626 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Valandil]

Renmiri1 wrote...
Considering I loved DA2, I am very happy with this prediction. Act 3 was rushed, will be really nice to see DA2 creativity, story depth and combat style on a game that has had the proper time for developers to finish it. If DA2 devs had had 6 months more, it would be as widely loved as ME2 was, an improvement on the original.

Ducks behind flameshield 

I'm glad you loved it, but I must say that I failed to see such creativity (it was more like an ecologist game, with all that recycling) or "depth"...Hey, just in case, I don't want to argue or to start a fight, if you like it, whatever floats your boat.

[iheartbob]

I really don't understand all the backlash.

If we're going off the most recent example of Bioware MP in SP campaigns (ME3), then the one component that people complained about (the MP directly interfering with the final outcome of your SP campaign) was addressed and solved with the Extended Cut DLC. Based on that example, I would think Bioware has the foresight to know that if they include a MP component, they just need to make sure it does not interfere with the single player campaign.

I went into ME3 not expecting to like MP at all and ended up being pleasantly surprised. Hopefully the same will happen with DAIII as well.

[Icesong]

I'd hope DA3's MP actually let you RP together. Weird, I know, having the MP be related to RPing in an RPG. But I'm fairly hopeful.

iheartbob wrote...
If we're going off the most recent example of Bioware MP in SP campaigns (ME3), then the one component that people complained about (the MP directly interfering with the final outcome of your SP campaign) was addressed and solved with the Extended Cut DLC. Based on that example, I would think Bioware has the foresight to know that if they include a MP component, they just need to make sure it does not interfere with the single player campaign.
 

They already had that foresight going into ME3. That they were wrong about MP not being needed was most of what drove the complaining. That they fixed it months later is hardly a credit to them.

[Estelindis]

I really don't see the possibility of multiplayer in DA3 as being automatically bad. Personally, I thought that ME3 multiplayer was brilliant and it didn't interfere with the single player experience (apart from the annoying 50% readiness multiplier). If DA3 has ME3-standard multiplayer and typically good Bioware writing, yet lacks an ending as awful as ME3's was (in my opinion), I'll be more than pleased.

[Provi-dance]

Imrahil_ wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...
Well, I like to think of myself as one of the most vitriolic DA2 critics who have managed to escape permaban. And I'm certainly bitter. Very bitter. I see nothing wrong in bashing DA2, or the silly ideas and logic which resulted in the "new direction".

But one would also have to think that Bioware can't be as thick as they sometimes appear to be (or are forced to pretend to be, since they can't bash themselves or their bosses). Ultimately this is a business. And they have to be aware of that DA2 failed bigtime, that the sales were just driven by DA:O's popularity. There should be reasons to believe that Bioware can be able to avoid repeating past mistakes.

It doesn't look good. I agree on that. We tell them we don't want VA. They tell us we will get it and that it's off the table. We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs. They tell us we will get them. We tell them we don't want MP. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want autodialogue. They tell us we will get it. They tell us it will be a mix of the best parts of DA:O and DA2. We ask what "best parts of DA:O" will be included. They only give us silence. We go "- What best parts of DA2!?". They point to all the things we don't want.

Bah, if you'd only recognize your confirmation bias & realize that the backlash against DA2, ME3, & TOR is typical of any Bioware game you'd learn to love them!  [/kidding] 

I agree with you.  People need to realize that we're getting MP in DA3, voiced protagonist, dialogue wheel, autodialogue, no race choices, DA2 artstyle, limited companion customization, cutscenes galore, & an Inquisitor fixed protag (gender & face optional, probably, so they've got that going for them).

We may or may not get anime combat, probably no re-used areas, & less waves. Yay?

It's going to be DA2.2.  They've pretty much said as much.  I check in here once a month, probaby a little less I'd guess, & it keeps getting worse.  This time I find we're getting MP.

I don't know why some of you keep fighting the good fight, but honestly, you already lost.  Oh well, we'll always have DA:O, right?

DG sayd DA2 did jus' fein! Y U no trust him? U jus' loud an' in Daniel an' negativ.

Peoples who liekd DA2 are quiet an' respectful. They dont' post on da internetz.

[ladyaya06]

If Bioware wants to put in a MP feature into DA3 that's fine with me. HOWEVER I do mind if they make it to where it is vital to participate in the MP to do well in the SP campaign. If you can get some bonuses that help you out in SP fine but don't make it a 'have to' deal. Although I will say I'm wary of games that Bioware will put out in general after the horrible fail of ME3's ending.

[Get Magna Carter]

I don't care as long as I can enjoy single-player and ignore multiplayer
If multiplayer negatively impacts the development or outcome of singleplayer then i object

[JerZey CJ]

David Gaider wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...
You're still in denial about people hating Dragon Age 2? If you only listen to what the people on your friends list think about your game, you may not be seeing the consensus here.

I'm not in denial about not everyone liking DA2.

I certainly do agree that the people who don't like it are the loudest, but that's hardly unexpected given human nature.

Did you ever think that they're the loudest because they're the MAJORITY?

[TheJediSaint]

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...
You're still in denial about people hating Dragon Age 2? If you only listen to what the people on your friends list think about your game, you may not be seeing the consensus here.

I'm not in denial about not everyone liking DA2.

I certainly do agree that the people who don't like it are the loudest, but that's hardly unexpected given human nature.

Did you ever think that they're the loudest because they're the MAJORITY?

And you, of course, have the statistics to back up that claim?

[RosaAquafire]

I don't think they are. People like me who are diehard DA2 fans, who see that the game had flaws but love the finished product way more than DA:O's, and would love to get something like DA2 with DA:O's level of effort and branching storylines -- we're just ****ing tired of arguing about it. The hatred is so loud, so passionate, so full of vitriol, and so completely lacking in respect for anyone who could possibly disagree with them ... ****, why bother? It's so completely not worth the effort.

When you love something and half the internet is screaming how much they hated it, it's a huge mellow harsher and eventually you just get off the internet. Nothing you say is going to convince me that I secretly hate DA2 or invalidate the fun I've had with it, but it WILL bum me the hell out and nobody likes getting insulted for their opinions. I know that Bioware knows people like me are out there, and are not a minority, that we equal at least half of DA2's playerbase, and I just don't want to engage in the circle of hate. It's poisonous, it makes me feel bad, and so I shut my mouth and just talk about DA2 with my friends -- every single one of which, by the way, feels the same way about it as I did.

Just because we got tired of listening to you yell doesn't mean we don't exist. I'm glad I don't have to keep wading into the toxic atmosphere to remind Bioware that I'm here.

[jillabender]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I don't think they are. People like me who are diehard DA2 fans, who see that the game had flaws but love the finished product way more than DA:O's, and would love to get something like DA2 with DA:O's level of effort and branching storylines -- we're just ****ing tired of arguing about it. The hatred is so loud, so passionate, so full of vitriol, and so completely lacking in respect for anyone who could possibly disagree with them ... ****, why bother? It's so completely not worth the effort.

When you love something and half the internet is screaming how much they hated it, it's a huge mellow harsher and eventually you just get off the internet. Nothing you say is going to convince me that I secretly hate DA2 or invalidate the fun I've had with it, but it WILL bum me the hell out and nobody likes getting insulted for their opinions. I know that Bioware knows people like me are out there, and are not a minority, that we equal at least half of DA2's playerbase, and I just don't want to engage in the circle of hate. It's poisonous, it makes me feel bad, and so I shut my mouth and just talk about DA2 with my friends -- every single one of which, by the way, feels the same way about it as I did.

Just because we got tired of listening to you yell doesn't mean we don't exist. I'm glad I don't have to keep wading into the toxic atmosphere to remind Bioware that I'm here.

I don't blame you for being frustrated. I prefer DA:O to DA2, but when I see people being needlessly rude and insulting to those who prefer DA2, it really rubs me the wrong way.

Personally, I don't think it's really productive to argue about the number of people who preferred each game. Those arguments rarely improve anyone's understanding of which elements of each game worked well and which didn't – all they seem to accomplish is to annoy people by making them feel as though other fans are trying to invalidate their feelings and preferences. So, I generally try to avoid going there.

Just speaking for myself, I have mixed feelings about DA2. I liked some things, like the more exciting combat animations and the fact that warriors and rogues had a greater variety of abilities to choose from, and I thought that the premise of the Mage/Templar conflict had a lot of potential. But unfortunately, some other things got in the way of my enjoyment.

Modifié par jillabender, 09 septembre 2012 - 12:13 .

[RosaAquafire]

bEVEsthda wrote...

It doesn't look good. I agree on that. We tell them we don't want VA. They tell us we will get it and that it's off the table. We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs. They tell us we will get them. We tell them we don't want MP. They tell us we will get it. We tell them we don't want autodialogue. They tell us we will get it. They tell us it will be a mix of the best parts of DA:O and DA2. We ask what "best parts of DA:O" will be included. They only give us silence. We go "- What best parts of DA2!?". They point to all the things we don't want.

And also, I would just like to wade back into the venom for a moment to discuss the word "we."

We tell them we don't want VA.

I see the advantages of both systems and would be happy with either.

We tell them we don't want dialogue wheel.

I see no problem with the wheel as a template if it's improved, which Bioware apparently intends to do.

We tell them we don't want "iconic" NPCs.

I am not a cosplayer and in fact I think that cosplay is a little bit dumb, but I would still go to the mat for iconic NPCs. I want this feature to come back badly, especially with the flexibility that BW has implied we'll get with it. Iconic looks are one of the best things about DA2. No faceless army of brown and grey syndrome here.

We tell them we don't want MP.

I'd actually love MP, so long as it doesn't affect the quality of the SP campaign. Especially if it's co-op. My girlfriends and I all play DA:O/2 on voice chat as it is, because we love discussing what's going on in the game. Co-op would be pro.

We tell them we don't want autodialogue.

Am I crazy or have they specified that they're doing limited autodialogue, no more than DA2's, which I found was with very few exceptions extremely forgiving.



I want DA2's unique, colourful artstyle to come back, no return to DA:O's earth tones generic fantasy 101. I want "anime" style combat, because it was fun, fast, responsive, visceral, and rewarding. I don't really care either way about reused areas, but I'm glad they're going away.

In fact, the one complaint about DA2 I always agree with is that waves are the devil. And they're getting rid of that, too, soooo ...

I am not a "console kiddie," I prefer the PC version when available. I am not under 25 years old, I am an adult who played Baldur's Gate 1 in middle school. I am not part of the COD crowd, I can't stand first person shooters. I am not part of the twitch generation -- hell, I don't even watch television. All books for me.

And if I were any of those things? That still wouldn't invalidate my opinion.

"We" is not a monolith.

[Bekkael]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BioWare died for me as a company when they included multiplayer in Baldur's Gate. Both of them.

Exactly. And then they died for me again in Neverwinter Knights.

These are excellent points.

I'm indifferent to whether or not MP is part of the next DA title. If they choose to include it, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. If not, then it's no different than DA:O or DA2. As far as I'm concerned, it's win/win.

[Cyne]

I don't mind if there's multiplayer in DA3 as long as it doesn't detract from single player. me 3 managed to do it fine excluding the ending. I would love to see the care and attention to detail shown in guild wars 2.

[jillabender]

RosaAquaFire wrote…

I want DA2's unique, colourful artstyle to come back, no return to DA:O's earth tones generic fantasy 101. I want "anime" style combat, because it was fun, fast, responsive, visceral, and rewarding. I don't really care either way about reused areas, but I'm glad they're going away.

Personally, the re-used areas in DA2 really took away from the atmosphere of the game world for me – I'm also glad BioWare are getting rid of that.

I liked the fact that the designs for armour and clothing in DA2 were more colourful and varied than in Origins, but the overall look of the game felt a bit all-over-the-place to me. For example, the inventory, character and skills screens looked out-of-place in a fantasy game – they looked to me like they belonged in a sci-fi game like Mass Effect.

I also found that even areas in DA2 that weren't recycled sometimes felt lacking in personality. Overall, environments like the Dalish camp in DA2 sometimes felt more like backdrops to me, rather than environments that people actually lived in. In DA:O, even the most lowly peasant's home actually had the kinds of items one would expect to realistically find – and that added atmosphere. Most of the environments in DA2, unfortunately, lacked the same kind of attention to detail.

Modifié par jillabender, 09 septembre 2012 - 12:09 .

[Lord_Valandil]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I don't think they are. People like me who are diehard DA2 fans, who see that the game had flaws but love the finished product way more than DA:O's, and would love to get something like DA2 with DA:O's level of effort and branching storylines -- we're just ****ing tired of arguing about it. The hatred is so loud, so passionate, so full of vitriol, and so completely lacking in respect for anyone who could possibly disagree with them ... ****, why bother? It's so completely not worth the effort.

When you love something and half the internet is screaming how much they hated it, it's a huge mellow harsher and eventually you just get off the internet. Nothing you say is going to convince me that I secretly hate DA2 or invalidate the fun I've had with it, but it WILL bum me the hell out and nobody likes getting insulted for their opinions. I know that Bioware knows people like me are out there, and are not a minority, that we equal at least half of DA2's playerbase, and I just don't want to engage in the circle of hate. It's poisonous, it makes me feel bad, and so I shut my mouth and just talk about DA2 with my friends -- every single one of which, by the way, feels the same way about it as I did.

Just because we got tired of listening to you yell doesn't mean we don't exist. I'm glad I don't have to keep wading into the toxic atmosphere to remind Bioware that I'm here.

I understand the feeling.
I love some movies that are considered 'bad', like...Alien vs Predator or Sucker Punch. Even the Resident Evil movies. And sometimes I get attacked because apparently "I cannot appreciate good cinema".
But that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'll admit that sometimes I'm surprised when I read that people love the story or the gameplay of DA2, I can respect it, but i can't understand it. No, I don't think they're idiots, I just wonder what do they see, if they're happy to ignore the lack of importance of their choices, and the ret-cons and plot holes in the story, or if they don't care about the recycled areas, wave-based combat, etc. in the same way I can ignore the silly script of AVP or enjoy the special-effects-driven story of Sucker Punch.
When someone says that DA2 is a masterpiece, then honestly I feel baffled, because I would compare that to me saying that "Season of the Witch" (baaad movie, but I liked it) deserves an Oscar for best picture.
So, I don't side with those who like to insult other players or the devs, but I can't hide my bitterness about the game itself. Dismissing the players with genuine complaints as "loud whiners" is just as bad as saying that those who like the game don't know any better (I'm not saying you do such a thing, but there are some who do).
I think it's normal that people is angered or feel wary about DA3, because BW seems to follow the DA2 road instead of returning to Origins-style. I'm not against "progress", but I think Bioware shot themselves in the foot. They willingly (or pushed by their corporate overlords, who knows?) polarized the fanbase, and while I don't approve the insults or personal attacks or threats towards them, and I understand that they must be tired, I think they brought this situation upon themselves. In a way, they totally deserve the negative backlash (of course 'm not referring to the insults on the forum or childish reactions on Metacritic, but to the lost faith and bitterness and lack of support). It's up to them to recover the trust of those people. And of course, if they can't, or don't care, then people should move on. At least, they've got new fans who like the new style, and the franchise can stay alive, even if it's not as succesful as Origins.
But that's just my opinion.

[Volus Warlord]

Cyne wrote...

I don't mind if there's multiplayer in DA3 as long as it doesn't detract from single player. me 3 managed to do it fine excluding the ending. I would love to see the care and attention to detail shown in guild wars 2.

Uh.. this may have been a fluke of sorts.

EA originally intended to co-release two Mass Effect Games: One our Bioware's traditional single player that we know and love, the other a Call of Effect Multiplayer. So the single player and multiplayer were developed in large part seperately. But due to who knows what they decided to release one game as one game, and they were released in the same cover.

This may not be the case with DA3. If the multiplayer is developed by the same studio group as the singleplayer, it will effectively take away from singleplayer UNLESS they allocate additional time for development which will not happen (I doubt we will see something that could be called "polished" on either front).

And if the DA3 multiplayer is the ME3 multiplayer with staffs instead of guns... well what the hell.

[Bekkael]

Volus Warlord wrote...And if the DA3 multiplayer is the ME3 multiplayer with staffs instead of guns... well what the hell.

LOL! I'm imagining endless hordes of darkspawn that we fight on maps of the Chantry or Deep Roads, all while trying to recover important, secret tomes written by Brother Genitivi.

[Sylvianus]

I am disappointed bsn... So there are still people surprised... It's been months it was sure there would be multiplayer in DA3, especially if M3 multiplayer was well received. Many said so. At least Davig Gaider broke Bioware's ambiguity ( even if it was already clear if you read between the lines ) and it is clear now to the world. Sometimes it feels good.

And basically this :

iheartbob wrote...

I really don't understand all the backlash.Ifwe're going off the most recent example of Bioware MP in SP campaigns (ME3), then the one component that people complained about (the MP directly interfering with the final outcome of your SP campaign) was addressed and solved with the Extended Cut DLC. Based on that example, I would think Bioware has the foresight to know that if they include a MPcomponent, they just need to make sure it  does not interfere with the single player campaign.

I don't think we need to worry about this issue any more.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:07 .

[Renmiri1]

Bekkael wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...And if the DA3 multiplayer is the ME3 multiplayer with staffs instead of guns... well what the hell.

LOL! I'm imagining endless hordes of darkspawn that we fight on maps of the Chantry or Deep Roads, all while trying to recover important, secret tomes written by Brother Genitivi.

A small childlike robot tells Hawke and the Warden to merge to make "Templages" a synthesis of mages and Templars that will be imortal and all goodie goodie but so very creepy. Or to jump on the deep roads pit and merge with darkspawn, to make all darkspawn nice and helpful but Warden and Hawke are now an Archdemon. Or you shoot a Lyrium pillar and the Fade ceases to exist, as do Darkspawn and magic, but you see Warden and Hawke styrring - you don't know if it is their last gasp before they die. Finally you can destroy the little brat and everyone in Thedas dies. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 09 septembre 2012 - 01:22 .

[Guilebrush]

How much "provincial readiness" will I need to unlock the "blue" ending in DA3?

That aside, as long as the MP experience does not negatively interfere with the single player "spirit" of the game, nor does it negatively impact developer resources (say, forcing them to reuse maps ad nauseum to hit a target release window) there really shouldn't be an issue with inserting MP in a DA game.

Hell if they can actually implement a MP system similar to how Saints Row the Third did its MP then sign me up.

[Eterna]

You guys are ridiculous.

[TopcatPlayer]

The fact that EA is making Dead Space and Dragon Age franchises, both very much single player experiences where you're the hero everyone looks to to fix the problems ( plus DS is scary becaus you're alone), just shows their eternal lack of understanding and mismanagement of their franchises.

Bioware is stuck with the mess of not repeating the problems of DA2 (as much as EA will let them) and at the same time figuring out how in the hell to work with what the higher ups are telling them they HAVE to implement. They need 2 things from us, support and suggestions. MP is an inevitability unfortunately, let's make the most of it and be constructive.

http://social.biowar...3846/5#10684541

[RosaAquafire]

BrotherWarth wrote...

I think the sales figures back him up...

This is outright untrue because only people who played DA2 can have a negative opinion on DA2. Poor sales doesn't mean something had a universally negative reception, it means that for one reason or another, people didn't buy it.

Negative word of mouth is always more powerful than positive. The simple fact is that DA2 was an extremely polarizing game, for better or for worse, and one really loud angry review is worth 2 gushers. And somewhere along the way, DA2 became sort of a memorial to hate. I've seen people who've never played DA2 joining in ragging on it. It's just something that's fun to hate despite how little you actually know about it, like many, many extremely polarizing things before it. Hell, I've never read Twilight and I go on about how much it sucks all the time.

I really liked DA2. I tell someone to buy it. But you hated it, so you tell that same person not to buy it. Well, if that person didn't buy it in the first week, they probably didn't really want to drop the money on it anyway, so being told "nah you didn't miss out it blew" is the opinion they're going to believe over "no really it was awesome!" Because it validates their choice not to buy, saves them 20 bucks, and doesn't set them up for possible disappointments.

I'm not saying that it's untrue that people didn't like Dragon Age 2. Obviously, they did, and the ones who did dislike it found their compaints to completely override the positive aspects of the experience, to the point where they'll deny any positivity at all. And that's fine, that's your opinion and your experience and nobody can take it away from you or say that it's invalid. Your experience is your experience. But people who HAD NO EXPERIENCE cannot have an opinion, and therefor, saying that sales figures are an objective measurement of DA2's majority opinion is just blithely incorrect. It's a measurement of bad press, no more, no less, and a negative hate spiral like that that surrounded DA2 is a bad press nightmare.

Modifié par RosaAquafire, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:22 .