219 réponses à ce sujet

[elitehunter34]

dreman9999 wrote...

Can that be the same with organics?

If I save the organics dna data of a race, would it be ok for me to let them die because I can revive then via cloning?(Yes, this can be done in MEU)

The issues is kill all the individuals of that race, synthetic or organic. Saying a synthetic can be replace is no different then saying an organic can be replaced.

Oh dear god, Dreman actually said something that I totally agree with.  Am I dreaming?

[TheGreatDayne]

B-but... I promote anything that limits human/alien contact and social activity! And synthetics are neither! They are like sentient computers I've always wanted!

I kid, I kid! But, whatever... I was trying to kill my Shepard... She will suffer crippled the rest of her life in a universe that has broken technology if I don't! Or something... I stopped caring...

[Dunabar]

Please make new Synthetics after saving my Shepard from the rubble.

My canon Shepard demands more Synthetics to shoot and blow up. More so shooting the ones that just 'happen' to have N7 armor on them.

[LucasShark]

OP... you're an idiot.

Individually no human is special either.

[RainbowDazed]

Sure they could and probably will build new synthetics, but there will not be another Legion or EDI. Those two had evolved somewhere beyond of what can be created.

[eddieoctane]

Organics can be replaced (via cloning), There's nothing special about any of them...

..except for the unique experiences each one has had which shape the individual personality and contribute to the collective culture. Though I suppose you could do what Dhalsim did to Blanka in the Street Fighter movie (the one with van Damme) and effectively upload memories into an individual before they pop out of the cloning pods.

You're right, OP, nothing is that special at all. So I guess refusal is the best ending. Then whatever genocide is wrought on the galaxy, it on the hands of the next generation.

[Yeulia]

this could go on for hours/days/years/etc. when there is no operational definition for the words "individual", "person", things like that. everyone has their own interpretation so obviously everything becomes subjective without properly defining it.

on another note, in my playthroughs shepard always picks destroy (high ems obviously) and made geth and quarian peace earlier in the game back on rannoch. although shepard never blatantly told the catalyst:

"oh hey you know that whole thing you said about the created and their creators, well yup they are at peace now and helping each other have a nice day." -shuts door in starchild's face-

if shepard lives to see the next day, etc. etc. and/or the universe decides to make new synthetics again, which is inevitable by the catalyst's standards, then there is the opportunity for the catalyst to be proven wrong once more. the geth originally rebelled because the quarians wanted to destroy them. logical? yes, self-preservation is very logical and an ingrained belief in every species. even though many here believe that the geth and edi (the geth specifically) are unique in their own right, regardless, the geth are destroyed in that ending. so what now? if the quarians/any other ME species decides to rebuild the geth/other synthetics with the knowledge that they will have a drive to supersede their creators it would be best to just accept that fact and try to drive their actions along the desired path of partnership for mutual benefit.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Yeulia wrote...

this could go on for hours/days/years/etc.

I hope it does. This conversation is way more intersting than most threads around here.

I do agree with the rest of your post, although my Shepard usually takes it to the next level by choosing Control. After all, since he believes that synthetics are usually pretty okay, he's willing to trust the synthetic version of himself to look after the galaxy.

[Rommel49]

eddieoctane wrote...

Organics can be replaced (via cloning), There's nothing special about any of them...

..except for the unique experiences each one has had which shape the individual personality and contribute to the collective culture. Though I suppose you could do what Dhalsim did to Blanka in the Street Fighter movie (the one with van Damme) and effectively upload memories into an individual before they pop out of the cloning pods.

You're right, OP, nothing is that special at all. So I guess refusal is the best ending. Then whatever genocide is wrought on the galaxy, it on the hands of the next generation.

Pretty much. Although, it's worth pointing out that prior to the Reaper Code upgrade, an "individual" Geth like Legion could theoretically be destroyed/killed and I'd consider it questionable what and how much was actually lost, simply due to the Geth's nature. Legion does state that the destruction of a Geth's platform doesn't necessarily matter, as its constituent programs are simply uploaded and stored into another piece of hardware. Likewise, Legion states that there is no individual, that they're all Geth.

Taking the above into account, it's actually possible the Geth effectively "kill" themselves all the time, just by virtue of the fact they move their programs from one platform to another at will. It's a sticky philosophical question, in my book. The Geth don't achieve sapience unless enough of them are networked together, e.g. in Legion's case it took over a thousand programs, when those constituent programs that formed the gestalt of that intelligence are moved or shuffled about to another platform or added to a network, they simply add to the overall Geth intellect - Sure, the raw data (memories) may be retained, but what of the sapient entity that actually experienced them?

Ironically enough, as I've covered in the past, there's nothing that definitively shows that refusal results in the war against the Reapers being lost, that's just assumed though; we never actually see that the war was lost and the narrator doesn't mention the Reapers by name, an actual timeline of events, and we don't know when Liara's archive was placed or found, etc. so one could say that it may actually be the best ending, as it's so incredibly vague and we don't actually see a definitive result one way or the other.

Modifié par Rommel49, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[IllusiveManJr]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

People took Legion's "does this unit have a soul?" line a bit too literally.

I guess so.

[legion999]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Eain wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

We can also make new jews, I don't get the big deal. In fact I'm fairly convinced that since 1945 at least 6 million new jews were born. So I guess we can call it even and forget about the whole thing?

Every time someone compares killing the geth to the Holocaust, a puppy dies.
Please don't kill the cute little puppies.

But we can make more puppies so it's okay lol!

[Madosu]

Do you know that as of right now, it is impossible to create a true AI. And what ever AI we got, is created mostly by accident.

Now do you know how insaly hard it is to recreate accidents?

[shodiswe]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

same thing can be said for humans, albeit we are organic machines, we're not so special

Humans have their own personalities, and their own set of skills. 

Machines can only do what they were made to do.

Humans do what they are programed to do, they arn't very special either.
Personalities, are genetic programming and experences experiences= programming. Shooling = programming.

Emotions are a hormone driven reward system for performing basic maintenance and replicating.

I have yet to hear anything "unique" about humans or other organic life for that matter.

[M0keys]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

Except for the part where Legion turned all Geth into unique individuals with his heroic sacrifice.

[IllusiveManJr]

legion999 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Eain wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

We can also make new jews, I don't get the big deal. In fact I'm fairly convinced that since 1945 at least 6 million new jews were born. So I guess we can call it even and forget about the whole thing?

Every time someone compares killing the geth to the Holocaust, a puppy dies.
Please don't kill the cute little puppies.

But we can make more puppies so it's okay lol!

What if you're a cat person?

[Fredvdp]

Eelectrica wrote...

Exactly.
Since destroy didn't create a new dark age where all computers and machines cease to function, designs and software is all still there, stored on the manufactures servers somewhere.
Any factories that survived the war could start producing them, with safe guards in place.

The geth are software, so if the geth are destroyed, I doubt any other software is still intact.

Eain wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

We can also make new jews, I don't get the big deal. In fact I'm fairly convinced that since 1945 at least 6 million new jews were born. So I guess we can call it even and forget about the whole thing?

Geth aren't like organic life. Don't apply our morality to them.

"No two species are identical. All must be judged on their own merits. Treating every species like one's own is racist. Even benign anthropomorphism." -Legion

Modifié par Fredvdp, 09 septembre 2012 - 07:50 .

[MadCat221]

Organics can be replaced, there's nothing special about any of them. Why all the hub-bub over the Reaper harvest?

[LanceSolous13]

The Geth are a race like any other. They just so happen to be synthetic, but they operate just like any other species. That is exactly how you need to look at them.

"The Humans are replacable; There's nothing special about any of them."

[Gogzilla]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

A measure of a man
 
 

If you can't see why your original statement is false, then there is no point saying anything to you.

[Gogzilla]

MadCat221 wrote...

Organics can be replaced, there's nothing special about any of them. Why all the hub-bub over the Reaper harvest?

Catalyst logic right,

And people say the catalyst is idotic.

[MadCat221]

Gogzilla wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't see why people make a big deal over the Destroy ending wiping out synthetics. Any synthetic can be replaced, there's nothing unique about any of them.

A measure of a man
 
 

If you can't see why your original statement is false, then there is no point saying anything to you.

This here.  The most crippling form of blindness is when one will not see, and the persistent assertion that they're "just machines" is exactly that: refusal to understand.

Modifié par MadCat221, 09 septembre 2012 - 08:14 .

[Fredvdp]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

The Geth are a race like any other. They just so happen to be synthetic, but they operate just like any other species. That is exactly how you need to look at them.

"The Humans are replacable; There's nothing special about any of them."

Synthetics have creators. Organics don't. If an entire race of organics is destroyed, then they won't be recreated. Synthetics can be recreated to something very similar as they were before.

[Subject M]

Fredvdp wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

The Geth are a race like any other. They just so happen to be synthetic, but they operate just like any other species. That is exactly how you need to look at them.

"The Humans are replacable; There's nothing special about any of them."

Synthetics have creators. Organics don't. If an entire race of organics is destroyed, then they won't be recreated. Synthetics can be recreated to something very similar as they were before.

When it comes to "recreation" It goes both ways of course.

[Xellith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

same thing can be said for humans, albeit we are organic machines, we're not so special

Humans have their own personalities, and their own set of skills. 

Machines can only do what they were made to do.

Legion and Legion VI have different personalities, EDI also has her own personalitiy.

Legion was possibly a farming bot but now carries around a sniper rifle.   EDI was designed as a "cyber warfare suite" but now runs around in combat with you on the ground among other things like a relationship with joker.  Your argument is invalid.

Fredvdp wrote...
Synthetics have creators. Organics don't. If an entire race of organics is destroyed, then they won't be recreated. Synthetics can be recreated to something very similar as they were before.

If the rachni queen is anything to go by - humans and other organics can be re-created also.  Your argument is invalid.

Modifié par Xellith, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:45 .

[Fredvdp]

Xellith wrote...

If the rachni queen is anything to go by - humans and other organics can be re-created also.  Your argument is invalid.

It wasn't a real queen and it didn't function the same. Unlike the real queen, it did not have control.