406 réponses à ce sujet

[Senior Cinco]

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Modifié par Senior Cinco, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:45 .

[Wayning_Star]

ghost9191 wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

People should pay more attention to Javik. He have very profound and compelling reasons.

like javik. 98% of the stuff he says i agree with

Javik was a bit on the draconic side. Direct decendent of the Leviathan mentality. Possibly third/forth cousins..lol

[Wayning_Star]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Actually, no, she's leaps and bounds ahead of the lost'n spaced crowd..You's guys is being sarcasic now..

[LtAdams2247 Origin]

Depends on how you define "alive". Most people that work in an office 9to5 their entire mortal existances i would deny the definition. The better question to ask would be "does this unit have a soul" ;-)

On that account, ever since she decided she would willingly and gladly up give her existance to protect loved one, I'm gonna go with yes, most definitely.

[r.anger]

Gears and cogs. I actually kept a close eye on Edi as it became more self aware...and Jeff didn't help any trying to score with the computer assigned to control my combat cyber suite!! Actually pissed me off a bit.

[Iakus]

EDI is alive. Not like organic life, but sentient enough to ponder her own existence. That's close enough in my book

[Hydralysk]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Well that depends on the view, do you measure a person by what atoms make up their bodies, or do you measure a person by their capability for sentient thought and their decisions once that state has been achieved.

[D24O]

iakus wrote...

EDI is alive. Not like organic life, but sapient enough to ponder her own existence. That's close enough in my book

Modifié par D24O, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:51 .

[ghost9191]

@Wayning_Star

yeah , i just don't believe they need synthesis to be alive. not the reason i don't choose synthesis, just get a weird ill type feeling when she talks during it, like it goes back on everything she became. And i don't believe synthesis is necessary for organic and synthetics to coexist , but as you said to each their own

[ghost9191]

Wayning_Star wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

People should pay more attention to Javik. He have very profound and compelling reasons.

like javik. 98% of the stuff he says i agree with

Javik was a bit on the draconic side. Direct decendent of the Leviathan mentality. Possibly third/forth cousins..lol

yeah which is why i agreed with only 98% of what he said, other 2 was just idk man

[Wayning_Star]

D24O wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

It's that schism, between orga and syntha. Competing life forms. But humans and apparently,most organic life forms are alone with themselves. Maybe she felt less 'opposed' and more 'accepted' amongst her 'new' peer group?

That would make sense, but she did have organic "friends" amongst the Normandy crew. I wouldn't say she was "alone" not by a long shot. I didn't see synthesis as neccecary for Organics and Synthetics to coexist, probably the root of my contention with that line.

well, "friends" is a qualitive when used in a statement, we have now wayt to know what it means to a synthetic life form when considering organic life forms, as such. We'd be guessing from our own perspective. 

I meant 'alone' within ourselves. Synthetics have their 'hub' of knowlege, like the Geth have their collective, so they're always among themselves,as that is 'them'. Alien I know, but there it is. Edi has the Normandy and her brood crew to associate with, in a relative different fashion than even Commander Shepard would have at the top of the food chain there. He's alone with himself, but NOT Edi,ever..or as long as her core system resides on the Normandy.

[Senior Cinco]

Hydralysk wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Well that depends on the view, do you measure a person by what atoms make up their bodies, or do you measure a person by their capability for sentient thought and their decisions once that state has been achieved.

I wasn't being sarcastic or even funny. An Android, with an AI or Robot. It's the same thing from my standpoint. No matter how one may give the detail of the programming. None of that can constitute the living, breathing cellular make of what I define as being life. 

There is life and there is mimics of. Robie, EDI and Legion are not the former.

[Wayning_Star]

ghost9191 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

BlueSandBristow wrote...

People should pay more attention to Javik. He have very profound and compelling reasons.

like javik. 98% of the stuff he says i agree with

Javik was a bit on the draconic side. Direct decendent of the Leviathan mentality. Possibly third/forth cousins..lol

yeah which is why i agreed with only 98% of what he said, other 2 was just idk man

yeah, made me wish for more conversational options in the tree with good'ol Javik.. I had a few good one liners for'em as well. lol I liked him, but he was a pain in the ass.

[Wayning_Star]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Well that depends on the view, do you measure a person by what atoms make up their bodies, or do you measure a person by their capability for sentient thought and their decisions once that state has been achieved.

I wasn't being sarcastic or even funny. An Android, with an AI or Robot. It's the same thing from my standpoint. No matter how one may give the detail of the programming. None of that can constitute the living, breathing cellular make of what I define as being life. 

There is life and there is mimics of. Robie, EDI and Legion are not the former.

You mean, not organic and/or the first be created spontaniously? ( kind of puts a damper on life is what you make of it...)

[Inquisitor Recon]

In the end I still think of her as a machine. Yes, one that has achieved full sentience, but an AI hat has exceeded its original design parameters regardless. Can't blame her for that however.

[.PHANTOM]

as much as anyone else is, it really doesn't matter if your made out of metal or flesh look at Shepard S/he is pretty much a cyborg at this point with all those implants, his/her eyes glow, GLOW i tell you!, if he/she gets angry, that's not normal, it's not hey we fixed your broken bones type of surgery it's more of "welcome back to life we had to make adjustments/cybernetic enhancements even added Terminator eyes when you get pissed of, now how do you feel"
, but yeah, it only matters if your made out of magic or space magic, i won't discriminate, in that case well time to get the shotgun or the ol' M-920 Cain out for a drive.

[Most Definitely Sane]

Maria Caliban wrote...

No.

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

On topic, I do consider her alive.
She has emotions, she has a conscience, and she has attachments.
Therefore, alive.

Except none of those have anything to do with being alive.

Earthworms are alive. They don't have emotions, a conscience, or attachments. What they do have is growth, reproduction, and a metabolic process.

You have a good point.

But she is most definitely a person. And so I believe that she is alive.

[D24O]

Wayning_Star wrote...

I meant 'alone' within ourselves. Synthetics have their 'hub' of knowlege, like the Geth have their collective, so they're always among themselves,as that is 'them'. Alien I know, but there it is. Edi has the Normandy and her brood crew to associate with, in a relative different fashion than even Commander Shepard would have at the top of the food chain there. He's alone with himself, but NOT Edi,ever..or as long as her core system resides on the Normandy.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding you. Are you referring to the fact that by partly being the Normandy, she's not alone? 

[Versus Omnibus]

I consider her to be alive and a person.

[Senior Cinco]

Wayning_Star wrote...

You mean, not organic and/or the first be created spontaniously? ( kind of puts a damper on life is what you make of it...)

I'm getting on up there in age. My reading comprehension is not what it used to be. That line of verbage went right over my head. I have no idea what you just asked me.

Maybe it was a rhetorical question. I still missed it, as I didn't have my glove open.

[Inprea]

I consider EDI to be alive and most assuredly a person. I also consider it a bit strange when people mention circuits and think of what we have today. Considering EDI raw computing power and the extremely compact space it's contained within I have to believe whatever components make up her "brain" as it where are as advanced if not far more advanced then the cells that make up our brains.

In some ways it makes me think of Ghost in the Shell when the cyborgs are setting around talking about life. I rather liked it when Motoko asked, "Have you ever seen your own brain?" Talking about how any of them could just be a pure machine who's chemical brain was removed long ago. they weren't conscious when they saw the doctor's working. Another manga that really dealt with this subject a lot would be Battle Angel. One really amusing aspect was the humans in the "Utopian" city. I forget the exact age but essentially at a certain age everyone goes to a hospital and unknown to them their brains are removed entirely. Their memories are copied over and a computer is placed in its place.

Now people on the surface say, "You're not human because your body is a machine." In some cases completely other then the brain. While some of the people in the utopia say, "You're not human because you don't have an organic brain anymore." Then they use this to justify murdering one another proving that both sides are actually very human.

[Hydralysk]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Well that depends on the view, do you measure a person by what atoms make up their bodies, or do you measure a person by their capability for sentient thought and their decisions once that state has been achieved.

I wasn't being sarcastic or even funny. An Android, with an AI or Robot. It's the same thing from my standpoint. No matter how one may give the detail of the programming. None of that can constitute the living, breathing cellular make of what I define as being life. 

There is life and there is mimics of. Robie, EDI and Legion are not the former.

Which puts you under the mindset that being alive is analogus to organic origin. There are a lot of people out there, myself included, who consider being 'alive' to being concious, self-aware, and that is something that AI's are able to achieve.

For a real world debate, is a braindead person being kept alive on rebreathers still 'alive' since he is no longer able to interact physically or mentally with the world around him?

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I never thought your argument was a joke, but this debate is more about philosophy than science alone, what it means to be 'alive' is one of life's oldest and greatest mysteries.

[Wayning_Star]

Senior Cinco wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

You mean, not organic and/or the first be created spontaniously? ( kind of puts a damper on life is what you make of it...)

I'm getting on up there in age. My reading comprehension is not what it used to be. That line of verbage went right over my head. I have no idea what you just asked me.

Maybe it was a rhetorical question. I still missed it, as I didn't have my glove open.

That your assessment might be tarnished by the influence of being first and organic, rather than if Edi is more human than not, because she is synthetic, but able to consider her self as 'alive', not unlike a human might, if they took a notion.

I doubt you're as old as me..lol

[Wayning_Star]

D24O wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

I meant 'alone' within ourselves. Synthetics have their 'hub' of knowlege, like the Geth have their collective, so they're always among themselves,as that is 'them'. Alien I know, but there it is. Edi has the Normandy and her brood crew to associate with, in a relative different fashion than even Commander Shepard would have at the top of the food chain there. He's alone with himself, but NOT Edi,ever..or as long as her core system resides on the Normandy.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding you. Are you referring to the fact that by partly being the Normandy, she's not alone? 

When we think of our 'self' we see only our minds eye, that projector gizmo just there in the forebrain. Edi probably doesn't have that, she has all those sensors around the ship and possible elsewhere if she's invoked other tech. So she's not alone, per se, with herself, as she veiws her 'self'.  It's the human condition that Edi and possibly Geth aspire to, that feeling of 'self'. They don't really know what they're missing,eh?

[SNascimento]

She is alive and she is a person, just a different kind.