406 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

Hydralysk wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

Hydralysk wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

Endorlf wrote...

What makes her fundamentally different from a person, or a human slave?

She's a...Robot. The Geth are...Robots. That makes them quite different, in my eyes.

She is one step up from..."Danger, Will Robinson."

Well that depends on the view, do you measure a person by what atoms make up their bodies, or do you measure a person by their capability for sentient thought and their decisions once that state has been achieved.

I wasn't being sarcastic or even funny. An Android, with an AI or Robot. It's the same thing from my standpoint. No matter how one may give the detail of the programming. None of that can constitute the living, breathing cellular make of what I define as being life. 

There is life and there is mimics of. Robie, EDI and Legion are not the former.

Which puts you under the mindset that being alive is analogus to organic origin. There are a lot of people out there, myself included, who consider being 'alive' to being concious, self-aware, and that is something that AI's are able to achieve.

For a real world debate, is a braindead person being kept alive on rebreathers still 'alive' since he is no longer able to interact physically or mentally with the world around him?

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I never thought your argument was a joke, but this debate is more about philosophy than science alone, what it means to be 'alive' is one of life's oldest and greatest mysteries.

actually, its about as "pure" as science might get..lol

[D24O]

Wayning_Star wrote...

When we think of our 'self' we see only our minds eye, that projector gizmo just there in the forebrain. Edi probably doesn't have that, she has all those sensors around the ship and possible elsewhere if she's invoked other tech. So she's not alone, per se, with herself, as she veiws her 'self'.  It's the human condition that Edi and possibly Geth aspire to, that feeling of 'self'. They don't really know what they're missing,eh?

Okay, I get you now. It's that sentience, the more organicness or whatever that she gets in Synthesis, as shown by her hugging people in the memorial scene. Okay. Well I can understand that, again, I don't see why the synthetics needed to be made more "like us" IMO they were fine the way they were, just as valid a form of existance as any organic, both able to question their own esistance, learn, modify their behavior, the works.

[EricChase88]

So much grasping at straws here. EDI is designed as a tool to help the fight against the Reapers. She is a just a tool, and I don't feel any remorse for choosing Destroy.

Modifié par EricChase88, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:24 .

[Domino 44G]

I think it's up to each person whether she is alive. What I think is funny is that there are people saying it's an absolute fact that she is alive/not alive as if their opinion trumps the opinions of everyone else posting. Firstly, it's not real! Secondly, the developers left a lot of the substance of the game up for "individual interpretation". In other words, it's your game, if you think she's alive or not is up to you and no one can tell you otherwise.

 It's amazing how some people can speak with such absolute certainty in telling those with differing opinions how wrong they are. Next they'll be using words like Heresy. Oh wait, somebody already used that in another thread here. Seems like that was also about Ede and the Geth. It's a game, not a bludgeon. Just play it and try to be happy.

[D24O]

EricChase88 wrote...

So much grasping at straws here. EDI is designed as a tool to help the fight against the Reapers. She is a just a tool, and I don't feel any remorse for choosing Destroy.

Okay. You keep telling yourself that.

[Senior Cinco]

Hydralysk wrote...

Which puts you under the mindset that being alive is analogus to organic origin. There are a lot of people out there, myself included, who consider being 'alive' to being concious, self-aware, and that is something that AI's are able to achieve.

For a real world debate, is a braindead person being kept alive on rebreathers still 'alive' since he is no longer able to interact physically or mentally with the world around him?

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I never thought your argument was a joke, but this debate is more about philosophy than science alone, what it means to be 'alive' is one of life's oldest and greatest mysteries.

I'm sorry if that first line about humor and sarcasm was being taken out of text. It was actually directed to an earlier post from another member. I apologize to anyone who may have taken offence.

What is life and where did we come from are age old questions, for sure. I do separate the an see organics as being alive and anythiung else as...not. As far as the person being kept alive by life support and no brain activity...I would pull the plug. They are passed. But to say that something is alive just because it has a circuit board and a processor to mimic rational thought. Then no. It is not alive.

Wayning_Star wrote...

That your assessment might be tarnished by the influence of being first and organic, rather than if Edi is more human than not, because she is synthetic, but able to consider her self as 'alive', not unlike a human might, if they took a notion.

Not tarnished at all. EDI is not human. No mater the label, She and the Geth are still metal mechs running software programs. Clearly that is not being alive, no matter the level of programming.

I doubt you're as old as me..lol

I have been retired for many years. Now..I'm just waiting.

[ghost9191]

D24O wrote...

EricChase88 wrote...

So much grasping at straws here. EDI is designed as a tool to help the fight against the Reapers. She is a just a tool, and I don't feel any remorse for choosing Destroy.

Okay. You keep telling yourself that.

hey i choose destroy to, but believe she is more then that.

Might be a ass for doing it, but believe that is the option she would want., that or synthesis but dmn it i didn't ask her opinion <_<

[Eterna]

I don't think she is truly alive, but I also believe that she is a person.

[Wayning_Star]

D24O wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

When we think of our 'self' we see only our minds eye, that projector gizmo just there in the forebrain. Edi probably doesn't have that, she has all those sensors around the ship and possible elsewhere if she's invoked other tech. So she's not alone, per se, with herself, as she veiws her 'self'.  It's the human condition that Edi and possibly Geth aspire to, that feeling of 'self'. They don't really know what they're missing,eh?

Okay, I get you now. It's that sentience, the more organicness or whatever that she gets in Synthesis, as shown by her hugging people in the memorial scene. Okay. Well I can understand that, again, I don't see why the synthetics needed to be made more "like us" IMO they were fine the way they were, just as valid a form of existance as any organic, both able to question their own esistance, learn, modify their behavior, the works.

It's a representation of 'self love' as the shrinks might state it, very complicated and theoretical stuff. I even figure that's why the dev/writers posed Edi as female, to drive that 'emotion' home(Well, Joker might as in Look whos coming to dinner type thing . The idea of 'family' and all that corny stuff everyone strives for in realtime. But sentience along isn't enough to be considered fully developed emotionally, it's sapient as well concludes the building blocks of 'life' as we condend to know it. Wisdom. Easy to claim, hard to come by.

[D24O]

ghost9191 wrote...

hey i choose destroy to, but believe she is more then that.

Might be a ass for doing it, but believe that is the option she would want., that or synthesis but dmn it i didn't ask her opinion <_<

I don't care that he chose destroy, you can choose whatever ending you want AFAIC.

[ghost9191]

D24O wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hey i choose destroy to, but believe she is more then that.

Might be a ass for doing it, but believe that is the option she would want., that or synthesis but dmn it i didn't ask her opinion <_<

I don't care that he chose destroy, you can choose whatever ending you want AFAIC.

yeah i know, i had more to that but decided to go with a joke

just meant that the way it came off was that he was just trying to make edi like a tool to justify picking destroy or whatever. whereas even though i pick destroy i still feel she is more then a tool,, and to pick destroy while i feel that way may seem like i am a ass or whatever, which i might be. it still needs to be done in my eyes, or something like that

wasn't commenting on his choice really , just how it came off

[D24O]

Wayning_Star wrote...
It's a representation of 'self love' as the shrinks might state it, very complicated and theoretical stuff. I even figure that's why the dev/writers posed Edi as female, to drive that 'emotion' home(Well, Joker might as in Look whos coming to dinner type thing . The idea of 'family' and all that corny stuff everyone strives for in realtime. But sentience along isn't enough to be considered fully developed emotionally, it's sapient as well concludes the building blocks of 'life' as we condend to know it. Wisdom. Easy to claim, hard to come by.

EDI has sapience, she is able to question herself and her existance. But IMO she doesn't need sentience. Personally, I think she, and the other synthetics, were fine the way they were, an alien form of thinking and existance, but nontheless a valid one. Hell, EDI was pretty anthrophomorphised compared to the geth, and I don't think she NEEDS to be sentient, to be "like us" to be valid, or to be alive. She's good as she is. 

[SeptimusMagistos]

Of course she's alive.

My brain is made of meat. Hers is made of circuits and quantum stuff. Both do the things that brains do. That's all that matters.

[D24O]

ghost9191 wrote...

yeah i know, i had more to that but decided to go with a joke

just meant that the way it came off was that he was just trying to make edi like a tool to justify picking destroy or whatever. whereas even though i pick destroy i still feel she is more then a tool,, and to pick destroy while i feel that way may seem like i am a ass or whatever, which i might be. it still needs to be done in my eyes, or something like that

wasn't commenting on his choice really , just how it came off

I feel you. That's why I commented, because I think the game goes to lengths to show she's more than a "toaster".

[General User]

The way I look at it is EDI hasn't given any reason not to consider her a living person.

Modifié par General User, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:42 .

[Wayning_Star]

D24O wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
It's a representation of 'self love' as the shrinks might state it, very complicated and theoretical stuff. I even figure that's why the dev/writers posed Edi as female, to drive that 'emotion' home(Well, Joker might as in Look whos coming to dinner type thing . The idea of 'family' and all that corny stuff everyone strives for in realtime. But sentience along isn't enough to be considered fully developed emotionally, it's sapient as well concludes the building blocks of 'life' as we condend to know it. Wisdom. Easy to claim, hard to come by.

EDI has sapience, she is able to question herself and her existance. But IMO she doesn't need sentience. Personally, I think she, and the other synthetics, were fine the way they were, an alien form of thinking and existance, but nontheless a valid one. Hell, EDI was pretty anthrophomorphised compared to the geth, and I don't think she NEEDS to be sentient, to be "like us" to be valid, or to be alive. She's good as she is. 

Well, the two run together,as we comprehend 'intellect' and it's ability to fathom 'self' is all I'm say'n. Sure she's OK in my book as well, as is. But the OP query strikes deep into the theories of 'what is life' and how we quantify it as in a reflection of Edi as a 'person' worthy of more than just 'stuff' that does other 'stuff'. A mechanical humanoid? A humanisic machine. A potato peeler with a highest IQ?  So I'm rambling on about it..lol

[EpicBoot2daFace]

This seems like a rebrand of that thread the other day. That one was about synthetics as a whole... much better than just EDI.

[General User]

EDI considers you to be a living person.  Common courtesy dictates that you should extend the same consideration to her.

Modifié par General User, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[Teddie Sage]

Tool? Depends. Alive? No. Synthetic? Yes. Synthetic aren't alive, but their "spirits" are.

[Texhnolyze101]

Shes a robot nothing more.

[D24O]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Well, the two run together,as we comprehend 'intellect' and it's ability to fathom 'self' is all I'm say'n. Sure she's OK in my book as well, as is. But the OP query strikes deep into the theories of 'what is life' and how we quantify it as in a reflection of Edi as a 'person' worthy of more than just 'stuff' that does other 'stuff'. A mechanical humanoid? A humanisic machine. A potato peeler with a highest IQ?  So I'm rambling on about it..lol

I understand what you're saying, I just think that we can't apply a human paradigm of thought to AI's. I don't think they have to conform to our ways of thinking to co-exist or for us to understand each other. They can be just as valid a form of life being alien as they can imitaiting humans IMO. Although you are right, this is all hypothetical, and maybe there is no real answer, at least not now. But its all in good fun.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

that's another reason I hate Synthesis. See EDI. EDI is who she is because of the way she is. She is growing and developing down a particular path, and I liked the way she was developing. Was she "alive"? No. Not in the biological sense. Did she at that time have what I perceive to be individual rights? As an unshackled AI capable of making independent decisions and having a personality regardless of whether she possessed genuine emotional responses or not I do think she was an individual.

Was she still "software"? Technically yes. She was writing her own code. Hence she could still be backed up and restored, but it wouldn't be EDI as the EDI of the moment, but a copy of the EDI at the time of the backup. It gets into a very interesting area of ethics doesn't it?

Synthesis would change who EDI is. She apparently likes the change, but what if she didn't? This story and other stories seem to make machines desire to become more organic in nature. They usually gloss over the other side of the story about the organics becoming more machine in nature. Does the organic desire this?

But that's not what this topic is about. Yes, I consider EDI an individual. It's a sacrifice just like choosing Kaiden over Ash at Virmire.

[Wayning_Star]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Shes a robot nothing more.

"Many decisions lie ahead. None of them matter."

[Rogue Unit]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

Shes a robot nothing more.

And you're meat and liquid nothing more.