626 réponses à ce sujet

[astreqwerty]

wow really??? MP in dragon age 3??? wont be buying..not because i have anything against MP rather that history has shown that when MP is involved with games based on a SP experiance SP gets royally screwed..no more blatant **** on my face bioware

[tishyw]

BrotherWarth wrote...

astreqwerty wrote...

wow really??? MP in dragon age 3??? wont be buying..not because i have anything against MP rather that history has shown that when MP is involved with games based on a SP experiance SP gets royally screwed..no more blatant **** on my face bioware

Has history shown that? Certainly Bioware's history hasn't. And I don't think gaming history in general has.

In ME3 SP only players couldn't get the best possible ending (there weren't enough points in the game for it).
Can one game be considered a history?  I'm not sure but they it does set a precedent

[Rylor Tormtor]

BrotherWarth wrote...

astreqwerty wrote...

wow really??? MP in dragon age 3??? wont be buying..not because i have anything against MP rather that history has shown that when MP is involved with games based on a SP experiance SP gets royally screwed..no more blatant **** on my face bioware

Has history shown that? Certainly Bioware's history hasn't. And I don't think gaming history in general has.

Everyone else can speak to their problems with ME3 multiplayer (I didn't buy it, because I disagreed with the design decisions made, which is fine, but it was the first Bioware game that wasn't prepurchased months in advance of its release for me). 

I see NWN spouted to defend this. Look, the original NWN was a toolkit, it was designed for making Single and Multiplayer adventures. The original campaign was almost universally reviled (I know, I was there, I defended it, a bit half heartedly because who didn't have a crush on Aribeth? Am I right?). Anyways, the single player experience as generated by Bioware was not the central goal of that product. Now, when SoU and HotU came out, the quality and experience of the single player experience right out of the box was leaps and bounds above the original. So, NWN did indeed have mulitplayer capabilities. The out of the box single player experience when it was first released was not of a particularly high quality (although higher than DA2 in my opinion). 

Resources and Zots are limited. Unless more resources are added, multiplayer development will ALWAYS reduce time/money/effort in developing single player experience. You can't have to two teams working in isolation and then a day before release plug the code together. In addition, anything that involves competitive play with have effects AFTER the fact in the single player game, and vice-a-versa. Co-op seems to be the best of both worlds for people, and that's fine (I have no interest in it), but what if we have a situation where they develope a specific Co-op campaign alongside the single player, projects run long like they always do, and then they are forced to rush a product out the door with a half-done single player and co-op campaign?

[TopcatPlayer]

If multiplayer is implimented to Dragon Age 3 in a way where i am not hindered by it if i dont use it, and if my friend can leave like a drop in drop out style, and it's all cooperative play like Mass Effect 3 (which i loved the fact that that was) but has no bearing towards points gathered for an endgame result (which will render games like Mass Effect 3 near unplayable when the servers are no longer supported). If these approximate criteria are met (i have no idea what form the multiplayer aspect could take, whether seperate or intergrated into the single player) then i will consider buying it.

Thing is, i love Dragon Age. Origins introduced me to this amazing world of Thedas, its cultures, its varying points of views and traditions and rich RICH history. Your world that youve created draws me in more than any other becaus i felt that i was helping mold it. I understand theres certain things you have to do for certain bosses, but know that we really want to hear and partake in your story and in its telling. I'm just concerned how this can be achieved with more than one protagonist. Easily in a story path that's being guided by one player (like Heavy Rain), but 2 players? I guess i worry you guys will be worrying too much how to work it in and be rushed to a deadline. If EA reads this please give Bioware team as much time as they need. Good luck guys.

Hey maybe the multiplayer aspect could be a text based storytelling roleplay where each person involved writes what they do next
.... actualy, thatd be kinda fun

[Imrahil_]

bEVEsthda wrote...
Well, I like to think of myself as one of the most vitriolic DA2 critics who have managed to escape permaban. And I'm certainly bitter. Very bitter. I see nothing wrong in bashing DA2, or the silly ideas and logic which resulted in the "new direction".

But one would also have to think that Bioware can't be as thick as they sometimes appear to be (or are forced to pretend to be, since they can't bash themselves or their bosses). Ultimately this is a business. And they have to be aware of that DA2 failed bigtime, that the sales were just driven by DA:O's popularity. There should be reasons to believe that Bioware can be able to avoid repeating past mistakes.

It doesn't look good. I agree on that. We tell them we don't want VA. They tell us we will get it and that it's off the table. We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs. They tell us we will get them. We tell them we don't want MP. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want autodialogue. They tell us we will get it. They tell us it will be a mix of the best parts of DA:O and DA2. We ask what "best parts of DA:O" will be included. They only give us silence. We go "- What best parts of DA2!?". They point to all the things we don't want.

Bah, if you'd only recognize your confirmation bias & realize that the backlash against DA2, ME3, & TOR is typical of any Bioware game you'd learn to love them!  [/kidding] 

I agree with you.  People need to realize that we're getting MP in DA3, voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, autodialogue, no race choices, DA2 artstyle, limited companion customization, cutscenes galore, & an Inquisitor fixed protag (gender & face optional, probably, so they've got that going for them).

We may or may not get anime combat, probably no re-used areas, & less waves. Yay?

It's going to be DA2.2.  They've pretty much said as much.  I check in here once a month, probaby a little less I'd guess, & it keeps getting worse.  This time I find we're getting MP.

I don't know why some of you keep fighting the good fight, but honestly, you already lost.  Oh well, we'll always have DA:O, right?

Modifié par Imrahil_, 08 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Imrahil_ wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Well, I like to think of myself as one of the most vitriolic DA2 critics who have managed to escape permaban. And I'm certainly bitter. Very bitter. I see nothing wrong in bashing DA2, or the silly ideas and logic which resulted in the "new direction".

But one would also have to think that Bioware can't be as thick as they sometimes appear to be (or are forced to pretend to be, since they can't bash themselves or their bosses). Ultimately this is a business. And they have to be aware of that DA2 failed bigtime, that the sales were just driven by DA:O's popularity. There should be reasons to believe that Bioware can be able to avoid repeating past mistakes.

It doesn't look good. I agree on that. We tell them we don't want VA. They tell us we will get it and that it's off the table. We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs. They tell us we will get them. We tell them we don't want MP. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want autodialogue. They tell us we will get it. They tell us it will be a mix of the best parts of DA:O and DA2. We ask what "best parts of DA:O" will be included. They only give us silence. We go "- What best parts of DA2!?". They point to all the things we don't want.

Bah, if you'd only recognize your confirmation bias & realize that the backlash against DA2, ME3, & TOR is typical of any Bioware game you'd learn to love them!  [/kidding] 

I agree with you.  People need to realize that we're getting MP in DA3, voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, autodialogue, no race choices, DA2 artstyle, limited companion customization, cutscenes galore, & an Inquisitor fixed protag (gender & face optional, probably, so they've got that going for them).

We may or may not get anime combat, probably no re-used areas, & less waves. Yay?

It's going to be DA2.2.  They've pretty much said as much.  I check in here once a month, probaby a little less I'd guess, & it keeps getting worse.  This time I find we're getting MP.

I don't know why some of you keep fighting the good fight, but honestly, you already lost.  Oh well, we'll always have DA:O, right?

You two, gentlemen, have expressed perfectly how I feel about this third part in-the-works.
And that's why I have little hopes and so much negativity. It's not that we like to be "haters" or that we wake up each morning saying "Beautiful day to bash DA2 on the Bioware forums!". Far from it, really.
But it's a reality that they don't seem to care. And then they'll shield themselves saying that we are just haters, 4channers, or just loud crybabies who feel entitled, pointing to an old article by Neil Gaiman.
And I know, the devs aren't our slaves and they aren't, in any way, forced to do what we want. They can do whatever they want with the game, or whatever their bosses want. If Dragon Age 3 shows up and it doesn't look like an improvement over the second one, then I don't have to buy it. Which is kind of obvious, but sad at the same time, because I really want to give them my money. They are just making it difficult for me to feel confident about dropping another 60 bucks. There's no way in hell I'll pre-order again.

[Lord_Valandil]

BrotherWarth wrote...

I know I'm not speaking for everyone, but if they could refine some of what they tried to accomplish with DA2 by using Origins as influence(derp) then DA3 could be awesome. Faster combat, but not the ridiculous pace of DA2. Branching power trees but with fewer forced paths in said trees. The friendship/rivalry system but with more of an impact than just a stat boost(like an influence on romance)
That said, they do need to completely revert some things from DA2 back to Origins like, IMO, romances(less "click the heart for sex scene" and more character building!), specializations and weapon use(bring back our favorite specializations from Origins and extra weapon options like dual-wielding warriors and longsword-wielding rogues!) and more side quests that make us feel like we're in a fantastical world(like the one to unlock the Juggernaut armor) and no more "I found your crap" "side quests."
I would also love it if they gave us back the silent PC, race selection and origin stories but I know that ain't gonna happen...

That would be wonderful.
More quests like in Bethesda o CD Projekt games. You can tell DA2 was a rushed job when a lot of (if not all) the quests are of the "Go find my crap because I can't be bothered to move my ass and do it myself" or "Go kill this guy/critter and his/its endless waves of baddie friends, plz" type.
A more complex romance. Getting rid of the stupid wheel and the silly symbols. I don't think we're that stupid. "Heart to have sex, olive branch to be a good guy, we're helping you to read less".
The origin stories, race selection and silent PC would be a godsend. And even if it's not a silent PC...at least give us a good story and dialogue, not stuff like "I want to be a dragon" or trying to make us feel sad about a wooden character who died five minutes after we met him/her.
Anyway...like you said, that's not going to happen.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 08 septembre 2012 - 06:20 .

[ElitePinecone]

CitizenThom wrote...

Hmmm... seems to destroy the business model then I imagine. The advantage of DLC is not having the cost of 'printing' discs, covers and containers. If Sony  and Microsoft are charging $$$ for publishers to make DLC available...the business model of DLC isn't much improved over hard copies.

My question does still remains though, why are DLC prices more persistent than hard copy prices? Both have initial costs to overcome, that are eventually paid by initial sales, both have a base cost and base profit per unit... so shouldn't DLC prices start to shrink in order to sell a few more copies after the intial sales start to slow down? Games go from $59.99 to $19.99 after a year or two, DLC on the other hand tends to stay at it's first offering price indefinately.

DLC prices do occasionally fall in sales or the like, but you're right in that they remain way too high for way too long.

Perhaps the difficulty is coordinating the publisher and the platform holders (Microsoft, Sony)? I'd imagine they would need to work out pricing schemes, and it's quite possible the low take-up rate of most DLC (didn't someone once say 5% of base-game sales is a good result?) means nobody bothers after the initial content hype has passed.

The cynical side of me thinks that the fact that DLC is probably an inelastic purchase (players are already invested enough to buy the base game, and some will buy any extra content with little regard to its price) means it's kept at a very high price to scoop up extra revenue long after launch. 

[ElitePinecone]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Here's the danger and the point: We risk creating an environment where DA3 never gets a fair chance.
I for one, think we should try to avoid that.

It's a fair concern, and I'm sure Bioware are thinking a lot about how to massage the message, so to speak. 

Anecdotally there's a lot of enthusiasm for The Next Thing, particularly after the survey information (genuine or otherwise) was 'released'. Certainly there could be antipathy by people still disappointed by DA2 (and I'm waiting until we actually see anything before I lower this skeptical eyebrow), but I'd hope their audience receive the game on its own merits, or even with the Origins comparisons that the marketing team are sure to start pushing any day now.

[c_cat]

I don't really care if there is MP in the next DA game as long as it's totally separate from the singleplayer. Since I would never use it I would prefer if the MP came as day one DLC so it was optional to pay for it as well.

Always online singleplayer and cloud storage however are the reasons I didn't buy Diablo 3 and the reasons I will not buy the next SimCity. I like the ability to mod my games, to play my games whenever I want to play them even if my internet connection is down or EA have server problems.

And I have absolutely no interest in this social aspect EA wants bring to all their games. I'm forced to be social at work and that is enough. I have no facebook account, no twitter account and I certainly have no interest in showing what I do in my games on any internet page.
(Sims as an example used to be a singleplayer sandbox game. No it has a Store forced into your inventory, achievements, the meaningless ability to show whatever yous sims do on your facebook or forum page (and really WHO would care) and giftgiving between players both in game and on forums. Because obviously what every official game forum needs is a place where teenagers can beg strangers for gifts so EA can make more money.)

[Fast Jimmy]

c_cat wrote...

I don't really care if there is MP in the next DA game as long as it's totally separate from the singleplayer. Since I would never use it I would prefer if the MP came as day one DLC so it was optional to pay for it as well.

Always online singleplayer and cloud storage however are the reasons I didn't buy Diablo 3 and the reasons I will not buy the next SimCity. I like the ability to mod my games, to play my games whenever I want to play them even if my internet connection is down or EA have server problems.

And I have absolutely no interest in this social aspect EA wants bring to all their games. I'm forced to be social at work and that is enough. I have no facebook account, no twitter account and I certainly have no interest in showing what I do in my games on any internet page.
(Sims as an example used to be a singleplayer sandbox game. No it has a Store forced into your inventory, achievements, the meaningless ability to show whatever yous sims do on your facebook or forum page (and really WHO would care) and giftgiving between players both in game and on forums. Because obviously what every official game forum needs is a place where teenagers can beg strangers for gifts so EA can make more money.)

I think your thoughts and views are echoed by many, c_cat.

We will have to see what type of MP/online aspect the game will include. I doubt it will be an always-online mode required like Diablo 3, simply because many console players do not have their systems hooked up to the internet, unlike the vast majority of PC players. However, I have my serious doubts that the MP will not affect the SP campaign. After all, the ME team stated at one point that ME3 would not have MP. They then stated that it would have no impact whatsoever on the story, which was not true.

While some people may scoff at the importance of the "Breathe" ending scene in ME3, it was, aside from different colors, the ONLY part of the ending in the ME3 vanilla version that was at all different from the other endings outside of the Red/Blue/Green colors. Some may call that an Easter Egg, but I prefer to call it actually affecting how the game ends.

[astreqwerty]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

astreqwerty wrote...

wow really??? MP in dragon age 3??? wont be buying..not because i have anything against MP rather that history has shown that when MP is involved with games based on a SP experiance SP gets royally screwed..no more blatant **** on my face bioware

Has history shown that? Certainly Bioware's history hasn't. And I don't think gaming history in general has.

Everyone else can speak to their problems with ME3 multiplayer (I didn't buy it, because I disagreed with the design decisions made, which is fine, but it was the first Bioware game that wasn't prepurchased months in advance of its release for me). 

I see NWN spouted to defend this. Look, the original NWN was a toolkit, it was designed for making Single and Multiplayer adventures. The original campaign was almost universally reviled (I know, I was there, I defended it, a bit half heartedly because who didn't have a crush on Aribeth? Am I right?). Anyways, the single player experience as generated by Bioware was not the central goal of that product. Now, when SoU and HotU came out, the quality and experience of the single player experience right out of the box was leaps and bounds above the original. So, NWN did indeed have mulitplayer capabilities. The out of the box single player experience when it was first released was not of a particularly high quality (although higher than DA2 in my opinion). 

Resources and Zots are limited. Unless more resources are added, multiplayer development will ALWAYS reduce time/money/effort in developing single player experience. You can't have to two teams working in isolation and then a day before release plug the code together. In addition, anything that involves competitive play with have effects AFTER the fact in the single player game, and vice-a-versa. Co-op seems to be the best of both worlds for people, and that's fine (I have no interest in it), but what if we have a situation where they develope a specific Co-op campaign alongside the single player, projects run long like they always do, and then they are forced to rush a product out the door with a half-done single player and co-op campaign?

what he said;
 resources are always being allocated to mp and as a result sp suffers the effects of rushing..i personally am not refering to me3s ending rather than to the whole game which in my humble opinion was a prime example of just that (and an atrocious game as a whole,imo)..And from the latest samples of biowares gamecrafting im almost certain that i wont be buying the same half baked ****,again..

Modifié par astreqwerty, 08 septembre 2012 - 12:28 .

[Cimeas]

Multiplayer could be great fun. I don't see why not. Multiplayer battle arena, co-op darkspawn horde mode, some kind of co-op campaign.

[Jerrybnsn]

I read where you might be able to play your Warden in Multiplayer. Oh wait, that was me who wrote that. Well, take that info as a grain of salt then.

[CELL55]

Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

[FedericoV]

BrotherWarth wrote...

astreqwerty wrote...

wow really??? MP in dragon age 3??? wont be buying..not because i have anything against MP rather that history has shown that when MP is involved with games based on a SP experiance SP gets royally screwed..no more blatant **** on my face bioware

Has history shown that? Certainly Bioware's history hasn't. And I don't think gaming history in general has.

Imho the point that fans fails to understand is not MP in itself. If Bioware really believed that MP could improve the ME and DA franchises and honestly said so we could have get it. If there was a HUGE demand of MP from the fans, we could have get it (and honestly there was a consistent demand for MP for ME since the game's a shooter at the end).

The point is that people don't understand the publisher's MANDATE to have online/MP component forced in to each and every game no matter if it helps the game and its development or not, if it improves the game for the end user or not, if it helps the developers build a better game or not.

Adding another layer of complexity on the development process when in DA2 Bioware showed that they faced great difficulties to get even the basic right... well, it's perplexing at best. I remain on the fence about DA3 and there's no point to whine since the important decisions has already been taken and we are just spectators who will judge the end product.

Let's hope MP won't harm the single player game but a little bit of pessimism is absolutely justified.

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 septembre 2012 - 02:18 .

[lil yonce]

I would love to have MP in DA3. Several Co-op MP modes. Building from Baldur's Gate sounds like a great start.

I'd like to see a separate story-based co-op mode, like how Uncharted 2 handles it's Co-op Objective MP mode. It uses short cutscenes, character dialogue and interaction, locations from single-player as maps and expands them or tweaks them, and it really supports using the environment, and items within, for survival, to your advantage, and as obstacles.

I think a Dragon Age "Co-op Objective" mode would work well building around NPCs and companions from the single player campaign. It would be great to see how companions left at camp interact and work together without the influence of the protagonist; Bantering throughout the mission, or being serious for the first time with one another, becoming annoyed, expressing sympathy, or showing fear, or just giving commands to each other. It'd be great to see the writing team build on what's already in the main story.

Each map could have it's own objective, it's own storyline and it's own set of characters that participate with their strengths complementing the level design and enemies.

Uncharted's co-op storylines are simple. Fight through the city to claim the treasure. Fight the soldiers to free the village. Fight to destroy a communication tower. A Dragon Age parallel could work just as simply, and also introduce a layer complexity, and novelty that emphasizes character development and interaction.

With the rumored ten companions, the DA team could really mix-and-match characters, create interesting scenarios and, best of all, more party banter. Using NPCs could add even more alternative, surprise, and enjoyment. A Leliana cameo could turn into so much more if she was involved in a short storyline (non essential to the single-player campaign) built around her, Cassandra and one or two more companions. And even though the player isn't involved as the protagonist, it's a way re-involve the supporting cast, to enjoy companions and NPCs the player may not see much of in the main campaign.

A story driven co-op mode similar to Uncharted's "Siege" that showcases a battle in the Orlesian civil war or a battle between mages and templars would be great. A short cutscene and then the match starts. It doesn't even have to be a battle we see in the main storyline. Maybe it's just one the player heard about. I think it would be a good way to "tie" the SP and MP modes together without tying them together as ME3 tried with EMS.

I'd also like to see optional 4 player co-op for the main storyline. Be allowed to jump into a game like RE5 allows players to do.

Just a few ideas.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 08 septembre 2012 - 10:35 .

[Jerrybnsn]

So anyway,...there's this rumor going around that you can play your Warden in MP. Anyone read of this yet?

[lil yonce]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

So anyway,...there's this rumor going around that you can play your Warden in MP. Anyone read of this yet?

That sounds like a very good idea. Lots of potential! I haven't heard that rumor, but I would enjoy this in a story driven MP mode. It could even be used to hint at the Warden's whereabouts and future involvement in the DA universe. Same with Hawke.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 08 septembre 2012 - 04:38 .

[FieryDove]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

So anyway,...there's this rumor going around that you can play your Warden in MP. Anyone read of this yet?

This can't be true...IF I wanted to play MP in ME3 I would want to play...Shepard. I mean the three games were his/her story defeating whatever...

I am not the least bit interested in playing unknown grunt #1678900. I have many MMO's for that kind of play and with the perk playing my character.

But maybe they will ease up compared to the ME team and let 4 Wardens, 4 DA Next Thing Protag or 4 Hawke's run around smacking stuff. Who knows?

[Renmiri1]

Imrahil_ wrote...


I agree with you.  People need to realize that we're getting MP in DA3, voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, autodialogue, no race choices, DA2 artstyle, limited companion customization, cutscenes galore, & an Inquisitor fixed protag (gender & face optional, probably, so they've got that going for them).

We may or may not get anime combat, probably no re-used areas, & less waves. Yay?

It's going to be DA2.2.  They've pretty much said as much.  I check in here once a month, probaby a little less I'd guess, & it keeps getting worse.  This time I find we're getting MP.

I don't know why some of you keep fighting the good fight, but honestly, you already lost.  Oh well, we'll always have DA:O, right?

Considering I loved DA2, I am very happy with this prediction. Act 3 was rushed, will be really nice to see DA2 creativity, story depth and combat style on a game that has had the proper time for developers to finish it. If DA2 devs had had 6 months more, it would be as widely loved as ME2 was, an improvement on the original.

Ducks behind flameshield 

[LobselVith8]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Oh and DA3 will have multiplayer because EA does not make standalone single player games anymore.

So a fixed protagonist in a railroaded narrative with MP, then?