28 réponses à ce sujet

[kennydahl]

 Hi all,

I appreciate this may be a really niche topic, but my day job involves working with younger people who have neurological disorders (Multiple Sclerosis, Huntington's Disease etc).  Some of these guys and gals were/are gamers, but struggle somewhat with some games as their condition progresses with visual perception and fine motor control.  This of course makes gaming harder.  PC is a bit easier as there are more custom input options/virtual overlay keyboards etc.  However Xbox is a bit order to make truly accessible via external means only. 

One of the chaps I work with is a *big* fan of dragon age and bioware games generally.  He was mentioning that it was great with ME3 and the kinect support as it gave him more input options (his voice is fine).  Anyone know if this type of thing might be coming to DA3, or (for that matter) if Bioware builds in any disability accessibility design and play testing into their development process?

I appreciate this might go off topic intop more general disability gaming, but I was more interested in a discussion about DAIII and how the type of game design could make the game itself more accessible - maybe Bioware might even take notice (if they don't do it already of course!).



 

[LadyJaneGrey]

I haven't heard any specifics about integrating Kinect in the next DA installment.  Of course, the developers have not even officially announced another game yet.  :innocent:

I remember Origins won an award from Ablegamers for its ease of use (good subtitles, the ability to pause combat and then set it into motion when the player is ready, etc).  I don't have the specific problems your clients face, but I do deal with chronic pain conditions that make repetitive motions and "twitchier" game play difficult at times.

Using Kinect voice commands sounds would be a great option for DA.  Did he mention any other ideas?

[kennydahl]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Using Kinect voice commands sounds would be a great option for DA.  Did he mention any other ideas?

He did mention the use of macros and behaviours in game that can be triggered automatically as being helpful.  He said that the 'tactics' slots helped him not have to worry about urgent or 'twitchy' orders to the party.  I really hope they stay for the next game.

He also woudl like more control of text size as his vision deteriorates.  You can do so much with resolutions and larger monitors, but the ability to up text size substantially is definatley what he's looking for.

I know another guy who is far more impaired who is waiting for kinect (or it's successor) to develop to the stage where it can pick up eye/iris movement and accept commands from it.  There is some software for the PC that does this already - but trying to integrate it into complex software like games is a bloody nightmare...although it is starting to be looked at seriously - see this link  - be warned it's really lengthy and acadmic, but it gives a good summary of things.

Modifié par kennydahl, 03 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Kidd]

These all seem like very worthy causes =)

[kennydahl]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

These all seem like very worthy causes =)

Absolutley! Gaming is one of the very few activities these guys can hold onto as their impairment increases.  Anything that can keep them part of the gaming community is worth it.

I'm not naive - some of the more advanced compatibility testing / integration for accessibility software/peripherals is probably not going to happen due to business economics, but some design decisions to help disabled gamers are easier to implement, and wouldn't have the same costs...

[Chiramu]

This sounds like a very neat idea of people with disabilities . It also might be good to write the protagonist to have some sort of physical or mental impairment as well, or something that you could put into the character in the character creator.

[kennydahl]

Chiramu wrote...

This sounds like a very neat idea of people with disabilities . It also might be good to write the protagonist to have some sort of physical or mental impairment as well, or something that you could put into the character in the character creator.

You know, I'd never really thought about that before, but one of the things that many people like in RPG's is the ability to put a bit of themselves into the protagonist.  Goes beyond game design mechanics and makes the *narrative* accessible as well...

Would be had to do well and not be patronising/slight...but worth exploring.  Nearest I can remember in a previous Bioware game was the character visas on kotor2 who was blind.  That was a bit of a cheat though as their was no impact to her visual impairment.

[Firky]

You're probably aware of this site, but Able Gamers is great. http://www.ablegamers.com/ Reviews of games with an eye to accessibility etc.

There are also organisations that make modified controllers, tailored to client.

(But, games have the potential to be designed with helpful stuff in mind, too, to foster accessibility. Click to move is one feature that comes to mind, in DA.)

[kennydahl]

Firky wrote...

You're probably aware of this site, but Able Gamers is great. http://www.ablegamers.com/ Reviews of games with an eye to accessibility etc.

There are also organisations that make modified controllers, tailored to client.

(But, games have the potential to be designed with helpful stuff in mind, too, to foster accessibility. Click to move is one feature that comes to mind, in DA.)

It's a cracking site - we have an electronics guy locally who works for the NHS during the day doing environmental control systems for the disabled - he does custom game controls on the side.  Amazing how he can tweak peripherals to match individual needs...

[Firky]

People like that are awesome! And there are lots around!

I've experimented with a voice controller, but I was terrible with it. (Would need much more time.) Amazing piece of technology, though.

[MerAnne]

I would think that the point of playing an RPG would be to escape the real world (I know I do). Yes, I put part of myself into the protagonist, but I typically only put in the good qualities ;-) But that doesn't mean that there can't be a mentally or physically challenged Companion, Quest Giver, or 'general NPC'. And it would seem possible to do. Sandal is described as a 'savant' and the Tranquil have had their emotions removed.

I don't, personally, design/write games, but that doesn't mean that this topic isn't interesting. And asking for games that are accessible to those who have challenges is a good way to indicate interest in having games MADE accessible.

Before I send this, I think I might be wrong in saying that a challenged protagonist wouldn't work. If the player had to give up one attribute entirely to get a massive increase in another attribute.... In D&D (the type where real people sit down in one room to play), the front line fighters try to draw attacks because the magic users are going to become unconscious/dead if they receive too many direct attacks (sometimes ONE attack is enough to knock out the magic user). The fighters are protecting the magic users because they can provide healing or truly MASSIVE damage. Working as a team will win. If the team is balanced strengths and weaknesses, it might be possible to do without being patronizing.

[PsychoBlonde]

kennydahl wrote...

I know another guy who is far more impaired who is waiting for kinect (or it's successor) to develop to the stage where it can pick up eye/iris movement and accept commands from it.  There is some software for the PC that does this already - but trying to integrate it into complex software like games is a bloody nightmare...although it is starting to be looked at seriously - see this link  - be warned it's really lengthy and acadmic, but it gives a good summary of things.

My dad actually works on developing hardware that lets you wear some electrodes on your scalp (it kinda looks like a swiming cap) and control a computer by thinking at it.  The computer can also monitor you for stress/overload and start doing things like prioritizing information presented.  Currently they're working on it to enable operators to run many combat drones simultaneously, but no reason it can't eventually migrate into gaming.

[FaWa]

Woah. So maybe ME3 was really better with Kinect

[Emzamination]

Probably but don't get your hopes up as there isn't a big enough market or budget to devote resources to that sort of thing.Dragon age is very pause and play tactics heavy, you might want to consider getting your students some games more their speed.

[Realmzmaster]

Emzamination wrote...

Probably but don't get your hopes up as there isn't a big enough market or budget to devote resources to that sort of thing.Dragon age is very pause and play tactics heavy, you might want to consider getting your students some games more their speed.

In the original post the poster stated that one of the people he is helping was a big fan of Dragon Age. The disability has made it harder for that person to play the game. It is not a matter of being up to speed, but having developers where they can provide accessibility to their games. This in turn widens their market. 

Madden 13 uses Kinect to call plays. (the game has a 6,000 word input vocabulary) This helps those who have trouble using a control enjoy the game. It is not limited to those who have severe disabilities. Anyone with a physical problem such as arthritis can benefit.

Madden13 is an EA product, so the technology is there and in use. The same system could be used to control a DA party.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 04 septembre 2012 - 08:20 .

[WardenWade]

kennydahl wrote...

 Hi all,

I appreciate this may be a really niche topic, but my day job involves working with younger people who have neurological disorders (Multiple Sclerosis, Huntington's Disease etc).  Some of these guys and gals were/are gamers, but struggle somewhat with some games as their condition progresses with visual perception and fine motor control.  This of course makes gaming harder.  PC is a bit easier as there are more custom input options/virtual overlay keyboards etc.  However Xbox is a bit order to make truly accessible via external means only. 

One of the chaps I work with is a *big* fan of dragon age and bioware games generally.  He was mentioning that it was great with ME3 and the kinect support as it gave him more input options (his voice is fine).  Anyone know if this type of thing might be coming to DA3, or (for that matter) if Bioware builds in any disability accessibility design and play testing into their development process?

I appreciate this might go off topic intop more general disability gaming, but I was more interested in a discussion about DAIII and how the type of game design could make the game itself more accessible - maybe Bioware might even take notice (if they don't do it already of course!).

This is a great point, kennydahl!  Kotaku had an article today on this topic in general that might be interesting

http://kotaku.com/59...gamers-can-play

[deuce985]

I'm all for this.

All the more reason DA3 needs to be toned down and less twitch gaming too...

[Fredward]

Emzamination wrote...

Probably but don't get your hopes up as there isn't a big enough market or budget to devote resources to that sort of thing.Dragon age is very pause and play tactics heavy, you might want to consider getting your students some games more their speed.

<_<


I like to think that gaming companies are going to focus at least some attention on inclusivity in this regard soon, I'm not sure how true that is, but I really do hope so it's definitely something that needs some attention.

[MichaelStuart]

I support having multiple ways to play games.

[Chiramu]

kennydahl wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

This sounds like a very neat idea of people with disabilities . It also might be good to write the protagonist to have some sort of physical or mental impairment as well, or something that you could put into the character in the character creator.

You know, I'd never really thought about that before, but one of the things that many people like in RPG's is the ability to put a bit of themselves into the protagonist.  Goes beyond game design mechanics and makes the *narrative* accessible as well...

Would be had to do well and not be patronising/slight...but worth exploring.  Nearest I can remember in a previous Bioware game was the character visas on kotor2 who was blind.  That was a bit of a cheat though as their was no impact to her visual impairment.

At the very least a mental disorder like depression would be very suitable for the protagonist, or bipolar. 
A lot of the dialogue that you get in Dragon Age would make a depressive personality go severely bad, so many meanly written comments :<.

[kennydahl]

WardenWade wrote...

This is a great point, kennydahl!  Kotaku had an article today on this topic in general that might be interesting

http://kotaku.com/59...gamers-can-play

Funnily enough - it was that article that prompted me to actually start the thread!

[WardenWade]

kennydahl wrote...

WardenWade wrote...

This is a great point, kennydahl!  Kotaku had an article today on this topic in general that might be interesting

http://kotaku.com/59...gamers-can-play

Funnily enough - it was that article that prompted me to actually start the thread!

I'm sorry for the confusion, kennydahl, and I'm glad you saw the article!   I hope DA3 continues the reputation for accessibility DA:O has

Modifié par WardenWade, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:59 .

[kennydahl]

WardenWade wrote...


I'm sorry for the confusion, kennydahl, and I'm glad you saw the article!   I hope DA3 continues the reputation for accessibility DA:O has

Not at all - I just find the topic fascinating, and I realise just how much benefit you can get from small design/compatibility changes...

I'm also curious if Ea has corporate standards for disability accessibility, or if it's left to individual studios?

[Emzamination]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Probably but don't get your hopes up as there isn't a big enough market or budget to devote resources to that sort of thing.Dragon age is very pause and play tactics heavy, you might want to consider getting your students some games more their speed.

In the original post the poster stated that one of the people he is helping was a big fan of Dragon Age. The disability has made it harder for that person to play the game. It is not a matter of being up to speed, but having developers where they can provide accessibility to their games. This in turn widens their market. 

Madden 13 uses Kinect to call plays. (the game has a 6,000 word input vocabulary) This helps those who have trouble using a control enjoy the game. It is not limited to those who have severe disabilities. Anyone with a physical problem such as arthritis can benefit.

Madden13 is an EA product, so the technology is there and in use. The same system could be used to control a DA party.

It is not the same technology, voiceing pre-set football plays is not that same as ordering your party members to move specific locations.

[Realmzmaster]

Emzamination wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Probably but don't get your hopes up as there isn't a big enough market or budget to devote resources to that sort of thing.Dragon age is very pause and play tactics heavy, you might want to consider getting your students some games more their speed.

In the original post the poster stated that one of the people he is helping was a big fan of Dragon Age. The disability has made it harder for that person to play the game. It is not a matter of being up to speed, but having developers where they can provide accessibility to their games. This in turn widens their market. 

Madden 13 uses Kinect to call plays. (the game has a 6,000 word input vocabulary) This helps those who have trouble using a control enjoy the game. It is not limited to those who have severe disabilities. Anyone with a physical problem such as arthritis can benefit.

Madden13 is an EA product, so the technology is there and in use. The same system could be used to control a DA party.

It is not the same technology, voiceing pre-set football plays is not that same as ordering your party members to move specific locations.

The technology is there if the program can understand a 6000 word input vocabulary saying something like Aveline use Scatter moving right is not beyond the realm of possibility. The tactics screen allows the gamer to program the character much like a pre set play in football. Each action can become like a separate play that can be called out.

If necessary the came can be paused  by simply saying pause and commands can be issued to each character then restart the action.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 06 septembre 2012 - 01:08 .