308 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobretti ftw]

Jamie9 wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...
And u do have the "correct percentages", am i right?

LMAO.


Delusion is kinda funny

Not delusional at all. The sample sizes featured in BSN polls are insignificant compared to the actual number of consumers that buy BioWare products. It really is only representative of the "hardcore" fans.

And based on what u can say that the majority liked the EC/game/plot?

[sparkyo42]

eddieoctane wrote...

This leads me to believe that BioWare.EA wants to put the failure of the Mass Effect IP on the fans for not wanting to support DLC which betrays some of the fundamental themes from the original game. So unless we shell out money for a DLC we don't want, which doesn't change anything about the ending (which is the major issue for most of us who are dissatisfied), we are the ones killing the franchise.

If true, then wow. Screw you BioWare. You know what we wanted from DLC, and that we would gladly pay for what we wanted. Instead, you thumbed your noses at us. You claimed the game was art months, if not years, after the window to reasonably call the game "art" had closed, and now you want to pin it all on the players who supported you by pre-ordering ME2 and 3. If Weekes is a mouth piece, I feel bad for him. If he actually believes the party line, then there is no one at BioWare who can be trusted to actually care about what the players actually want. But in either case, I'm ready to wash my hands of the publisher as a whole.

Don't jump to conclusions, he may both be stating the obivious which he is and be working off of unknown data (ie he may not have the figures). Nobody knows the sales figures of Leviathan, it might be going slow but enough or large but quiet, we just don't have those details.

If the end case is as you've summed it up then EA is risking an increase of damage to the Bioware brand. Those on BSN know that while there are those still unwillingly to move forward and work constructively with the Team. Blame them and another segment of Bioware fanbase may die. And there's only so many hits they can take.

[AlanC9]

Jere85 wrote...

I think the leviathan DLC is a last straw for many people.
Alot of fans still stuck to their guns with Leviathan, In hope this would affect something in the game, after being insulted by the 2 extra added lines from the starchild...

Were a lot of fans actually being that dumb?

[sparkyo42]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...
And u do have the "correct percentages", am i right?

LMAO.


Delusion is kinda funny

Not delusional at all. The sample sizes featured in BSN polls are insignificant compared to the actual number of consumers that buy BioWare products. It really is only representative of the "hardcore" fans.

And based on what u can say that the majority liked the EC/game/plot?

That comes back to the preEC argument which isn't going to be answer till Bioware release firm data on the SP side, until then we can all play the numbers game.

The only other decided might be Leviathan, if people are ok with EC then they might be more willing to open the wallet for Leviathan, or the other way as well.

That's why so many are readign so much into the tweet at the moment I think.

[Jamie9]

Cobretti ftw wrote...
And based on what u can say that the majority liked the EC/game/plot?

I didn't say that.

We can say, with the data available, that the hardcore fanbase is unhappy with the ending. This is demonstrated and backed up by numerous polls on this very forum.

We literally have no information on whether the majority like or dislike the ending.

Regardless, what you want to know is if I'm claiming that none of this matters because it only represents the BSN. No. It really does matter. The hardcore fanbase is a company's pillar. They tell other people to buy their games. They buy DLC. They buy novels. They buy merchandise. They buy special editions.

Simply put, they are the most reliable money source. At the moment, that fanbase has been fractured, the trust gone. That's VERY bad for any company.

[sparkyo42]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jere85 wrote...

I think the leviathan DLC is a last straw for many people.
Alot of fans still stuck to their guns with Leviathan, In hope this would affect something in the game, after being insulted by the 2 extra added lines from the starchild...

Were a lot of fans actually being that dumb?

Dunm? Hope? Faith?

There have been a lot of feelings tied up in this and they still are.

I do wonder if the engine could manage the space scenes why don't they jsut drop a few more into Priority Earth for the EMS values, it might help

[Jamie9]

sparkyo42 wrote...
Dunm? Hope? Faith?

There have been a lot of feelings tied up in this and they still are.

I do wonder if the engine could manage the space scenes why don't they jsut drop a few more into Priority Earth for the EMS values, it might help

Were the space cutscenes in-engine or pre-rendered? I'm honestly blanking.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yup, this is basic supply and demand. If people don't buy ME content, then ME content stops being made.

QFT. Basic stuff.

[Mazebook]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jere85 wrote...

I think the leviathan DLC is a last straw for many people.
Alot of fans still stuck to their guns with Leviathan, In hope this would affect something in the game, after being insulted by the 2 extra added lines from the starchild...

Were a lot of fans actually being that dumb?

Look around...

see what the people do out of a simple plug.

[sparkyo42]

Jamie9 wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...
And based on what u can say that the majority liked the EC/game/plot?

I didn't say that.

We can say, with the data available, that the hardcore fanbase is unhappy with the ending. This is demonstrated and backed up by numerous polls on this very forum.

We literally have no information on whether the majority like or dislike the ending.

Regardless, what you want to know is if I'm claiming that none of this matters because it only represents the BSN. No. It really does matter. The hardcore fanbase is a company's pillar. They tell other people to buy their games. They buy DLC. They buy novels. They buy merchandise. They buy special editions.

Simply put, they are the most reliable money source. At the moment, that fanbase has been fractured, the trust gone. That's VERY bad for any company.

That's very true and there is the added issue of the time since release, traditional the hardcore would still be there waiting with the money, but I think we can all agree that may not be true, in which case what's the broad feel of the base?

Nobody knows if or when any data will be released, but I do think that Bioware at least knows that they are on the ledge with many of the base

We really are into an example of Capitalism here as ME3 may live and die on the fanbase, and honestly even if they paint us as the bad guys (which at this point is going to happen no matter what) then it should be honest.

Straight up those that are happy pay and those that aren't don't. No more "minority" or "silent majority" nonsense, everyone puts their money where their mouths are and we see jsut where the base and the broader community are.

[sparkyo42]

Jamie9 wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...
Dunm? Hope? Faith?

There have been a lot of feelings tied up in this and they still are.

I do wonder if the engine could manage the space scenes why don't they jsut drop a few more into Priority Earth for the EMS values, it might help

Were the space cutscenes in-engine or pre-rendered? I'm honestly blanking.

From memory was it a mixture of both, I think the Turian scenes were in engine and the Earth scenes pre-rendered, but that might just be me.

Might point is that there are still options to make the EMS actually something visual rather than just a silly number (why they didn't do this in the EC escapes me)

[Gruntburner]

The same ****ing thing was said about multiplayer dlc. "If you guys keep playing it, we will keep making it." He is simply stating a fact about how the business works for dlc: if there is no market for it, then you shouldn't waste the money making it.

[sparkyo42]

Gruntburner wrote...

The same ****ing thing was said about multiplayer dlc. "If you guys keep playing it, we will keep making it." He is simply stating a fact about how the business works for dlc: if there is no market for it, then you shouldn't waste the money making it.

I think the argument is if they produce a DLC that isn't well recieved and then use that as the basis to end DLC even if there is large demnd for other DLC are they just trying to place the blame onto the fans that aren't happy rather then deal with the issues.

[Jamie9]

sparkyo42 wrote...
From memory was it a mixture of both, I think the Turian scenes were in engine and the Earth scenes pre-rendered, but that might just be me.

Might point is that there are still options to make the EMS actually something visual rather than just a silly number (why they didn't do this in the EC escapes me)

Right. You see showing various combinations of fleet compositions in pre-rendered cutscenes would be incredibly difficult. Not impossible, but no easy task. Making hundreds of variations of pre-rendered cutscenes really isn't an option - so much expense.

The in-engine stuff is much more viable.

Personally, if I were in their place, I'd make a Suicide Mission-esque section that adds onto Priority: Earth. It would take place before the Harby run and would involve you picking fleets for Sword , and ground troops for Hammer. All in-engine, so you could swap the Geth with the Quarians (or have them both).

Perhaps even allow you to assign leaders (which could be your ME2 squad). Have "action shots" of each of the ones that still live.

Then sell it, because with actual effort, I wouldn't expect it to be free.

[AlanC9]

sparkyo42 wrote...

Dunm? Hope? Faith?

There have been a lot of feelings tied up in this and they still are.

I do wonder if the engine could manage the space scenes why don't they jsut drop a few more into Priority Earth for the EMS values, it might help

Bio made it pretty clear that they weren't going to put major ending changes into Leviathan, though.

As for more War Assets in the endgame, space assets would be a bit problematic. A lot of those ships don't even have models, so they'd have to be introduced in the fleet check-in scene, which is getting kinda long already. And of course the ROI is pretty terrible, since you're whipping up new models for the check-in and a minuteof fighting. Ground forces are a bit easier, since they have some of the models already.

[Gruntburner]

sparkyo42 wrote...

Gruntburner wrote...

The same ****ing thing was said about multiplayer dlc. "If you guys keep playing it, we will keep making it." He is simply stating a fact about how the business works for dlc: if there is no market for it, then you shouldn't waste the money making it.

I think the argument is if they produce a DLC that isn't well recieved and then use that as the basis to end DLC even if there is large demnd for other DLC are they just trying to place the blame onto the fans that aren't happy rather then deal with the issues.

Huh?  I really don't see that happening.  Fans will continue to buy the dlc, despite what many here think.  Most Mass Effect fans have never been to these forums.  There will be a market for it so I wouldn't worry too much.

[sparkyo42]

Jamie9 wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...
From memory was it a mixture of both, I think the Turian scenes were in engine and the Earth scenes pre-rendered, but that might just be me.

Might point is that there are still options to make the EMS actually something visual rather than just a silly number (why they didn't do this in the EC escapes me)

Right. You see showing various combinations of fleet compositions in pre-rendered cutscenes would be incredibly difficult. Not impossible, but no easy task. Making hundreds of variations of pre-rendered cutscenes really isn't an option - so much expense.

The in-engine stuff is much more viable.

Personally, if I were in their place, I'd make a Suicide Mission-esque section that adds onto Priority: Earth. It would take place before the Harby run and would involve you picking fleets for Sword , and ground troops for Hammer. All in-engine, so you could swap the Geth with the Quarians (or have them both).

Perhaps even allow you to assign leaders (which could be your ME2 squad). Have "action shots" of each of the ones that still live.

Then sell it, because with actual effort, I wouldn't expect it to be free.

Agreed the Pre-rendered might be to much for the price they could ask but the in engine things could be an option, one of the outstanding things in my view is the number that you spend building one way or the other never has any visual value, how many suggestions where there for these type of options in the EC thread?

Like you said for that I could see a price tag, but it would add depth to the Earth missions and address some more issues in my view.

[Cutlass Jack]

AlanC9 wrote...

Jere85 wrote...

I think the leviathan DLC is a last straw for many people.
Alot of fans still stuck to their guns with Leviathan, In hope this would affect something in the game, after being insulted by the 2 extra added lines from the starchild...

Were a lot of fans actually being that dumb?

How could we not be insulted when the DLC they said wouldn't affect the ending, aside from possibly some dialogue, didn't add anything to the ending except some dialogue?

[AlanC9]

sparkyo42 wrote...

From memory was it a mixture of both, I think the Turian scenes were in engine and the Earth scenes pre-rendered, but that might just be me.

All the  space scenes and some of the ground scenes are pre-rendered. A lot of space assets aren't local IIRC, and load times for the ground scenes would be intolerable without pre-rendering. 

Don't take my word; check your movies directory.

Modifié par AlanC9, 01 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[Jamie9]

sparkyo42 wrote...
Agreed the Pre-rendered might be to much for the price they could ask but the in engine things could be an option, one of the outstanding things in my view is the number that you spend building one way or the other never has any visual value, how many suggestions where there for these type of options in the EC thread?

Like you said for that I could see a price tag, but it would add depth to the Earth missions and address some more issues in my view.

Indeed. It would add replayability, likely far beyond it's price tag. That's the best thing I liked about the EC; the endings were actually different and not just copy/paste, fill with different colour.

Coincidentally, that was the one thing Leviathan lacked: replayability. There were two interupt moments, and that's about the only real difference. I admit I like to replay missions with different squadmates to hear different dialogue, but I don't know if I would class that as substantial replayability.

[sparkyo42]

Gruntburner wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

Gruntburner wrote...

The same ****ing thing was said about multiplayer dlc. "If you guys keep playing it, we will keep making it." He is simply stating a fact about how the business works for dlc: if there is no market for it, then you shouldn't waste the money making it.

I think the argument is if they produce a DLC that isn't well recieved and then use that as the basis to end DLC even if there is large demnd for other DLC are they just trying to place the blame onto the fans that aren't happy rather then deal with the issues.

Huh?  I really don't see that happening.  Fans will continue to buy the dlc, despite what many here think.  Most Mass Effect fans have never been to these forums.  There will be a market for it so I wouldn't worry too much.

Neither side here has the data to say one way or the other on that, how much does ME3 stand out to continue DLC sales now what 6 months afterwards. It also gets you into the minority/majority argument again.

That's why I feel Leviathan will be the definitive point. Either the Pro's are right and there's a committed purchasing base out there that buys the DLC in enough numbers to sustain the DLC's or the Anti's are right and it doesn't sell enough. That's how this ends now I think and that should be a answer.

Now iff that proves negative and ME3 ends early then there will be the many arguments spilling out from that, one of which is what I said.

[Jamie9]

AlanC9 wrote...
All the  space scenes and some of the ground scenes are pre-rendered. A lot of space assets aren't local IIRC, and load times for the ground scenes would be intolerable without pre-rendering. 

Don't take my word; check your movies directory.

I have to wonder how limited they are by the game engine. I can't recall a moment where more than 15-20 character models where on-screen at once.

[Reth Shepherd]

His post was at 8pm on the 28th. Seems a little early for Bioware to have any sales numbers on hand, though I suppose it's possible Weekes could have been monitoring because he was worried. Honestly, I get the feeling that EA has already decided to cut off future DLC if Levi doesn't sell, and that that decision was made wayyyyy back when the EC was being developed. As for what the sales numbers are, I really doubt we'll ever see them. DA2 got hammered badly enough that its DLC plans got scrapped, and DA2 wasn't in nearly as bad a shape as ME3 is. Too bad. It's not like they haven't had enough hints about what people DO want to buy. Is their "artistic integrity" really THAT valuable to them? Does someone really believe that their core fanbase is so devoted that they'll buy up everything even while complaining? What management level from which company did the decision to maintain course come from? So many questions, so few answers...

[garrusfan1]

Uhh that is always the case OP look at DA2.