233 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

llbountyhunter wrote...

yes, they can "see"

and even so, the collector ship in me2 was able to detect the normandy just fine during the suicide mission. I really dont think that the collectors (reaper pawns) have better sensors than the reapers themselfs.


not to mention that shepard and his squad were standing still right next to the normandy. they were able to have a nice chat and harbinger instead chose to fire at the running and more difficult targets.

 
sometimes I just wish bioware had gone with IT......

Seeing that most ships won't have Reaper IFFs, I don't see how that suddenly means that the Reapers have worst sensors than Collectors. The fact is that the Normandy has a tech which no one other ships do. It was the only ideal ship to land for quick extract. 

Put it this way: 

Which is stronger?

The limited organic eye that is endangered or blinded by a million variables or an all-seeing sensory detector that only fails if someone manages to kill a Reaper, work on weeks of research without being indoctrinated, extract IFF, and then get the IFF installed onto a ship. 

As for the last statement, I can see how Harbinger was busy knocking out the more dangerous threats like the fighters and Makos and chooisng to ignore three silly, little organics that are trying to evac, keeping in mind he was acknowledging the Normandy as a friendly for 15 whole seconds. 

Modifié par Savber100, 04 septembre 2012 - 12:11 .

[Astralify]

superblaze1 wrote...

dude really... in case you don't read threads before actually making one. this post is so underrated...

Normandy has Reaper IFF, that's why Harbringer will not attack. Harbringer also don't attack evac ships like Normandy. i'm pretty damn sure Harbringer picked up Shepard's transmissions to Normandy for evac, Harbringer knew he can't attack Normandy unless Shepard was ordering Normandy to fire on Harbringer. this is one of classic plots that's been around since early 20th century. "don't fire unless being fired upon."

read the threads first

So the reapers are just stupid robots? (not so independent and free of all weakness now, eh Sovereign?) Oh wait....

[Savber100]

Astralify wrote...

So the reapers are just stupid robots? (not so independent and free of all weakness now, eh Sovereign?) Oh wait....

Wait so now whatever Sovereign, the killer Reaper vanguard, says is truth now? wth? 

The Reapers may be powerful but they're hardly perfect in my opinion and no metallic space squid is going to persuade me otherwise. 

That said, that explanation is dumb. 

Reapers do take down evac... Remember the Earth scene? 

Modifié par Savber100, 04 septembre 2012 - 12:15 .

[halbert986]

Again with the IFF. If that's all the reapers see, then how in the blazes are they blasting all the little critters that have no signature either way? Harbinger seems to have pretty good aim when it comes to 6 foot tall humans, wearing grey armor, against a grey background, with a grey sky.

[Cassandra Saturn]

Savber100 wrote...

Astralify wrote...

So the reapers are just stupid robots? (not so independent and free of all weakness now, eh Sovereign?) Oh wait....

Wait so now whatever Sovereign, the killer Reaper vanguard, says is truth now? wth? 

The Reapers may be powerful but they're hardly perfect in my opinion and no metallic space squid is going to persuade me otherwise. 

That said, that explanation is dumb. 

Reapers do take down evac... Remember the Earth scene? 

i said Harbringer does not do that, other reapers will because Harbringer is first reaper and is oldest reaper

EDIT: i forgot to mention that rest of the ships in the fleet, even Alliance, Turians, Quarians, Geth do not HAVE Reaper IFF.

Modifié par superblaze1, 04 septembre 2012 - 12:19 .

[Menagra]

ok....to those who claim "harbinger won't fire upon thee until you fire upon them"

The reapers blew up 2 Kodak's full of civilians in the beginning of the story(they can't possibly fire). Hell the reapers are killing people in the billions! To claim harbinger would have some honor of not killing Normandy is just insane. Seriously, you need to not assume game creators are superior to fans because your devotion to them makes you look foolish.

Reaper IFF is another thing, but there's still Shepard disobeying Anderson. And it would make more sense if it happened BEFORE the run for the beacon, as harbinger is shooting like crazy until that cut scene.

[Savber100]

halbert986 wrote...

Again with the IFF. If that's all the reapers see, then how in the blazes are they blasting all the little critters that have no signature either way? Harbinger seems to have pretty good aim when it comes to 6 foot tall humans, wearing grey armor, against a grey background, with a grey sky.

You try to dodge a 10 ft wide laser beam that explodes upon impact on the ground while running down a narrow, linear path. Harbinger doesn't even have to aim as so much as spray. 

Second, Harbinger doesn't SEE or AIM. It senses. He senses several hundred organic beings that are "enemies" due to lack of reaper signature charging the beam. He places himself next to the beam and unleashes everything that approaches, clearing out anyone that is approaching. 

[sonicphoto]

infraredman wrote...

ok....to those who claim "harbinger won't fire upon thee until you fire upon them"

The reapers blew up 2 Kodak's full of civilians in the beginning of the story(they can't possibly fire). Hell the reapers are killing people in the billions! To claim harbinger would have some honor of not killing Normandy is just insane. Seriously, you need to not assume game creators are superior to fans because your devotion to them makes you look foolish.

Reaper IFF is another thing, but there's still Shepard disobeying Anderson. And it would make more sense if it happened BEFORE the run for the beacon, as harbinger is shooting like crazy until that cut scene.

It isn't about honor, is the fact that he doesn't want to kill Shepard, The catalyst needs him alive to get Synthesis done, The Catalyst considered now his new solution, no more no less. He can't activate the beam, but Shepard can. Harbinger obeys the catalyst. The normandy was on top of Shepard, if he shoots it, it will kill Shepard. Nobody survives the beam attack, except Shepard, we never get to see the beam fully hit him now on the EC, if it did, he would have been vaporized instantly. And the catalyst couldn't achieve the synthesis he is so crazy about.

[halbert986]

I just don't understand why bioware has to baby us. If you bring your love interest on that mission with you, your love interest dies. It's not hard to write a character death in to the future installments of the game. (Which btw is the only reason they would go to such lengths to prove your squad survived.)

It is not essential to the story that your whole squad live. Hell in ME2 it's possible for everyone, including shepard, to die. And that was just assaulting a measly collector base. But suddenly we have to write in this ridiculous work around and explanation for not only why they all lived, but why they abandoned you as well.

If they had time to pick up, why not drop off? Why are they even bothering fighting anywhere else? Send 100% of your forces at that beam. What good is the Normandy doing flying around shooting down reaper fighters?

[Zombie Inc 91]

Savber100 wrote...

Put it this way: 

Which is stronger?

The limited organic eye that is endangered or blinded by a million variables or an all-seeing sensory detector that only fails if someone manages to kill a Reaper, work on weeks of research without being indoctrinated, extract IFF, and then get the IFF installed onto a ship. 

As for the last statement, I can see how Harbinger was busy knocking out the more dangerous threats like the fighters and Makos and chooisng to ignore three silly, little organics that are trying to evac, keeping in mind he was acknowledging the Normandy as a friendly for 15 whole seconds. 

Modern day aircraft have lots of gauges and sensors that let them fly in the dark, bad weather and ease pilot strain. They still have windows so they can be flow without them. I'd have a hard time believing a reaper wouldn't have some kind other means of "seeing" the world. Even if Harbinger couldn't tell the Normandy wasn't a reaper, wouldn't seeing a reaper land next to him an not help out tip him off? He'd try to talk to it and get no response, right?

And we've seen the reaper capital ships firing off several shots in different directions at once. And here his targets are practically lining up for him to shoot. Couldn't he spare less than 5 seconds to hit the Normandy? A ship I'm sure he'd have flagged as a particular pain. Sorry, but I just don't see any reason he wouldn't notice the ship in front of him wasn't friendly and why he wouldn't shoot it.

[fchopin]

halbert986 wrote...

The most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in any video game, movie, or other form of entertainment was the Normandy coming to evac your squad right in the middle of the beam rush.

I will have to agree with this, i expected Bioware to fix some of the plot holes in the EC but instead they created the silliest scene i have ever seen in a game.
 
And what is even worse is that the running to the beam scene was perfect before the EC and now it is spoiled.
 
I will just have to shut my eyes and pretend the scene does not happen when i play the game.

[Astralify]

The IFF was supposed to be just a device that allowed you safe passage through the Omega relay. Not a plot armor. Also why did the oculus atacked the Normandy at the end of ME2 if the Normandy had the IFF? You are saying that some stupid defense mechanism is smarter than "Harby the reaper"? That's just stupid, and in my opinion just another desperate attempt to fill another plothole.

[BSpud]

I love trying to actually think through this Reaper IFF business.

So Harby is just standing there, blastin' fools that he can't even see because he isn't equipped with a differing array of multiple, simple, redundant, sensor suites (like ones that can detect things other than Reaper IFF signatures). When suddenly, he sees another reaper (his old pal, Derelict Reaper, who he hasn't seen in about 37 million years, natch) land in front of him. "Okay," he thinks. "Cool. Back up, yo." (For some reason, Harbinger's inner monologue voice is Jesse from Breaking Bad.) Harbinger apparently decides to stop blastin' invisible fools now, maybe thinking Derelict wants a turn, and, though a blood-lusting, intergalactic, cross-species mass murderer Harby may be, he's also very accommodating to his homies. "Hm," Harby murmurs to himself. "It seems Derelict is just choosing to idle by while--wait, what's this? Shepard and his injured squad are rushing over to Derelict now? What the hell is going on here? Oh, Shepard is evacuating her squadmates INTO THE DERELICT REAPER. K, I'm just going to keep standing here, being the socially-awkward looky-loo that I am, completely ignoring all the the Alliance troops who are still rushing the beam, who I can't even see btw. Oh, Derelict's taking off now. Well, there's Shepard, alone now, resuming her charge to the beam. Well sh*ts, best be back to blastin' fools which I cannot even see btw."

[halbert986]

And another thing I thought odd.. Why in the name of rice crispy squares do they cut away and give us a shot of Harbinger just patiently waiting?

It wouldn't have been hard to just loop the sound effects of lasers explosions and death and not bother showing his goofy face looking at you.

Shepard is the equivalent of the steward of gondor. "ABANDON YOUR POSTS!! FLEE!! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

[Astralify]

BeefheartSpud wrote...

I love trying to actually think through this Reaper IFF business.

So Harby is just standing there, blastin' fools that he can't even see because he isn't equipped with a differing array of multiple, simple, redundant, sensor suites (like ones that can detect things other than Reaper IFF signatures). When suddenly, he sees another reaper (his old pal, Derelict Reaper, who he hasn't seen in about 37 million years, natch) land in front of him. "Okay," he thinks. "Cool. Back up, yo." (For some reason, Harbinger's inner monologue voice is Jesse from Breaking Bad.) Harbinger apparently decides to stop blastin' invisible fools now, maybe thinking Derelict wants a turn, and, though a blood-lusting, intergalactic, cross-species mass murderer Harby may be, he's also very accommodating to his homies. "Hm," Harby murmurs to himself. "It seems Derelict is just choosing to idle by while--wait, what's this? Shepard and his injured squad are rushing over to Derelict now? What the hell is going on here? Oh, Shepard is evacuating her squadmates INTO THE DERELICT REAPER. K, I'm just going to keep standing here, being the socially-awkward looky-loo that I am, completely ignoring all the the Alliance troops who are still rushing the beam, who I can't even see btw. Oh, Derelict's taking off now. Well, there's Shepard, alone now, resuming her charge to the beam. Well sh*ts, best be back to blastin' fools which I cannot even see btw."

Yep, seems legit.

[Andy the Black]

blueumi wrote...

nothing to do with I T but i do think they want shepard alive or the body

if they blow the normandy up the ship would crash or parts of the ship and explosion would kill shepard

if the ending is true the goal of the reapers is still to get the best people from each cycle to work for them

shepard would be of grate use to the reapers who since mass effect 1 have wanted shepard

saren did say that shepard impressed them and that they should join the reapers

so i think that is why he did not shoot down the ship

If they wanted to keep Shep alive they had a funny way of showing it; Havng the Collectors destroy the SR1 in Mass 2, then spending the rest of the game trying to kill him/her again. Playing lethal tag with the SR2 in Mass 3. I felt that they took Shep's success against them as an insult. They would use him/her if they could, but mostly they just wanted him/her dead.

[Paultheoctopus]

By the way, in addition to the Normandy landing... why in gods name could they not have just ****ing shot harbinger while they were on the ground. I mean the Normandy has thanix cannons, that could blow the **** out of harby. Seriously, this plot hole is even bigger than pre-ec

[Paultheoctopus]

BeefheartSpud wrote...

I love trying to actually think through this Reaper IFF business.

So Harby is just standing there, blastin' fools that he can't even see because he isn't equipped with a differing array of multiple, simple, redundant, sensor suites (like ones that can detect things other than Reaper IFF signatures). When suddenly, he sees another reaper (his old pal, Derelict Reaper, who he hasn't seen in about 37 million years, natch) land in front of him. "Okay," he thinks. "Cool. Back up, yo." (For some reason, Harbinger's inner monologue voice is Jesse from Breaking Bad.) Harbinger apparently decides to stop blastin' invisible fools now, maybe thinking Derelict wants a turn, and, though a blood-lusting, intergalactic, cross-species mass murderer Harby may be, he's also very accommodating to his homies. "Hm," Harby murmurs to himself. "It seems Derelict is just choosing to idle by while--wait, what's this? Shepard and his injured squad are rushing over to Derelict now? What the hell is going on here? Oh, Shepard is evacuating her squadmates INTO THE DERELICT REAPER. K, I'm just going to keep standing here, being the socially-awkward looky-loo that I am, completely ignoring all the the Alliance troops who are still rushing the beam, who I can't even see btw. Oh, Derelict's taking off now. Well, there's Shepard, alone now, resuming her charge to the beam. Well sh*ts, best be back to blastin' fools which I cannot even see btw."

Perhaps they should have had Aaron Paul doing Harbingers voice as well. Thats how he was in the third game at least

[Toxic Waste]

Got to page 2 of this thread and just had to reply to this...

superblaze1 wrote...
"don't fire unless being fired upon."

So what your saying is all the galaxy has to do is lay down thier weapons and stop fighting, thus the reapers cant shoot anyone cause no one is shooting at the reapers. Therefore they leave, we win.

WHAT?

(ok, back to page two.)

[grey_wind]

This scene is even more retarded when EDI is injured. Hell, her entire "mind" is in the damn Normandy, not the idiotic Sexbot body that she even says is expendable at the start of the game.

I agree with the OP. The characters you bring should have just inevitably died at the scene. It would be much better.

[KiwiQuiche]

thearbiter1337 wrote...

Pfft lmao yup that's the golden excuse there.

'Cause it's not like Reapers can just see or anything, like the Reaper on Tuchunka couldn't see Kalros or anything.

[halbert986]

grey_wind wrote...

This scene is even more retarded when EDI is injured. Hell, her entire "mind" is in the damn Normandy, not the idiotic Sexbot body that she even says is expendable at the start of the game.

I agree with the OP. The characters you bring should have just inevitably died at the scene. It would be much better.

I didn't even consider EDI since I never bring her anywhere. (Apparently neither did bioware) That makes it even worse. "My secondary platform has taken significant structural damage I will not be able to continue the mission, call for help."
- Couldn't you just remotely evacuate back to the normandy?
"What and lose my sexy body?"

[RadicalDisconnect]

halbert986 wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

This scene is even more retarded when EDI is injured. Hell, her entire "mind" is in the damn Normandy, not the idiotic Sexbot body that she even says is expendable at the start of the game.

I agree with the OP. The characters you bring should have just inevitably died at the scene. It would be much better.

I didn't even consider EDI since I never bring her anywhere. (Apparently neither did bioware) That makes it even worse. "My secondary platform has taken significant structural damage I will not be able to continue the mission, call for help."
- Couldn't you just remotely evacuate back to the normandy?
"What and lose my sexy body?"

Actually, the opposite happens.



Shepard: You gotta get out of here.
EDI: This body disposable.

And then, Shepard becomes even more stupid.

EDI: The Normandy's survival is not strategic.
Shepard: That's an order, EDI. A moral one.

Yeah, I was just facepalming so hard when I first saw it.

[Rommel49]

sonicphoto wrote...

It isn't about honor, is the fact that he doesn't want to kill Shepard, The catalyst needs him alive to get Synthesis done, The Catalyst considered now his new solution, no more no less. He can't activate the beam, but Shepard can. Harbinger obeys the catalyst. The normandy was on top of Shepard, if he shoots it, it will kill Shepard. Nobody survives the beam attack, except Shepard, we never get to see the beam fully hit him now on the EC, if it did, he would have been vaporized instantly. And the catalyst couldn't achieve the synthesis he is so crazy about.

That doesn't make sense either. If he wanted Shepard to go Synthesis from that point onward, why not simply have the Reapers stop damaging the Crucible? Hell, if EMS is too low, Synthesis isn't even an option (which it should never be).

Of course, it kinda does validate the Marauder Shields idea after I got smoked by Harby... he really was trying to protect me from the ending when he shot me.

And of course, as I've pointed out, it's doubly ridiculous that the Allied Fleet in orbit never fires on Harbinger either; even ignoring the fact the Alliance identified it as the oldest reaper in the armada and the leader of the attack on Earth, it's keeping everyone from reaching the critical objective at the single most decisive point in the war. There's no way you'd ignore a target like that after it just put itself in the open.

The only way I rationalize it without IT is that I'm so damn good I just stared him down, I just held back the entire war "I'll be with you in a bit, and if you screw with me or my people right now, I swear I will march over there and tie all of your legs in a knot with my bare hands".

[Jadebaby]

Savber100 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Uhh Reapers don't "see", they sense through a friend/foe system hence the Reaper IFF system. This is something that people keep failing to understand as they keep thinking that Reapers "see" like organics. 

It's the same reason why the Normandy was able to escape Earth relatively intact even with a destroyer next to it. 

What exactly is wrong with this explanation? 

There's plenty of ME3 plotholes but this is just not one of them. 

I was being silly. See my first answer "This, actually."

Hence why I got rid of the quotes. 

But honestly it surprises me that people thought this was a plothole. 

Almost as bad when this one poster kept ****ing about how the EC epilogue scenes were a plothole because they weren't shown in order etc. 

lol nothing in the ending is shown in order, the breath scene and Normandy scene included.

I think people are just jumping on the 'plot hole' bandwagon because it is really just a great coincidence that they could use the Reaper IFF for that purpose lol.