980 réponses à ce sujet

[stefbomb]

Rokayt wrote...

stefbomb wrote...

I love the Raptor, it just feels good to use. Unfortunately it does do inferior damage. Its only saving grace is that it does not have a hip-fire penalty. Do you factor that into your calculations?

It does have a rate of fire penalty! It does 15% less damage hipfired, according to community testing.

It still doesn't really do more damage hipfired then the Indra does per second (Due to its hipfire accuracy being less then half as good as the indras,) or the Mattocks (Due to the Mattock having NO penalty, doing more damage, and firing faster..)

Thanks, you're just a fount of information! Guess that means I'll be switching the only character I have using the Raptor over to the Indra 

[Rokayt]

stefbomb wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

stefbomb wrote...

I love the Raptor, it just feels good to use. Unfortunately it does do inferior damage. Its only saving grace is that it does not have a hip-fire penalty. Do you factor that into your calculations?

It does have a rate of fire penalty! It does 15% less damage hipfired, according to community testing.

It still doesn't really do more damage hipfired then the Indra does per second (Due to its hipfire accuracy being less then half as good as the indras,) or the Mattocks (Due to the Mattock having NO penalty, doing more damage, and firing faster..)

Thanks, you're just a fount of information! Guess that means I'll be switching the only character I have using the Raptor over to the Indra 

Well... If you are looking for a shotgun, the Raptor is a better shotgun then the Indra.  (Although the Tempest trumps both at that.)

Lord_Sirian wrote...

The Raptor is an uncommon......

It's fine as it is.

Really? Because I just prooved that it is weaker then the two 'weakest' weapons in the game, a Uncommon that is lighter then it, as well as a weapon that is lighter, easier to use, and overall far superior to it!

In fact, My buff is exactly what the Raptor should look like if we buffed it to the level that the Mattock is to the Harrier...

So really, it isn't fine.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:31 .

[Influ]

Rokayt wrote...

I played with the Eagle Earlier today...... I found its accuracy to be far better then what its crosshairs report it as being, and its recoil no worse then the Tempest its technical DPS matches.

It is technically weaker due to the fact that nobody has it at level X currently.

Granted, I've only used it once and that was a long time ago. But the thing that really irked me about it was the accuracy, especially with sustained fire and out of cover. I still can't see it beating the Raptor at anything but close range. Well, at least against stuff with heads.

[Ramsutin]

1st I'd like to GET the Raptor. I have unlocked every UR but not a single Raptor.

[Rokayt]

Influ wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

I played with the Eagle Earlier today...... I found its accuracy to be far better then what its crosshairs report it as being, and its recoil no worse then the Tempest its technical DPS matches.

It is technically weaker due to the fact that nobody has it at level X currently.

Granted, I've only used it once and that was a long time ago. But the thing that really irked me about it was the accuracy, especially with sustained fire and out of cover. I still can't see it beating the Raptor at anything but close range. Well, at least against stuff with heads.

Its crosshairs say its accuracy is terrible.

Its spread is quite tight if you manage the recoil. (If you play consoles, using it on a turian will show you that its spread is almost as good as the Raptors.)

Raptors Zoom aim errror (Spread): .1

Eagles Zoom aim error: .2

Throw a scope on that Eagle, and you have an automatic Raptor!

Meanwhile the eagle: 

Weighs a quarter of the Raptors weight.

Gains bonuses from Rate of fire boosts.

Has no hipfire penalty.

Has more ammo.

Has larger clips.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:37 .

[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

The Raptor worse than the locust? Impossibru.

Also, the Eagle has huge recoil which makes sustained headshots out of cover extremely difficult.

The Raptors recoil makes it so you have to slow down your fire by a good 30% in order to get sustained headshots out of cover.

However, It is actually better then the Locust still
People have been puting an obscure level of value on that Locust.... (Probably because of the psychology of it having been buffed.)
So, from what people have told me, its actually quite popular in the metagame.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:39 .

[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Also the Eagle and Indra are promotional and UR weapons respectively, while the Arc pistol is a rare. All of these SHOULD outclass the Raptor.

The Mattock is probably the best argument you can make, but honestly... it's not that much better. Both weapons are for people who want to murder their fingers while playing. Both are rarely used.

Weight is also a determining factor of a weapons power level:
-Why should a weapon that is a quarter of the weight pack equal, easier to use firepower?
-One that is significantly lighter should not pack significantly more, easier to use firepower.
-One that is half the weight, far more flexibile, and far better in all respect should be considered incomparable?
Total Nonsense.

Secondly, You show a strong distaste for the raptors playstyle. Doesn't this unessecarly biass you against this weapon?

And lastly:
-The Mattock weighs less then the Harrier, but is almost as strong. Why? It semi auto, and hard as hell to use.
-If the Raptor weighs more then the Indra, and is semi auto, and hard as hell to use, isn't that a convincing reason to make it just as strong as the indra, because it weighing more, and being harder to use are both factors in deciding a weapons power level.? 

Unless you are willing to have a 1.4 weight Indra to justify the Raptors place in the power scale, given the way other fair and balanced things scale in it, I would STRONGLY reccomend just staying totally quiet for this one.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:48 .

[Rokayt]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

The Mattock isn't anywhere near as strong as the Harrier. :|

Mattock DPS: 971.25DPS

Harrier DPS: 1187DPS

The Harrier is only 20% stronger then the Mattock, despite the Mattock weighing 25% less then it.

Meanwhile, the Mattock is far more accurate.

In fact, this impies that being an ultra-rare is worth LESS then being an automatic weapon.

In fact. If I took this as the litteral golden rule of balanace strength-to-weight-to-rarity-to-fire-mode ratio, The Raptor should be doing about 230 damage if the Indra is fair and balanced as it is.

Saying that the Indra/Raptor relationship is fine, is saying that living out in the desert, and licking cane toads for a living is totally fine.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[defleshing]

raptor is fine as is the incisor is the one that desperately needs a buff.

[Blind2Society]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

It's fine as it is.

No, no it's not.

[LadyAlekto]

Statswise, mattock and harrier are equals

I support this notion, i love the raptor, sometimes take it out for a game or two before putting it gently back and crying how my most beloved weapon beside rosie is so bad nowadays

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 05 septembre 2012 - 05:58 .

[Rokayt]

defleshing wrote...

raptor is fine as is the incisor is the one that desperately needs a buff.

Both do.

With the Incisor I just have less data to work with on. So I have no clue as to how to change it.

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Statswise, mattock and harrier are equals

I
support this notion, i love the raptor, sometimes take it out for a
game or two before putting it gently back and crying how my most beloved
weapon beside rosie is so bad nowadays

I carry on Rosies tradition with Rivit nowadays.

However.... I have found that the Indra has been getting closer and closer to castrating Rivit as well...... It makes me very seriously concerned.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:01 .

[LadyAlekto]

Incisor, minrefire 0.2, rof 1200, zoomrecoil and fireaccuracypenaltys halved.

Damage i think 10% could be appropiate, but unsure about it

*edit*
Which is your rivit?

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[Uchimura]

Rokayt wrote...

It does weigh a lot more, and is a lot harder to use then the Indra, I will admit, so it actually should be far stronger.

Yea, semi-autos should be stronger than they are in games in general, but since people can use macros or tricks to get around it, they're balanced so that their potential isn't too high and they suffer.

Eagle's actually not that bad.. it'll just be a while before we get it to X. Though it still should be stronger, simply because of how difficult it is to get. Arc Pistol is meh, but should still overall be better than uncommon level. The appropriate solution would be to add something similar on the rare tier, but how many people would want that.. no idea. Also, isn't the Incisor considered the worst weapon?

[Rokayt]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Incisor, minrefire 0.2, rof 1200, zoomrecoil and fireaccuracypenaltys halved.

Damage i think 10% could be appropiate, but unsure about it

The thing is, I feel the balancing Ideology for burst fire weapons bioware side is a bit screwy, currently.

The Min-Refire time I am finding for the Incisor tells me that its .15... Are you certain its .2 Shaded?
The ROF is 450... And it technically should fire fewer bullets per second then the Raptor.... If my calculations are right.

Rivit is my Revenant.

Uchimura wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

It does weigh a lot more, and is a lot harder to use then the Indra, I will admit, so it actually should be far stronger.

Yea,
semi-autos should be stronger than they are in games in general, but
since people can use macros or tricks to get around it, they're balanced
so that their potential isn't too high and they suffer.

If we are so afraid of macros, we should nerf the mattock (ESPECIALLY Since macros do work on it.) Except we arn't. Because people do not use them.

Interestingly enough,  a few months back I did try to write a macro for the raptor.

I had one major issue: The Raptors seems to resist macros. If the clicks were consistant in timing at all, they would be ignored by it, and I would be left with a gun that simply would not fire for several seconds.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:11 .

[LadyAlekto]

Thats what i consider it values should be, sry am a bit sleepy, but ye its actual minrefire is 0.15 with a rof of 450 and has a lot of recoil and firepenalty (affecting accuracy/recoil randomness per shot)

*edit*
Ahhh, nice name for her as well

*edit2*
Also no one who likes the gun for what it is would use a macro, youd be giving up its advantage of maximum firecontrol

Modifié par ShadedPhoenix, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:15 .

[Uchimura]

They're definitely afraid of strong weapons if they give us 'buffs' like what the Locust got last time. Sigh.

[Rokayt]

ShadedPhoenix wrote...

Thats what i consider it values should be, sry am a bit sleepy, but ye its actual minrefire is 0.15 with a rof of 450 and has a lot of recoil and firepenalty (affecting accuracy/recoil randomness per shot)

*edit*
Ahhh, nice name for him as well

Mines male.

As for the Incisor... I would personally ask for bioware to reduce its fire delay first out of everthing.

A change in its rate of fire, while lore freindly, would be a style change: Something which Bioware doesn't seem to like doing (When not nerfing.)

Part of suggesting buffs is making sure that they are reasonable to the developer. If they are not, no way are we going to actually get what we want.

Uchimura wrote...

They're definitely afraid of strong weapons if they give us 'buffs' like what the Locust got last time. Sigh.

They did buff the mattock from 95 damage per shot, to 129 damage per shot. That is almost a 40% buff.

As for the locust..... I do need to hop back on that train.

HOWEVER. Percentage wize....
It started out at 32 damage.
It does 47 damage.
It has been buffed by a total of 50%.

Its tough for a dev to admit that they were that wrong in the beginning.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[Uchimura]

That was after the Harrier came out though. A unique occurrence because that was actually an AR that did damage and wasn't unwieldy, something the community wanted.

[bondiboy]

Full support from ex Raptor lover

[Rokayt]

Uchimura wrote...

That was after the Harrier came out though. A unique occurrence because that was actually an AR that did damage and wasn't unwieldy, something the community wanted.

The Indra is a sniper rifle that fired quickly, and didn't do poor damage. Another thing the community wanted (It also recieved a massive buff.)

The Raptor is to the Indra.

What the Mattock is to the Harrier.

Except heavier, and weaker.


Where normally, being heavier, and semi auto/unwieldy would make you far stronger.

Modifié par Rokayt, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:24 .