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Can we get a BioWare person to explian wtf is going on?


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#351
Guest_BrotherWarth_*

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DuckSoup wrote...

Because... they are expanding their market... therefore appealing to more buyers... therefore selling more copies... therefore generating more profit. 

There will be people who maybe didn't think much of the previous Dragon Age games but feel that maybe they'll try the MP version (like I did with ME.3) because their friends are. People may then really enjoy it and go on to buy the previous Dragon Age games so that they can go through the whole story (like I did with ME.3). 

 - New customers = More money.

Most "loyal" fans (and I use that term very, very losely based on the some of the people on this website) will still buy the game because they enjoyed the previous two games and - for all their concerns about MP - will try it out anyway (like a lot did with ME.3) and find that actually it's not quite as awful as they imagined. 

- Loyal customers = More money. 

Simple. 


But most of their attempts have failed because they're not doing anything new or exciting, just copying what other companies are already doing. Look at ToR and Battlefield for examples. Nothing new or exciting being done with those franchises, just doing what the bigger names are doing but with a different name.
EA is in a lose-lose situation with their "everything must have MP/be social!" mandate because you can't force MP into every game and expect it to make the game better, and you can't expect people to give a crap about social media integration. Other publishers are taking a more case-by-case approach and seeing more financial success.

#352
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Emzamination wrote...

What in the makers name do these posters have to do with our argument warth? Stop trying to redirect attention from your ignorant statements.Don't make statements you can't man up to and own.

but do be so kind as to link me to these half a dozen post


I'm still not entirely sure if you're trolling or not.

#353
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BrotherWarth wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...

Because... they are expanding their market... therefore appealing to more buyers... therefore selling more copies... therefore generating more profit. 

There will be people who maybe didn't think much of the previous Dragon Age games but feel that maybe they'll try the MP version (like I did with ME.3) because their friends are. People may then really enjoy it and go on to buy the previous Dragon Age games so that they can go through the whole story (like I did with ME.3). 

 - New customers = More money.

Most "loyal" fans (and I use that term very, very losely based on the some of the people on this website) will still buy the game because they enjoyed the previous two games and - for all their concerns about MP - will try it out anyway (like a lot did with ME.3) and find that actually it's not quite as awful as they imagined. 

- Loyal customers = More money. 

Simple. 


But most of their attempts have failed because they're not doing anything new or exciting, just copying what other companies are already doing. Look at ToR and Battlefield for examples. Nothing new or exciting being done with those franchises, just doing what the bigger names are doing but with a different name.
EA is in a lose-lose situation with their "everything must have MP/be social!" mandate because you can't force MP into every game and expect it to make the game better, and you can't expect people to give a crap about social media integration. Other publishers are taking a more case-by-case approach and seeing more financial success.


But people do care about social networking. People do want to play games with their friends. Bioware tried to do something different with ME.3 and got a big load of sh*t for it, anyway. 

Tell me, though, how will any of this impact on your life? Do you work for EA? Is it putting the bread and butter on your table? Because honestly I can't see how it matters. 

#354
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C9316 wrote...

Melrache wrote...

It be Friday, loosen up a lil folks!

Posted Image


Posting again for great justice! Posted Image


Ugh for god sake.

#355
Lord_Valandil

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DuckSoup wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Oh and DA3 will have multiplayer because EA does not make standalone single player games anymore.


Yeah, it's a pretty smart business model. Y'know. For a business. 


Why?

(Oh, I do understand that EA expects certain things from this, but that hardly makes those expected things inevitable.)


Because... they are expanding their market... therefore appealing to more buyers... therefore selling more copies... therefore generating more profit. 

There will be people who maybe didn't think much of the previous Dragon Age games but feel that maybe they'll try the MP version (like I did with ME.3) because their friends are. People may then really enjoy it and go on to buy the previous Dragon Age games so that they can go through the whole story (like I did with ME.3). 

 - New customers = More money.

Most "loyal" fans (and I use that term very, very losely based on the some of the people on this website) will still buy the game because they enjoyed the previous two games and - for all their concerns about MP - will try it out anyway (like a lot did with ME.3) and find that actually it's not quite as awful as they imagined. 

- Loyal customers = More money. 

Simple. 


While I get your point, I don't entirely agree.
There are endless possibilities, the worst one being that the MP results in something awful, maybe even more than what we have in mind. I respect those who like the MP in ME3 (but it bored me to tears, and I tried it with an open mind, having zero expectations, i gave it the chance to surprise me).
The downside of trying to appeal to more people is that they may end up alienating their "loyal" or "core" fans, adding elements which feel forced and don't add anything to the experience they loved in the first place.
Say...like Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts. It was a new game with the characters we know and love, but the game was so different that it turned off most of the previous fans and failed to live up to expectations. Sure, Rare may have obtained some new fans who wish to see more games like "Nuts and Bolts", but at the expense of the fans who made the franchise succesful in the first place.
I didn't like DA2...at all, so maybe I'm a bit biased and it looks like I'm Mr. Negative.
I'll try to give them the benefit of the doubt, nevertheless ;)

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:03 .


#356
Guest_DuckSoup_*

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Lord_Valandil wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

DuckSoup wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Oh and DA3 will have multiplayer because EA does not make standalone single player games anymore.


Yeah, it's a pretty smart business model. Y'know. For a business. 


Why?

(Oh, I do understand that EA expects certain things from this, but that hardly makes those expected things inevitable.)


Because... they are expanding their market... therefore appealing to more buyers... therefore selling more copies... therefore generating more profit. 

There will be people who maybe didn't think much of the previous Dragon Age games but feel that maybe they'll try the MP version (like I did with ME.3) because their friends are. People may then really enjoy it and go on to buy the previous Dragon Age games so that they can go through the whole story (like I did with ME.3). 

 - New customers = More money.

Most "loyal" fans (and I use that term very, very losely based on the some of the people on this website) will still buy the game because they enjoyed the previous two games and - for all their concerns about MP - will try it out anyway (like a lot did with ME.3) and find that actually it's not quite as awful as they imagined. 

- Loyal customers = More money. 

Simple. 


While I get your point, I don't entirely agree.
There are endless possibilities, the worst one being that the MP results in something awful, maybe even more than what we have in mind. I respect those who like the MP in ME3 (but it bored me to tears, and I tried it with an open mind, having zero expectations, i gave it the chance to surprise me).
The downside of trying to appeal to more people is that they may end up alienating their "loyal" or "core" fans, adding elements which feel forced and don't add anything to the experience they loved in the first place.
Say...like Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts. It was a new game with the characters we know and love, but the game was so different that it turned off most of the previous fans and failed to live up to expectations. Sure, Rare may have obtained some new fans who wish to see more games like "Nuts and Bolts", but at the expense of the fans who made the franchise succesful in the first place.
I didn't like DA2...at all, so maybe I'm a bit biased and it looks like I'm Mr. Negative.
I'll try to give them the benefit of the doubt, nevertheless ;)


I see what you're saying too, but the loyal fans who aren't interested in the MP aspect don't have to play it. 

There isn't really a problem. 

#357
Emzamination

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BrotherWarth wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

What in the makers name do these posters have to do with our argument warth? Stop trying to redirect attention from your ignorant statements.Don't make statements you can't man up to and own.

but do be so kind as to link me to these half a dozen post


I'm still not entirely sure if you're trolling or not.


That all? Sodding pathetic

#358
billy the squid

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The impotent rage is funny as hell. You guys do realise that Baulder's gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights both had MP? Whether it turns out well like the above or a load of rubbish is another matter entirely. Or are people just fundamentally opposed to the very concept of MP despite this?

#359
batlin

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Modifié par batlin, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:15 .


#360
Fisto The Sexbot

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Lord_Valandil wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

So, Ema is serious afterall?

#double facepalm#


I know it's hard to believe, but...yes.


Emza is obviously a troll.... well, at least he's consistent. But it takes more to make a good troll than just being consistent. 4/10 Emza, I've seen better.

#361
deuce985

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David Gaider wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Like I said though, this is based on what I know of the topic. Perhaps Mike Laidlaw, Mark Darrah, and all of you other guys and gals at Bioware talked about more then we the fans have seen.


Mike and Mark will talk about this-- and everything else-- when they've something to show. So while I know you'd like clarification, none is going to come at present. That shouldn't stop you from expressing an opinion, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions about it is all.

And I think I've contributed about all I can to the topic without just prompting people to ask more questions I can't answer. So I'll withdraw. Like I said previously, feedback (keeping in mind that it's based on very little at present) is always welcome.


Why do you tease me so David? You're playing with my emotions!

Posted Image

#362
Ianamus

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DuckSoup wrote...

I see what you're saying too, but the loyal fans who aren't interested in the MP aspect don't have to play it. 

There isn't really a problem. 


It is a problem if it's like Mass Effect 3. I didn't find the multipkayer that fun, but I felt like I had to play to play it enough to get 100% galactic readiness or I would get a bad ending (This was before I knew how many points were actually needed for specific endings). 

I don't have a problem with a single-player that is entirely optional, but Mass Effect 3's gave the impression that you needed to play it (and quite a lot of it as well) to succeed. 

#363
Volus Warlord

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LEAKED IMAGERY FROM DA3's MULTIPLAYER!!!

Posted Image

^^ This is about the quality we expect from it.

Modifié par Volus Warlord, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:35 .


#364
Emzamination

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Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Emza is obviously a troll.... well, at least he's consistent. But it takes more to make a good troll than just being consistent. 4/10 Emza, I've seen better.


:o are you the same fisto who made this post accusing Dg of only listening to his Bsn friend list? The same fisto who then got laughed at by DG himself? Dude, you're aura of awesome is overwhelming me :happy:

#365
King Cousland

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batlin wrote...




I agree. 

#366
bEVEsthda

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Lord_Valandil wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Nevertheless - yes. MP for DA3. Everything is going according to the prophecy. 


Hopefully the prophecy will end with fire, blood and the demise of the franchise.
Unless it somehow finds the path to redemption. Then I'll believe in miracles.


I have for a while considered posting a thread about overdoing negativeness, and the masochistic impulses and the lingering bitterness that might drive us to do that.

Here's the danger and the point: We risk creating an environment where DA3 never gets a fair chance.
I for one, think we should try to avoid that.


I agree in part.
I hope no one takes my posts as some kind of 'drama-llama', sometimes I tend to exaggerate a bit on purpose (I get a laugh out of my own posts). I don't wish any bad luck to the devs, I respect them. Even if I don't agree with their choices and the road they're following, maybe some people will like the game, and that's great.
Maybe I'm still a little bitter, because I loved Origins, and I hoped for something different than the current direction the franchise is taking. That, and the half baked DLC they have released for the DA games (which weren't cheap) and their lying marketing campaign (like Witch Hunt, which was supposed to answer all of your questions and give closure, yeaaahh right...it was a glorified DA2 advertisement).
I'm not still here to annoy people or to troll, if I like what I see when they show previews of DA3, then I'll get more positive, that's for sure.


Well, I like to think of myself as one of the most vitriolic DA2 critics who have managed to escape permaban. And I'm certainly bitter. Very bitter. I see nothing wrong in bashing DA2, or the silly ideas and logic which resulted in the "new direction".

But one would also have to think that Bioware can't be as thick as they sometimes appear to be (or are forced to pretend to be, since they can't bash themselves or their bosses). Ultimately this is a business. And they have to be aware of that DA2 failed bigtime, that the sales were just driven by DA:O's popularity. There should be reasons to believe that Bioware can be able to avoid repeating past mistakes.

It doesn't look good. I agree on that. We tell them we don't want VA. They tell us we will get it and that it's off the table. We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs. They tell us we will get them. We tell them we don't want MP. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want autodialogue. They tell us we will get it. They tell us it will be a mix of the best parts of DA:O and DA2. We ask what "best parts of DA:O" will be included. They only give us silence. We go "- What best parts of DA2!?". They point to all the things we don't want.

But Bioware must be aware of all these things. There's reason to expect that they have a plan. That they think they can execute things so much better this time, that most of the disastrous features are acceptable. Remember - MP was pretty neat in BG. It allowed you to create more custom characters for the single-player game.

There's also this: If I didn't love Skyrim so terribly much, I wouldn't find it difficult to pick on features I hate or think are rubbish. It's the emergent narrative, the customized char, the freedom, experiencing a story from your own character's perspective that's important. The key is if the game as whole works for you. Not the individual features. But we must be in the right mood to be perceptive for that. What happens if you're set in the mood to look for features or details that you'll hate?

While we're waiting for DA3,  until we know differently, it seems only fair to assume that the game will be interesting. And to assume that Bioware have a plan, that they're not stupid enough to just repeat DA2.

But by all means, go on bashing DA2. I probably will, whenever there's a reason.

#367
Fisto The Sexbot

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Emzamination wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Emza is obviously a troll.... well, at least he's consistent. But it takes more to make a good troll than just being consistent. 4/10 Emza, I've seen better.


:o are you the same fisto who made this post accusing Dg of only listening to his Bsn friend list? The same fisto who then got laughed at by DG himself? Dude, you're aura of awesome is overwhelming me :happy:


You should take some cues from Upsettingshorts; he was pretty believable right up until he exposed himself -- rather ineptly, I might add. :kissing:

It looks like BioWare is just having trouble keeping the honest fans these days...

#368
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DuckSoup wrote...

But people do care about social networking. People do want to play games with their friends. Bioware tried to do something different with ME.3 and got a big load of sh*t for it, anyway. 

Tell me, though, how will any of this impact on your life? Do you work for EA? Is it putting the bread and butter on your table? Because honestly I can't see how it matters. 


First off, you're conflating social media/network integration with multiplayer. They're not the same.
Second, if it's all so irrelevant then why are you posting about it?

#369
Emzamination

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Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Emza is obviously a troll.... well, at least he's consistent. But it takes more to make a good troll than just being consistent. 4/10 Emza, I've seen better.


:o are you the same fisto who made this post accusing Dg of only listening to his Bsn friend list? The same fisto who then got laughed at by DG himself? Dude, you're aura of awesome is overwhelming me :happy:


You should take some cues from Upsettingshorts; he was pretty believable right up until he exposed himself -- rather ineptly, I might add. :kissing:

It looks like BioWare is just having trouble keeping the honest fans these days...




There is certainly no lack of 12 year old friends forever.

Anyways nothing happening in this thread anymore and with that, I take my leave

#370
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Emzamination wrote...

Anyways nothing happening in this thread anymore and with that, I take my leave


Well, you intentionally avoided actual discussion. You completely ignored my point about online passes and such being used to punish people who buy games used and how no other entertainment industry does that or could get away with doing it.
Hence why everyone thinks you're a troll. You make inflammatory comments and refuse to defend them against legitimate scrutiny.

#371
Emzamination

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BrotherWarth wrote...


Well, you intentionally avoided actual discussion.


Root of Discussion.IIrc you suddenly stopped replying and started calling me a troll to avoid continuing.

You completely ignored my point about online passes and such being used
to punish people who buy games used and how no other entertainment
industry does that or could get away with doing it  


If you really wanted to argue about company online passes, you would've said something when I bypassed it but you didn't, instead you went on to arguing about something else, let it go.

Hence why everyone thinks you're a troll


First it was the mysterious half a dozen users, now it's everyone? There are two users throughout this entire thread calling me a troll and that's you and fisto, both of which have been accused of trolling by other users in turn.Give it up, there is no shadow horde at your flank.

Source

Source

You make inflammatory comments and refuse to defend them against legitimate scrutiny


lol really? please be so kind as to show me where I made inflammatory comments towards you or anyone for that matter.Here I'll even link you to the beginning of our dialogue.You certainly made some towards me however.

Legitimate scrutiny? since when did claiming not to know if I'm trolling or not classify under legitimate scrutiny?

Stop trying to paint yourself the scorned Damsel warth, it's not fitting you -_-

Modifié par Emzamination, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:02 .


#372
Mr Fixit

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BrotherWarth wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Anyways nothing happening in this thread anymore and with that, I take my leave


Well, you intentionally avoided actual discussion. You completely ignored my point about online passes and such being used to punish people who buy games used and how no other entertainment industry does that or could get away with doing it.
Hence why everyone thinks you're a troll. You make inflammatory comments and refuse to defend them against legitimate scrutiny.


Don't pay attention to that little powerpuff girl. Or should I say Mojo Jojo, since that seems to be her self-appointed role around these here parts. With a whiff of that edgy angst to spice things up.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .


#373
jillabender

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Emzamination wrote…

Syllogi wrote…

The King Cailan armor is not technically using the toolset to replicate DLC exclusive items, because the armor model and texture was already in the game as Orlesian plate.  All the modder did was recolor it gold and gave it new stats.  There are no rules against recoloring/retexturing existing ingame items.  Even without the toolset, plenty of people do this for DA2, and I don't think Bioware objects.

As for the Blood Dragon Armor and Warden's Keep armor, are you actually sure that those mods can be used without the original files?  I can't test it at the moment, but I know that DLC specific mods I've seen in the past are not able to be used without owning the DLC.  

Saying that the toolset should be eliminated just because it can be misused is a terrible argument anyway, because it's assuming the worst about the community.  The majority of modders are passionate, creative, and loyal fans, and they don't deserve to be accused of theft simply because they want to use their skills and creativity to increase the enjoyment of a game.  If you see mods that are definitely taking resources from DLC (without making the mod DLC dependent), you can always contact the mod site owners, and the file will usually be taken down pretty quickly.  If they don't, you can send an email to EA about the infringement.  Penalizing all modders for the misdeeds of a few is not the answer, and it's pretty insulting of you to claim so.


I'm sorry syllogi, I didn't see your post.I appologize if I offended you or any other modder using the toolset for your own enjoyment, this certainly wasn't my intention.


Thank you – I appreciate that. :)

#374
BioFan (Official)

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DuckSoup wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Melrache wrote...

It be Friday, loosen up a lil folks!

Posted Image


Posting again for great justice! Posted Image


Ugh for god sake.




I'd go str8 for that. :whistle:

#375
linksow

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Seriously? I don't see the problem with multiplayer, just to begin with I'm pretty sure it won't be required to play. We've always had our companions, we could control them, but they could act for themselves, so, if another one takes command, what' the real problem?

I have only one thing to say: do what you feel best Bioware.