219 réponses à ce sujet

[Cheesesack]

Basically, what people have already said. Organics can be replaced too (reproduction, cloning, etc.) but does that make genocide justifiable. You've still murdered millions of individuals.

And if you use the argument 'they're just machines so why does it matter', you've pretty much missed the entire point of Mass Effect's story.

Modifié par Cheesesack, 05 septembre 2012 - 08:52 .

[Rommel49]

Eterna5 wrote...

Why on earth would the Quarians build the Geth again? What purpose would it serve?

Provided peace was achieved, it's stated the Geth were of huge benefit to the Quarian resettlement of Rannoch; setting up infrastructure, housing, etc. accomplishing things in days that would've taken the Quarians years to achieve on their own. Nevermind augmenting their suits to strengthen their immune systems. There's a definite incentive there.

Anywho, on the subject of "they can just be replaced, so it's no big deal"; as pointed out, that applies to organics too. It depends on whether you see them as "people" or not, I personally do - when it comes to EDI and the Geth, they're intelligent, inquisitive, and introspective: "Does this unit have a soul" indeed. Even before the Reaper Code upgrade, Legion displayed some degree of sentimentality that it couldn't explain; when asked why it didn't repair itself before finding a certain someone's N7 Armor, Legion could only answer "No Data Available".

That said, I still picked Destroy the first time around, and would again (the fact I didn't trust the Catalyst about the future implications didn't hurt). I may not like myself for it, but it was the safest option in that it guaranteed a definitive end to the threat.

Modifié par Rommel49, 05 septembre 2012 - 08:54 .

[Calamity]

 Shepard: "There is not a single N7 that hasnt sacrificed either themselves or their soldiers at some point."

[ghost9191]

would've just been a lot better if they gave us the ability to destroy just the reapers, still have control and synthesis. still appealing options to some i suppose. Just like destroy or keep the collector base

just seems like there was no real reason to have the geth and edi included in the destroy option. downside yeah but as said some would prefer to control the reapers rather then destroying them. and synthesis, well will still be wrong because of the whole freewill thing but still

think they could've given us the "blow those bastards up" option without killing geth and edi


@Calamity

no <3

Modifié par ghost9191, 05 septembre 2012 - 08:56 .

[Eain]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

We can also make new jews, I don't get the big deal. In fact I'm fairly convinced that since 1945 at least 6 million new jews were born. So I guess we can call it even and forget about the whole thing?

Modifié par Eain, 05 septembre 2012 - 09:04 .

[Eain]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

same thing can be said for humans, albeit we are organic machines, we're not so special

Humans have their own personalities, and their own set of skills. 

Machines can only do what they were made to do.

We can also only do what we were made to do.

Unless you want to argue that humans can do everything. Which they most definitely cannot.

[Calamity]

ghost9191 wrote...

would've just been a lot better if they gave us the ability to destroy just the reapers, still have control and synthesis. still appealing options to some i suppose. Just like destroy or keep the collector base

just seems like there was no real reason to have the geth and edi included in the destroy option. downside yeah but as said some would prefer to control the reapers rather then destroying them. and synthesis, well will still be wrong because of the whole freewill thing but still

think they could've given us the "blow those bastards up" option without killing geth and edi


@Calamity

no <3

Aw yes <3s   

Had just remembered that quote when James came to talk in Sheps cabin.... it seemed fitting. Personally I do pick destroy everytime. I always figured if the basis for killing Geth and EDI is because they contain Reaper code...well its not like they were melted down. We just reboot them without their reaper code. EDI had already become "aware" on luna before having the code and so was Legion.

Now THERE is the <3

[ghost9191]

not saying that it is forced though, well not that you are forced to pick destroy and in turn destroy the geth but the fact that the geth are a sacrifice just seems forced to deter us from the option

and agree calamity, i mean yeah edi has her name on the wall but there is no evidence that the geth were destroyed. no pictures of them saying why or whatever. so that be up in air for me, i mean if they were then why didn't bioware show the aftermath of that decision like they did for the krogan and such

Modifié par ghost9191, 05 septembre 2012 - 09:07 .

[Calamity]

ghost9191 wrote...

not saying that it is forced though, well not that you are forced to pick destroy and in turn destroy the geth but the fact that the geth are a sacrifice just seems forced to deter us from the option

and agree calamity, i mean yeah edi has her name on the wall but there is no evidence that the geth were destroyed. no pictures of them saying why or whatever. so that be up in air for me, i mean if they were then why didn't bioware show the aftermath of that decision like they did for the krogan and such

Yes, I think BW did not expect us nor wanted us to pick destroy and frankly, I think they were surprised that we classify (not all of us - sry if I implied this) destroy as the "best" ending.

[ghost9191]

yeah true enough

[Rommel49]

Calamity wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

not saying that it is forced though, well not that you are forced to pick destroy and in turn destroy the geth but the fact that the geth are a sacrifice just seems forced to deter us from the option

and agree calamity, i mean yeah edi has her name on the wall but there is no evidence that the geth were destroyed. no pictures of them saying why or whatever. so that be up in air for me, i mean if they were then why didn't bioware show the aftermath of that decision like they did for the krogan and such

Yes, I think BW did not expect us nor wanted us to pick destroy and frankly, I think they were surprised that we classify (not all of us - sry if I implied this) destroy as the "best" ending.

It's honestly kinda silly if they were surprised people consider destruction as the best option. It's the stated goal of the war by my commanding officers: "We Destroy them or they destroy us", and "Dead Reapers is how we win this", everything else screamed at me as to how the other options are even greater amounts of suckage, or flatly unachieveable. Synthesis? That's what the Reapers are; abominations infused with the slurry of a given species. Control? Again, everybody and everything soundly beat it into my head that it wasn't a workable option.

The fact I can potentially survive when I have people that want to see me again was just an unforseen bonus. As Patton said: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - emphasis mine.

Modifié par Rommel49, 05 septembre 2012 - 09:28 .

[IElitePredatorI]

Organics can be replaced as well, its the same story either way.

[Calamity]

Rommel49 wrote...

Calamity wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

not saying that it is forced though, well not that you are forced to pick destroy and in turn destroy the geth but the fact that the geth are a sacrifice just seems forced to deter us from the option

and agree calamity, i mean yeah edi has her name on the wall but there is no evidence that the geth were destroyed. no pictures of them saying why or whatever. so that be up in air for me, i mean if they were then why didn't bioware show the aftermath of that decision like they did for the krogan and such

Yes, I think BW did not expect us nor wanted us to pick destroy and frankly, I think they were surprised that we classify (not all of us - sry if I implied this) destroy as the "best" ending.

It's honestly kinda silly if they were surprised people consider destruction as the best option. It's the stated goal of the war by my commanding officers: "We Destroy them or they destroy us", and "Dead Reapers is how we win this", everything else screamed at me as to how the other options are even greater amounts of suckage, or flatly unachieveable. Synthesis? That's what the Reapers are; abominations infused with the slurry of a given species. Control? Again, everybody and everything soundly beat it into my head that it wasn't a workable option.

The fact I can potentially survive when I have people that want to see me again was just an unforseen bonus. As Patton said: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - emphasis mine.

Hear! Hear!

[fchopin]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

We are back with the can synthetics be truly alive or are they just mimicking aliveness question so it is up to each individual to decide.
 
In Mass Effect Bioware does not give us the tools to question the AI’s so we can find out exactly how they think or why they think like they do so there is no way for us to answer the question.

[Isichar]

OP thinks like the catalyst. Why worry about one cycle of organics when the next one is pretty much the same thing?

[elitehunter34]

As many others have said, organics can be replaced too.  If i killed your mother would you accept if I just said I'd get you a new one?  You would still be ending the existence of billions of sapient, sentient beings.  You can't replace them. They all have their own unique personalities and memories.  They aren't that different from organics.  I think you are missing some key details illusiveman.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 05 septembre 2012 - 10:05 .

[Isichar]

elitehunter34 wrote...

As many others have said, organcis can be replaced too? If i killed your mother would you accept if I just said I'd get you a new one? You would still be ending the existence of billions of sapient, sentient beings. You can't replace them. They all have their own unique personalities and memories. They aren't that different from organics. I think you are missing some key details illusiveman.

Case and point, 2 factions of geth go off in different directions and both develop differently based on different experiences. Both can come to different conclusions well still thinking in the same way. Another group of synthetics would be no less different then another cycle of organics.

Modifié par Isichar, 05 septembre 2012 - 09:46 .

[Obvakhi]

Shepard: "That's a living creature, no matter what platform it's running on."

Renegade Shepard would agree with you TC, but not Paragon.

[filetemo]

"you are not even alive, not really. You are just a machine, and machines can be broken"

[Kidd]

Carbon or silicone, I'm not racist. Everybody are as difficult or easy to replace as the other.

[ghost9191]

maybe, other factors to consider also though. Loved ones and such being lost because of a choice might influence your decision

[ghost9191]

Speezy wrote...

EDI and the geth cannot be replaced. Read the codex. Specifically the entry about blue boxes.

geth can be replaceed, they will not be the same , or have the same experiences but are easily rebuilt

and not shepards fault no one made a back up

[Dark_Caduceus]

The implication is that if we ever remake synthetics they will just rebel and kill their creators. That's the issue.

It suggests a galaxy, even universe, in which synthetic and organic intelligences cannot co-exist without conflict (and eventually the complete destruction of one or the other).

The implication is also that sooner or later, organic beings will create synthetics. Maybe not in months, or decades, or even millenia; but eventually.

This leads to a false proposition, a dilemma which can't be solved. I.E - Destroy is a false option.

Modifié par Dark_Caduceus, 05 septembre 2012 - 10:42 .

[ghost9191]

and the others are not?

last i checked there is only one threat at the time. reapers. there is no evidence of synthetics rising against organics, only catalysts broken logic

Modifié par ghost9191, 05 septembre 2012 - 10:55 .