980 réponses à ce sujet

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

Get rid of the minrefiretime but lower the RoF to 400 or 450, than bring the damage up to around ~120-150.

Sounds about right to me.

So many overkill suggestions these young ones give.

Soon they will see the light of balance.

[MajorStupidity]

Blind2Society wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

Get rid of the minrefiretime but lower the RoF to 400 or 450, than bring the damage up to around ~120-150.

Sounds about right to me.

I meant that the damage at rank 1 would be ~120 at rank X it would be ~150

[Blind2Society]

^  Ah well that works for me, mine is at X ; )

Rokayt wrote...

So many overkill suggestions these young ones give.

Soon they will see the light of balance.

Young ones eh? Hmmm, maybe but I don't see how what I just quited/edited wouldn't be balanced. You suggest 135, I suggest 150. I fail to see how that 15 points would break the weapon.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

^  Ah well that works for me, mine is at X ; )

Rokayt wrote...

So many overkill suggestions these young ones give.

Soon they will see the light of balance.

Young ones eh? Hmmm, maybe but I don't see how what I just quited/edited wouldn't be balanced. You suggest 135, I suggest 150. I fail to see how that 15 points would break the weapon.

Thats 15X6 damage per second you are adding to the gun. The highest an accurate weapon has gotten is 1100.

It would basically have 1000 DPS.

(Amusingly, 150 damage per shot would give 999.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
DPS)

[MajorStupidity]

If the RoF is going to be as low as 400 I believe it should do some extra damage over the mattock, and keeping the higher weight... yes it needs to extra damage.

[Rokayt]

MajorStupidity wrote...

If the RoF is going to be as low as 400 I believe it should do some extra damage over the mattock, and keeping the higher weight... yes it needs to extra damage.

136 is a good 7 damage above the mattock.

The highest calculated number that I saw that would have been fair to the mattock would be 141.3 damage.

[Blind2Society]

^ Fair to the mattock? The mattock has other advantages. Great hipfire accuracy and no penalty (good for cqc), and you aren't restricted when aiming down sight. Meaning you still have situational awareness.

You really need to quit with basing your numbers off the highest possible RoF. What would really be nice is if we could figure the average RoF people actually get out of it/use in game. Then we can get an actual number.

And what's wrong with 1000dps anyway? 4 seconds to kill a single marauder isn't even close to overpowered.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[MajorStupidity]

Rokayt wrote...

MajorStupidity wrote...

If the RoF is going to be as low as 400 I believe it should do some extra damage over the mattock, and keeping the higher weight... yes it needs to extra damage.

136 is a good 7 damage above the mattock.

The highest calculated number that I saw that would have been fair to the mattock would be 141.3 damage.

I could see 140, I had meant for the 150 damage to be more of an estimate anyway.

Still don't believe that 150 is unreasonable, however.

MajorStupidity wrote...

Get rid of the minrefiretime but lower the RoF to 400 or 450, than bring the damage up to around ~120-150.

Modifié par MajorStupidity, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

You really need to quit with basing your numbers off the highest possible RoF. What would really be nice is if we could figure the average RoF people actually get out of it/use in game. Then we can get an actual number.

And what's wrong with 1000dps anyway? 4 seconds to kill a single marauder isn't even close to overpowered.

Except that you are totally forgetting to look at what the highest DPS's are.

People are regularly using weapons like this at double to triple their actual DPS.
The Raptor gets headshots easily as well.....

So does 8000DPS sound to fair to you, Post consummables and all?

Besides: I dont see how this should be much better then the mattock... It follows the same rules as the Mattock.

However .1 weight is not worth 90 DPS.

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:49 .

[Blind2Society]

Rokayt wrote...

The highest calculated number that I saw that would have been fair to the mattock would be 141.3 damage.

How does 8.7 points of damage suddenly make it unfair?

Consumables are not a given and they are a bonus. Same for headshots. Meaning the gun should be balanced and effective without them.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:50 .

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

The highest calculated number that I saw that would have been fair to the mattock would be 141.3 damage.

How does 8.7 points of damage suddenly make it unfair?

Consumables are not a given and they are a bonus. Same for headshots. Meaning the gun should be balanced and effective without them.

Saying we should forget consummables, passives, and mods is saying we should forget our experience.

If you played on all level 1 characters, with the Harrier/Mattock. You would be killing marauders in 4-5 seconds.

A sniper rifle that does that at Far less weight then the Harrier/Far less clicking then the mattock IS overpowered in that context.

[Gravisanimi]

Rokayt, I'm joining in on this avatar challenge, I'll change mine to this

[Blind2Society]

Rokayt wrote...


Saying we should forget consummables, passives, and mods is saying we should forget our experience.

Factoring all of that into making a gun viable means you are severely limiting choice and build options. All of those things are bonuses and the weapons should be viable and effective without them.

[Zero132132]

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...


Saying we should forget consummables, passives, and mods is saying we should forget our experience.

Factoring all of that into making a gun viable means you are severely limiting choice and build options. All of those things are bonuses and the weapons should be viable and effective without them.

Agreed. Players on this forum forget that most of the playerbase doesn't have their **** maxed like most of us do. A lot of people don't actually HAVE that many consumables. A weapon shouldn't only be decent with a Rail Amp III, Amp V, Stabilization Module III, Extended/High Calibur Barrel V, some ammo at IV on a Geth Infiltrator spec'd for damage and accuracy. Half the time, it seems like that's how people show that a weapon is too overpowered.

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...


Saying we should forget consummables, passives, and mods is saying we should forget our experience.

Factoring all of that into making a gun viable means you are severely limiting choice and build options. All of those things are bonuses and the weapons should be viable and effective without them.

A 920 DPS Raptor is totally Viable.

In fact, compared to half the weapons I use, that is pretty Killer.
Compared to the Mattock + Arc Pistol it is simply par for the course, of course.

If we are going to be balancing naked guns, We have to do it comparatively.... Since we have virtually no context in naked gun usage under our belts.

Besides. Consummables are far too common for us to balance the game ignoring them.

Gravisanimi wrote...

Rokayt, I'm joining in on this avatar challenge, I'll change mine to this

WE HAVE A CHALLENGER! (OP UPDATED)

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:22 .

[corporal doody]

so i rocked the raptor on gold with my human engie.

AP ammo....sniper amp 3....the tech/sniper 10% gear....WOOOooo...50 sniper kills.

was pretty sweet.

[Rokayt]

The Average enemy has only gotten 14% tougher then it was on release date.

So its not going to be worse then it was back then.
Only pointless due to what has happened up to now.

[Blind2Society]

Rokayt wrote...

Besides. Consummables are far too common for us to balance the game ignoring them.

That's one hell of a subjective statement. I'm almost always out of SR and shotgun rail amps. In fact, I've probaly recieved a total of around 20 in the past two months. And that's around 4 million credits every few days.

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Besides. Consummables are far too common for us to balance the game ignoring them.

That's one hell of a subjective statement. I'm almost always out of SR and shotgun rail amps. In fact, I've probaly recieved a total of around 20 in the past two months. And that's around 4 million credits every few days.

If we were going to balance the game around not having consummables, they had better be rare enough to make sure that they are something rare enough to be worth celebrating over.


If not....
Then consummables must be taken into account.

Every factor you discount is something that will reduce the accuracy of your statements.
Aside from personal ones... Such as how Orgasmic a sound is, or Skill.

We saw how inneffective personal displeasure is at balancing the game back when we released the geth.

The Faction, and the Playable characters.

Modifié par Rokayt, 07 septembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[Blind2Society]

Bonus
bo·nus    [boh-nuhs]
noun, plural bo·nus·es.

1. something given or paid over and above what is due.

2. something extra or additional given freely

And just based off of my rough estimates.

2 months = about 60 days. 4 million credits every 3 days. 60/3 = 20.  20 x 4 mil = 80 million creds.

80mill/73,000 = 1067 (rounded up) gold matches (and that's not counting any fully/partially unsuccessful matches)

So about 20 rail amps from 80 million creds (1067 gold matches) seems pretty damn rare to me.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 07 septembre 2012 - 11:14 .

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

Bonus
bo·nus    [boh-nuhs]
noun, plural bo·nus·es.

1. something given or paid over and above what is due.

2. something extra or additional given freely

The higher difficulties are basically balanced around the bonuses.

On silver, you can do fine without bonuses on any of your teamates.

On gold, you can pass without them.

Platinum has been beaten with level 1's.

I am not moving my estimate any higher then 136.5

[Blind2Society]

Rokayt wrote...

I am not moving my estimate any higher then 136.5

That's fine, you're not deciding the balance changes (no matter how many people seem to think so)

I think it deserves a bit more, you don't. I will willingly accept your change and see how it works, If I feel it isn't enough I will say so and it will simply be my opinion.

[Rokayt]

For now, The balance team hasn't made many weapons that are more powerful then 900 DPS.

We have the Pirhana, The Mattock, The Harrier, and the Reegar.

Even my change is unlikely.

However. Unless we nerf the mattock, that is exactly where the Raptor should be.

[Blind2Society]

Rokayt wrote...


However. Unless we nerf the mattock, that is exactly where the Raptor should be.

In your opinion.

[Rokayt]

Blind2Society wrote...

Rokayt wrote...


However. Unless we nerf the mattock, that is exactly where the Raptor should be.

In your opinion.

Well. My opinion is roughly the mathmaticians answer.