79 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

People need to understand that when BioWare says they're 'inspired' by Skyrim and are looking 'aggresively' at it when developing DA3, they don't mean that they're actually inspired by the game. I mean, really, who the hell would be? Skyrim is a fantastic game, but it's basically Oblivion 2.0. There's not much inspiration to be had if you weren't already inspired by Oblivion or Morrowind.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, BioWare is has been trying desperately to reach out to that CoD fanbase and cash in on some of that pie. They've been dumbing down their games for years and have done just about everything they possibly can to lure them in with little success. But then something amazing happens...

SKYRIM! That's right, that bad boy is unleashed on the world and sells millions of copies on day one, and has sold incredibly well ever since. BioWare (like everyone else) took notice of this. Suddenly, the big wigs at BioWare are all over this like flies on ****! And I bet if you asked him (Ray Muzyka) what he's so 'inspired' by with Skyrim, he wouldn't be able to tell you.

BioWare is inspired by the SALES of Skyrim. They want those huge numbers and will do anything to get them, including (but certainly not limited to) copying other very successful games. I bet the higher up's can't understand how it did so well and DA2 did so poorly. It's all about the romances, right.....RIGHT?

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 31 août 2012 - 10:08 .

[Olmerto]

It's alarming to think Bioware has become that shallow, but I can't discount your theory. Their Dragon Age marketing strategy and DA2's fabled "new direction" tend to reinforce what you've described.

[Atakuma]

Well yeah, it's the doctors. When was the last time you heard them say anything that wasn't meaningless PR fluff?

[AtreiyaN7]

Filament wrote...

What a surprise, they're interested in a successful game because of how successful it is...

The only thing I'm surprised by is that this thread exists. I rather thought that it obvious that a successful game would merit being looked at.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 31 août 2012 - 11:06 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Filament wrote...

What a surprise, they're interested in a successful game because of how successful it is...

The only thing I'm surprised by is that this thread exists. I rather thought that it obvious that a successful game would merit being looked at.

They're going to change parts of the game to be more like Skyrim because of how successful Skyrim was, not because it did anything innovative or out of the ordinary for that series.

The point of the thread was to clarify that BioWare is not really 'inspired' by Skyrim at all. It's completely opposite of the kinds of games they make. They want to change Dragon Age to be more like Skyrim just so it will sell more and give them an excuse to try another markerting strategy.

Don't you think BioWare should continue to do their own thing and not copy something else just because it sold more than their last few games?

[Renmiri1]

Please BW don't give us a mix of Angry Birds , CoD and Skyrim with GlaDos as villain

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Don't you think BioWare should continue to do their own thing and not copy something else just because it sold more than their last few games?

Sure, I think that, but do you? I don't think you want Bioware to do their own thing, I think you want them to do your thing.

When people spout this line, what they really mean is that they want Bioware to produce clones of Baldur's Gate (or Neverwinter Nights or whatever they think the best Bioware game is). But Bioware doesn't want to do that anymore, so it's not "their own thing".

[Melca36]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

People need to understand that when BioWare says they're 'inspired' by Skyrim and are looking 'aggresively' at it when developing DA3, they don't mean that they're actually inspired by the game. I mean, really, who the hell would be? Skyrim is a fantastic game, but it's basically Oblivion 2.0. There's not much inspiration to be had if you weren't already inspired by Oblivion or Morrowind.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, BioWare is has been trying desperately to reach out to that CoD fanbase and cash in on some of that pie. They've been dumbing down their games for years and have done just about everything they possibly can to lure them in with little success. But then something amazing happens...

SKYRIM! That's right, that bad boy is unleashed on the world and sells millions of copies on day one, and has sold incredibly well ever since. BioWare (like everyone else) took notice of this. Suddenly, the big wigs at BioWare are all over this like flies on ****! And I bet if you asked him (Ray Muzyka) what he's so 'inspired' by with Skyrim, he wouldn't be able to tell you.

BioWare is inspired by the SALES of Skyrim. They want those huge numbers and will do anything to get them, including (but certainly not limited to) copying other very successful games. I bet the higher up's can't understand how it did so well and DA2 did so poorly. It's all about the romances, right.....RIGHT?

They already have STATED they are not going to be ripping off SKYRIM.  They are are getting ideas from it as well as from other rpgs.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Don't you think BioWare should continue to do their own thing and not copy something else just because it sold more than their last few games?

Sure, I think that, but do you? I don't think you want Bioware to do their own thing, I think you want them to do your thing.

When people spout this line, what they really mean is that they want Bioware to produce clones of Baldur's Gate (or Neverwinter Nights or whatever they think the best Bioware game is). But Bioware doesn't want to do that anymore, so it's not "their own thing".

Of course I want them to do my thing and use all my ideas. That would make me very happy. That said, it's very unlikely that will ever happen and even if it did, it would ****** a lot of other people off. I would then be blamed exiled from BSN and everywhere else.

Umm... anyway, I get the feeling BioWare doesn't know what BioWare wants to do anymore. They seem to be constantly taking ideas from other games these days in an effort to achieve 'maximum profit'. I dare say that maximizing profits is about the only thing BioWare is sure about these days.

Do you disagree?

[Nefla]

They tried to grab CoD's market as well and failed because they really don't seem to grasp the idea of why people love certain games. They made DA2 have "faster" combat because FPS games bave fast, combat but they were totally different. FPS is all about player skill and DA2 is all about button mashing. Also most people who are super into CoD aren't going to be looking towards medieval fantasy RPGs for something similar to CoD. Chances are they wont be looking to them at all. If BW is trying to cash in on Skyrim's popularity, they're going to choose some random aspect of the game that is nowhere near what people love about it and implement that in some vague way like they did with DA2.

What people love about Skyrim is the huge open world, the complete freedom in where you go, what you do, and what kind of character and class you are, also the fact that you can play and play and play and never see it all. Skyrim's sidequests are usually really fun and always different from each other, the maps are never copy/pasted. (also I LOVE the in game books and journals, they help give a lot of life to the world). The crafting is also super useful and fun, not a useless chore like DA2. So those things being said, if DA3 takes something from skyrim it will be:

-Elves have weird foreheads! (added to the already weird face and body)
-There is snow!
-There is a weight system instead of a ??/?? system!
-People have scandanavian accents!
-There is someone singing off-key in the tavern!

Because those are the things people love about skyrim and will make them buy DA3 right...?

[JohnCena94]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Filament wrote...

What a surprise, they're interested in a successful game because of how successful it is...

The only thing I'm surprised by is that this thread exists. I rather thought that it obvious that a successful game would merit being looked at.

That's fair, but at the same time I personaly don't want them to copy skyrim's format, which is what some people are afraid of and I think that is why this thread exists.

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Don't you think BioWare should continue to do their own thing and not copy something else just because it sold more than their last few games?

Sure, I think that, but do you? I don't think you want Bioware to do their own thing, I think you want them to do your thing.

When people spout this line, what they really mean is that they want Bioware to produce clones of Baldur's Gate (or Neverwinter Nights or whatever they think the best Bioware game is). But Bioware doesn't want to do that anymore, so it's not "their own thing".

Of course I want them to do my thing and use all my ideas. That would make me very happy. That said, it's very unlikely that will ever happen and even if it did, it would ****** a lot of other people off. I would then be blamed exiled from BSN and everywhere else.

Umm... anyway, I get the feeling BioWare doesn't know what BioWare wants to do anymore. They seem to be constantly taking ideas from other games these days in an effort to achieve 'maximum profit'. I dare say that maximizing profits is about the only thing BioWare is sure about these days.

Do you disagree?

I do disagree. I think Bioware knew exactly what it wanted to do with DA2. I also think they succeeded. I think DA2 is an extremely good game. That it failed in a financial sense is completely irrelevent to the question of its quality. Lots of good things are unpopular and lots of utter crap takes the world by storm.

Very little of consequence changed in the transition from DA:O to DA2. Most of the changes are superficial tweaks. In a functional sense, in a gameplay sense, the two are almost identical.

I don't know what "other games" you think Bioware is borrowing from, aside from Mass Effects 'dialogue wheel', which is largely an aesthetic change, not a gameplay change.

You're going to have to give me specific examples of games that you think DA2 borrowed from, which game elements you think they borrowed, and wher exactly they appear.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Don't you think BioWare should continue to do their own thing and not copy something else just because it sold more than their last few games?

Sure, I think that, but do you? I don't think you want Bioware to do their own thing, I think you want them to do your thing.

When people spout this line, what they really mean is that they want Bioware to produce clones of Baldur's Gate (or Neverwinter Nights or whatever they think the best Bioware game is). But Bioware doesn't want to do that anymore, so it's not "their own thing".

Of course I want them to do my thing and use all my ideas. That would make me very happy. That said, it's very unlikely that will ever happen and even if it did, it would ****** a lot of other people off. I would then be blamed exiled from BSN and everywhere else.

Umm... anyway, I get the feeling BioWare doesn't know what BioWare wants to do anymore. They seem to be constantly taking ideas from other games these days in an effort to achieve 'maximum profit'. I dare say that maximizing profits is about the only thing BioWare is sure about these days.

Do you disagree?

I do disagree. I think Bioware knew exactly what it wanted to do with DA2. I also think they succeeded. I think DA2 is an extremely good game. That it failed in a financial sense is completely irrelevent to the question of its quality. Lots of good things are unpopular and lots of utter crap takes the world by storm.

Very little of consequence changed in the transition from DA:O to DA2. Most of the changes are superficial tweaks. In a functional sense, in a gameplay sense, the two are almost identical.

I don't know what "other games" you think Bioware is borrowing from, aside from Mass Effects 'dialogue wheel', which is largely an aesthetic change, not a gameplay change.

You're going to have to give me specific examples of games that you think DA2 borrowed from, which game elements you think they borrowed, and wher exactly they appear.

The reason it was a financial failure is because it was a mediocre game. The only thing that's irrelevent here is whether you liked it or not.

I don't know. I think the dialogue wheel and voice protagonist was a bit of a shock to the system. That was probably the biggest change they made. In terms of combat, everything was much faster. I don't think that was much of a problem, though. But the enemies jumping off rooftops, constant 'waves', and the lack of isometric view ruined the tactical aspect of the combat. I think most PC gamers would agree.

They borrowed from Mass Effect. The dialogue wheel and auto-dialogue. Those two things were present throughout the entire game. I also think they borrowed from games like God of War. Having to mash the 'A' button constantly to perform attacks. It felt more hack n' slash because of it.

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
The reason it was a financial failure is because it was a mediocre game. The only thing that's irrelevent here is whether you liked it or not.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't fly. Financial success is reliant on a number of factors (most prominently marketing), but quality is not one. Videogaes are an "experience good", you can't guage quality, or know if you'll like it, until after you've experienced it, and that (normally) requires you to purchase it first. DA2 failed because it wasn't very marketable.

I don't know. I think the dialogue wheel and voice protagonist was a bit of a shock to the system. That was probably the biggest change they made. In terms of combat, everything was much faster. I don't think that was much of a problem, though. But the enemies jumping off rooftops, constant 'waves', and the lack of isometric view ruined the tactical aspect of the combat. I think most PC gamers would agree.

I know that people were shocked, but that doesn't mean much. People get shocked over all sorts of stupid, inconsequential things. The dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist are the most visible changes, but again, they are largely a matter of aesthetics, and barely alter the gameplay at all.

I don't set much stock by what "PC Gamers" say, as a general rule.

They borrowed from Mass Effect. The dialogue wheel and auto-dialogue. Those two things were present throughout the entire game. I also think they borrowed from games like God of War. Having to mash the 'A' button constantly to perform attacks. It felt more hack n' slash because of it.

Well, Mass Efect we covered.

I'm not familiar with God of War, but I was given to understand that it uses attack "combos" that require you to mash more than just one button. DA2 has an "auto attack" option that you could have turned on if you wanted to.

Also, seems to me that most RPGs throughout history have required you to press the same button over and over again in order to execute different highlighted commands. Seems to me that all we're haggling over is the speed at which the game requires you to mash said button.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 01 septembre 2012 - 01:57 .

[SafetyShattered]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Filament wrote...

What a surprise, they're interested in a successful game because of how successful it is...

The only thing I'm surprised by is that this thread exists. I rather thought that it obvious that a successful game would merit being looked at.

This was pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I think a lot of companies do this, not just Bioware.

[Renmiri1]

Nefla wrote...

if DA3 takes something from skyrim it will be:

-Elves have weird foreheads! (added to the already weird face and body)
-There is snow!
-There is a weight system instead of a ??/?? system!
-People have scandanavian accents!
-There is someone singing off-key in the tavern!

Because those are the things people love about skyrim and will make them buy DA3 right...?

 Brilliant!!!

The weakest point of Skyrim IMHO is story and morally consistent choices. You can Be the Dragonborn uniting the land and the Dark Brotherhood big boss. WTF ?? 
To get good gear I had to trick one of my followers into touching a pilar to be impaled by a demon goddess, kill a king, allow people to eat human flesh and be all kinds of tricky, shifty, mean, good, honorable, noble..

My character on Skyrim has multiple personality disorder and is basically a jerk. And I get to see Ulfric's maimed bidy every time I visit the castle, unless I bother to push it into the kitchen or some out of the way place. DA at least despawns boss bodies! And the cities are incredibly dreary with all that snow!!!

Please Bioware if you are going to copy some game copy Guild Wars 2. The world is amazing!!!

Modifié par Renmiri1, 01 septembre 2012 - 02:40 .

[Mello]

Nefla wrote...

*snip* So those things being said, if DA3 takes something from skyrim it will be:

-Elves have weird foreheads! (added to the already weird face and body)
-There is snow!
-There is a weight system instead of a ??/?? system!
-People have scandanavian accents!
-There is someone singing off-key in the tavern!
- COLORED FOREHEADS! 

Because those are the things people love about skyrim and will make them buy DA3 right...?

Fixed it for you. 

[jpzgoku]

Plaintiff wrote...
Financial success is reliant on a number of factors (most prominently marketing), but quality is not one. 

Really? Quality of a product in no way correlates with how successful that product is or will become finacially?

Modifié par jpzgoku, 01 septembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[varteral6162]

I think they should use Neverwinter Nights as inspiration for DA3

[Renmiri1]

jpzgoku wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Financial success is reliant on a number of factors (most prominently marketing), but quality is not one. 

Really? Quality of a product in no way correlates with how successful that product is or will become finacially?

Amazingly enough, nope.. It is never as simple as build it good and they will buy it. Engineers learn that the hard way all the time.

Betamax >>> VHS and we all know who won just fora quick example.

[Plaintiff]

jpzgoku wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Financial success is reliant on a number of factors (most prominently marketing), but quality is not one. 

Really? Quality of a product in no way correlates with how successful that product is or will become?

Generally, no.

If quality was a major factor in the success of a product, then the pop culture landscape would look extremely different. Fifty Shades of Grey would not be topping bestseller lists worldwide, shoddy slasher films would never have sequels, and nobody would've heard of Justin Beiber, One Direction, Carly Rae Jepsen or any other number of ****ty pop-singing clones. And that's just for starters.

But don't take my word for it. Have a look at this list of bestselling videogames of all time (in the United States), and tell me if you think any of these titles are 'quality': http://www.escapistm...mes-of-All-Time

I can't even find a single Bioware title in this list of global sales rankings, at least not on the first page, but admittedly it breaks them down across the different consoles (and Dragon Age is listed under Electronic Arts anyway), so that makes things slightly harder: http://www.vgchartz....&genre=&sort=GL

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
The reason it was a financial failure is because it was a mediocre game. The only thing that's irrelevent here is whether you liked it or not.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't fly. Financial success is reliant on a number of factors (most prominently marketing), but quality is not one. Videogaes are an "experience good", you can't guage quality, or know if you'll like it, until after you've experienced it, and that (normally) requires you to purchase it first. DA2 failed because it wasn't very marketable.

I don't know. I think the dialogue wheel and voice protagonist was a bit of a shock to the system. That was probably the biggest change they made. In terms of combat, everything was much faster. I don't think that was much of a problem, though. But the enemies jumping off rooftops, constant 'waves', and the lack of isometric view ruined the tactical aspect of the combat. I think most PC gamers would agree.

I know that people were shocked, but that doesn't mean much. People get shocked over all sorts of stupid, inconsequential things. The dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist are the most visible changes, but again, they are largely a matter of aesthetics, and barely alter the gameplay at all.

I don't set much stock by what "PC Gamers" say, as a general rule.

They borrowed from Mass Effect. The dialogue wheel and auto-dialogue. Those two things were present throughout the entire game. I also think they borrowed from games like God of War. Having to mash the 'A' button constantly to perform attacks. It felt more hack n' slash because of it.

Well, Mass Efect we covered.

I'm not familiar with God of War, but I was given to understand that it uses attack "combos" that require you to mash more than just one button. DA2 has an "auto attack" option that you could have turned on if you wanted to.

Also, seems to me that most RPGs throughout history have required you to press the same button over and over again in order to execute different highlighted commands. Seems to me that all we're haggling over is the speed at which the game requires you to mash said button.

The sales for DA2 were strong at first. People who really enjoyed the first game were looking forward to the sequel. But as word of mouth spread about the game's mediocritiy, sales dropped like a rock. This is a matter of fact.

You should listen to PC gamers. Their opinions are just valid as anyone else concerning this subject.

DA2 on the console did not launch with an auto-attack function. It was patched in later on after widespread complaints of severe carpal tunnel syndrome. 

I suppose Fable 3 would have been a better example. You just button mash your way to victory. And yes, a lot of games do it that way. But Origins didn't do it that way and DA2 is supposed to be a sequel to Origins.

[cJohnOne]

I disagree sales behaved normally on DA2 and had a normal drop off. There is no evidence of this word of mouth thing that had to occur before it happened to have happened to effect sales.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 01 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

cJohnOne wrote...

I disagree sales behaved normally and had a normal drop off. There is no evidence of this word of mouth thing that had to occur before it happened to have happened to effect sales.

Source.

Maybe they didn't drop off. Maybe they just never got off the ground at all.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 01 septembre 2012 - 04:04 .