189 réponses à ce sujet

[LilyasAvalon]

HollowSunsets wrote...

Why is it so hard for Bioware to make a good game?
That's all we really want.

Time for one thing.

The more I looked into what ME3 was SUPPOSED to be, the more it became extremely evident they were just EXTREMELY pressed for time.

If you really want to blame anyone, you should blame EA.

[Deron Noire]

Th...the...p...po...possibilites...

*tears start flowing*

[Noelemahc]

Hey guys, I'm the dewd behind the post from the HoldTheLine thread that was linked in this here thread's OP, bringing you clarifications straight to your doorstep.

Kulbelbolka wrote...
As I understand there was Cerberus trying to show Shepard as mass murderer on Eden Prime and Udina should take off his SPECTRE rank to interfer Shepard's war with Reaper. There is no context in game why Udina betrayed Shepard.

Since Javik was central to the plotline, so was Eden Prime.

It played out something like this: Shep and Co hear Cerberus unearthed some important thing on Eden Prime, which may or may not be the CATALYST (it's all caps in most parts of the script in the beta, fancy that). So we go there, meet the local folks being opressed by Cerberus that has effectively turned the colony into a slave pen working for their digging efforts. After admiring the statue in Shepard's honor (erected after ME1), Shep and Co proceed to engage in hostilities with Shepard, uncrate Javik in much the same manner as in From Ashes, but Javik is disoriented from the prolonged stasis and goes all Jack-berserk on Cerberus... and everyone else, too. When we catch up to him and calm him down, three things are apparent:
-- He's not friendly
-- Shepard can understand Prothean, but not SPEAK Prothean
-- Liara's grasp of spoken Prothean is on the "ME AM FREND" level.
Oh, and the civilian death toll on the colony has passed a few thousand people and while Shep is derping around teaching Javik rudimentary Galactic Basic, Cerberus pushes a smear campaign against Shepard (with help from Terra Firma, we have to assume) that has Shep facing the Citadel Council on his next visit there, and they de-SPECTRE him at Udina's insistence.

This gives Udina a wonderful excuse of why Shep keeps saying Udina's the traitor during the coup-- that and footage of Shepard attacking the Salarian councillor (actually, defending him/her from Cerberus Phantoms), which has the VS convinced Shep has gone Full Cerberus, which makes it kinda harder for you to convince them during the final standoff.

So you can talk them into a fall sense of security and shoot them, have Thane backstab them, or just stall them with fisticuffs while Thane whacks Udina. Or convince them you're good, and shoot Udina. Or have them shoot Udina if you're really good. Either way, at the last moment, Udina manages to shoot Tevos/Irissa, but Thane catches the bullet (which goes clean through and hits the Asari Councillor anyway).

OR you can ignore the VS and appeal to the Council directly, if you had good relations with them in the previous games. There was a TRUCKLOAD of variations in there, and some of them ended with Council appointing Shepard Lord Protector of the Galaxy in gratitude. Fancy that.

Mr.House wrote...
I don't care that Liara was in that sitaution, in fact I would not care if it was save Liara and save dsquadmate you take. What I have an issue and what alot had was that not only was VS handled poorly, betrayed ytou many times and refused to trust you, Bioware tries to hard to make oyu pick Liara because of this, oh and the fact that Ash/Kaidan already had an event like this?

The event isn't all that similar, the only similarity is the "choose one who doesn't die" and it doesn't actually have to involve the VS. Liara is the compulsory team member in that level, the VS isn't. In the version of the script with the Virmire-like choice, the VS standoff wasn't on Thessia (the thing which most people hated the November Leak for, aside from the proto-Starbrat scenes) but on the Citadel (see above). So it was a trick because people usually bring their favourite characters onto a level, so you'd probably bring your LI or Garrusbro along. AND HAVE TO CHOOSE WHO TO SAVE. Insidious, and actually a good game design decision, if you ask me.

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Funny thing is just as much stuff got cut from ME1 and ME2 if past info is to be believed.

Why no similar uproar to have a DC of thsoe games?.

Because they didn't FEEL like stuff was cut.

Does it make you feel better if you know Liara's recruitment in ME1 was supposed to be a gang-wrangling affair involving several groups lying to Shep about her location until he/she sides with one of them or just slaughters them all because none of them actually know the truth?

That Zaeed's recruitment mission (YES, he had a recruitment mission!) involved a MAKO chase?

I guess it does. But did you, while playing the game, feel that it was missing something like that?

Well, ME3 is missing a LOT of pieces which the November Beta provides.

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

Why are some saying "cut content?"

These seem more like concepts. There is a big difference.

If you check the actual links, quite a lot of them have fully-fleshed out dialogue, cutscene scripts and dialogue WHEELS even. Similarly to the Omega and Daro'Xen quests whose scripts are present even in the final game.

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Funny thing is just as much stuff got cut from ME1 and ME2 if past info is to be believed.

Why no similar uproar to have a DC of thsoe games?

Yeah. The only difference is that ME1 and ME2 didn't have early versions of their scripts leaked, so we don't have as much to compare.

For example, I remember reading that BioWare toyed with the idea of being able to save both Ashley and Kaidan in New Game + earlier in ME1's development.

I'm working on that as you can see in the above links.

Also, both Kaidan and Ashley were supposed to be romanceable by both genders of Shepard. So were Thane, Tali and Jack and Miranda (at least according to stuffs I found in the ME2 game scripts). All of the above even has VOICEOVERS for those present in the games. In fact, LotSB contains dialogue referring to Shepard's LIs (from both Shep and Liara) for the FemShep romancery of Tali, Jack and Miranda. Since when do DLCs get dialogue for stuff that isn't in the game? =)
Oh, ME2 also perfectly safely handles an imported save wherein BroShep romanced Kaidan and LadyShep romanced Ashley, the Horizon dialogue flows naturally and properly reflects the above facts.
Similarly, ME3 perfectly handles an imported save where SisShep romanced Tali and even has most of the appropriate dialogue voiced.

huntrrz wrote...

If you read the linked post, the author makes it clear there are three scripts embedded in the files he mined - he is quoting from the "we're probably not going to use these" script for most of his quotes. They retained those things so that they had the OPTION of using them if rewrites brought them back into play.

Yep, most of the fun stuff comes from the "We maybe aren't gonna use this" script.
The second, "we're totally not gonna use this" script is the one most people quoted when the leak originally leaked because it was the shortest. THAT was the one where Kai Leng out of thin air convinces the VS you're evil and has you fight them on Thessia.
The "we're probably gonna use this" script is a rough draft of what we got in the final game built on top of ME2's (probably to make use of the Codex and interface and inventory entries as placeholders).

Modifié par Noelemahc, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[Squallypo]

ThaDPG wrote...

M920CAIN wrote...

Like I said it a few times before.... THE POTENTIAL! ME3 could've been great! But Bioware wanted it to be mediocre.

Or they plan on milking our wallets just to get the full story

you sir are LEGIT this was pretty obvious since from the ashes dlc..

[obZen DF]

Is...this...real?

[Noelemahc]

obZen DF wrote...

Is...this...real?

As a heart attack. Remember that leaked X-box beta of the game people were playing illegally in November? All of this comes from its files.

[Gabylan001]

Noelemahc wrote...

obZen DF wrote...

Is...this...real?

As a heart attack. Remember that leaked X-box beta of the game people were playing illegally in November? All of this comes from its files.

Naha nah nah! Are you implying that all this was removed just because a "leaked beta"?

Please sorry my english, I can't concentrate with this shock

[The_Crazy_Hand]

I could care less about ANY of it. ZERO of the cut content involves fighting, not running from the reapers. ZERO of the cut content involes more Harbinger lines (or any at all) or a final boss fight with him.

The only improvements I see are in the pre-alpha version, and they're mild-moderate. They are:

-Rannoch reaper used to be a capitol ship.
-Crucible used to be a giant bomb, used in a spot where the fleets would have diverted most, if not all reapers to.
-Tuchanka bomb was going to be used against the reapers.

But still no, fight them and kill them. Still no taking back Earth.

[movieguyabw]

...This all really should be added back in, with patches, and DLC... who else agrees?

[BatmanPWNS]

movieguyabw wrote...

...This all really should be added back in, with patches, and DLC... who else agrees?

That'll just reinforce the idea all messes can be fixed with DLC's.

[Noelemahc]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

I could care less about ANY of it. ZERO of the cut content involves fighting, not running from the reapers. ZERO of the cut content involes more Harbinger lines (or any at all) or a final boss fight with him.
<...>
 Still no taking back Earth.

Didn't say it fixes everything. Just that it sucks less.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Noelemahc wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

I could care less about ANY of it. ZERO of the cut content involves fighting, not running from the reapers. ZERO of the cut content involes more Harbinger lines (or any at all) or a final boss fight with him.
<...>
 Still no taking back Earth.

Didn't say it fixes everything. Just that it sucks less.

But of course, you and I both know we agree on these things.  I was speaking to the broader BSN crowd.

[Nitrocuban]

Shouldn´t ME3 hit the stores for Xmas 2011 in first place and was then delayed to March?
Kinda makes me wonder how much time Bioware demanded to complete ME3, 3 months where hardly enough as we have seen.

[BAOBAB_AOTEAROA]

Astonishing.........i am speechless.

[Kulbelbolka]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Shouldn´t ME3 hit the stores for Xmas 2011 in first place and was then delayed to March?
Kinda makes me wonder how much time Bioware demanded to complete ME3, 3 months where hardly enough as we have seen.

I believe that they make a deal with EA: Bioware asked some more months to finish the game as it's possible and for exchange they also agreed to make this half-baked multiplayer with free2play-style equipment packs that you can win or buy for real money. As I heard it's really profitable.

[Noelemahc]

Kulbelbolka wrote...
I believe that they make a deal with EA: Bioware asked some more months to finish the game as it's possible and for exchange they also agreed to make this half-baked multiplayer with free2play-style equipment packs that you can win or buy for real money. As I heard it's really profitable.

While popular, this opinion is misguided. The multiplayer was in development at LEAST a year before release.

[deathlord413]

Does anyone else think they scrapped a lot of the original script because it was leaked? Personally if I had been one of the producers I would have been pissed and would have wanted to change practically everything. I know it's an odd idea, but if I'm creating something I don't want anyone to know the events unless I think they're perfect.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

deathlord413 wrote...

Does anyone else think they scrapped a lot of the original script because it was leaked? Personally if I had been one of the producers I would have been pissed and would have wanted to change practically everything. I know it's an odd idea, but if I'm creating something I don't want anyone to know the events unless I think they're perfect.

I doubt it, stuff is cut from games all the time.  Very few games past the Atari 2600 came about without any content being cut.

[EnvyTB075]

Can a bunch of dudes like, learn how to make games and go make this please?

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .

[rollblows]

Krogan ships. KROGAN SHIPS.
why did you cut that

[The_Crazy_Hand]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Can a bunch of dudes like, learn how to make games and go make this please?

Or maybe instead, someone should make ME3 the way it SHOULD have been, where we fight, bond the galaxy, and perservere against the reapers.

[txgoldrush]

Please.....people whined and bashed this leak.....or did everybody forget the fact that these story details were trashed.

Sorry, but ME3 is complete. Things get cut, thats how it is.

This is not KOTOR II or DAII or Fallout 2.

Hell, there were a lot cut in Fallout New Vegas, but its still a very complete game, writing wise.

[Icinix]

txgoldrush wrote...

Please.....people whined and bashed this leak.....or did everybody forget the fact that these story details were trashed.

Sorry, but ME3 is complete. Things get cut, thats how it is.

This is not KOTOR II or DAII or Fallout 2.

Hell, there were a lot cut in Fallout New Vegas, but its still a very complete game, writing wise.

Actually those three games are exactly the category ME3 falls into...

..as well as countless others.

Huge content gets cut / never gets implemented in games.

..and as much as there is a lot of stuff in all those games I would love to see, especially ME3, its impossible to know how their implementation would have turned out in the final release - it could have ended up being an even worse crap storm.

Also - I actually liked the ending for KOTOR2....and now the shoe is on the other foot! YEAH! IN CROWD WOO!

[txgoldrush]

Icinix wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Please.....people whined and bashed this leak.....or did everybody forget the fact that these story details were trashed.

Sorry, but ME3 is complete. Things get cut, thats how it is.

This is not KOTOR II or DAII or Fallout 2.

Hell, there were a lot cut in Fallout New Vegas, but its still a very complete game, writing wise.

Actually those three games are exactly the category ME3 falls into...

..as well as countless others.

Huge content gets cut / never gets implemented in games.

..and as much as there is a lot of stuff in all those games I would love to see, especially ME3, its impossible to know how their implementation would have turned out in the final release - it could have ended up being an even worse crap storm.

Also - I actually liked the ending for KOTOR2....and now the shoe is on the other foot! YEAH! IN CROWD WOO!

However, just because they are cut, doesn't mean it is "rushed".

Nevermind the FACT that ME3 was in development LONGER than ME2.

[EnvyTB075]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Can a bunch of dudes like, learn how to make games and go make this please?

Or maybe instead, someone should make ME3 the way it SHOULD have been, where we fight, bond the galaxy, and perservere against the reapers.

...thats exactly what i meant, BioWare isn't exactly going to do the game justice from here on in are they?