626 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Low prices/sales are evil and mandatory online passes are justified because people talk badly about games.

Is that really the topic of discussion that Emaz has brought up here? I'm lost.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:18 .

[batlin]

Master Shiori wrote...

Hardly, if the result of having the naysayers' money is losing a dozen other customers because of naysayers campaign of badmouthing, then it's not worth it. In fact, it's a bigger loss than not having the naysayers in the first place.

And it makes sense for EA to do so. If you truly dislike someone or their product so much that you can't stop talking crap about it, then you really shouldn't have anything to do with them in the first place. 

Unless, you're in denial or a masochist..

Because as all good businesspeople know, the customer is only right if they're happy with your product.

Modifié par batlin, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:24 .

[BatmanPWNS]

If it's going to be as bad and forced as ME3 MP then I'm not even touching DA3.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
Hardly, if the result of having the naysayers' money is losing a dozen other customers because of naysayers campaign of badmouthing, then it's not worth it. In fact, it's a bigger loss than not having the naysayers in the first place.

Until EA and every other publisher figures out a perfect way to discern people's opinion of a game before they sepnd money on it, that's not going to ever happen.Thats bad word of mouth. You want to avoid that, then make a game that'll have more people singing its praises than wanting to bad mouth it.

Every game will have its vehement detractors, but it would be worthwhile for EA to examine why a game like DA2 harbored as much ill will as it did. That means trying to figure out why those people that were "naysayers" went on a "campaign of badmouthing." That didn't happen without a reason. Slapping on online passes and always online DRM or killing modding support certainly isn't going to be a solution to that bad word of mouth.

Master Shiori wrote...
And it makes sense for EA to do so. If you truly dislike someone or their product so much that you can't stop talking crap about it, then you really shouldn't have anything to do with them in the first place.

That's rubbish. For whatever reason, I doubt people that bought DA2 (or any game they might have ended up disliking after buying) wanted to have a bad game. But you're only going to know that after buying it and playing the thing. People absolutely have the right to voice their opinion about a game after they've bought and played it. Good or bad.

Modifié par Brockololly, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:32 .

[Emzamination]

jillabender wrote...

Emzamination wrote…

I for one am glad they've started implementing online passes as it shuts down the 'Bargain bin' talk. I'm also glad they took the mod tools people were using to bootleg dlc, forcing them to pay for it as it should be.I hope to see more micro transactions,Online passes,Orgin,Digital Dlc and restrictions implemented in games to come as it helps flush the unloyal away.

Are you suggesting that modders have used the toolset to recreate paid DLC campaigns, like Golems of Amgarrak for example, so that people could avoid paying for them? If so, do you have any evidence of that? Because I've never come across anything of the kind.

I suppose someone could use the toolset to create items with stats identical to DLC items, but there's no way I know of to get the unique models for items like the Blood Dragon Armour without acquiring those items through BioWare. There are mods available that change the appearance or stats of DLC items like the Blood Dragon Armour and King Cailan's Armour, but players can't use those mods unless they own the DLC.

People who use the toolset to create their own custom items, or who use it to alter DLC items (for example, by creating a mod that alters the appearance of the Blood Dragon Armour, or the stats of King Cailan's armour) aren't "bootlegging" or doing anything wrong – they're just using the toolset the way it was meant to be used. BioWare gave them the tools to create their own custom items, and to tweak in-game items, and they did.

You argued once before that giving players the ability to create their own custom items might make it harder for BioWare to make money from item pack DLC. If BioWare are truly concerned about that, it's their call. But I've never heard anyone from BioWare suggest that they're worried about player-created mods hurting DLC sales.

As I recall, BioWare have stated that they didn't release a toolset for DA2 partly because they don't own the rights to all of the tools that they used to create DA2. I've never heard anything from BioWare to suggest they didn't include a toolset because they were concerned about "bootlegging."

There are many, many kinds of mods out there – mods that add new companion characters or new quests, mods that fix bugs in dialogue or combat mechanics, and mods that add more cosmetic options for the character creator.

I don't intend any personal offense or insult toward you, and I certainly understand that BioWare isn't obligated to provide a toolset. But as someone who respects the time and effort that people in the modding community put into creating mods for other players to enjoy, I can't help but feel frustrated that you seem to be making baseless accusations against the modding community.

Jill I'm surprised, I never make Acusations unless I can back them up

Here is your proof of modders using the toolset to replicate Dlc items

Source

Source

Source

Source

[Emzamination]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
The pass is there to teach the gamers who hurt sales when they spammed bad reviews about da2 on metacritic, attacked EA stock and attempted to get ToR shut down by closing accounts a lesson in not biting the hand who feeds them their entertainment.It's also there to cork the loud mouths who frolicked across this forum disrespectfully boasting about how they were going to pay <10 for Da2 because that's all it was worth in their eyes.

I for one am glad they've started implementing online passes as it shuts down the 'Bargain bin' talk.I'm also glad they took the mod tools people were using to bootleg dlc, forcing them to pay for it as it should be.I hope to see more micro transactions,Online passes,Orgin,Digital Dlc and restrictions implemented in games to come as it helps flush the unloyal away.

I love when EA flexes its power and puts nay sayers in line

[spam image removed]

Tell me you're joking, right? EA "flexing its power" isn't going to put "naysayers in line" it'll drive naysayers away.  And a naysayer's money is as good as somebody who worships at the altar of EA.

No, it's quite the polar opposite actually.Lets say you own a restaurant and a customer who dines at your restaurant is not satisfied with the food quality or service.The customer has the right to give you a full critics review about their service dislikes and leave.What they do not have the right to do is sit in your establishment daily for a year+ and continuously yell how horrible your service is to anyone who walks in the door, driving away potential customers and revenue out of some zealous sense of public duty.

Tell me, would the customers money not start to depreciate in value to the point where you just want them to take their reimbursement and go? Is that customer acting in a respectable and civilized manner?

[syllogi]

Emzamination wrote...

jillabender wrote...

Emzamination wrote…

I for one am glad they've started implementing online passes as it shuts down the 'Bargain bin' talk. I'm also glad they took the mod tools people were using to bootleg dlc, forcing them to pay for it as it should be.I hope to see more micro transactions,Online passes,Orgin,Digital Dlc and restrictions implemented in games to come as it helps flush the unloyal away.

Are you suggesting that modders have used the toolset to recreate paid DLC campaigns, like Golems of Amgarrak for example, so that people could avoid paying for them? If so, do you have any evidence of that? Because I've never come across anything of the kind.

I suppose someone could use the toolset to create items with stats identical to DLC items, but there's no way I know of to get the unique models for items like the Blood Dragon Armour without acquiring those items through BioWare. There are mods available that change the appearance or stats of DLC items like the Blood Dragon Armour and King Cailan's Armour, but players can't use those mods unless they own the DLC.

People who use the toolset to create their own custom items, or who use it to alter DLC items (for example, by creating a mod that alters the appearance of the Blood Dragon Armour, or the stats of King Cailan's armour) aren't "bootlegging" or doing anything wrong – they're just using the toolset the way it was meant to be used. BioWare gave them the tools to create their own custom items, and to tweak in-game items, and they did.

You argued once before that giving players the ability to create their own custom items might make it harder for BioWare to make money from item pack DLC. If BioWare are truly concerned about that, it's their call. But I've never heard anyone from BioWare suggest that they're worried about player-created mods hurting DLC sales.

As I recall, BioWare have stated that they didn't release a toolset for DA2 partly because they don't own the rights to all of the tools that they used to create DA2. I've never heard anything from BioWare to suggest they didn't include a toolset because they were concerned about "bootlegging."

There are many, many kinds of mods out there – mods that add new companion characters or new quests, mods that fix bugs in dialogue or combat mechanics, and mods that add more cosmetic options for the character creator.

I don't intend any personal offense or insult toward you, and I certainly understand that BioWare isn't obligated to provide a toolset. But as someone who respects the time and effort that people in the modding community put into creating mods for other players to enjoy, I can't help but feel frustrated that you seem to be making baseless accusations against the modding community.

Jill I'm surprised, I never make Acusations unless I can back them up

Here is your proof of modders using the toolset to replicate Dlc items

Source

Source

Source

Source

The King Cailan armor is not technically using the toolset to replicate DLC exclusive items, because the armor model and texture was already in the game as Orlesian plate.  All the modder did was recolor it gold and gave it new stats.  There are no rules against recoloring/retexturing existing ingame items.  Even without the toolset, plenty of people do this for DA2, and I don't think Bioware objects.

As for the Blood Dragon Armor and Warden's Keep armor, are you actually sure that those mods can be used without the original files?  I can't test it at the moment, but I know that DLC specific mods I've seen in the past are not able to be used without owning the DLC.  

Saying that the toolset should be eliminated just because it can be misused is a terrible argument anyway, because it's assuming the worst about the community.  The majority of modders are passionate, creative, and loyal fans, and they don't deserve to be accused of theft simply because they want to use their skills and creativity to increase the enjoyment of a game.  If you see mods that are definitely taking resources from DLC (without making the mod DLC dependent), you can always contact the mod site owners, and the file will usually be taken down pretty quickly.  If they don't, you can send an email to EA about the infringement.  Penalizing all modders for the misdeeds of a few is not the answer, and it's pretty insulting of you to claim so.

[bEVEsthda]

Emzamination wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
The pass is there to teach the gamers who hurt sales when they spammed bad reviews about da2 on metacritic, attacked EA stock and attempted to get ToR shut down by closing accounts a lesson in not biting the hand who feeds them their entertainment.It's also there to cork the loud mouths who frolicked across this forum disrespectfully boasting about how they were going to pay <10 for Da2 because that's all it was worth in their eyes.

I for one am glad they've started implementing online passes as it shuts down the 'Bargain bin' talk.I'm also glad they took the mod tools people were using to bootleg dlc, forcing them to pay for it as it should be.I hope to see more micro transactions,Online passes,Orgin,Digital Dlc and restrictions implemented in games to come as it helps flush the unloyal away.

I love when EA flexes its power and puts nay sayers in line

[spam image removed]

Tell me you're joking, right? EA "flexing its power" isn't going to put "naysayers in line" it'll drive naysayers away.  And a naysayer's money is as good as somebody who worships at the altar of EA.

No, it's quite the polar opposite actually.Lets say you own a restaurant and a customer who dines at your restaurant is not satisfied with the food quality or service.The customer has the right to give you a full critics review about their service dislikes and leave.What they do not have the right to do is sit in your establishment daily for a year+ and continuously yell how horrible your service is to anyone who walks in the door, driving away potential customers and revenue out of some zealous sense of public duty.

Tell me, would the customers money not start to depreciate in value to the point where you just want them to take their reimbursement and go? Is that customer acting in a respectable and civilized manner?

There's always big problems with constructed analogies. I find it a worthwhile observation to do, on human intellect, that so many try to *prove* things by constructing an analogy.

It is what it is. Not what you make it up to be, a restaurant or whatever. (And the restaurant analogy would be more accurate if you compress time: The last serving was the bad meal, and the guest haven't left yet, because the customer doesn't think he's finished with this matter yet.
Play this game and you'll always be in trouble.)

A company that tries to behave as you suggest, for the reasons you suggest, will die very soon. There is absolutely no tolerance at all among consumers for that sort of behavior.

But I do support both DRM and publishers getting a cut on resale of used games.. For different reasons than you though.

[Emzamination]

FedericoV wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The pass is there to teach the gamers who hurt sales when they spammed bad reviews about da2 on metacritic, attacked EA stock and attempted to get ToR shut down by closing accounts a lesson in not biting the hand who feeds them their entertainment.It's also there to cork the loud mouths who frolicked across this forum disrespectfully boasting about how they were going to pay <10 for Da2 because that's all it was worth in their eyes.

I for one am glad they've started implementing online passes as it shuts down the 'Bargain bin' talk.I'm also glad they took the mod tools people were using to bootleg dlc, forcing them to pay for it as it should be.I hope to see more micro transactions,Online passes,Orgin,Digital Dlc and restrictions implemented in games to come as it helps flush the unloyal away.

I love when EA flexes its power and puts nay sayers in line

Hilarious. That was a great piece of art (if ME3 is art, your post is art, 'right?). I can understand a company that tries to squeeze money from their customers. I don't like it, but even a child can understand it off course. But gamers who supports those restrictive and ultra-consumistic policies and actually defend them? That's incredible. I will never get it. Maybe I'm just an intollerant **** but I will never get it. It hurts my brain like the "button & awesome" video.

Every thing EA does is well justified, I assure you.

Micro transactions - The me3 mp packs for example are completely optional and not required to get the best items in game or anything else the pack has to offer, despite that old fish wives tale that it drives up the luck percentage.

User A:  I just bought like 4000 points in Item packs so I could get a Black widow, Ea is full of parasites sucking their blood money from my veins.

User B: Well why did you choose to buy the packs then? You could've just grinded for credits and saved up for the gun.

User A: I didn't feel like grinding, takes too long.It's Ea's fault it takes so long to grind, they should've made everything one shot kills with 9999 credits a kill and 5 minute matches.

User B: Why 5 minute matches?

User A: Because I don't want to devote 20 minutes of my life each match to this crap game.That's 20 minutes of my life Ea Is stealing that I'll never get back, will the micro transactions never end??

User B: *Face palm*


Origin Drm - I direct you to this official Bioware AMAA on reddit involving community queen jessica merizan, fernando and sheriff priestly.Use Ctrl-F to find the name 'jayearls' (might have to load the comments a few times as they don't all show at once) and you will see all the justification Ea needs for Origin.

Online passes - Do you not agree that Ea deserves some form of royalties anytime one of its products is sold? If not for personal gain than to recompensate for the cost of production and distribution.

Modifié par Emzamination, 07 septembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[CitizenThom]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

DLC prices seem to stay more rigid... which is kind of strange given that the profit happens the same way as hardcopies, but with less hard goods to produce. Does XBL/Origin/PSN charge a fee to publishers for distributing DLC that is responsible for the DLC prices staying stuck?

Sony and Microsoft do charge quite a large fee I think if use their service to distribute DLC. Don't think applies to Origin though since EA owns that.

Hmmm... seems to destroy the business model then I imagine. The advantage of DLC is not having the cost of 'printing' discs, covers and containers. If Sony  and Microsoft are charging $$$ for publishers to make DLC available...the business model of DLC isn't much improved over hard copies.

My question does still remains though, why are DLC prices more persistent than hard copy prices? Both have initial costs to overcome, that are eventually paid by initial sales, both have a base cost and base profit per unit... so shouldn't DLC prices start to shrink in order to sell a few more copies after the intial sales start to slow down? Games go from $59.99 to $19.99 after a year or two, DLC on the other hand tends to stay at it's first offering price indefinately.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 08 septembre 2012 - 01:13 .

[Korusus]

Emzamination wrote...

Every thing EA does is well justified, I assure you.

You do realize that EA will kill-off BioWare the second they no longer turn a big enough profit, that that day will be sooner rather than later due to BioWare's recent trend of bad decisions across the board at all three studios, and that EA doesn't care about you or your loyalty.

[Jerrybnsn]

Would I get to play my Warden in multiplayer?

[Fredward]

BrotherWarth wrote...

No. The online passes exist only to get money from people who buy the game used. No other industry gets to profit multiple times from a single unit. The film industry doesn't get to keep a used movie from playing unless you pay a fee. Same for the music industry, same with books, etc. Why should video games be a special exception?

Yah know what I just realized? I've been reading your username wrong all this time. I totally thought it was BrotherWRath. Not WaRth. Wrath just seems to much more fitting.

[Emzamination]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

No, it's quite the polar opposite actually.Lets say you own a restaurant and a customer who dines at your restaurant is not satisfied with the food quality or service.The customer has the right to give you a full critics review about their service dislikes and leave.What they do not have the right to do is sit in your establishment daily for a year+ and continuously yell how horrible your service is to anyone who walks in the door, driving away potential customers and revenue out of some zealous sense of public duty.

Tell me, would the customers money not start to depreciate in value to the point where you just want them to take their reimbursement and go? Is that customer acting in a respectable and civilized manner?

Oh, for ther love of...

That would only make sense if the restaurant set up an area off to the side of the establishment specifically for people to voice their opinions for all to hear.
Bioware set up this forum for people to discuss their games. It's not a place for you and the other Kool-Aid drinkers to have a circle-jerk. You need to grow up.

Wrong, this forum is set up for people who like bioware games to discuss them and contribute feedback postive or negative in a constructive manner so the team can make improvements as necessary.It is not set up so people can badmouth the company who flips the bill for server bandwidth's business practices in their own house.I should hope we don't have to get into a discussion about what defines feedback.

[Renmiri1]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

No. The online passes exist only to get money from people who buy the game used. No other industry gets to profit multiple times from a single unit. The film industry doesn't get to keep a used movie from playing unless you pay a fee. Same for the music industry, same with books, etc. Why should video games be a special exception?

Yah know what I just realized? I've been reading your username wrong all this time. I totally thought it was BrotherWRath. Not WaRth. Wrath just seems to much more fitting.

Tehehe, me too! 

Wrath is what I see on Brother's posts. Which he has the right to feel, but he also has to have the maturity to know pure rage accomplishes nothing. Just more rage 

[Jerrybnsn]

If I get to play my Warden in MP then that'll be the best reason to play DA3.