Duirng Garrus' loyalty mission, he wants to kill Sidonis. Since Garrus is one of my (Shepard's) closest friends, I don't really think that this is very good for him. And Sidonis is super upset and very remorseful over what he has done - he has no malicious feelings or intent. He did not kill them out of malicious intent, but was forced (though if it was me, I would've rather been killed). If he was not sorry, I defintely would have killed him, but he WAS sorry. If someone killed my teamates, I defifnitely would've wanted revenge, but I think I wouldve regretted it later, and feel Garrus would've felt the same. I would've spared him maybe if he was very sorry like Sidonis. A good friend would have stopped me. So should I tell Garrus to spare him?
Should I let Sidonis live?
Débuté par
JFarr74
, sept. 04 2012 02:48
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#2
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 03:35
corkey sweet
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i spared him, and you still get garrus's loyalty
#3
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 07:59
Professor Viking
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Kill him... kill him dead.
Seriously though. Garrus expresses no doubt. His resolve is strong. This is his decision, not yours. Respect that.
Seriously though. Garrus expresses no doubt. His resolve is strong. This is his decision, not yours. Respect that.
#4
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 08:18
PsiFive
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Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
#5
Guest_Spectre David Shepard_*
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 12:58
Guest_Spectre David Shepard_*
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I let him live.
(depending on your dialog choices) Ever since ME1, you've been showing/helping Garrus how to deal with these choices.
From how to deal with Saren to how you helped him deal with Dr. Saleon.
Garrus has always responded in ways that make you believe he understands and respects you even more for this.
"Yeah... you know I've never met anyone like you Shepard"
My choice to let Sidonis live has always been for Garrus' sake and not Sidonis'.
(depending on your dialog choices) Ever since ME1, you've been showing/helping Garrus how to deal with these choices.
From how to deal with Saren to how you helped him deal with Dr. Saleon.
Garrus has always responded in ways that make you believe he understands and respects you even more for this.
"Yeah... you know I've never met anyone like you Shepard"
My choice to let Sidonis live has always been for Garrus' sake and not Sidonis'.
Modifié par Spectre David Shepard, 04 septembre 2012 - 01:11 .
#6
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 01:10
Wulfram
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Professor Viking wrote...
Kill him... kill him dead.
Seriously though. Garrus expresses no doubt. His resolve is strong. This is his decision, not yours. Respect that.
You never take that decision away from him.
If he wishes to serve as executioner, he should first hear the case for the defence.
#7
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 09:38
Staff Cdr Alenko
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Spectre David Shepard wrote...
I let him live.
(depending on your dialog choices) Ever since ME1, you've been showing/helping Garrus how to deal with these choices.
From how to deal with Saren to how you helped him deal with Dr. Saleon.
Garrus has always responded in ways that make you believe he understands and respects you even more for this.
"Yeah... you know I've never met anyone like you Shepard"
My choice to let Sidonis live has always been for Garrus' sake and not Sidonis'.
This, a thousandfold.
I've always thought that convincing Garrus to forgive Sidonis grants Garrus more peace than letting him shoot his former squadmate. Contrary to what Professor Viking says above, he actually does hesitate. He doesn't shoot Sidonis the moment he gets a chance. When Shepard moves to the side for the first time, he doesn't take the shot. He just says "Keep him talking for a few more seconds". He even says as much when asked about this. Shepard asks "You sure you know what you're doing?" and Garrus responds "No, but it's too late to back down now". He isn't sure. That may depend on the way the situation with Dr Saleon was resolved back in ME1, though. If you've been getting Garrus to be more paragon in ME1, then it is definitely the right thing to stop him from killing Sidonis now.
#8
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 11:27
coldwetn0se
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PsiFive wrote...
Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
Cookie? This is exactly how I do it. I choose the direction I wish to go, based on the Shepard I am RPing. Sometimes Sadonis lives, and sometimes he dies. Gotta love options, eh?
#9
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 12:04
Gallimatia
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Kill Garrus the mass murderer. Offer Sidonis a reward helping put his ruthless gang of looting killers down. Granted it's not an option apparently it's acceptable to hunt gangs and mercs for "target practice". At least Shepard is supposed to think so despite possibly being a former gang member and currently working for a criminal organization. Garrus is responsible for the death of at least a hundred footsoldiers, freelancers and a handful of serious criminals and he has no upside to show for it what so ever. You can't change how the three largest merc groups do business on Omega with a twelve man gang that supports itself with booty. What he did is morally reprehensible and if you add insult to injury by doing his loyalty quest and continuing the murder spree on the Citadel you should be ashamed of yourself.
Modifié par Gallimatia, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:01 .
#10
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 12:50
Staff Cdr Alenko
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coldwetn0se wrote...
PsiFive wrote...
Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
Cookie? This is exactly how I do it. I choose the direction I wish to go, based on the Shepard I am RPing. Sometimes Sadonis lives, and sometimes he dies. Gotta love options, eh?
Sure
. In my previous post I have merely stated my reasons for going with paragon route.
#11
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 01:04
coldwetn0se
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Staff Lt Alenko wrote...
coldwetn0se wrote...
PsiFive wrote...
Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
Cookie? This is exactly how I do it. I choose the direction I wish to go, based on the Shepard I am RPing. Sometimes Sadonis lives, and sometimes he dies. Gotta love options, eh?
Sure
True enough.
Have a cookie
#12
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 01:10
mnomaha
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coldwetn0se wrote...
Staff Lt Alenko wrote...
coldwetn0se wrote...
PsiFive wrote...
Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
Cookie? This is exactly how I do it. I choose the direction I wish to go, based on the Shepard I am RPing. Sometimes Sadonis lives, and sometimes he dies. Gotta love options, eh?
Sure
True enough.
*grumbles* not like it changes...anything...further down the road.
#13
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 02:33
coldwetn0se
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mnomaha wrote...
coldwetn0se wrote...
Staff Lt Alenko wrote...
coldwetn0se wrote...
PsiFive wrote...
Sometimes I talk to him for a bit and then let Garrus kill him, sometimes I talk Garrus out of it, sometimes I even do exactly what Garrus wants and let him die more or less right away. This is one of those things I'm happy to play in several different ways.
Cookie? This is exactly how I do it. I choose the direction I wish to go, based on the Shepard I am RPing. Sometimes Sadonis lives, and sometimes he dies. Gotta love options, eh?
Sure
True enough.
*grumbles* not like it changes...anything...further down the road.
Awww Shell....you have a cookie too.
#14
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 14 septembre 2012 - 12:07
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I let him kill Sadonis every time. After hearing the whole story and having unwittingly pushed garrus in a solid path toward what he became, which was actually a better guy who cleaned up omega with his team, then sadonis gets them killed? Death. Always. Garrus was making a difference as was his team. They were doing the cleaning up Omega CLEARLY needed and they were clearly appreciated by all but the gangs or he wouldn't have had the archangel nickname. All this is revealed in the conversations if you ask every option. So I just let him kill sadonis, but then again, I let him and pushed him to kill Saleon in ME1. I don't think these type of characters deserve to live and since there's no way to get justice (Saleon was let go by the citadel and who would bother with sadonis), I see this as justice.
I think it depends on how you played ME1 though. In my conversations with garrus in ME1, I always ended up renegade because his points were valid. What would the council have done with Saren? In the end, they did nothing about the abductions of human colonies and hid behind the whole possibility of a terminus war along with denying reapers even after all that happened. In ME1 they were a nightmare to deal with so I agreed with garrus on that and even csec handling of saleon. Also, even when I never talked to garrus when I first played the game, he never regretted killing sadonis. So it doesn't matter really beyond how you feel about it.
I think it depends on how you played ME1 though. In my conversations with garrus in ME1, I always ended up renegade because his points were valid. What would the council have done with Saren? In the end, they did nothing about the abductions of human colonies and hid behind the whole possibility of a terminus war along with denying reapers even after all that happened. In ME1 they were a nightmare to deal with so I agreed with garrus on that and even csec handling of saleon. Also, even when I never talked to garrus when I first played the game, he never regretted killing sadonis. So it doesn't matter really beyond how you feel about it.
#15
Posté 14 septembre 2012 - 04:26
Massa FX
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Garrus can make you think he's a cold bloodied killer but he's not. It's up to Shepard to mentor him along the path to truth, justice, and long life at a bar. Sidonis lives and the Spirits are pleased with him.
Modifié par Massa FX, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:27 .
#16
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 16 septembre 2012 - 02:01
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Massa FX wrote...
Garrus can make you think he's a cold bloodied killer but he's not. It's up to Shepard to mentor him along the path to truth, justice, and long life at a bar. Sidonis lives and the Spirits are pleased with him.
My shepard pushed him renegade in ME1. Fact is, he was right about everything. Letting Saleon go was the wrong choice for such a sadistic scientist and money grubber. He deserved to die. Citdel should have stopped him. SHOULD HAVE!!!
Saren? Also needed to die. Who would trust the council who has proven to be reckless and not take action or proper action when needed? Sorry but there's no sense in pushing Garrus to paragon when he's seen how the system and people running it work and he's RIGHT on all counts. Fact is, Garrus is much wiser than given credit for. He lives in the real world and knows the score and sees how playing by the books and all paragon accomplish very little when it comes to dealing with evil. And he's right.
I played how I would live if I were shepard, not how some unrealistic game thinks I should play. In real life, there are renegade choices that are actually paragon. Nothing is black and white in the real world. So I don't play the game as if that's how it is because it's a juvenille view of reality. In fact, it sends the wrong message. Sometimes, you have to push back HARD. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions, like killing the batarian in bringing down the sky and letting the 3 hostages die because that batarian would go kill more humans. Batarians, too many of them based on what we see in the game - half at least, hate and would kill humans because they were too slow and lazy to settle planets before we did. And in arrival, the one time I played it, I was pretty much 'who cares if 300k batarians die to save a galaxy from imminent reaper invasion? They're the most insidious race in the game. They slave and torture and kill in horrible ways. Also, 300k lives for billions with very imminent death? Cold calculus but where is the better good done? Those batarians would end up dead anyway at some point. Best to save them the indignity of becoming collectors and reapers.
Sparing the wicked so they can do more wicked deeds is foolish and pretending that by you being 'good' or paragon that you've made some difference is naive. Wicked almost never change. Evil rises when good men do nothing. That's what a pure paragon is, which is exactly why there are forced renegade choices for a paragon. Because sometimes being a renegade is the best course of action in that moment or in the long run even if it tarnishes your goody goody image.
Letting sadonis go is good men doing nothing. Garrus was doing good work on that hell hole Omega. His team was making a difference. That's why they called him archangel. That sadonis destroyed that good was a blow to Garrus because Garrus was ridding Omega of scum that Aria could care less about. The only ones that hated Garrus were the gangs or else he wouldn't have gotten the nickname. Sadonis caused the death of good people who were making a difference for the best - good men that DID SOMETHING in the face of evil. I gladly give him his revenge and in real life, if I were really shepard, I'd load the gun, hand it to him and find honor in his avenging a team that cleaned up a hell hole. But I've always leaned renegade in the appropriate places where playing nice and being the good man/woman does nothing but allow evil to thrive.
#17
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 07:32
The Aesthetic Ghant
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Never.
Snitches get stitches.
What kind of man dooms his team to death?
No man, no man at all.
Killing him is too easy. He deserves nothing less than to see everything that he loves destroyed. Then he may have my permission to die.
- High Mach.
Snitches get stitches.
What kind of man dooms his team to death?
No man, no man at all.
Killing him is too easy. He deserves nothing less than to see everything that he loves destroyed. Then he may have my permission to die.
- High Mach.
#18
Posté 17 septembre 2012 - 10:34
Tonymac
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starlitegirlx wrote...
Massa FX wrote...
Garrus can make you think he's a cold bloodied killer but he's not. It's up to Shepard to mentor him along the path to truth, justice, and long life at a bar. Sidonis lives and the Spirits are pleased with him.
My shepard pushed him renegade in ME1. Fact is, he was right about everything. Letting Saleon go was the wrong choice for such a sadistic scientist and money grubber. He deserved to die. Citdel should have stopped him. SHOULD HAVE!!!
Saren? Also needed to die. Who would trust the council who has proven to be reckless and not take action or proper action when needed? Sorry but there's no sense in pushing Garrus to paragon when he's seen how the system and people running it work and he's RIGHT on all counts. Fact is, Garrus is much wiser than given credit for. He lives in the real world and knows the score and sees how playing by the books and all paragon accomplish very little when it comes to dealing with evil. And he's right.
I played how I would live if I were shepard, not how some unrealistic game thinks I should play. In real life, there are renegade choices that are actually paragon. Nothing is black and white in the real world. So I don't play the game as if that's how it is because it's a juvenille view of reality. In fact, it sends the wrong message. Sometimes, you have to push back HARD. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions, like killing the batarian in bringing down the sky and letting the 3 hostages die because that batarian would go kill more humans. Batarians, too many of them based on what we see in the game - half at least, hate and would kill humans because they were too slow and lazy to settle planets before we did. And in arrival, the one time I played it, I was pretty much 'who cares if 300k batarians die to save a galaxy from imminent reaper invasion? They're the most insidious race in the game. They slave and torture and kill in horrible ways. Also, 300k lives for billions with very imminent death? Cold calculus but where is the better good done? Those batarians would end up dead anyway at some point. Best to save them the indignity of becoming collectors and reapers.
Sparing the wicked so they can do more wicked deeds is foolish and pretending that by you being 'good' or paragon that you've made some difference is naive. Wicked almost never change. Evil rises when good men do nothing. That's what a pure paragon is, which is exactly why there are forced renegade choices for a paragon. Because sometimes being a renegade is the best course of action in that moment or in the long run even if it tarnishes your goody goody image.
Letting sadonis go is good men doing nothing. Garrus was doing good work on that hell hole Omega. His team was making a difference. That's why they called him archangel. That sadonis destroyed that good was a blow to Garrus because Garrus was ridding Omega of scum that Aria could care less about. The only ones that hated Garrus were the gangs or else he wouldn't have gotten the nickname. Sadonis caused the death of good people who were making a difference for the best - good men that DID SOMETHING in the face of evil. I gladly give him his revenge and in real life, if I were really shepard, I'd load the gun, hand it to him and find honor in his avenging a team that cleaned up a hell hole. But I've always leaned renegade in the appropriate places where playing nice and being the good man/woman does nothing but allow evil to thrive.
Well stated.
Besides, Sidonis never did jacko in ME3. He has no guest appearance. He sold out his brothers in arms. You can still do some paragon points - let him squirm. "Food.... has no taste. I'm already a dead man." *POP* As his brain flew out of his torn open skull, I hope it hurt.
#19
Posté 19 septembre 2012 - 03:02
Zero132132
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That was no institutional form of law. Any policing agency could be regarded in a similar light, especially those funded by auctioning off stuff siezed by the DEA. Instead of murder, they force their victims into a tiny cell, often with pretty horrible living conditions, although sometimes they get with the killing too. If such methods make the world a safer place, then from a consequentialist perspective, they aren't morally reprehensible.Gallimatia wrote...
Kill Garrus the mass murderer. Offer Sidonis a reward helping put his ruthless gang of looting killers down. Granted it's not an option apparently it's acceptable to hunt gangs and mercs for "target practice". At least Shepard is supposed to think so despite possibly being a former gang member and currently working for a criminal organization. Garrus is responsible for the death of at least a hundred footsoldiers, freelancers and a handful of serious criminals and he has no upside to show for it what so ever. You can't change how the three largest merc groups do business on Omega with a twelve man gang that supports itself with booty. What he did is morally reprehensible and if you add insult to injury by doing his loyalty quest and continuing the murder spree on the Citadel you should be ashamed of yourself.
What ethical guidelines are you using to define 'morally reprehensible' here? They certainly aren't mine.
#20
Posté 25 septembre 2012 - 01:18
Gallimatia
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His actions are reprehensible from a consequentalist perspective if they have no positive consequece. We have no reason to belive they did and he had no reason to belive they would.
Myself I am a utilitarian but I figured since all the usual ethical guidelines condemn Garrus that need not be specified.
No if he was making a difference it is not revealed in dialogue.
Additionally even if it turned out in say the Omega DLC that by some miracle he did make a positive difference he would still be in the wrong. Anything is possible with a little help from the writers but Garrus giving the gangs of Omega pause is about as belivable as the reapers viewing Shepard as a threat. Now the latter has happened and on the same note the former could but there's no reason for anyone in universe to ever think either would. Fact would remain that Garrus was killing people with no expected upside. He doesn't know he is a well liked character in a fictional world liable to be given unreasonable amounts of success and so he doesn't get a pass if that were to turn out to be the case. He was doomed to fail and did. Shepard found him trapped in a corner, scheduled to die and saved him by virtue of plot armor from what could have been useful allies.
It follows that I belive that he did not make the world a safer place and had no reason to belive any good would come of his actions. That is my beef. If it was possible for him to police Omega it would be an entirely different matter but it is not. If anything I'd expect that by making the gangs angry he had them lashing out....he has no upside to show for it what so ever. You can't change how the three largest merc groups do business on Omega with a twelve man gang
Myself I am a utilitarian but I figured since all the usual ethical guidelines condemn Garrus that need not be specified.
starlitegirlx wrote...
Garrus was making a difference as was his team. They were doing the cleaning up Omega CLEARLY needed and they were clearly appreciated by all but the gangs or he wouldn't have had the archangel nickname. All this is revealed in the conversations if you ask every option.
No if he was making a difference it is not revealed in dialogue.
Additionally even if it turned out in say the Omega DLC that by some miracle he did make a positive difference he would still be in the wrong. Anything is possible with a little help from the writers but Garrus giving the gangs of Omega pause is about as belivable as the reapers viewing Shepard as a threat. Now the latter has happened and on the same note the former could but there's no reason for anyone in universe to ever think either would. Fact would remain that Garrus was killing people with no expected upside. He doesn't know he is a well liked character in a fictional world liable to be given unreasonable amounts of success and so he doesn't get a pass if that were to turn out to be the case. He was doomed to fail and did. Shepard found him trapped in a corner, scheduled to die and saved him by virtue of plot armor from what could have been useful allies.
Modifié par Gallimatia, 25 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .
#21
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 29 septembre 2012 - 12:02
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Well, he was trying to take them down and rid omega of the trash and gangs. I think he felt he had to do something after working with shepard and no matter how you swing it, nothing you do to try to sway him changes anything. So the conversation is moot, isn't it? Blame the writers who love to write crap for the sake of it. Having him be archangel got him noticed and got his dossier to Tim. Not sure how else they could have gone about it. He was badass and fought against what he perceived as bad beings the best way he knew how. He was going to end up doing something like that anyway no matter which way you push him because it was already in his nature after working at CSec for so long and seeing all the red tape and people like Dr. Saleon get away. Also, watching the council do squat against saren he had already deduced that conventional law is useless and despite that he wanted to make a difference he really couldn't. One fish in an ocean. Plus, he just helped save the galaxy, thought shepard was dead, and so he found some way to try to make a difference. Do we have proof? No. Do we ever? Nor generally. Blame the writers. They screw up plenty.
#22
Guest_starlitegirlx_*
Posté 29 septembre 2012 - 12:23
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Gallimatia wrote...
Kill Garrus the mass murderer. Offer Sidonis a reward helping put his ruthless gang of looting killers down. Granted it's not an option apparently it's acceptable to hunt gangs and mercs for "target practice". At least Shepard is supposed to think so despite possibly being a former gang member and currently working for a criminal organization. Garrus is responsible for the death of at least a hundred footsoldiers, freelancers and a handful of serious criminals and he has no upside to show for it what so ever. You can't change how the three largest merc groups do business on Omega with a twelve man gang that supports itself with booty. What he did is morally reprehensible and if you add insult to injury by doing his loyalty quest and continuing the murder spree on the Citadel you should be ashamed of yourself.
So you support the gangs who have been killing randomly and doing all sorts of horrible things? seriously? Anyone who supports gang activity and then calls someone who tries to limit it and push it back or stop it in a hellhole like omega is supporting crime already. How many did the gangs kill? On the mission to get mordin you see it's pretty bad, and I doubt it was any better before at any point. There's a reason why it looks like a hell hole. because it is. Aria could have done something, but she didn't care. she juse wanted to be queen of something. so she was queen of hell and all the gangs that ran there. Didn't even care about morinth because she felt safe against her.
A mass murderer of scum is a vigilante. The scum will continue killing, innocents mostly and other scum. But garrus only went after murderous scum. But sure, he was a murderer - of gang scum, murdreing gang scum. However, whatever he did was enough to make ALL the gangs team up against him, therefore, using powers of deduction, his actions did make a difference otherwise they would have ignorened him. Your argument is not backed by the events that occur. If garrus made not difference to the gangs and didn't do any damage they would't have teamed up to kill him. So your logic is DEEPLY flawed. Gangs don't work together unless what they're workiing against is of mutual benefit to them. That's really the only proof one needs. Had garrus made no difference, he wouldn't have been hunted. So he must have made some difference and given that waging war on him was clearly not easy (they had to resort to hiring random wannabe mercs because he was plowing through the gangs pretty easily), it only serves to proove that he did make a difference. That is how we are shown.
Sorry, but you'll get no backing here. Your logic is as sound as the reapers.
Also, if you just claimed that Shepard was a gang member, might I remind you that 1- shepard in ONE backround joined the alliance to get away from that. There is no hard proof that shepard actually participated but there is proof shepard made a choice to escape that life. And that is ONLY one history. Otherwise, shepard was raised in space or had his/her family murdered on mindoir in a brutal slaughter and enslavement of the colony.
Again, you logic is off. Your facts are off. And in the end, Garrus makes a difference more than any of the scum he was 'murdering' - he joins with Shepard to stop the collectors and watch her back, then he joins with her again to take down the reapers. Mass murderers generally don't aim to save the galaxy.
Also, if you NEED dialog to make logical sense of everything, then you should probably avoid living in the real world. It's rare that people tell you what you need to make the best decisions in life. It's their actions and the actions of others because people lie easily but their actions speak volumes as to their motives. garrus didn't go off on a random murdering spree, he targeted gangs. Specific gangs. And he did it in the biggest hellhole he could find. If he was a mass murderer, he could have done it anywhere. See real crime histories of mass murders or serial killers or most any criminals who commit murder. reaper logic, again.
Modifié par starlitegirlx, 29 septembre 2012 - 12:39 .
#23
Posté 30 septembre 2012 - 01:31
Shinobu
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Do what your Shepard thinks is best from a roleplaying perspective. There are no bad consequences either way from a metagaming perspective. Garrus will be loyal no matter what.
Rationales my Shepards have had:
Garrus is an adult and knows the situation better than Shepard. He is capable of making his own decisions and deserves Shepard's trust. (Kill Sidonis)
Garrus is letting grief and guilt twist him into something he isn't. He needs Shepard to pull him back from the brink. (Spare Sidonis)
Rationales my Shepards have had:
Garrus is an adult and knows the situation better than Shepard. He is capable of making his own decisions and deserves Shepard's trust. (Kill Sidonis)
Garrus is letting grief and guilt twist him into something he isn't. He needs Shepard to pull him back from the brink. (Spare Sidonis)
#24
Posté 30 septembre 2012 - 02:14
Gallimatia
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starlitegirlx wrote...
However, whatever he did was enough to make ALL the gangs team up against him, therefore, using powers of deduction, his actions did make a difference otherwise they would have ignorened him. Your argument is not backed by the events that occur. If garrus made not difference to the gangs and didn't do any damage they would't have teamed up to kill him. So your logic is DEEPLY flawed. Gangs don't work together unless what they're workiing against is of mutual benefit to them. That's really the only proof one needs. Had garrus made no difference, he wouldn't have been hunted. So he must have made some difference and given that waging war on him was clearly not easy (they had to resort to hiring random wannabe mercs because he was plowing through the gangs pretty easily), it only serves to proove that he did make a difference. That is how we are shown.
Sorry, but you'll get no backing here. Your logic is as sound as the reapers.
He does not need to make a difference in how the gangs operate for them to team up. He only needs to damage and annoy them which of course he did. If he hadn't damaged anyone there'd be nothing for me to complain about. Damaging the gangs all else equal is bad. Say I start killing employees of restaurants targetting large international fast food chains especially and have some success with that chances are they will cooperate best they can with each other and the police to stop me. That does not mean I changed how they do business and I couldn't possibly get people to stop running restaurants and everyone to eat healthy home cooked meals if that was my goal. Similary Garrus can't get people to stop trafficking drugs, weapons etc and killing those that get in their way on Omega.
Garm: He's costing me men and making me work for my money. He's a pain in the ass.
starlitegirlx wrote...
Also, if you just claimed that Shepard was a gang member, might I remind you that 1- shepard in ONE backround joined the alliance to get away from that. There is no hard proof that shepard actually participated but there is proof shepard made a choice to escape that life. And that is ONLY one history. Otherwise, shepard was raised in space or had his/her family murdered on mindoir ina brutal slaughter and enslavement of the colony.
Again, you logic is off. Your facts are off. And in the end, Garrus makes a difference more than any of the scum he was 'murdering' - he joins with Shepard to stop the collectors and watch her back, then he joins with her again to take down the reapers. Mass murderers generally don't aim to save the galaxy.
Also, if you NEED dialog to make logical sense of everything, then you should probably avoid living in the real world. It's rare that people tell you what you need to make the best decisions in life. It's their actions and the actions of others because people lie easily but their actions speak volumes as to their motives. garrus didn't go off on a random murdering spree, he targeted gangs. Specific gangs. And he did it in the biggest hellhole he could find. If he was a mass murderer, he could have done it anywhere. See real crime histories of mass murders or serial killers or most any criminals who commit murder. reaper logic, again.
No you do not need to remind me of the various backgrounds. I said "possibly being a former gang member". It stands to reason that Shepard was the muscle in the Reds and committed a murder or two on their behalf if born on earth but that's not important. What Shepard was doesn't change the merits of what Garrus did. It's just especially obvious to earthborn Shepard that gang members shouldn't be used for target practice or any some such.
Earthborn Shepard: I grew up on the streets fighting for every scrap of food... pulled myself out of the worst holes there were.
I don't know what you are addressing with that crime history stuff but if you want to know what Garrus is in addition to a mass murderer/serial killer it is a glory seeker. Trying to save the galaxy is exactly what that brand of nutter would do. He wants to be revered like his father the big C-Sec man whos achievements he grew up watching in the vids. A father who much like paragon Shepard tried and failed to stop Garrus from being so rash and impatient.
Garrus: I got three seperate merc bands to work together to take me down. My manager at C-Sec would be impressed.
Not that Omega wouldn't be the place to go for a killer that simply enjoys a nice target, loves his rifle and is urging to do a little scope work. On Omega there's no red tape to slow such a person down. It's a perfect fit. A hellhole is just what a devil needs.
Jentha: He's a turian vigilante who thinks killing mercs is a fun way to pass the time.
As for dialogue I don't recall saying I need any. Maybe your facts are off? I am judging him by his actions. Going to Omega and picking a fight with three of the largest mercenary organizations is folly. If you want reaper logic I suggest looking at Garrus. His plan to make the gangs think twice before murdering someone in the street by means of mass murder in the street is right up their ally.
starlitegirlx wrote...
And in the end, Garrus makes a difference more than any of the scum he was 'murdering' - he joins with Shepard to stop the collectors and watchher back, then he joins with her again to take down the reapers.
That's easy to say when you never gave Garm a chance. He would have added +25 points to the Terminus Fleet and led the scum to a flawless conventional victory. It was downright inspiring how he put the fear in Garrus. First sight has Garrus screaming for help, first contact and he cries for it.
Garm: Live and die without fear. Put that fear in the hearts of your enemies.
Modifié par Gallimatia, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:59 .
