64 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

Withidread wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Let go of what? EA never had bioware by a leash or restrained the studio in anyway.Dragon age 2 was released to quickly capitalize on origins success and Mass effect's former lead writer retired, nothing to do with EA.EA stopped the management practice of rushing their development studios in 2008 under the superb leadership of  John Riccitiello.

From Wikipedia: "In early 2008, current CEO John
Riccitiello stated that [the purchase and control of studios] by EA was
wrong and that the company now gives acquired studios greater autonomy
without "meddling" in their corporate culture." Source

EA isn't the "Evil empire" many gamers believe it to be.If they'd bother to check their facts once in blue moon maybe they wouldn't be so full of hate and bias.Our current community queen, jessica merizan tried to reach out to the gamer masses recently during a AMAA via reddit about some of her Ideas to build a perfect community but she never got a chance to voice them because of ignorant gamer hatred for EA.

Very well put. All the hate is unnecessary. Also, the only thing the stress from all that hate accomplishes is to shorten lifespans.

I completely agree, everyone needs to chill, that's why I try to curtail some of the rage when I can.

[LinksOcarina]

Withidread wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Let go of what? EA never had bioware by a leash or restrained the studio in anyway.Dragon age 2 was released to quickly capitalize on origins success and Mass effect's former lead writer retired, nothing to do with EA.EA stopped the management practice of rushing their development studios in 2008 under the superb leadership of  John Riccitiello.

From Wikipedia: "In early 2008, current CEO John
Riccitiello stated that [the purchase and control of studios] by EA was
wrong and that the company now gives acquired studios greater autonomy
without "meddling" in their corporate culture." Source

EA isn't the "Evil empire" many gamers believe it to be.If they'd bother to check their facts once in blue moon maybe they wouldn't be so full of hate and bias.Our current community queen, jessica merizan tried to reach out to the gamer masses recently during a AMAA via reddit about some of her Ideas to build a perfect community but she never got a chance to voice them because of ignorant gamer hatred for EA.

Very well put. All the hate is unnecessary. Also, the only thing the stress from all that hate accomplishes is to shorten lifespans.

While I wouldn't call Riccitello a superb leader, I would say that a lot of the ire EA gets is due to their track record and the presumption that the trend will continue. Since 2008 they have reshuffled employees and only closed down two studios and eight other facilities, the most well known being Pandemic. Most of this is due to weak sales overall, but keep in mind from 2008-2010, sales for games were down in a majority of major publishers, mostly due to the economic recession. 

Personally, the hate is more about the past and fear that it is repeating itself, which it clearly isent because BioWare is still around and has their leadership intact as far as I know. 

[stonemyst]

I for one loved the story in Origins and wanted to continue the wardens story. I played Da2 I liked it as it gave another aspect to the world of Dragon age. I expect we will see several DLC's or Many aspects of the world with thier own story in the 100yr timeline of Dragon age. I dont think we will get any warden continued games for now. I think they want to continue Hawkes story. I hope to see Shale and get more deeproads. We know the Wardens go to far in there quest to ride the world of Darkspawn and darkspawn are evil, but were do they come from and maybe the mages can free them selves from the rule of the templars. I hope the next DA has the fill in the gap give us the seekers story of what they found on the warden and wardens and what they think of hawke then move on the story of all 3

[Silfren]

stonemyst wrote...

I for one loved the story in Origins and wanted to continue the wardens story. I played Da2 I liked it as it gave another aspect to the world of Dragon age. I expect we will see several DLC's or Many aspects of the world with thier own story in the 100yr timeline of Dragon age. I dont think we will get any warden continued games for now. I think they want to continue Hawkes story. I hope to see Shale and get more deeproads. We know the Wardens go to far in there quest to ride the world of Darkspawn and darkspawn are evil, but were do they come from and maybe the mages can free them selves from the rule of the templars. I hope the next DA has the fill in the gap give us the seekers story of what they found on the warden and wardens and what they think of hawke then move on the story of all 3

It's been made pretty clear from Bioware that Hawke's story is done. 

[Silfren]

cJohnOne wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I think one of the reasons waiting is more difficult is because we want some sort of news that confirms our hopes that DA3 will be the Origins sequel we always wanted. We desperately want it to be better than DA2, because if that game hit it out of the park like Origins did, DA3 wouldn't be in such high demand.

That doesn't make sense.  DA3 isn't in high demand because DA2 tanked.  

I'd argue that there isn't actually a great deal of demand for DA3 given how many people here have expressed such a total loss of faith that they are done with the DA series, or are at least extremely wary of buying DA3 until after they hear public opinion about it.  Even so, had DA2 been as popular as Origins, DA3 would be in EXTREMELY high demand right now.  Wildly popular games create greater interest and anticipation for sequels, not less.

If your waiting for DAOpart2 I think you'll be waiting a long time.   As far as demand that depends how many copies you expecting to sell.  You might be right but I doubt it.   Hmm maybe someone else can reply better.

Maybe read my comment again?  I was addressing the idea that DA3 is in high demand specifically because DA2 sucked. I didn't say a word about waiting for DAOPart2, and I neither wanted nor expected DA2 to be such, just as I don't for DA3, so I can't imagine why you'd mention that.

[Silfren]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I think one of the reasons waiting is more difficult is because we want some sort of news that confirms our hopes that DA3 will be the Origins sequel we always wanted. We desperately want it to be better than DA2, because if that game hit it out of the park like Origins did, DA3 wouldn't be in such high demand.

That doesn't make sense.  DA3 isn't in high demand because DA2 tanked.  

I'd argue that there isn't actually a great deal of demand for DA3 given how many people here have expressed such a total loss of faith that they are done with the DA series, or are at least extremely wary of buying DA3 until after they hear public opinion about it.  Even so, had DA2 been as popular as Origins, DA3 would be in EXTREMELY high demand right now.  Wildly popular games create greater interest and anticipation for sequels, not less.

I should have been more speicific. I meant DA3 info is in high demand. Despite public protest against the company and it's publisher, people are interested to see what direction BioWare will go with DA3.

Ah.  I think the thing is simply that more people actually LIKED DA2 than its detractors care to admit.  I don't think DA3 is in demand from those who were sorely disappointed by DA2.  At least not according to what I've read here.  I can't think of anyone I've read who hated DA2 yet is excited for DA3.  Rather, I think that quite a lot of people DID like DA2, and are becoming more and more vocal about their enthusiasm for DA3 as time passes.

[cJohnOne]

Silfren wrote...

cJohnOne wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I think one of the reasons waiting is more difficult is because we want some sort of news that confirms our hopes that DA3 will be the Origins sequel we always wanted. We desperately want it to be better than DA2, because if that game hit it out of the park like Origins did, DA3 wouldn't be in such high demand.

That doesn't make sense.  DA3 isn't in high demand because DA2 tanked.  

I'd argue that there isn't actually a great deal of demand for DA3 given how many people here have expressed such a total loss of faith that they are done with the DA series, or are at least extremely wary of buying DA3 until after they hear public opinion about it.  Even so, had DA2 been as popular as Origins, DA3 would be in EXTREMELY high demand right now.  Wildly popular games create greater interest and anticipation for sequels, not less.

If your waiting for DAOpart2 I think you'll be waiting a long time.   As far as demand that depends how many copies you expecting to sell.  You might be right but I doubt it.   Hmm maybe someone else can reply better.

Maybe read my comment again?  I was addressing the idea that DA3 is in high demand specifically because DA2 sucked. I didn't say a word about waiting for DAOPart2, and I neither wanted nor expected DA2 to be such, just as I don't for DA3, so I can't imagine why you'd mention that.

I was talking to epicboots2theface in the DAO2 part. sorry about the confusion

[CELL55]

I can only hope that they are giving DA3 more time, because it really needs it. Running through repetitive dungeons with a railroad plot in DA2 should not have happened. Whenever they plan on releasing DA3, I hope that they add another year to that deadline. After the abomination that was ME3 and the poor performance of DA2, Bioware really need to make a fan-freaking-tastic game if they want me to keep buying from them.

[jbrand2002uk]

I for one enjoyed DA2 much more than DAO sure DA2 has its flaws but overall i found it way more entertaining where DAO became one big dull slog after Ostagar it does suprise me that many of the DAO fans complain about DA2 being a series of fetch/FEDEX quests because DAO was one big fetch quest( go to 4 cities and fetch 4 smaller armies to make one big army)

[Cultist]

jbrand2002uk wrote...
I for one enjoyed DA2 much more than DAO sure DA2 has its flaws but overall i found it way more entertaining where DAO became one big dull slog after Ostagar it does suprise me that many of the DAO fans complain about DA2 being a series of fetch/FEDEX quests because DAO was one big fetch quest( go to 4 cities and fetch 4 smaller armies to make one big army)

And Neverwinter Nights is one big fetch quest - go to Neverwinter and bring 4 ingredients.
And Baldur's Gate 2 is one big fetch quest - go to different location and get your soul back
DAO fans complained that DA2 was FEDEX as part of much bigger failure.

[Beerfish]

I don't really think any of the recent BioWAre games have been overly rushed. I do however see a change in a few things that really seem to have other finger prints all over it. Logically that is EA.

[Beerfish]

Cultist wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...
I for one enjoyed DA2 much more than DAO sure DA2 has its flaws but overall i found it way more entertaining where DAO became one big dull slog after Ostagar it does suprise me that many of the DAO fans complain about DA2 being a series of fetch/FEDEX quests because DAO was one big fetch quest( go to 4 cities and fetch 4 smaller armies to make one big army)

And Neverwinter Nights is one big fetch quest - go to Neverwinter and bring 4 ingredients.
And Baldur's Gate 2 is one big fetch quest - go to different location and get your soul back
DAO fans complained that DA2 was FEDEX as part of much bigger failure.

Just about every RPG is loaded with fetch quests, even the really well thought of ones like fallout(s) and Planecape torment.

[Wulfram]

I don't think that defining "fetch quest" so broadly is useful. It's for basic quests where you just go grab something and then give it to the guy who wanted it, it can't be applied to so complex plots as the DA:O main quests, or to the DA2 main quests either.

DA2's main problem with fetch quests was trying to be funny with the "find random stuff, bring them to owner" quests. I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a witty comment/lampshade hanging on the sillyness of such ubiquitous quests in RPGs, but the problem was the joke wore thin by half way through Act 1 and they just felt particularly stupid. And because of the format they were also easy to just stumble across, whereas DA:O's more pointless side quests were largely confined to the boards and thus easy to ignore.

[Vox Draco]

Wulfram wrote...
DA2's main problem with fetch quests was trying to be funny with the "find random stuff, bring them to owner" quests. I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a witty comment/lampshade hanging on the sillyness of such ubiquitous quests in RPGs, but the problem was the joke wore thin by half way through Act 1 and they just felt particularly stupid. And because of the format they were also easy to just stumble across, whereas DA:O's more pointless side quests were largely confined to the boards and thus easy to ignore.

Sure? I will disagree here. As much as I am a friend to find something "positive" or intended about DA2's many flaws and shortcomings...but these fetchquests...well, when I take a look at Mass Effect 3 and its "eavesdropping-quests" I somehow see a trend/similarity here...

For me it more seems like Bioware thought it a wonderful idea to have many quests to make the game look "bigger" than it actually was, while at the same time some analysts told them that most players skipped the quest-text/dialogues anyway, so why bother with having elaborate quests, just have someone wanting something, skip the rest, go to the basics...

And so they killed much atmosphere and made Shepard's/Hawke's journey quite ridiculous sometimes

But to be fair: It started all in DAO with the chantry-board-quests. I hope they will rethink that. I'd rather have less quests, but more of them, longer-winded, more intertwined and complex than just stuumbling across of smelly boots someone I never saw before wants and gives me 10 sovereigns for them...

[Wulfram]

I believe these sorts of quest take effectively no resources, so I doubt you would even get a single proper quest for all the little quests.

But the effect on the atmosphere was problematic in DA2 yes. That's why DA:O's method was better - you could just ignore the quest boards, and they weren't so silly anyway because they at least didn't rely on telepathy.

Modifié par Wulfram, 03 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[Mr Fixit]

Vox Draco wrote...

But to be fair: It started all in DAO with the chantry-board-quests. I hope they will rethink that. I'd rather have less quests, but more of them, longer-winded, more intertwined and complex than just stuumbling across of smelly boots someone I never saw before wants and gives me 10 sovereigns for them...

While I have no particular love for DA:O board quests, at least BioWare worked a bit on those. You had flavour text that helped ground them in reality, at least a bit.

Also, they were truly optional: you could just give those boards a wide berth and everything was dandy.

[Beerfish]

The reason there are so many meaningless fetch it quests in games is developers need to find a way to level up the player in an even manner. I have to admit I really like BG1 where levelling up took a long time and it was a big deal to actually gain a level. With games now you level up every 1/2 hour of play or less.

[LinksOcarina]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Vox Draco wrote...

But to be fair: It started all in DAO with the chantry-board-quests. I hope they will rethink that. I'd rather have less quests, but more of them, longer-winded, more intertwined and complex than just stuumbling across of smelly boots someone I never saw before wants and gives me 10 sovereigns for them...

While I have no particular love for DA:O board quests, at least BioWare worked a bit on those. You had flavour text that helped ground them in reality, at least a bit.

Also, they were truly optional: you could just give those boards a wide berth and everything was dandy.

Now, what are we categorizing as fetch quests in Dragon Age II exactly before I say all fetch quests are optional in the end. 

[Spankoman]

I think "it's done when it's done" is the smartest thing they can do right now, if that's the leash they've been given. New announcements from BioWare are going to be tainted by the trendy negativity surrounding their most recent stuff. Just wait and make a comeback.

It wouldn't hurt to polish the crap out of DA3, either.

[Leoroc]

My guess is it is more like the WotC/Hasbro situation with D&D4e. Bioware leadership wanting to prove their value to the new bosses take stupid risks which backfire horribly, and now have to do a bootlegger's turn.

[Fast Jimmy]

Regardless of EA's involvement or policy, the method for developing DLC is completely different than a full game. DLC is almost completely story and level based. They rarely offer new mechanics or game engine developments, they are strictly new maps, quests and characters. These take less time to make smooth, especially in the less resource-intensive months after a full release.

Besides, the markedly improved Legacy DLC did not prevent glaring faults in ME3's full game, so I don't know why mixed reviews on Leviathan or the EC would have any bearing of DA3's release.

[Chiramu]

This should've been the motto when they made all the previous games imo.
But at least it's happening now, even if it's a little too late since EA would've lost a lot of invested money cause they are so GREEDY.

[Ianamus]

I think the longer gap between DA2 and DA3 is at least partly due to more resources being put into developing SWToR, slowing the initial stages of production for DA3.

[Leoroc]

EJ107 wrote...

I think the longer gap between DA2 and DA3 is at least partly due to more resources being put into developing SWToR, slowing the initial stages of production for DA3.

I highly doubt that. The studios are so separate they are practically different companies. It is more because they have to go back to a longer development cycle to avoid things like reusing maps. DAO took what, 5 years to develop? Elder Scroll games have five year gaps too. I would expect DA3 to be early 2015, MAYBE late 2014. Nothing to do with SWTOR though (which is done, and does not need a huge live team. Hence the layoffs)

[IanPolaris]

Leoroc wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

I think the longer gap between DA2 and DA3 is at least partly due to more resources being put into developing SWToR, slowing the initial stages of production for DA3.

I highly doubt that. The studios are so separate they are practically different companies. It is more because they have to go back to a longer development cycle to avoid things like reusing maps. DAO took what, 5 years to develop? Elder Scroll games have five year gaps too. I would expect DA3 to be early 2015, MAYBE late 2014. Nothing to do with SWTOR though (which is done, and does not need a huge live team. Hence the layoffs)

I don't doubt it at all.  EA certain does have the authority and proven willingness to shuffle people from production lines that are less valuable to ones that are more, and the studies are NOT different companies even within the 'EA' family  IIRC they are both Bioware.  Frankly I've heard the same rumor myself, i.e. DA personelle have been taken out of DA and put into SWTOR and THAT was why the DA2 expansion was cancelled (at least officially) and why DA3 has been slowed down.

EA demands that games be brought out at regular intervals.  It's how EA does it's business.  To assume that they are changing it just for DA3 seems....unrealistic and unlikely.  Rather, I don't think DA3 is being given "time enough" to develope properly.  I think that resources are being pulled from DA and that mandates a longer dev time...and which case it's not a good sign and it's far from "it's done when it's done".

-Polaris