thing. 

P.S : Bashing a brute is not a great stuff, you only need to wait for its charge, roll away, than bash him in the buttocks...

I concur - as can be seen in my previous post. Even with the armor weakening bug the Cryo Shield is much more usefull overall. The extra damage vs armor provided by the Fire Shield seems lacklustre in comparison - you will not be spending too much time meleeing armored enemies anyway.

Fade9wayz wrote...

Well, I'm not in the habit of slapping strangers in the buttocks, I need at least one date  ^^

The irony here is the detrimental effect to the player when enemies do not require a previous date. There are quite a few times when a phantom decided to slap the unsuspecting posterior of my character with her sword. What followed was... not pleasant. ^^

[ToLazy4Name]

Wait, so let me get this straight: The Cryo Shield Armor Debuff, currently, does NOT work?

[Ramsutin]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Wait, so let me get this straight: The Cryo Shield Armor Debuff, currently, does NOT work?

Correct

[Rotacioskapa]

Ramsutin wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Wait, so let me get this straight: The Cryo Shield Armor Debuff, currently, does NOT work?

Correct

It's getting annoying that nothing works in this game.

[Okifeelthat]

from what I gather from all the comments and the awesome OP, cryo shield debuff does not debuff, BUT it's still better than flame because it freezes enemies correct?? looks like I don't have to respec then!

awesome job OP

[vironblood]

Okifeelthat wrote...

from what I gather from all the comments and the awesome OP, cryo shield debuff does not debuff, BUT it's still better than flame because it freezes enemies correct?? looks like I don't have to respec then!

awesome job OP

You are correct, unprotected (health) enemies will be frozen - including Phantoms. Besides, the armor weakening effect of Snap Freeze works and is much safer to use.

[J4mes]

Or take Fire Shield, Bash Unprotected Phantom, Snap Freeze, and cause Fire Explosion... then carry on about your day.

If you take the Top Three Evolutions in Shield Mastery, the Fire Shield is a Beast(even w/o other Melee Enhancements).

[J4mes]

I generally take Carnifex X with Melee Stunner and Armor Piercing Mod though.