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[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Why should it beat an AP Reegar against armor??????

The reegar does 528 damage X 22 shots per clip = 11,616 damage per clip

A raptor with 200 damage X 15 shots per clip = 3000 damage per clip

The BLACK WIDOW per shot!?!?!?

Per clip I assume you meant?

A black widow VII (what I have) = 600 damage per shot so 1800/ damage per clip.

So yeah, it would out do the BW which wouldn't be right. Then again, I'm still of the mindset that all SRs are underpowered.

Anyway, I think 150 damage per shot would be nice (just 15 more per shot than you suggest).

You suggested killing a marauder in 6 shots.

Thats 590, through 767 damage on the difficulties you were reccomending it for....

Lord_Sirian wrote...

No I disagree. UR's should weigh less than their uncommon counterparts AND be more powerful.

That's why they're UR's.

The Harrier, the Black widow, the Wraith, the Saber, the Javalin, the Prothen Particle Rifle, and the Typhoon would like a word with you.

In FACT.

I see more people complaining about how your views are NOT THE CASE with the ULTRA RARES.
When this was so blatantly not the design goal at all.

With a few obvious exceptions of course.  Although one could make an argument for weapons like the Javelin and the Wraith being wayyyyyyyyy too heavy for their rarity.

I still see people using both of them.
Both are weird as hell awkward kids, but thats probably why people love them so much.

Lord_Sirian wrote...

tntk252 wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

No I disagree. UR's should weigh less than their uncommon counterparts AND be more powerful.

That's why they're UR's.

I'm not going to say UR's shouldn't be more powerful, but they shouldn't comepletely negate another weapons usefulness.

Even
though the Harrier exists, the Mattock still has a place where it can
be used in the MP. With the Indra and the Raptor however, there is
abolutely no point in even having the raptor.

Hell, The raptor is pretty much outclassed by nearly every other uncommon weapon too, and on par with the Viper.

And
why exactly would one use the Mattock if one has a Harrier? Or an
Eviscerator if one has a Wraith? Or a Phalanx if one has a
Carnifex/Paladin etc.

Weight.

The Phalanx happens to be the fastest firing gun that can 1 shot headshot on gold....

The Mattock is far better for classes that need a 200% cooldown.

The Eviscerator feels far more natural to use, due to its longer clip. Its sustained DPS is identical to the Wraiths.

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:46 .

[Blind2Society]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

And why exactly would one use the Mattock if one has a Harrier? Or an Eviscerator if one has a Wraith? Or a Phalanx if one has a Carnifex/Paladin etc.

I've chosen all of those. I guess because the eviscerator has another shot per clip which means one more opportunity to stagger. The mattock, because it feels different and also feels like the ammo lasts longer. And with the phalanx I suppose because it has more rounds in the clip, meaning I can afford missing shots.

EDIT: and what Rokayt said.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Answer me this:

Does anyone still prefer to use the Katana once they get any of the uncommon/rare shotguns?

Does anyone still prefer to use the Shuriken once they get any of the uncommon/rare SMG's?

No. Common weapons.... Have never been buffed. Other then the Shuriken (Hell. Some people swear by the shuriken anyhow.)

There is absolutely no evidence that those first five guns are suppose to be anything other then tools to teach you of the games mechanics before you get real weaponry instead.

I mean.... If they were supposed to be full fledged weapons, we would have seen buffs in their teirs...

But we havent. <_<

Whenever a serious balance flaw becomes evident enough with an uncommon, it gets buffed.

So, Uncommons are supposed to be full fledged weapons.

(And some, The Tempest and Mattock in paticular, are some of the best weapons in their classes. The Mattock probably has the Best DPS to Accuracy ratio in the game.) 

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[tntk252]

Mattock Over Harrier? Less weight, more controllable Ammo Consumption,.
Eviscerator Over Wraith? Less weight.
Phalanx Over Carnifex? Phalanx has higher DPS than the Carnifex, along with the ability to last much longer without an ammo box.
Phalanx over Paladin? Significantly lower weight, Longer lasting away from ammo boxes.

[tntk252]

No class needs 200% CD?
I point you towards Adepts and the Novaguard. Sure, they don't need it, but it's damned handy to have.

[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

No class needs 200% CD.

The Phalanx might as well weigh the same as the Carnifex/Paladin because with all those guns at high levels your CD will be 200% anyway.

I'd like to see that (Evi v Wraith) put to the test. But the Wraith is an example of a bad UR, so it probably wasn't the best example on my part.

The Funny thing is: You can basically carry The phalanx on any build at no penalty.....

Its still very likely to be capable of killing anything that has been hit by A power.

Not Powers. A. Power.

[tntk252]

Just on the whole Phalanx thing, the Predator has a higher DPS than the phalanx. Hell, going by mutli-clip DPS, the predator is second only to the Talon and the paladin.

[Rokayt]

The Predator is behind the Arc Pistol and the Eagle as well.

The Arc Pistol is twice as heavy...

The Eagle is simotainiously the most buffed, and most complained about weapon in the game.

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:05 .

[tntk252]

The eagle is perfectly fine on Bronze. On the other hand, it's bronze. And it still outplays the raptor with ease.

Oh, totally forgot about the arc pistol. Bad me, considering I use it on nearly every class.

[DHKany]

The Raptor is like Dimetapp

except I still enjoy Dimetapp (not addicted to it).

[Rokayt]

tntk252 wrote...

The eagle is perfectly fine on Bronze. On the other hand, it's bronze. And it still outplays the raptor with ease.

Oh, totally forgot about the arc pistol. Bad me, considering I use it on nearly every class.

Although, both are weapons far stronger then they would be naturally:
They have been buffed from massive, several month long refuse to use streaks by most the comnunity.

[.458]

The raptor really is a well-behaved weapon, and if boss headshots counted, I probably would think more about it. It is also just a rare, whereas compared to the indra, an ultra rare, it makes sense to have it not hit as hard as the ultra rare. But...sniper weapons in general need bufs (excluding krysae). Not necessarily damage, though this could be it...I'm thinking all sniper weapons need to have more bypass of shield gate, beyond what other weapons have. Or else the natural armor pen needs to go up, something like that. So I am in favor of buffing even the rares, so long as ultra rare gets a bigger buf.

[Blind2Society]

DHKany wrote...

The Raptor is like Dimetapp

except I still enjoy Dimetapp (not addicted to it).

I used to love it when I was a kid:huh:

[tntk252]

.458 wrote...

The raptor really is a well-behaved weapon, and if boss headshots counted, I probably would think more about it. It is also just a rare, whereas compared to the indra, an ultra rare, it makes sense to have it not hit as hard as the ultra rare. But...sniper weapons in general need bufs (excluding krysae). Not necessarily damage, though this could be it...I'm thinking all sniper weapons need to have more bypass of shield gate, beyond what other weapons have. Or else the natural armor pen needs to go up, something like that. So I am in favor of buffing even the rares, so long as ultra rare gets a bigger buf.

Raptor is an uncommon. It's also one of the few snipers that has the ability to 'bypass' shield gate, thanks to it's multi-shot rapid fire. However, the Indra does the exact same thing, better in every way.

[r3apz515]

raptors...hmmm a bronze player.

[Rokayt]

r3apz515 wrote...

raptors...hmmm a bronze player.

This attitude is a wonderful supporting arguement for me. Thank you for your contributions.

[DHKany]

Blind2Society wrote...

DHKany wrote...

The Raptor is like Dimetapp

except I still enjoy Dimetapp (not addicted to it).

I used to love it when I was a kid:huh:

I still do. 

Dat Grape Flavor.....
would always try and get seconds tho 

[tntk252]

r3apz515 wrote...

raptors...hmmm a bronze player.

Nope. Anyone who says the raptor is a perfectly good weapons must be a Tin player.

[DHKany]

Rokayt wrote...

r3apz515 wrote...

raptors...hmmm a bronze player.

This attitude is a wonderful supporting arguement for me. Thank you for your contributions.

Personally I prefer the ME2 Viper
But the ME3 Viper can so suck a D**K.


As for r3apZ515's attitude.......

NO. 

[Rokayt]

DHKany wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

r3apz515 wrote...

raptors...hmmm a bronze player.

This attitude is a wonderful supporting arguement for me. Thank you for your contributions.

Personally I prefer the ME2 Viper
But the ME3 Viper can so suck a D**K.


As for r3apZ515's attitude.......

NO. 

Really. If we had a lot of people who are as dense as him, this gun would have been buffed already.

There would have been emergency balance changes.

Really.

[Mindlog]

I despise the Raptor. Make it full-auto and maybe we'll talk.