Jenonax wrote...
The Crucible plot line is ridiculous. The idea that this massive Reaper killing device was not only passed on through hundreds of cycles without the plans getting lost or discovered is ludicrous. Equally appaling is the idea that we could build on and improve on it when we had no idea what it did. Or the fact that apparantly it was built to fit a Reaper device when no one has ever been to that particular area of the Citadel? I don't find it beautiful I find it stupid and beyond contrived.
That you find the Crucible plot ridiculous is an opinion, however, and thus does not proove that it is bad writing. You could just as easily dismiss your arguments here as a lack of imagination: Nobody ever states that no cycle has ever known what the Crucible does – The Protheans (and, through them, our cycle) know it can destroy the Reapers, but only from previous cyles. Neither we, nor the Protheans, added anything to the Crucible design. None of this solidifies the idea that *nobody* ever knew what it did. Previous cycles could have been fully aware of both the inner workings of the Crucible and thep potency of the Citadel as an "amplifier" – Which is even hinted at by Vendetta saying the somebody chose to integrate the Citadel as the catalyst, though it is unclear which cycle that was.
There might have been cycles in which the workings of the Crucible were clear, but they didn't manage to build (or use) it anyway. Maybe those cycles lacked military strength, whatever. It is really not important. Yet the claim that the actual story that we have ever states that *none* of the cycles had any idea of how the Crucible and Citadel work is simply not true, and even more so, it is never implied that a cycle who did not understand these workings added anything to the Crucible design (e.g. neither we, nor the Protheans).
Also, I wouldn't take the catalyst's "You are the first organic to ever stand here" all too literally: This could very well mean "stand here, before me, the catalyst AI".
That the design hasn't been eradicated by the Reapers, well, on one hand, the Reapers are notoriously bad (or simply not concerned) with removing all traces of previous cycles from the galaxy – we find Prothean ruins all over the place, as well as some traces of previous cycles (lots of these in planet descriptions, but also things like the cave paintings in Leviathan). On the other hand, in the EC, the catalyst even states that it thought the Crucible plans to be eradicated, but he is surprised at the organics' resourcefulness – I'm sure Liara wasn't the only one ever to think of a time capsule to help the next cycle – Vendetta suggests this as well even.
Anyway, I'm not arguing against your opinion, you are totally entitled to that. I'm only arguing against this particular plotline being particularly bad writing – It is just not overly imaginative in its central theme (the "ancient super-weapon" trope), but it is not badly executed at all.
Jenonax wrote...
Thats a whole different problem. Suddenly there is a dramatic shift in who is in control of the narrative. The final is supposed to be driven by the Protagonist primarily and I would argue that absolutely no one is in control. Suddenly everything grinds to a halt because everyones given up, there is no conflict. Suddenly the protagonist and antagonist are on the same page with the antagonist handing over control to the protagonist and the protagonist going along with the logic and reasoning of the antagonist with very little rhyme or reason to do so. There is supposed to be conflict going on between these two! They're not supposed to having a weak willed conversation. No one wins! Shepard is handed a hollow victory without earning it and the villain is not defeated, he gives up! Where's the satisfying conclusion?
All good points, it really is not satisfying in a "We won, you lost" kind of way. Then again, the victory was reaching the Citadel and, despite all odds, dock the Crucible. Beyond that point, we only resolve the Cerberus arc (partly related to the Reapers via TIM's indoctrination, but actually more of a clash of (human) views). The catalyst pretty much took the wind out of our sails by solidifying that the only way for the Reapers to truly fail their goal would be by destroying all organics, which is the only outcome that would truly qualify as a failure for them. Thus, there is little room for an externalized conflict anymore, the situation is more akin to a clash of philosophies, but even that is diluted if you interpret the cycle as a solution the Reapers chose to buy them time for their experiments with evolution, as the Leviathan DLC hints at.
You certainly won by ending the cycle, but it's not a satisfying "standing atop a pile of Reaper corpses" kind of victory. It's more of an "I could achieve what you didn't manage to do in billions of years of your horrible cycles" kind of intellectual victory, and this is certainly a valid conclusion (to my mind), but I see how other people might have preferred a more tangible "slaying the villain" type of victory. Leviathan only adds to this by stating that it's only a war for us, but just a harvest for the Reapers, basically meaning that they are not even playing the game we are trying to win.
But again, this is all in the realm of interpretation. It truly is not a conventional video game victory, and if that's the bar you're measuring it against, then yes, it could be a lot better. Yet what it accomplishes is that people, right here on these forums, keep posting (despite all the "endings suck" repeats and eventual thread crashes) new interpretations or aspects by the day – Well, personally, I don't remember having ever played a game where I'm still looking at the story from new angles almost 6 months after completing it the first time, and that's not just the endings' accomplishment, but everything that came before as well. Sure, there are areas of the story that are a bit convoluted or riddled with plotholes, but I don't think the core narrative is – it's controversial for sure, but not badly executed.
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Bi0Dr0ne
