23 réponses à ce sujet

[simonrana]

In my last playthrough as an infiltrator I had Cryo ammo fully levelled and specced to do more damage to armour, but for most of my playthrough I stuck to snipering the brutes and banshees. Towards the end I got rushed by one whilst I had my SMG (Tempest) out and discovered that it tore them apart!

I've had a quick google and this doesn't seem to be a tip anyone's mentioning. Are other ammo types even more deadly?! I find it hard to see how they could be - cryo on my Tempest made brutes and banshee encounters trivial!

(Note: This is on veteran difficulty not insanity).

[Abraham_uk]

Cryo ammo doesn't do much extra damage.

It freezes unprotected enemies.
Slows down enemies protected by shields/barriers (with exception to Primes, Atlases and Banshees).
It weakens armour.
It's very useful as a crowd control and debuffing.



Incendiary Ammo is great for actual armour damage, setting unprotected foes on fire. Doesn't do much agaisnt shields and barriers though.


Disruptor Ammo: Stuns most enemies, removes barriers and shields easily. Synthetics are vulnerable against disruptor ammo.


Warp ammo: Very high damage bonus. Weakens armour. Does additional damage to barriers and armour. Does additional damage to enemies lifted in the air.

Armour Piercing Ammo: Weakens armour, does lots of damage to armour and health and it penetrates light cover (such as riot shields).


There is no best ammo power.
But all ammo powers benefit a lot from a rapid fire weapon.


Also I recommend you try out inasnity. It's still quite easy, but it's not trival. It has it's hard moments. It has some moments of frustration. But overall inasnity isn't that tough for Mass Effect veterans and experienced shoot em up players. If you know how powers work and their combos, you're going to have a blast on insanity.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 05 septembre 2012 - 12:45 .

[simonrana]

Thanks for the tips, I'll give insanity a go on the next run.

Have you/anyone tried the cryo ammo on a brute or banshee though? I didn't expect it do well on them either since it's not really meant for that kind of enemy, which is why I was so surprised to see how effective it was. I could usually kill a brute before it even reached me with just the tempest and the occasional incinerate. It was even easier than I remember it being with my Vanguard, where it took quite a few charges and shotgun blasts (with incendiary ammo) to take down a brute.

[Abraham_uk]

Cryo works well once you remove the barrier on the banshee.

Just use a rapid fire weapon on the banshee. Remove the barrier then continue to shoot with cryo ammo for a while.

Then switch to a hard hitting weapon (preferably with incendiary/warp/armour piercing ammo). then finish the Banshee.

[capn233]

The armor weakening affect from Cryo isn't all that great. It is ok and will help SMGs a little bit, but AP or Warp ammo will end up out damaging it. Cryo Ammo weakening works as long as the target is "chilled," but that effect isn't particularly long or reliable on higher difficulties.

Cryo Ammo is more of a crowd control ammo power rather than direct damage. I usually level it to Squad and go for increased freeze chance. Frozen enemies take double damage essentially, so you can end up doing good damage to low and mid-tier enemies.

As far as all the ammo types go, I would say Incendiary Ammo is the best overall in this game, at least if it is leveled to Explosive Burst. If you get that you are doing an extra 105 damage every couple of shots or so. Disruptor I would rank second since it's CC has been improved since ME2 and you can set off Tech Bursts relatively easily.

As for the Brutes, they don't have all that much "armor health" anyway. If you stack a debuff or two from Warp or Proximity Mine on them they will die very quickly.

[simonrana]

But it WAS great! I'm starting to wonder if they maybe made a mistake in how it works and most people have just not noticed because it never made sense to try it. I'll try taking out a brute with incendiary ammo on a Tempest on the next playthrough to see how it compares, but I'd advise a current player to give the cryo a go - they may be pleasantly surprised!

[Nitrocuban]

Ammo powers are applied per bullet I think, so every fast firing gun is better at this than a slow firing one.
Especially the Prothean Particle Rifle with Incendiary Ammo is _very_ powerfull.

[godlike13]

Cryo ammo doesn't do more damage to armor, but weakens armor by up to 50%. Which amounts to ur gun doing more damage to armor. Its quite good. Usually though i give it to my squad, and have them freezing and weakening things for me while i use Incendiary Ammo.
Though for my Infiltrator i do use Cryo because Infiltrator don't have Incendiary Ammo.

Modifié par godlike13, 05 septembre 2012 - 06:28 .

[capn233]

They didn't. I just did a Cryo Soldier on Insanity. It works decent, but it isn't destroying armor faster than Incendiary, Warp or AP.

Weakening 50% means that on Insanity the penalty is only -25 per bullet reduction instead of 50. That is not bad for SMGs, but that does not compare to +105 damage nearly every other shot from Incendiary Explosive Burst.

Now stacking 25% Damage Taken from Proxi Mine and another 15% or so from Warp, which are multiplicative bonuses, starts to make a Brute die very quickly.

[Nitrocuban]

Speced for Team ammo and then spamming Concussive shot speced for +100% dmg on frozen targets should be kinda good, shouldn´t it?
Never tried it myself.

[capn233]

Nitrocuban wrote...

Speced for Team ammo and then spamming Concussive shot speced for +100% dmg on frozen targets should be kinda good, shouldn´t it?
Never tried it myself.

I suppose that is ok, but how I do it with squad cryo and CS is to get Amplification, and use CS to rapidly freeze unprotected targets.

One CS even with the damage boost doesn't shatter frozen enemies unless they have already taken damage since base CS damage is pretty poor.

This will be apples and oranges, but here is my Cryo Soldier vs some Brutes, then AR Vanguard.  Note that Proxi Mine is figuring into both of these fights, and Cryo has the advantage of 2 Mines (Shepard and Garrus) plus Warp debuff off Liara as well.  AR Vanguard is using Incendiary Ammo, and Ash has Inferno Grenades.

Cryo Soldier vs Brutes on Horizon

AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth I
AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth II
AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth III

[Abraham_uk]

capn233 wrote...

Nitrocuban wrote...

Speced for Team ammo and then spamming Concussive shot speced for +100% dmg on frozen targets should be kinda good, shouldn´t it?
Never tried it myself.

I suppose that is ok, but how I do it with squad cryo and CS is to get Amplification, and use CS to rapidly freeze unprotected targets.

One CS even with the damage boost doesn't shatter frozen enemies unless they have already taken damage since base CS damage is pretty poor.

This will be apples and oranges, but here is my Cryo Soldier vs some Brutes, then AR Vanguard.  Note that Proxi Mine is figuring into both of these fights, and Cryo has the advantage of 2 Mines (Shepard and Garrus) plus Warp debuff off Liara as well.  AR Vanguard is using Incendiary Ammo, and Ash has Inferno Grenades.

Cryo Soldier vs Brutes on Horizon

AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth I
AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth II
AR Vanguard vs Brutes on Earth III

I think the moral of the story is, Cerberus Harrier is awesome!

[capn233]

It's pretty good. One of the few AR's that feel like one.  But part of the story is that stacking debuffs is helpful.   Proxi Mine "Damage Taken" is a multiplicative bonus, so when CryoSoldier Shep and Garrus both hit a Brute, then Liara also hits it with Warp (with Expose) the damage skyrockets.  The same would be true if you use Sabotage with "Tech Vulnerability" and then hit it with Incinerate.

I actually prefer the Revenant on that Vanguard though. Mainly because of less reloads, and I don't really need all that much accuracy. If I was trying to "max out" the class, it would probably have the Punisher / Hurricane and Carnifex or Paladin though. But that character has to have an AR and a Pistol.

Modifié par capn233, 05 septembre 2012 - 10:32 .

[godlike13]

Ya, the Punisher is sick on a Vanguard. Its just tears through bosses like Brutes and Atlases. Honestly anything the Revenant can do the Punisher can probably do better. And at half the weight.

BTW if the OP has the Punisher. I highly recommend using it over the Tempest.

Modifié par godlike13, 05 septembre 2012 - 11:11 .

[capn233]

godlike13 wrote...

Ya, the Punisher is sick on a Vanguard. Its just tears through bosses like Brutes and Atlases. Honestly anything the Revenant can do the Punisher can probably do better. And at half the weight. 

Which is of course one of the main problems with the weapon balance in the game... the heavy guns aren't justified over many of the featherweights.

[simonrana]

Don't have it I'm afraid - I don't pay real money just for guns!

[All-a-Mort]

I quite like cryo on a squad mate with the Falcon (good AOE freezing effect is very useful when being rushed by husks or cannibals) or Javik with the PR (Mr Freeze style). But have been using Warp ammo a lot in my current run. Haven't actually tried warp ammo on the PR...wonder how well that might work for melting Banshees?

[Abraham_uk]

Prothean Particle Rifle + Warp ammo.


Well the rifle has a fast rate of fire which works against barriers.
The warp ammo is great at weakening and damaging armour.

So good combination.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 08 septembre 2012 - 09:10 .

[All-a-Mort]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Prothean Particle Rifle + Warp ammo.


Well the rifle has a fast rate of fire which works against barriers.
THe warp ammo is great at weakening and damaging armour.

So good combination.

Shall give it a go this evening when I look to complete my initial Infiltrator playthrough. Was surprised how effective Kaidan has been with warp ammo on the Harrier. I've actually found myself regretting killing him usually in ME runs.B But he's going to have to sit Earth out since I'm not running warp ammo as a bonus power and I only let Javik use the PR.

[Alien Number Six]

Try this with a Infiltrator. Set up Tactical Cloak with damage, recharge speed and bonus power in 4,5 and 6 respectively. Take Marksman as a bonus power and take accuracy, headshot damage and accuracy and firing rate in areas 4,5 and 6 respectively. Then set up Disruptor Ammo for damage, head shots and damage in areas 4,5 and 6. Apply Disruptor Ammo to the Cerburus Harrier with a piercing mod and a magazine upgrade then use Tactical Cloak and Marksman. Choose a target and aim for the head. The target will melt under the barrage. Good hunting!
 

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:10 .

[Ares Caesar]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Try this with a Infiltrator. Set up Tactical Cloak with damage, recharge speed and bonus power in 4,5 and 6 respectively. Take Marksman as a bonus power and take accuracy, headshot damage and accuracy and firing rate in areas 4,5 and 6 respectively. Then set up Disruptor Ammo for damage, head shots and damage in areas 4,5 and 6. Apply Disruptor Ammo to the Cerburus Harrier with a piercing mod and a magazine upgrade then use Tactical Cloak and Marksman. Choose a target and aim for the head. The target will melt under the barrage. Good hunting!
 

Even on Insanity thats overkill and a bit redundant.

1) I havent tried using Marksman on an Infiltrator BUT, you shouldnt need "bonus power" evo in Tactical Cloak as you should be able to simply use it and start shooting when breaking cloak. Unless of course Marksman doesnt work like Energy Drain, Incinerate, or Proximity Mine do(in that you can use all of them WITHOUT bonus power evo and still get Tactical Cloak damage bonus for ~2 seconds of shooting).

2) The Harrier in particular isnt really going to benefit a lot from Marksman+Tactical Cloak, simply because the Harrier will get all 20 shots off under the Tactical Cloak damage bonus anyway, and *IF* you can headshot an enemy with the Harrier from Tactical Cloak, no enemy with heads will survive anyway (in fact most enemies will die well before 20 shots). Even on Insanity the Harrier + Tactical Cloak will deal so much damage that only bosses and highly armored targets will survive more than one clip/cloak cycle.

3) Marksman eats up a bonus slot that is mostly better used by Energy Drain, Proximity Mine, or Warp Ammo. Energy Drain used to break Tactical Cloak will completely drain the shields off most every enemy in the game, and the 25% damage "debuff" from Proximity Mine will easily beat the extra few shots from Marksman. Even Warp Ammo specced for full single player damage evos will do more damage.

4) A few weapons I think make better use of Marksman+Tactical Cloak;
A)Talon = shotgun becomes a sniper that laughs at shield gate
B)Hurricane SMG = drastically increases accuracy. Use heatsink or clip mod + extended barrel
C)Bloodpack SMG = same as Hurricane - better option of the two.
D) Adas Anti Synthetic = Use Mag Ext + Barrel Ext., and use RoF upgrades to Marksman instead of accuracy.
E) Geth Plasma Shotty = Barrel+Clip. RoF upgrades to Marksman

Tempest, Revenant, Hornet, Scimitar, and Saber are also other decent options.

You "could" put the Magazine Extension on the Harrier, but the problem there is that the gun has such low ammo already that blasting through it even faster wont help, which is why I find having Warp Ammo, Energy Drain, or Proximity Mine bonus powers essentially help deal more damage for less ammo.

Geth Plasma Shotgun and Adas Anti Synthetic would be my personal choices for a Tactical Cloak+Marksman combo.

[Alien Number Six]

:alien:To each his own. Ares Caesar.

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 08 septembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[Alien Number Six]

:alien:I personally enjoy overkill.

Modifié par Alien Number Six, 08 septembre 2012 - 12:14 .

[Nitrocuban]

Back to CS and Cryo Ammo:
I would suggest to prime targets with weapon fire to apply the ammo effect and cause some damage then followed by CS.
So you get the +100% dmg to frozen targets and the chance to create a cry explosion with a little practice