Darkest before the dawn.
#51
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 02:19
As for ME3 as a whole, there was a lot of good, but there was a lot of bad.
#52
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 02:25
Blind2Society wrote...
10/10 Would read again. Great post OP.
As for ME3 as a whole, there was a lot of good, but there was a lot of bad.
Thank you very much.
There was indeed things in ME3 that I didn't like but there was a lot that I loved. If a game was perfect than there wouldn't be anymore reason to advance the story. In a way we can all say that "Perfect' is boring. This is most likely why I never really liked Miranda. While I acknowledge she had flaws, there was too much flaunting on her end about being perfect in every way. Personality is why we love characters, her personality just wasn't what I like.
Noted and respected.
/salute
#53
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 02:41
#54
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 02:51
xBl4ck0p5x wrote...
/salute
Noted and respected, even if short and sweet.
/salute
#55
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 02:53
People can agree or disagree with my list as is their right (and I'm coming up with this list as I type so I may miss things)
Good
- Multiplayer
- Characters (most, definitely not all)
- Tuchanka
- Rannoch (partially, Tali reveal should have happened when she had "this")
- The Citadel (the ambiance and minor conversations)
- Leviathan
- Music (great as always)
- Scenery
- Some other missions were good but not really worthy of individual note.
I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that's what I can come up with as I type
Bad
- Auto-dialog (way to toss out the best part of Mass Effect)
- No longer my Shepard
- No more mini-games
- No exploration
- Fetch quests in place of real quest (especially for places everyone has always wanted to visit)
- Kai Leng
- Liara is not my LI danm it! (I did really like the time capsule scene though)
- No Palavin!?
- Missed opportunities everywhere (example: Klencory)
- _______( <-- input your favorite ME2 squadmate there, I pick Kasumi) replaced by muscle man. He's not that bad but I would never pick him over Kasumi.
- ME3 EDI. I don't have a prob with the body (I like eye candy) but she should have stayed the normandy because she probably replaced someone else as a squady.
- Tali "reveal"
- That damn security door on the normandy
- Lack of Habinger
- Diana Allers (there was pontential with the character but god, every aspect was done terribly.
- EMS not playing it's proper role (if it played a role at all)
- The endings (or rather lack thereof)
- I'll just leave this blank in case I remember something ; )
That's what I can come up with as I type.
Sorry to possibly take this in a direction it wasn't meant to go but I just had to share. Anyway, I still think the OP was great and by the way, I can't help but agree with you about Miranda.
Modifié par Blind2Society, 04 septembre 2012 - 02:57 .
#56
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 03:31
Blind2Society wrote...
Don't mean to drag this somewhere it wasn't intended, but in my opinion, there was way too much bad. There was a lot of good, but again, way too much bad.
People can agree or disagree with my list as is their right (and I'm coming up with this list as I type so I may miss things)
Good
- Multiplayer
- Characters (most, definitely not all)
- Tuchanka
- Rannoch (partially, Tali reveal should have happened when she had "this")
- The Citadel (the ambiance and minor conversations)
- Leviathan
- Music (great as always)
- Scenery
- Some other missions were good but not really worthy of individual note.
I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that's what I can come up with as I type
Bad
- Auto-dialog (way to toss out the best part of Mass Effect)
- No longer my Shepard
- No more mini-games
- No exploration
- Fetch quests in place of real quest (especially for places everyone has always wanted to visit)
- Kai Leng
- Liara is not my LI danm it! (I did really like the time capsule scene though)
- No Palavin!?
- Missed opportunities everywhere (example: Klencory)
- _______( <-- input your favorite ME2 squadmate there, I pick Kasumi) replaced by muscle man. He's not that bad but I would never pick him over Kasumi.
- ME3 EDI. I don't have a prob with the body (I like eye candy) but she should have stayed the normandy because she probably replaced someone else as a squady.
- Tali "reveal"
- That damn security door on the normandy
- Lack of Habinger
- Diana Allers (there was pontential with the character but god, every aspect was done terribly.
- EMS not playing it's proper role (if it played a role at all)
- The endings (or rather lack thereof)
- I'll just leave this blank in case I remember something ; )
That's what I can come up with as I type.
Sorry to possibly take this in a direction it wasn't meant to go but I just had to share. Anyway, I still think the OP was great and by the way, I can't help but agree with you about Miranda.
It is no trouble, the only direction of this thread is respecting the thoughts of others relating to the story.
I agree with all of your good, your bad stuff I agree on with Harbinger, Diana Allers, THAT SECRUITY DOOR! oof, EDI would of been nice if she stayed with Joker. Rather of replaced EDI with Grunt or Wrex - Imagin taking Vega with one of them lol!.
But overall there is bad and there is good, just got to try, and find more of the good than the bad. But I can understand where it would be hard for some, it was fairly shocking to go from ME1 to ME3 to see some of the changes. Some very good and very much needed, others....not so much.
#57
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:03
I know that Bioware can never please everyone, but I hope they make the right decision whatever it may be. And only they know that.
I want to thank you for the most constructive post I have seen on these boards since I began browsing these before Mass Effect 3 came out.
#58
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:06
Dunabar wrote...
What is Mass Effect to us?
*reluctant snip*
I choose to wait and see what Bioware brings for us. I welcome the company of those who wish to join me in the wait and wish the best for those who choose to depart.
Wait to see what the dawn brings or depart from it all? The choice is yours.
*snip*
-Sign, Dunabar. Proud Member of the Mass Effect Community.
You are the Harvey Dent of the BSN community. Since it sounds to me you will be sticking around with us. I must warn you...
Watch out for the Joker.
Saans Shadow wrote...
This has made me smile today. I know how you feel. I enjoyed Leviathan, I enjoy MP. As far as I'm concerned ME is a great series with a great ending now that the EC clears enough for me to be happy. Any additions to the lore is welcome to me and if by some chance after all is said and done with and one of the theories turns out to be true I will welcome it even as a pro-ender and pro-synther.
You are.. *The Batman!* For when the two sides begin to quarrel and bicker with each other, the community can all turn to this one knight, this one.. beacon of hope and learn that sometimes, just sometimes.. People can actually just get along. Despite their differences in taste or opinion.
And because of this, we will hunt you, not because you're the hero the BSN deserves, and not because you're our hero at all. Because you're our guardian, our watchful protector. Our Dark Knight.
Modifié par Jade8aby88, 04 septembre 2012 - 04:07 .
#59
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:12
Holding the line, Sir! /salute
#60
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:20
XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...
I will say this, I was moved by your post. I have experienced a similar mindset throughout all of this. I felt deeply betrayed when the original endings hit me like a truck. Like many others, the EC helped fix a moderate amount of that. In the end however, it just isn't enough for me. I have too much emotional value invested in this series not to see it through to the end. And its not because of the Reapers, or my squadmates, it is the dedication I show to my Shepard. In my head, my Shepard's story can never end the way Mass Effect 3 left it, it's too depressing to me. Shepard as a character has meant more to me than any other video game character ever, and I value his image just as I would another actual person. As a realist, I enjoy the dark depressing ending that many movies and video games have chosen to take these days. I love Christopher Nolan's Batman films. But I never felt Mass Effect was that way. Mass Effect (to me) was always about inspiring others and uplifting them to defeat impossible odds no matter how dark and bleak the battle seemed. Shepard's story needs to have a dark, depressing ending, but it also needs to have a good, happy one. That's what Mass Effect was always about, differences in outcomes based on your decisions.I think that one of Bioware's many goals was to form this bond between the characters and the players, and I'm not ashamed to admit I have fallen for that ploy.
I know that Bioware can never please everyone, but I hope they make the right decision whatever it may be. And only they know that.
I want to thank you for the most constructive post I have seen on these boards since I began browsing these before Mass Effect 3 came out.
Happy to be of service and I know entirely how you feel.
It was always nice to feel that need to rise up and ultimately conquer that challenge presented to you. Even though it is possible to make peace between Quarians and Geth, my canon Shepard hasn't forgotten what the Geth did back on Eden Prime or the Citadel or anywhere else he had to fight them. Even though Legion was nice, my Shepard couldn't trust it, not after the things he saw. So when it came time for the final moment on Rannoch it only made sense that my Shepard would side with the Quarians over making peace between both races. But taking back Rannoch was also a personal goal he wanted to achieve for the one he loved, he may of not been able to move planets for her, but he could do what he could to give a planet back to her people for her.
My Soldier Shepard is not my canon Shepard but my Soldier Shepard is a pure Paragon, so I do everything I can to make peace with him. My Canon Shepard though is what I call and heard other people call, a Paragade. But what my canon Shepard was about, was proving that Organics can overcome their limitations. Even though you can call it a limitation that he couldn't look beyond the hardware and see the software of the Geth, you can at least say that he stuck true to his belief of organics overcoming the odds. He poured his heart and soul to get Rannoch back for the Quarians, even if in his heart he did it purely for Tali.
It is like I said though, Mass effect is many things to many people. Even with a lot of the love and the anger people show to Bioware, Bioware can at least smile in knowing that the community of Mass Effect has love for their game. Tomorrow may be the very end of Shepard or a new start for Shepard, only Bioware truly knows this.
Noted and respected greatly.
/salute
#61
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:29
Hrothdane wrote...
A great read. I'm always glad to see someone with a more positive attitude.
Holding the line, Sir! /salute
Will be right there beside you with the rest of our Brothers and Sisters of the N7's
/salute
#62
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:29
Sorry, BW, I've no interest in getting stung along any more.
#63
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:36
Jade8aby88 wrote...
Dunabar wrote...
What is Mass Effect to us?
*reluctant snip*
I choose to wait and see what Bioware brings for us. I welcome the company of those who wish to join me in the wait and wish the best for those who choose to depart.
Wait to see what the dawn brings or depart from it all? The choice is yours.
*snip*
-Sign, Dunabar. Proud Member of the Mass Effect Community.
You are the Harvey Dent of the BSN community. Since it sounds to me you will be sticking around with us. I must warn you...
Watch out for the Joker.
It's all good, I know its a long post and not everyone likes a quote pyramid. I will be around as long as Mass Effect continues to have a story, no matter if that story leads to the death of Shepard or the Galaxy as we know it being linked to other Galaxies. I will be along for the ride till the very end.
As for Joker, well...little hard with all this rubble on me but I think I heard the Normandy outside. I will have to go see sometime once this rubble is off of me.
Noted and respected.
/salute
#64
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:40
Obsidian Gryphon wrote...
I've departed from ME and moved on to other games. Finally. The DLCs frankly do not make much sense to me, it only added lore and does not affect the endings. Hence, I do not see the point of spending money to 'play' lore when I can read about it or even to repeat going through the lousy conclusions. The SP game and the story do not bring satisfaction. Why should I open myself up to more grief? Any future developments to the storyline thereafter Shepard is going to bring a borderline; yeah? So?
Sorry, BW, I've no interest in getting stung along any more.
Noted and Respected. It is understandable how its hard to even want to continue on with the series, but I hope that Bioware does make something that may make you curious enough to pick things up again. Wherever you feel is best for you, should be respected because only you know what is best for you.
/salute
#65
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 04:48
For me, ME1>ME2>ME3 always. It's unfortunate that this is the end of Shepard's story and all the characters we've come to know and love.
PS. Do you have a wallpaper sized version of that picture? Preferably in 1920x1200?
Modifié par SavagelyEpic, 04 septembre 2012 - 04:48 .
#66
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:02
Dunabar wrote...
It was always nice to feel that need to rise up and ultimately conquer that challenge presented to you. Even though it is possible to make peace between Quarians and Geth, my canon Shepard hasn't forgotten what the Geth did back on Eden Prime or the Citadel or anywhere else he had to fight them. Even though Legion was nice, my Shepard couldn't trust it, not after the things he saw. So when it came time for the final moment on Rannoch it only made sense that my Shepard would side with the Quarians over making peace between both races. But taking back Rannoch was also a personal goal he wanted to achieve for the one he loved, he may of not been able to move planets for her, but he could do what he could to give a planet back to her people for her.
My Soldier Shepard is not my canon Shepard but my Soldier Shepard is a pure Paragon, so I do everything I can to make peace with him. My Canon Shepard though is what I call and heard other people call, a Paragade. But what my canon Shepard was about, was proving that Organics can overcome their limitations. Even though you can call it a limitation that he couldn't look beyond the hardware and see the software of the Geth, you can at least say that he stuck true to his belief of organics overcoming the odds. He poured his heart and soul to get Rannoch back for the Quarians, even if in his heart he did it purely for Tali.
It is like I said though, Mass effect is many things to many people. Even with a lot of the love and the anger people show to Bioware, Bioware can at least smile in knowing that the community of Mass Effect has love for their game. Tomorrow may be the very end of Shepard or a new start for Shepard, only Bioware truly knows this.
Noted and respected greatly.
/salute
Exactly, I never played my Shepard as completely one sided Paragon or Renegade. The so called "Paragade" was always the best choice because it made Shepard real. A chance to identify with a make-believe story. I embrace the idea that no one is truly one way or the other. I was able to identify with Shepard by personifying this through him. And I failed to mention that I too was very enveloped in Shepard's love interest. It's another reason why I see the Reaper's as almost a background. They're there, they're important...but they aren't what you'lll remember. The foreground is always the focus, and I feel that Shepard's personal relationships were always the focus. While Shepard was a light in the darkness to everyone in the war, he never had that for himself. I've played Shepard's with Miranda, Ashley, and Liara as love interests. I;ve always felt that it enhances the story because Shepard needs someone to provide for him what he provides for the galaxy.
I am regretfully aware that no matter what happens, be it Shepard lives or dies in the end, I will not return to the Mass Effect series without him. I just won't be able to. In my eyes, they may as well rename the whole series "Commander Shepard". That's how important it is to me. To play a "Mass Effect" game without him would just be disheartening. I can't compare it to anything other than Halo without Master Chief (I hated ODST, but I have a soft spot for Arby), or Gears of War without Marcus Feenix. I'll even go as far as Dead Rising without Frank West. Once you have a central character that works for that game, for me personally replacing it will ruin it for me.
Once again, thank you for your post as well as your response. I felt that I needed to respond because I too feel that love interests are central to the story, and they have resonated with me far beyond many other things in Mass Effect.
#67
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:04
SavagelyEpic wrote...
PS. Do you have a wallpaper sized version of that picture? Preferably in 1920x1200?
I was thinkking the same thing.
#68
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:10
SavagelyEpic wrote...
I still haven't played the ending, and I don't think I will. ME3, while it definitely had it's good portions, wasn't all it could've been. If I hadn't played the first two games and become so deeply drawn into it, I'd probably think ME3 was great. But having had that experience and knowing what ME3 had the potential to become... It's a tad disappointing. But as far as I'm concerned, Shepard's story will never end - I'm not touching that ending. I still can't imagine why they didn't bring Karpynshyn back for ME3 - It's a sorrier game because of that, and especially because of Hudson. Too many inconsistencies and dropped lore points from the second and first games because Hudson ended up wrecking what Karpynshyn created.
For me, ME1>ME2>ME3 always. It's unfortunate that this is the end of Shepard's story and all the characters we've come to know and love.
PS. Do you have a wallpaper sized version of that picture? Preferably in 1920x1200?
The part of your mind that brought interest to you about the Mass Effect series may very well be what brings you back as well. It is understandable why you feel the way you do, but tomorrow may bring something that changes everything for you. But only you know what will do it to change your mind, but no matter if you feel its time to pick things back up or just continue on without looking back is entirely up to you. Your reason is as valid and respectable as my reason to stay is, no better, no worse. Equal to every end, I wish you the best no matter where you feel is best for you.
Noted and respected.
/salute
PS: No sadly I do not, I googled that image.
Modifié par Dunabar, 04 septembre 2012 - 05:10 .
#69
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:17
#70
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:29
XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...
Exactly, I never played my Shepard as completely one sided Paragon or Renegade. The so called "Paragade" was always the best choice because it made Shepard real. A chance to identify with a make-believe story. I embrace the idea that no one is truly one way or the other. I was able to identify with Shepard by personifying this through him. And I failed to mention that I too was very enveloped in Shepard's love interest. It's another reason why I see the Reaper's as almost a background. They're there, they're important...but they aren't what you'lll remember. The foreground is always the focus, and I feel that Shepard's personal relationships were always the focus. While Shepard was a light in the darkness to everyone in the war, he never had that for himself. I've played Shepard's with Miranda, Ashley, and Liara as love interests. I;ve always felt that it enhances the story because Shepard needs someone to provide for him what he provides for the galaxy.
I am regretfully aware that no matter what happens, be it Shepard lives or dies in the end, I will not return to the Mass Effect series without him. I just won't be able to. In my eyes, they may as well rename the whole series "Commander Shepard". That's how important it is to me. To play a "Mass Effect" game without him would just be disheartening. I can't compare it to anything other than Halo without Master Chief (I hated ODST, but I have a soft spot for Arby), or Gears of War without Marcus Feenix. I'll even go as far as Dead Rising without Frank West. Once you have a central character that works for that game, for me personally replacing it will ruin it for me.
Once again, thank you for your post as well as your response. I felt that I needed to respond because I too feel that love interests are central to the story, and they have resonated with me far beyond many other things in Mass Effect.
Thank you for your reply and I am happy to provide a place here to show people that there are still understanding folks around here. I admit I can have my moments where I seem less than reasonable, but I am human like everyone else around here. (Unless our avatar pictures are our true pictures, if so I am apparently Tali...rutro!)
But its understandable why you wouldn't come back, you have a character you poured your very passion essence into, and to see that character possibly dead for good? It's very understandable how you could see little to no reason to return. We have a character that has become familiar to all of us and a character that we don't want to see go away. Even though I can move on with or without Shepard as my character, I will not forget what I experienced through Shepard. I agree also on the Paragade thing as you stated. Not that one sided Paragon or Renegade are not cool in their own rights, but the idea of a story character (if it is indeed Human) is to act Human. Pure Paragon or Pure Renegade are in my opinion awesome ideals of characters, but for me the love is the Paragade or Renegon who show strength and weakness at the same time.
Tomorrow there may just be more ruins in the Mass Effect setting for us all to look over, but tomorrow may also bring about new life to something we all have a love for. Whatever tomorrow may bring to us, I will wait to see. It is always Darkest before the dawn.
#71
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 05:34
Eterna5 wrote...
I like how people are trying to incite confrontation with their opinions and the op is totally stone walling them lol.
I will respect whatever thoughts or reasons behind their actions, even if I do not agree with them. Besides, they help bump my topic. *grins*
Happy you're enjoying the show though.
/salute
#72
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 06:21
Blind2Society wrote...
Good
- Multiplayer
- Characters (most, definitely not all)
- Tuchanka
- Rannoch (partially, Tali reveal should have happened when she had "this")
- The Citadel (the ambiance and minor conversations)
- Leviathan
- Music (great as always)
- Scenery
- Some other missions were good but not really worthy of individual note.
I'm sure I'm missing a thing or two but that's what I can come up with as I type
Bad
- Auto-dialog (way to toss out the best part of Mass Effect)
- No longer my Shepard
- No more mini-games
- No exploration
- Fetch quests in place of real quest (especially for places everyone has always wanted to visit)
- Kai Leng
- Liara is not my LI danm it! (I did really like the time capsule scene though)
- No Palavin!?
- Missed opportunities everywhere (example: Klencory)
- ME3 EDI. I don't have a prob with the body (I like eye candy) but she should have stayed the normandy because she probably replaced someone else as a squady.
- Tali "reveal"
- That damn security door on the normandy
- Lack of Habinger
- Diana Allers (there was pontential with the character but god, every aspect was done terribly.
- EMS not playing it's proper role (if it played a role at all)
- The endings (or rather lack thereof)
I'm using your post as a base for this, m'kay?
Everything you say is bad is good for someone else; everything you say is good is bad for someone else - I agree with some and disagree with some, so just agree to disagree. Anyway, none of that is important here, really.
What is important is that Bioware changed too much in ME3 partly in regard to the fan response to the earlier games without asking 'why this should be changed', and partly because they had their own vision which didn't suit a lot of players.
For example, they cut out all ground vehicles all together when a) a lot of people actually liked the Mako (it were the missions that sucked) and
Bioware envisioned to make the game 'flow' better, and give it more of a 'movie' feel. Well, that's all fine and dandy, except that they by doing so (that is, installing the auto dialogue) broke one of the most holy rules in RPGs - do not take away control from the player. If someone dies during the suicide mission in ME2, its because the player effed up, not because the game says so. Another example: In ME3 its impossible to hate synthetics ('how did we get here? The geth are better than this!') for example, thrusting Bioware's vision down our throats.
I never played ME3 without the EC, and I don't really have an issue with the end game (that much), but some of the ways the gameplay changed really bugged me. Mass Effect is supposed to be a RolePlaying Game. Not much role to play if someone plays for me, right?
#73
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 06:45
Grizzly46 wrote...
I'm using your post as a base for this, m'kay?
Everything you say is bad is good for someone else; everything you say is good is bad for someone else - I agree with some and disagree with some, so just agree to disagree. Anyway, none of that is important here, really.
What is important is that Bioware changed too much in ME3 partly in regard to the fan response to the earlier games without asking 'why this should be changed', and partly because they had their own vision which didn't suit a lot of players.
For example, they cut out all ground vehicles all together when a) a lot of people actually liked the Mako (it were the missions that sucked) andhated the Hammerhead. Somehow, Bioware came to the conclusion that all ground vehicles were bad, and that was certainly not the fans' feelings. This is due to a bad reaction to the fan reaction regarding ground vehicles. And this is not the only example - Bioware over-reacted in a lot of areas.
Bioware envisioned to make the game 'flow' better, and give it more of a 'movie' feel. Well, that's all fine and dandy, except that they by doing so (that is, installing the auto dialogue) broke one of the most holy rules in RPGs - do not take away control from the player. If someone dies during the suicide mission in ME2, its because the player effed up, not because the game says so. Another example: In ME3 its impossible to hate synthetics ('how did we get here? The geth are better than this!') for example, thrusting Bioware's vision down our throats.
I never played ME3 without the EC, and I don't really have an issue with the end game (that much), but some of the ways the gameplay changed really bugged me. Mass Effect is supposed to be a RolePlaying Game. Not much role to play if someone plays for me, right?
While it is indeed a pain to see what you love go away, its a beauty for another to see something come to replace it. You bring a respectful view to the story. I agree losing the choice of how to respond to a character was a kick in the shorts, it does help the game flow better. You really need a balance of flow and choice which sadly flow seemed to be in higher demand. It didn't kill the game for me, but I can understand how it can kill it for some or even make others smile.
It would be nice if Bioware would do (or do more) Polls on some of the things they plan to put in the game. But I also can see where that would slow down development, would also run the risk of losing purchases if some players didn't like anything at all going into the game. For Bioware to keep making DLC's and games they need money, so sadly there will be those times where something feels like a let down. I do not believe Bioware intends for the game to be bad, just hopes to please as many people as possible.
That is what makes Mass Effects story so powerful in a essence though, we go through the story differently to some people, and the same as others. We discover things we like and things we dislike, which the things we dislike tend to be what other people like. If we all liked the same thing or agreed on everything, then everything would be boring.
Noted and respected greatly.
/salute
#74
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 06:53
So I will join you and wait for the dawn, as the dawn will come some day!
And besides that I´m also a Tali lover..
#75
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 07:00
corsair27 wrote...
After reading through this I really believe that you are indeed a peacemaker..
So I will join you and wait for the dawn, as the dawn will come some day!
And besides that I´m also a Tali lover..
I am only a fan of a game that I feel is great. While the idea may not be shared by many, we do share the essence of having played in the Mass Effect setting. Happy to have you at my side with the rest of our Brothers and Sisters. Tali lover or other
/salute





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